Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:30 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/5/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:30496 Activity:insanely high
        This article was up the other day.  I'm not sure why it got
        squished, except that it was somewhat informative.  Anyway, Kerry
        makes a few good points, but his understanding of North Korea
        seems glaringly bad. -jrleek
        \_ Kerry has 20 years in the Senate on the Foreign Relations
           Committee.  GWB is a draft dodging crack head.  JFK will save
           us all from the quagmire in Iraq that shrub created and will
           restore American credibility around the world for generations
           to come!  If only he had some real passion like Dean or was a
           decent human being non-partisans could vote for like Edwards,
           he would stand a good chance.
           he would stand a good chance in November.  I'm voting for Nader
           since Kerry is just more of the same.  His Iraq plan is "do more
           of what GWB is doing, do it with more troops and try to get our
           EU and UN allies in there to spread the death around".
           \_ Have you heard any of Kerry's speeches?  He has passion.
              He just has very little press coverage.  If he picks Wes
              Clark as his running mate, they'll have 8 years.
              \_ He has fake passion.  He "speechifies".  He doesn't give
                 speeches.  Artificial pauses and talking loudly an octave
                 lower than your regular voice is not passion.  Clark brings
                 nothing to the ticket.  They both have military experience.
                 They both have foreign policy/diplomacy experience.  What
                 do you think Clark brings to the ticket?  He's from the
                 South?  So are others.  The only reason to put Clark on the
                 ticket is if Kerry's military background isn't doing it
                 for him.  Putting Clark on there would be an admission of
                 weakness in an area Kerry claims is his strength.  I think
                 Kerry and his advisors are smarter than that.
           \_ If you really believe that Kerry is the same as Bush, you
              really owe it to yourself to read the man's speeches and
              get to know his policy ideas.  I think you'll find that
              the differences are stark.
              \_ I seen a few and read a few.  The differences are minimal.
                 My example above was policy in Iraq.  The only difference
                 is that Kerry wants to put more troops in.  The NYT did a
                 write up on this a few days ago and went point by point.
                 There's very little difference.  It's just a matter of
                 degree.   The basic policies are the same.
           \_ Me too... Go nader!
              \_ I'm with you, brother!  Don't let them get you to vote for
                 a lesser man with that stuff about Nader "stealing" votes
                 from Kerry or Gore.  He has the same right to run as any
                 US born citizen, of age, etc, as per the Constitution.  When
                 the Democrats remember that power is not their right, they
                 might get my vote again.  There *are* other options for
                 people with principles.
                 \_ Damn straight, America! Vote your conscience, America!
                    Especially when it draws votes away from the one man
                    who can end the Bush nightmare.
                    This message brought to you by Americans for a New
                    \_ Again, you fail to understand.  We don't see your guy
                       as any different than the other guy.  We want *our*
                       guy in office.  Why is that so hard to understand?  I
                       already understand why you find it hard to accept.  Your
                       party doesn't have a right to power.  I don't want your
                       guy in any more than I want the other guy.  *Both* are
                       nightmares to me and people like me.  It will always
                       be so until you get a real candidate or we get a real
                       multi party system in this country.  My vote is *not*
                       being drawn away from your guy.  You *never* had it.
                       \_ What is it you like about Nader?  Is Larry Elder
                          also ok?
                          \_ For starters, Nader isn't a lying two bit sack
                             of career politician scum like the others.  He
                             has a track record of making good things happen
                             for the people, not just talking about it until
                             after the next election cycle.  I like what he
                             says, he says what he means, and he means to do
                             good for all of us.  What else is there to like
                             about any office holder?
                       \_ I'm not a Democrat.  I don't believe in the Dems.
                          I'm pro-choice, pro-Death Penalty reform, anti-
                          huge deficits and trickle-down economics, pro-
                          campaign finance reform, pro-globalization, pro-
                          Science, and pro-Bill of Rights. I think the current
                          Administration is against everything I believe in,
                          and I know that the only candidate who stands a
                          chance in hell of reversing the course of the
                          current Administration is John Kerry.  That's why
                          I'm voting for him.  If I thought Ralph had a chance,
                          I'd vote for him.  He doesn't, under the current
                          system, so I won't.
                          \_ As long as people like you continue to make it
                             that way it will be that way.  You know this
                             country didn't start out with parties?  You know
                             the parties we have now are not the first parties
                             the country has had?  Parties are not eternal.
                             If you don't like the candidate(s) from one or
                             more of the parties you have the duty and
                             obligation to yourself and your country to vote
                             for the best candidate, not make a game out of
                             it.  Game makers have killed the electoral
                             process.  There is nothing wrong with the process
                             as it stands now except the people voting in it.
                    \_ This is starting to remind me of the perennial write-in
                       candidate for the CSUA presidency, !psb.
                       "Vote John F. !GWB.  End the nightmare and save
                       America!" -- ilyas
                       \_ Like it or not, we live in a system where the person
                          who gets the most electoral votes in a single
                          election wins all.  If you have three candidates,
                          and two of the candidates have more in common with
                          each other than with the third, and yet you split
                          the like-minded vote evenly between them, you're
                          reducing the probability that either of those two
                          candidates will defeat the third candidate. If you
                          don't like the system, reform the system, and then
                          vote for the candidate you truly support with a
                          clear conscience.  If you vote for Nader without
                          reforming the system first, you're simply drawing
                          votes away from Kerry's chances of defeating Bush.
                          If you're going to game the system, have the good
                          sense to make sure the rules support your attempt
                          to game it.  Anything else is simply petulancy.
                          \_ You *still* don't get it.  Your guy is *nothing*
                             like my guy and *everything* like that other guy
                             already in office as far as I'm concerned.  If
                             my guy wasn't running I would stay home, I would
                             not be voting for your guy.  Your guy is useless.
                             You keep talking about how voting for Nader is
                             drawing votes away from Kerry which reduces the
                             odds of defeating Bush.  I don't care which of
                             Bush or Kerry wins.  They are the same to me.  If
                             Nader doesn't win, Bush might as well win as far
                             I'm concerned.  It doesn't matter at that point.
                             Not all of us share your obsession with
                             defeating Bush.  Your party uses all it's
                             constituents like that and rules them with fear.
                             "I know we did nothing for you since the last
                             time you supported us and the many times before
                             that but think how much worse it'll be under the
                             other party!"  Enough!  Give me my country back!
                             \_ I really hope you do an in-depth analysis of
                                Kerry and Bush before you make your final
                                decision on their similarity.  In the mean-
                                time, as I wrote above, you really need to
                                get either Instant Run-off elections or the
                                Parliamentary system set up here if you want
                                a Green vote to be worth anything.
                                \_ Bush: scum.  Kerry: scum.  We don't need a
                                   new system.  We need new candidates and
                                   voters willing to vote for them.  We have
                                   the right people running.  Now we just
                                   need new voters who don't see the
                                   process as some sort of game that needs
                                   to be cynically won.
                          \_ I would recommend all CA libertarians to vote
                             Nader.  Why?  Bush will not carry the state as
                             things stand.  Therefore, a vote for Nader is
                             actually more useful than a vote for Bush, since
                             it will encourage Nader to run again, and splinter
                             the socialist camp.  Once that's done, I would
                             probably advocate voting for Buchanan, or whatever,
                             to similarly splinter the non-libertarian Right.
                               -- ilyas
                             \_  And you believe libertarians would want to vote
                                 for Bush because...?
                                 \_ A libertarian may do a number of things,
                                    some of them counterintuitive.  I think
                                    most libertarians, if they choose to vote
                                    for a major party, will generally take
                                    a republican over a democrat.  In some
                                    sense, that's the fault of the democrats.
                                      -- ilyas
                             \_ In terms of the game, I agree with you.
                                \_ It isn't a game.
           \_ Edwards a decent human being?  Yeah, right.  He's a trial
              attorney.  I've scraped better things off the bottom of my shoe.
              He made his millions convincing juries that doctors were at fault
              for children being born with cerebral palsy.  He later admitted
              that he knew that doctors can't cause CP.
              \_ Nonsense.  He made money giving people fucked up by bad
                 doctors a chance to put those incompetents out of business
                 and get enough money from their insurance to have a chance
                 at a semi-normal life.  He serves the little guy, not evil
                 corporations, criminals, and other scum.  I'd take Edwards
                 over that piece of plastic the Democrats have now any day.
              \__\_ Link?  EITHER OF YOU?
                    \_ Edward's legal battles are a matter of public record.
                       Google and you'll find plenty.
                    \_ "n 1985, a 31-year-old North Carolina lawyer named John
                    \_ "In 1985, a 31-year-old North Carolina lawyer named John
                       Edwards stood before a jury and channeled the words of
                       an unborn baby girl."  From the nytimes:
                       \_ Nicely taken out of context of both the article
                          and more importantly, the trial.
                          \_ Out of context?!?  It's the first line of the
        \_ I'm curious: who are you planning to vote for, Jim? --darin
           \_ I haven't descided yet.  GWB does a few things that I think,
              are imortant, well.  He does most other things REALLY badly.
              On the other hand, he's honest about what he wants, which
              is nice.  I haven't read much of Kerry's stuff yet, but at
              least he says here that he's not planning to pull out of
              Iraq.  Which is good because that would be really stupid.
              If Kerry promises the rest of the stuff I think is
              important, I may well vote for him.  On the other hand, for
              a self described expert on foriegn policy, that little
              paragraph about NK (which is also quite important to me)
              looks really stupid and naive.  I'll wait for the debates I
              guess. What about you? -jrleek  PS. Oh yeah, I'm nervous
              about ANYONE NK endorses for President.  On the ohter hand,
              if he plays his cards right, that could mean he might be
              able to do some good with them.
              \_ I've been in favor of getting Bush out of office since reading
                 'Scientific Integrity in Policymaking' see
                 http://soda/~darin/sip.pdf for details.
                 \_ The problem with voting against someone is the last time we
                    did that, we got...Jimmy Carter.  Whee.
        \_ Nader > Clinton > Sharpton > Gore > Dean > Edwards > Kerry > McCain
           > Bush > Buchanan.  But I'm voting for Kerry because the ppl above
           him in the chain either aren't running or don't stand a chance.
           \_ Sharpton?  Who?  Buchanan?  What?  Why are these two even on
              the list?  I'd vote for my dog first.  At least he's cute.
2004/5/30-31 [Politics/Domestic, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:30497 Activity:very high
5/30    Is there some reason psb shouldn't win the election?
        \_ nil
        \_ Man, I ask about one of the most famous CSUA catch phrases, and
           the answer is nil.
           \_ It seemed self evident.  RIDE BIKE!
              \_ ED!  ED!  ED is the STANDARD!  CSUA President.
        \_ psb for president of the United States! psb #1 fan.
           \_ Too late for this round.
2004/5/30-31 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:30498 Activity:high
5/30    Does anyone know where I can find average gas mileage for a give
        car/year?  I have a 1994 Saturn SL2, it gets about 27 mpg.  I was
        just curious if that's average.  (About half in town, half freeway
        \_ I just put in one of those Tornados and increased my mpg from
           13 to 16 (it's not an SUV, just old).  They're $65, but it's
           kinda fun to see the improvement.  I only post because I'm
           proud of it somehow.
        \_ is a good place for all car stuff.
           yousr: Manual: 25 mpg / 34 mpg  Automatic: : 23 mpg / 32 mpg
           In my experience, it is normal to fall in the low end of the
           range unless you drive like a grandma. -phuqm.
2004/5/30-31 [Finance/CC] UID:30499 Activity:insanely high
5/30    Does anyone know how to find out for an arbitrary credit card
        prefix which bank issued that card? Thanks.
        \_ gives you 25 queries for free.
        \_ it's the first two numbers
           \_ Yes, I know it's a certain part of the prefix, but the
              question is how to correlate that to a bank...
        \_ why don't we start a list here. I'll start.
        3715: American Express Platinum
        5369: Chase Freedom
        6011: Discover
        4773: Etrade
        4254: Washington Mutual
        5262: Citibank
        424602: Cal State 9
        447182: Kaiser Lakeside Credit Union
        \_ Please list the first six digits (see the article below, or the
           database above.)
        \_ This article might be interesting:
        \_ You've got 6 cards?  How much debt do you carry?
            \_ I have well over 6 and carry no debt
2004/5/30-31 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:30500 Activity:high
5/30    Are there any plans to have a IMP server for soda? So we can
        check our mails on the web?
        \_ ps auxww | grep imap
           \_ IMP is not IMAP.
              \_ Install it yourself.
              \_ True.  Imp is a small devilish creature serving Satan.
                 \_ How convenient if one were a clever devil and the other
                    devilishly clever.
2004/5/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:30501 Activity:insanely high
5/30    The road to serfdom
        Is it one of the best books ever written?
        \_ Contrict your anus 100 times a day -- Malarkey,
           or effective way?
        \_ could Dianetics really be the Owner's Manual for the Human Mind?
           \_ can I sell mine?  I need a new ipod.
           \_ Scientology were around the UCLA campus one day, with a big
              friendly yellow tend, and attractive young 'volunteer ministers'
              giving out 'stress tests' and so on.  Scientology amuses me so.
                -- ilyas
              \_ I took their personality test.  I think I failed.  They
                 didn't want my money or my soul.
              \_ Yeah, the girl that they post outside the Scientology
                 office in SOMA SF is super cute - until you think about the
                 fact that she's in a cult...
                 \_ So what?  Cult chicks can't put out?  Cult chicks have
                    already proven to be weak willed.  She'll fulfill all
                    your fantasies and do anything you want as long as you
                    promise to consider her cult material.
                    \_ More to the point, cult chicks are programmed to
                       pretend to be willing to put out so that you'll go
                       through the motions of joining the cult.  Be careful
                       when you scam scammers, lest you get scammed.
                       \_ How scammed could I get?  I wanted to get laid with
                          a hot chick who does anal and has a cute friend to
                          join us.  If I get that, what scam is there?  You
                          think they'll empty my wallet while I'm in the
                          bathroom wiping my dick?  What scam?
           \- f hayek has an interesting critique of command economies
              based on price signals but i think anarchy state and utopia
              is more intersting. --psb
              \_ is that a line from the fortune program?  it should be.
                 \- hello does anybody recall who said something like
                    "rousseau believe man was inherently good and his
                    philosophy leads to totalitarianism. hobbes believed
                    man was basically evil and his leads to a theory of
                    freedom." [it's posibble it was voltaire, but pretty
                    sure JJR. it is also possible this isnt a famous line
                    from a book or article but just something someone said
                    that stuck in my head]. ok tnx.
                    \_ Submitting to the Leviathan doesn't strike me as a
                       'theory of freedom.'  Furthermore, it's unclear
                       Rousseau romanticist conception of people necessarily
                       translates into 'people are inherently good.'  The
                       noble savage is still savage, after all.  How Rousseau's
                       writing leads to totalitarianism is a tortured line of
                       reasoning I want to witness for myself. -- ilyas
                       reasoning I want to witness for myself.  It is believed
                       the American Revolution was all but directly inspired by
                       Rousseau, after all. -- ilyas
                       \_ If ilyas and psb fell in a forest,  would there be
                          a sound?
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:30 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>