Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:01 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2004/6/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:30518 Activity:very high
6/1     hmm, the thread got deleted before I could admit I was wrong.
        Japan *did* offer to "surrender" before the dropping of the bombs.
        On the condition that they maintain sovereignty.  The eventual
        surrender, was, though, still conditioned on the continued titular
        reign of the emperor.  -phuqm
        \_ Once the bombs fell, and Stalin decided he wanted a piece of the
           pie, Japan just surrendered.  The Emperor was kept because the
           Americans thought keeping him would ease the occupation. -- ilyas
           \_ I agree that the Americans thought it may be advantageous to
              keep him, that doesn't change the fact that it was a requested
              and accepted condition. -phuqm
              \_ http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/japsurr.html  Search for
                 'unconditional'. -- ilyas
                        \_ I may possibly be unduly stretching the idea of
                        "conditional", but (see the other link) it does
                         still appear to me that they asked for it, and if
                         they did, and we implicitely accepted this
                         condition (even if we would have allowed it
                         anyway), then it is conditional regardless of how
                         many times the surrender document signed by some
                         general says "unconditional".
                         The roads are called "highways" in the legal code
                         However if you say that it is legal for you to
                         ride your bicycle on the highways, I will still
                         argue with you. -phuqm
              \_ It was not requested.  The idea of surrender was so out there
                 for most members of the public (although not for several
                 of the Jap cabinet, like PM Suzuki)--you have to remember
                 that the Emperor's voice had not even been heard in public
                 for years before a recording of his reading the surrender
                 was played on Japanese radio.  It barely occurred to anyone
                 that the Emperor might not be around at some point.
                 MacArthur saw it as a wise move to use some parts of the
                 Japanese authority structure to ease occupation.  -John
            \_ This is untrue.  The japanese were beseeching the Russians
               to change sides until the last days of the war.  The Japanese
               Imperial Army was almost completely intact in Indochina with
               several army groups.
        \_ phuqm, please post a link or reference for your belif.  I have
           never read anything that suggested the Japanese unconditional
           surrender was really conditioned on the continuation of the
           Emperor, although I have read the opposite several times.
           Link?  -jrleek
        \_ This is untrue.  The japanese were beseeching the Russians
           to change sides until the last days of the war.  The Japanese
           Imperial Army was almost completely intact in Indochina with
           several army groups.
               \_ This is from your link: "...the Emperor must be
                  left on the Imperial Throne. The Allies replied
                  that the Emperor would be subject to the Allied
                  Occupation Commander."  Now, i'm well aware that
                  it was called an "unconditional surrender" (and
                  was before i typed the above), but the above is
                  a CONDITION that that was requested and accepted.
                  The fact that he was subject to the Allied Command
                  is irrelevant to my point accept that it
                  ACKNOWLEDGES the fact that the position WILL
                  continue to exist (the condition).
                 --Having read Ilyas' link, though, i'd have to say
                   that my postion is weaker than that article makes
                   out, the only support being an explicit reference
                   to "The authority of the Emperor" (which again is
                   assumed in the legal document, as it is being
                   put down).  -phuqm
                   \_ Really, the problem is that this isn't a reasonable
                      debate.  Go read any comprehensive history of the
                      Japanese Occupation.  It's very clear the MacAurthur
                      had the power to remove the emperor, he just
                      descided not to.  The effect was similar though, the
                      emperor was demoted from divine to amusing
                      tradition.  Hence the nearly completely secular
                      Japan we have today. -jrleek
                        \_ if they removed the Emperor the Japanese would
                           have fought to the very last man, and the entire
                           country would have been a giant graveyard.  My great-
                           grandmother was trained with all her fellow villagers
                           with bamboo spears to fight the American invaders,
                           because they were sure the Americans were going to
                           come into the country raping and pillaging.  -brain
                                \_ uh, are you a mix? you sure don't look
                                   like a Nip.          -pro atomic bomb man
                           \_ I'm not exactly sure about how it would have
                              come about, but I think any removal would
                              have been well after the surrender.  That
                              would make it seem a bit late for the bamboo
                              spears.  Especially since the Emperor was
                              responsible for the surrender.  That site
                              mentions that there was an attempted coup to
                              keep fighting, but I think the regular
                              people would have gone with the emperor.
                              That is, no bamboo spears.  Plus, the
                              Americans came bearing food... -jrleek
                        \_ people have the "power" to break many
                           agreements they make, or laws enacted.  That
                           has little relevance to this arg. -phuqm
                           \_ So, basically you believe there was some
                              kind of secret deal made with Emperor that
                              has been kept so secret for the last 60
                              years you're the only one who knows about
                              it?  In that case, I guess you're right. I
                              can't argue with that. -jrleek
                      \_ wasn't emperor just an amusing figure head
                         through long periods of japan's history?
                         wasn't shogun the guy with real power?  even
                         during ww2, emperor only has limited power,
                         right?
                         \_ Somewhat correct.  Even when the Emperor had no
                            actual power (under the Tokugawa Shogunate), he
                            was respected as the divine son of Heaven. The
                            rallying cry of the Meiji Restoration (which
                            removed the Shogunate from power) was the renewed
                            respect for the authority of the Emperor. After
                            the Meiji Restoration, the Emperor was perceived
                            as the beloved father-figure and leader of all
                            Japan, even though the actual running of the war
                            was done by Tojo and his upper level circle of
                            officers.  The repudiation of the policies of that
                            inner circle is what allows the Emperor to both
                            admit culpability (and mortality) while still
                            remaining Emperor.
                         \_ That's what the emperor wanted the world to believe
                            when he surrendered.
                            \_ the ww2 emperor does have some power, more
                               so than the emperors under say tokugawa
                               shogunate, but even his power is rather
                               limited.
                            \_ the emperor is an important figurehead- he
                                is directly decended from gods.  To maintain a
                                valid claim to power, you have to have the
                                emperor still alive.  What the Meiji Restoration
                                was about was the emperor siezing back his
                                power from the shogun, with the backing of some
                                of the larger houses and the merchants who
                                would directly benefit from the new reforms
                                he hadin mind.          -brain
2004/6/1 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:30519 Activity:nil
6/2     You've got just over an hour to be patriotic then it's back to hating
        America in the morning.  Thank you.  Good night.
        \_ Actually Memorial day is about those who have died fighting in
           wars-- justified or not--waged by our country.  Patriotism has
           nothing to do with it.
           \_ sick bastard, you celebrate warring and not what the
           soldiers fought for? many vets are upset that they feel
           everything they died for in wwII is going to waste on scum
           like you
        \_ God bless the WW2 Veterans for fighting to preserve Democracy,
           to save the Jews, and to create wonderful games like Battlefield
           1942, Medal of Honor, and other great 3D shooter games.
2004/6/1 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:30520 Activity:nil
6/1     Mozilla firefox: Mozilla has the option to make animated gifs not
        animated.  I can't see the same option in Mozilla's Firefox.  Is it
        hidden somewhere?  I like using it except for that one thing.  The
        web is too animated.  Thanks!
        \_ Try the URL about:config and see if it has the setting there...
           \_ image.animation_mode -> none was what I was looking for.  Thanks!
2004/6/1 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:30521 Activity:high
6/1     Energy from the gulf stream: http://www.floridahydro.com/Technology.htm
        \_ So, it doesn't get all gunked up over time?
           \_ it probably would - this would be a scaleability issue.
           \_ It would depend on the surface coating and rotation speed.
2004/6/1 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:30522 Activity:high
6/1     Clear Channel really is the Great Satan.  Hard to summarize, but
        basically they're shutting down a perfectly good company making
        a perfectly great product (live CDs of the concert you just saw,
        purchased at a kiosk right after the show) by abusing the US
        Patent Office.  Go go invisible hand!
        http://csua.org/u/7je (rollingstone.com link)
        \_ obWDYHA?
        \_ Save Howie!!!
        \_ "As soon as I came out against Bush, that's when my rights to
           free speech were taken away. It had nothing to do with
           indecency," Howard Stern said on March 19, 2004.
           \_ Um, that's nice'n'all, but what does that have to do with
              the DiscLive patent issue?
              \_ Nothing, but it is more evidence that Clear Channel is
                 the Great Satan.
        \_ What idiotic thing does the patent cover?
           \_ The patent is here: http://csua.org/u/7jg (patent office link)
              From what I can tell from perusing it, the patent appears to
              be on any process that does the following:
              1) Record audio digitally
              2) Manually divide stream into "tracks" as it is streamed in
              3) When finished, send the tracks to multiple CD burners.
2004/6/1-2 [Recreation/Dating, Health/Women] UID:30523 Activity:very high
6/1     100 most naturally beautiful women of all time:
        http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/31/1085855500521.html
        \_ why "naturally"?  Is there unnatural beauty?
        \_ Liv Tyler #2? something is whack
           \_ And Kate Moss at #13.  sigh..
           \_ And Alicia Silverstone on the list at all!?
        \_ Of all the token Asians to include, Lucy Liu?!
           \_ Well, she is one Asian that doesn't need photoshopping.
              \_ Because that wouldn't help?
                 \_ Um, the list was about _naturally beautiful_ wome...oh wait.
                    Never mind.  This is soda.  None of you have ever actually
                    _seen_ a woman in the flesh.
                    \_ Not a naturally beautiful one, anyway.
                    \_ Lucy Liu looks like naturally beautiful man.  -tom
                    \_ Aaron looks like naturally beautiful man.  -tom
                       \_ So when was the last time you were with a beautiful
                          woman tom?  Prostitutes don't count...
                          \_ The fact that you think prostitutes are natually
                             beautiful says a lot.  -tom
                             \_ You should talk with the sodans who visit
                                .jp's fabulous "soapland".
                             \_ WHIFFFFFFF!!!
                             \_ I'd pay $50 to get you a prostitute, naturally
                                beautiful or not, just so you'd grow up and
                                mellow.  Or at least  just stfu for 5 minutes
                                other than cries of, "what are those bumps on
                                your chest?!  is it contagious!?  and why don't
                                you have a peepee?!  aaacccckkkk!"
                                \_ thank you, NERFAMC.
                       \_ I always thought she looked like a snake
                 \_ this is the sad state of american media...
                      beauty:popular::lucy liu:william hung
                        - what a cute couple!!!!!!
        \_ I hate these fucking titles. So fucking arrogant. Of all time? Give
           me a fucking break. More like for the past 50 years and US only.
           The world != Hollywood
           \_ you did see that it was an Australian site, right?
              \_ My god, you're right!  The world _does_ = Hollywood!
        \_ Dude, australians are nothing more than extremely stupid brits with
           suntans.-lior
2004/6/1-2 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:30524 Activity:low
6/1     Argh!  I accidently hit double-bucky-kill-XEmacs.  Is there some
        magical incantation to make it open up the 20-some-odd files I was
        editing?  (I don't need to recover lost data).
        \_ How about this? Find the last .saves-xxxxx file in your home dir,
           run "grep -v # ~/.saves-xxxxx", then somehow pass the resulting
           lines as arguments to the elisp function (find-file ......).
           \- no but you can plan for the future. there are a few packages to
              save your emacs state. look around the elisp archive or the
              emacs sources newsgroup or the emaccs wiki. --psb
2004/6/1 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30525 Activity:high
6/1     Christopher Hitchens on CSPAN - ardent defender of Iraq
        war.  Admits he's no longer a socialist.
        rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/wj060104_hitchens.rm
        \_ What do you get when you combine the world saving idiocy
           of the left with violent tendencies of the right?
           \_ the biggest killers of the 20th century were all
              leftists.
              \_ Hitler is leftist?  Uh, yeah.
                 \_ NAZI = Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei
                    Nationl Social German Workers Party.  His political
                    platform was socialist.  He was considered 'rightist'
                    by other Communists because he did not believe a
                    Communist Revolution was necessary to implement
                    socialism / communism.
                    \_ Oh BS. You are going to tell us next Robespierre was
                       a modern progenitor of the Republican Party
                       because he called himself a Republican.
                       Did Hitler believe in giving ownership of the
                       means of production to the workers? No.
                       Doh! I have just been trolled...
                       \_ Then please dispute this:
                          A Little Secret About the Nazis
                          http://russp.org/nazis.htm
                          \_ How can I hope to dispute with a man who brings up
                             universal free education as proof of evil?
                             \_ The article addresses the Nazi's political
                                ideology - factually refute it or don't
                                waste my time.
              \_ The capitalists have starved to death far
                 more people than the communists, but since
                 no one person is in charge, the blame is
                 diffuse. How many have died because there
                 no profit to be made in keeping them alive?
                             \_ this is your reply - capitalism is
                                evil?  Spoken like a true red-diaper
                                baby.  Move to North Korea twit.
                                \_ I notice you didn't answer the question.
                                   \_ Because it is a stupid question.
                                      Where/ who are you talking about?
                                      \_ I answered this already, but you
                                         wrote over my changes. See below
                                         for most of it.
                 \_ What is this supposed to mean?  This seems to be all
                    accusation and no substance.  Are you claiming African
                    famine is all the fault of capitalists, or what?
                    \_ Since the European colonialists set the conditions
                       in place for the famines and then did nothing once
                       they occurred, even though they clearly had the
                       power to stop them, yes, I believe they are the
                       ones primarily responsible. If you are going to
                       (quite rightly, I feel) pin 1920s famine on Stalins
                       collectivization of the Kulaks, you should lay blame
                       on the head of the Western European colonialists
                       where it properly lies as well.
              \_ When you get into real extremes, the difference between
                 "right" and "left" is pretty much academic.  Tyranny is
                 tyranny.
                 \- it is commonly claimed that what is important is structure
                    [in this case extremeism] and ideology more or less dis-
                    solves. in other words fascism and communism end up looking
                    pretty similar as totalitaian systems. while this is partly
                    true, it's not true across the board. see e.g. "anatomy
                    of fascism" by r. paxton. you can seach motd archive for
                    more on this well trop topic. --psb
2004/6/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:30526 Activity:nil
6/1     Heya Windows experts, I have a Windows 2000 box that I'd like
        all is't ports to be closed. I do not need it to be listening for
        any connections, and it's on an open WiFi network. Is there
        a way (whithout buying windows firewall software) to close
        all the ports on the Windows 2000 computer?
        \_ How about free firewall software like ZoneAlarm?  -John
           \_ Thanks, I didn't know that software was free.
              (Too bad Windows doesn't have an option to
                close all ports! ) --op
                \_ You'll get a good start on it by going through your
                   services (admin tools->services) and turning off
                   everything unnecessary.  On windows, the problem
                   is that a lot of different, potentially vulnerable
                   shit uses the rpc/dcom ports, so it's not the actual
                   udp/tcp ports themselves causing trouble.  -John
              \_ or try Kerio Personal Firewall 2.5.
2004/6/1 [Recreation/Pets] UID:30527 Activity:high
6/1     Why are so many CSUAers *really* into their cats?
        \_ ob-substitute-for-pussy?
        \_ They are?  Examples please?
        \_ Kittens: Dang They're Cute!
        \_ What kind of "into"?  Physically?
        \_ Mod +5 Troll!  You win!
        \_ They are tasty with barbeque sauce.
2004/6/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30528 Activity:high
6/1     "CNN - Government lawyers told the Supreme Court on Wednesday that the
        president has the legal authority to detain and interrogate suspected
        terrorists indefinitely without charging them regardless of whether
        they are arrested overseas or in the United States."
        Is this one easy or what?  This should be a unanimous ruling.  And if
        you have to ask, yes, unanimous AGAINST the power.  Otherwise we might
        as well start calling him King George II of the United States of
        America.  We even have Scalia saying that the president's commander in
        chief status "doesn't mean that he has power to do whatever it takes
        to win the war."
        \_ I thought he already is. If he wants to do something, just utter the
           "terrorist" word and no one will say otherwise. It's the magic word
           to get things done, like communism.
           \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
              \_ WHY DO YOU HATE WHITE PEOPLE?
              \_ Because there's nothing to like about it!
                 \_ When are you leaving and for where?
        \_ You want to capture the TERRORIST or not!!
        \_ TERRORIST have no rights!
        \_ You sound suspiciously like a terrorist to me.
        \_ Why do you hate TERRORISM?
           \_ What's that? Terror-ism? Terrorgasm? Bush only uses "Terror".
              We are at war with an emotion.
              \_ Yes, Jeff.
        \_ Bush has the supreme court in his back pocket. He'll get
           what he wants.
           \_ I'm going to say this will be unanimous, and that this is the
              case the conservative justices will point to to show that
              they're not in Bush's back pocket.
              \_ I'll say 7-2. Scalia will write a convoluted dissent and
                 Thomas will say "me too."
                 \_ Why do you hate black people?  How long have you hated
                    black people?
                    \_ Clarence Thomas is black?  I thought the NAACP
                       revoked his membership.
                       \_ It's not what's on the outside, it's what's on the
                          Coke can that counts.
        \_ FOUR MORE YEARS!
2004/6/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:30529 Activity:low
6/1     Is the story background in "Law and Order - Criminal Intent" related to
        the original LaO and LaO SVU?  I've seen some characters appearing in
        both LaO and LaO SVU, but I've never seen that in Lao CI.  Thanks.
        --- guy getting addicted
        \_ They're all L&O shows, and they all take place in Manhattan.  Are
           you surprised that there are occasionally some common characters?
           What do you mean "story background"?
           \_ No, but I'm surprised that LaO CI has no characters from the
              other two series, and vice versa.
2004/6/1-2 [Recreation/Dating] UID:30530 Activity:insanely high
6/1     Why the hell did I pick this major? No girls!! No girls!!
        \_ You want chicks? Transfer to univ. of south carolina or UF or
           someplace in the south and get yer dumb trophy wife wannabee.
           Don't worry, she's only there for her MRS degree.-lior
        \_ I'm sure the people in english or psych are thinking "Why
           the hell did I pick this major? No jobs!! No jobs!!"
           \_ You mean english, psych, eecs, or cs.
           \_ Not to start a flamewar, but teachers are getting hired at a
              prodigious rate now.  But trust me, having a lot grrls in
              your major is no guarantee-- and when they discover Virginia
              Woolf, well, a guy's chances dwindle rapidly.
              \-who's afraid of virginia woolf? --psb
                \_ Any guy with a healthy libido and an eye on a female
                   English Major.
              \_ hahahha fucking the ultra feminist wanna-be dykes was *the*
                 best part of being in college.  the only thing I miss about
                 being married is no longer watching dykes suck my cock right
                 after they spout off whatever garbage some prof/ta put in
                 their head that afternoon.
                 best part of being in college.  the only thing I miss about it
                 being married now is no longer watching dykes suck my cock
                 right after they spout off whatever garbage some prof/ta
                 put in their head that afternoon.
                 \_ Why do you hate women?
        \_ if you can't meet people outside of your major you don't
           deserve to get laid
        \_ ratio was close to 50/50 about 10 yrs back.
           \_ It's not about numbers, but quality. That aside, I only met
              one girl in my major and one in a related major. The rest of
              the girls I met weren't in my major at all but lived in my
              dorm/co-op or were friends of people I met.
        \_ not everyone sees this as a disadvantage
           \_ I never did.  Girls are just another distraction when I'm
              working.  Girls are for not working time.  Down hormones!
              \_ now or never.  it'll never be the same once you leave school.
                 find the time to get laid.
        \_ Don't you have to take at least some classes outside of your major?
           I suggest to join some student group (other than CSUA) if you
           want to meet new people.
        \_ I met exactly zero girls in my major.  I mean *zero*.  I mean not
           met as in I didn't even get a name.  I went to bed with some chick
           almost every night my entire college career.  How?  I talked to
           girls.  Every girl I saw that I was attracted to, I walked up and
           said hi.  Berkeley girls are easy.  If you're not getting laid in
           college....
           \_ That might be so, but I find it even easier to meet women
              in my 30s.
              \_ What do you do such that you meet so many young women?
                 The women are as willing as always, but so many are
                 married by that time that the odds are small. I hear it
                 gets better after 40 when women start to think they are
                 old and fat, even when they aren't.
                 \_ I am a dotcommie, I live in San Francisco, I go to
                    parties. I hated Silicon Valley, mostly because of
                    crappy ratio.
2004/6/1-2 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:30531 Activity:nil
6/1     How do these people stay on csua for days without being logged out?
        I already unset autologout!!
        \_ screen
2004/6/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:30532 Activity:high
6/1     Poll:
        1. Do you think Scott Peterson killed his wife?
        Yes : .,_+/*.
        No  :
        2. Do you think he will be convicted in court?
        Yes : +*.
        No  : .,+/
2004/6/1-2 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:30533 Activity:high 57%like:34808
6/1     Why do I get the feeling Scott Peterson's trial will turn out to be
        just like the Simpson's? Is the guy rich too?
        \_ No weapon found, no clear cause of death, no witnesses.  Tried
           to run.  Circumstantial case.
           \_ The glove does not fit!
              \_ Next time when you plan to kill and bury someone, make sure
                 you buy a pair of gloves of the wrong size.  Did the police
                 bother to test the inside of the gloves for OJ's DNA?
                \_ in the famous demo, oj was wearing a thin plastic glove
                   under the ill fitting leather glove.  try wearing your
                   gloves with saran wrap on next time, they won't fit either
                   \_ First I've heard of this, Link?
        \_ Instead of a wronged black community supporting the defendant, we
           have wronged angry white males.  Both groups think their guy is
           guilty, but also think the evidence is not sufficient.
           \_ I think he did it, I think the evidence is insufficient, I think
              he'll go to prison for it, I think he should go to prison for it,
              I think he'll go to prison for it for the wrong reason.  Justice
              isn't perfect but as long as the guilty get punished, even if for
              the wrong reasons it's headed in the right direction.  -awm
        \_ The American justice systems, much like everything else,
           are for the rich and the true scumbag. If you are rich, you
           can hire a good enough lawyer and you can get away with
           anything. If you are true scumbag, like those black mother
           fuckers in Oakland, then you can get away with pretty
           fuckers in Oakland, then you can get away with pretty [much]
           everything too, because the law is so protective of the
           supposedly innocent that it basically can't touch you. It
           is the middle class that gets fucked up. It is so fucked
           up, that when we deal with terrorists, we need to drop all
           these bullshit and deal with them the correct way. If we
           deal with criminals the way we deal with terrorists, a lot
           less innocent lives will be killed by criminals that the
           \_ fewer
           law fails to bring to justice. If our justice system is so
           fucking great, then deal with terrorists the same way.
           \_ Wow, nice little rant.  Did you lose $50 in small claims court or
              something?  I'm certain my experience with the legal system is
              much worse than yours (since it continues on after 5 years and
              isn't even half over) but I'm not that frothing and bitter about
              it.  Get laid, get drunk, get over it.
           \_ I am the Law!  Put down your weapons and prepare to be Judged!
              \_ Great comic.  Shitty movie.  Too bad they ruined it.
           \_ You know that guy who spray painted a bus in Singapore?
              He'll never spray paint a bus in Singapore in his life
              again, and will surely spray paint more buses in the US
              while chanting "God Bless America!!"
              \_ It wasn't a bus.  It was several people's personal vehicles,
                 but we get the idea.
           \_ This is a crock. Poor get totally shafted by the justice
              system.
              \_ Then why does the system fails to clean up Oakland? East
                 Palo Alto?
                 \_ I don't know but the answer is not because the poor
                    don't get punished for crime. California has a larger
                    percentage of its population locked up than any
                    place on earth. Talk to a DA or PD or any criminal
                    lawyer and ask them about justice and the poor.
                 \_ Shafting poor != cleaning up crime.
2004/6/1-2 [Computer/Rants] UID:30534 Activity:very high
6/1     What's the average bi-monthly Berkeley EBMOD bill for an appartment
        with two people living in it?
        \_ I'm guessing lower than yours.
        \_ you get bi-monthly bills?
           \_ I got EBMUD (water bill) bi-monthly (every 2 months) -!op
        \_ By the way, does anyone know why EBMUD asends me newsletter to my
           home address in Fremont, even though Fremont is served by ACWD and
           I've never been a EBMUD customer elsewhere?
2004/6/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:30535 Activity:kinda low 61%like:34936
6/1     MacHeads:  Half-life for the Mac???
        http://www.dealtime.com/xPR-Half_Life_Platinum_Edition_2
        \_ Don't buy a mac for the games.  You get only the top 10 sellers
           which aren't always the better games and you get them 6-18 months
           later.
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:01 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>