Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:22 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/5/22-23 [Transportation/Car] UID:30360 Activity:insanely high
5/22    Where is a good place in the east bay area to teach someone how to
        drive a stick shift (wide open spaces, litte traffic, flat ground)?
        \_ Coliseum?  no good lots at UC Berkeley, unfortunately.
           one of the area malls during offhours?
        \_ Berkeley Steamworks
        \_ Actually, if you can find a slight downgrade somewhere,
           isn't that actually easier to learn on?  Of course, at some
           point you'd have to head back up.
        \_ Golden Gate Fields, lower lot
           \_ seconded, that's where I learned :)
        \_ there's a huge department store (boarded up) with parking
           lot in richmond, toyrsur parking lot, or make a man
           out of them and hit the hills of SF
        \_ Bear Creek Road (take Wildcat Canyon over the hills, go straight
           on the other side). There are a number of trailhead parking areas,
           the road has some gentle hills, then some somewhat-tight curves,
           and there are places where you can get into high gear and work on
           downshifting. Not much traffic, particularly outside of commute
           hours. Wide shoulders. It's where I learned. -gm
        \_ I went to a church parking lot in El Sobrante. I felt blessed
           in the holy place and didn't get into any accident there. Church
           parking lot is the best place to learn stick shift.
        \_ I taught myself to drive stick shift in the parking lot above
           Foothill because it was the only reasonably empty lot I could find
           in Berkeley.  It's an oval with two long flat straightaways, and
           edges that feature a slight grade.  Having the graded edges was a
           nice way to get a feel for stick on hills, and was useful for
           practicing starting on a grade.  Plus, when you're done, you can
           test them by having them drive up Hearst. :) -dans
           \_ I taught my sister to drive stick behind Foothill/Stern, but as
              I recall it, it's a long oval, one way going up hill, the other
              going downhill. I had to replace my clutch 4 months later.
2004/5/22-23 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:30361 Activity:high
5/22    Is Yahoo IM authentication at least somewhat secure? i.e., does it
        send out the password in clear text or simple hash? What about MSN
        IM? Google didn't help.
        \_ It's been a long time but I used to share a hub with a coworker.
           One day I fired up a network sniffer for a work thing and was able
           to see all her IMs in clear text.  This was frightfully boring so I
           moved her to her own connection.
        \_ i know for sure that msn uses a simple hash scheme... they
           send a random challenge string, you append the challenge to your
           password, run md5 on (password+challenge), and send the digest
           back to the server. i don't remember what yahoo does, but i vaguely
           remember it was some kind of hashing scheme.
2004/5/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:30362 Activity:high
5/22    Arnold policies help CA ecnomy recover... without raising taxes.
        I didn't vote for him and I don't like everything he's done or trying
        to do and I voted against his propositions but credit where credit is
        due.  If he pulls it off I might vote for him if he runs again.
        \_ shortened to --darin
        I didn't vote for him and I don't like everything he's done or trying
        to do and I voted against his propositions but credit where credit is
        due.  If he pulls it off I might vote for him if he runs again.
        \_ Ooh, the CPAs say we're doing better.  Tell that to grad students
           that now can't afford UC.
           \_ There's a grad school in some other state they can afford?
        \_ ok freeper whatever you say
           \_ SO... you think this didn't actually happen?
           \_ personal attack on OP -> OP post value++ && your value--
2004/5/22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30363 Activity:high
5/22    Explain to me again why Dubya is reliable and trustworth, while
        this man is not:
        \_ To save the rest of you the bother, "this man" is the infamous
           Scott Ritter, taker of Saddam's bribes and molester of children.
           When Dubya starts taking cash from Hussein and raping children,
           he'll have as little credibility as Ritter.  Why were you afraid
           to say "Scott Ritter" instead of "this man" as if we wouldn't all
           know who SR was?  You think we'll all click and read and be mind
           controlled into your conspiracy of the week?
           \_ I thought it was Paul O'Neil that took money from Hussein.  And
              wasn't Richard Clarke the one who raped children?  No one has
              enough credibility or reputation to stand up to the perfection
              of morals that is Bush/Cheney, huh?
              \_ Ritter took $300k from Hussein.  The rest of your post is just
                 silly.  "Your guy is just as bad as our guy so our guy must be
                 good" makes no sense.
                 \_ Wow.  You've got those blinders on firm, huh.  Don't you
                    find it in the least disturbing that there is a stream of
                    people from both sides of the aisle that have decades of
                    experience that are taken to the shredder as soon as they
                    say a disparaging word against the pres on the range?
                    \_ If he hadn't taken $300k from Hussein he wouldn't get
                       shredded for it.  There are plenty of people who speak
                       out very loudly everyday against the current admin and
                       nothing happens to them.  Take off the tinfoil hat
                       before I go dig up that list of all the people
                       associated with Bill Clinton who died under 'mysterious
                       circumstances'.  It was over 100 at last count.  I don't
                       buy the conspiracy theory crap in either direction.  To
                       be intellectually honest requires dismisses all the tin
                       foil hat noise or swallowing all of it.  I choose to
                       dismiss it.  Which do you choose?
           \_ So you're happier with GWB taking cash from the bin Laden family.
              \_ Ritter took $300k from Hussein.  How much did GWB take from
                 the bin Laden family and what's your source?
2004/5/22 [Recreation/Dating, Recreation/Food] UID:30364 Activity:nil
5/22    Cheezy poll, I love:
        feta cheese:
        blue cheese:
        all cheese: .
        squeezy cheese:
        \_ I hate:
        feta cheese: .
        blue cheese: .
        all cheese:
2004/5/22-23 [Recreation/Food] UID:30365 Activity:high
5/22    Are Tullys & Starbucks one company? Why does Tullys also have Tall,
        Grande, Venti sizes?
        \_ Short and Tall used to be standard sizes for real coffee houses.
           Starbucks dropped short as a pussy size.
        \_ I think Starbucks has the patent on Tall(r), Grande(r) and Venti(r)
           sizes.  There's also a suit recently filed between McDonald's and
           Burger King over the use of the terms "small, medium, large" in the
           soft drink sales side of the fast food business.
        \_ Peets > Starbucks.
           \_ Peets?  When I worked near a Peets I stopped drinking cafe drinks
              because it was so horrible.
           \_ real coffee tastes bitter. when you load it with sugar, it
              tastes more like a soft drink. st*rbucks knows its market.
              most americans are still novices with espresso drinks. try a
              local coffee house and find out which barista is good. variety
              is the spice of life. try not to get hooked on st*rbucks
              push-button machines one-flavor-fits-all (like McDonald's)
2004/5/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30366 Activity:insanely high
 5/22    It wasn't a wedding and no dead children.  Better luck next time.
        \_ OK, if the coalition says so.
           \_ You prefer Al Jazeera's word on it?  Okey dokey!
        \_ I am sorry, but reporters from NPR said that plenty of women and
           children were among the dead.  the reporter visited the nearlest
           hospital got the number from the doctors and nurses.
           \_ Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt:  "Bad people have parties too."
           \_ NPR?  Got his info from the local yokels?  People who live on
              the border who see hundreds of foreign terrorists coming through
              and are more likely to be executed as collaborators for telling
              the truth than for telling some NPR flunky a lie?  People who
              are probably in the same tribe as the terrorists who ran the
              terrorist station that got blown up?  Get serious.  He was in
              the hosipital and didn't even count bodies, just asked someone.
              This is incredibly weak.
        \_ Even if it's true, lots of people believed it, because Bush
           has destroyed American credibility for a generation. How many
           will die because of his disregard for human dignity?
           \_ Actually completely the opposite. Bush has restored
              American credibility.  If anyone thinks about standing in
              America's way, he'd better postpone his wedding indefinitely.
           \_ Nonsense.  That's the same crap you were spouting on the wall
              the other day as if repetition = truth, Stalinist style.  How
              much credibility did GWB have with you at *any* point in his
              life?  None.  So it doesn't matter what he has said and done,
              you have always thought of him as "BushCO" and his actions and
              words in any direction make no difference to you regarding his
              credibility, now, in the past or the future.  Your bit at the
              end about human dignity is really funny.  Is that how you got
              so many #1 fans?
              \- er, i didnt write the above. while i do read the NYker,
                 i would not use a comma before "because". anyway, part
                 of the reason i am so angry about this, is i accepted
                 much of the WMD analysis and spent some time defending
                 the "eventual aquisition of nuclear weapons" analysis
                 based on the ladder of escalation. See e.g. my wall of:
                 Boredcast Message from 'psb': Fri Jan 17 17:10:51 2003
                 \-which i have moved to:
                  \_ It's really disturbing that partha gave it more thought
                     than bushco.
                     \_ Wow, you were there when the admin was meeting with
                        partha about this stuff?  You rock!
                     \_ Yeah... partha for president.  w00t!
                        \- when i am president, saying "woot" wont be covered
                           by the 1st amd. --psb
                     \- i accidentally mailed it to instead
                        of .gov --psb
                        \_ Get any quality porn in response?
        \_ FYI, Kimmit said U.S. soldiers had seen no dead children at the
           site.  That's because they were all driven to Ramadi.  Kimmit
           notes that is where they filmed the dead children's bodies.
           Now before you go on with a theory about insurgents digging up
           children's bodies and splashing pig's blood on them or asking
           them to sacrifice their lives for Allah, please think before you
           write.  Children were very likely killed in the attack.  Kimmit's
           strongest argument, if it really was a high-level meeting of
           anti-coaliation forces, is "Bad people have parties too" at which
           there were women and children.
           \_ How the hell do you know?  This is exactly how Jenin played
              out - remember that one?  The military does not willy nilly
              attack with Cobra gun ships and AC-130s in the middle of
              the night.  Sites are scoped for several days if not weeks
              and targetting has to be approved up the chain of command.
              An official has said as much about this incident as well.
              Why the 2 million dinar, sat com equipment, foreign
              passports and weapons caches at a wedding?
           \_ "were very likely" "were driven to Ramadi" is speculative
              noise, at best.  How do you explain the barracks for 300, the
              hundreds of pre-bundled Iraqi clothing piles so foreigners can
              blend in with local styles, and all the rest?  Hey, maybe there
              were dead children.  Maybe it really was a wedding.  It was
              still a terrorist site for moving in foreign terrorists and it
              was appropriate to blow it up and kill whoever was there.  If it
              was Osama's wedding and women and children got killed would you
              cry over that?  And frankly I don't understand the problem with
              killing women and children since we've seen plenty of both who
              are doing their best to kill just like the men.  When you pick
              up a gun, wear a bomb belt or fire from a holy site you, the
              place you're standing and everyone around you become legit
              targets.  This isn't a video game or a mother goose story.
2004/5/22-23 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:30367 Activity:moderate
5/22    Alright, who actually uses Java's Integer and Boolean instead of
        the primitive types and why would you do such a thing?
        \_ Why?  Because primitive types aren't objects, so if a function
           expects objects as arguments, what else are you going to do?
        \_ Serialization, can't stick them in library containers, what the
           above poster said.
                \_ ah ha! thanks Java stud!
        \_ Boolean b = null;
2004/5/22-24 [Reference/Law/Court] UID:30368 Activity:very high
5/22    Update on the bus driver lawsuit. I won and submitted the Writ
        of Execution, Earning Withholding Order to the Sheriff who served
        it to his employer. He makes $1600 a month as a bus driver. How
        \_ Um, what was this "bus driver lawsuit" about?
        \_ You're really cool for calling him pathetic because of his
           monthly salary. What do you do for a living, hotshot?
           \_ And then stealing what little he makes from him.
             \_ The guy gave me a bogus address/insurance info/etc. He
                threatened to counter sue me with injuries that he didn't
                even have, and changed his phone number so that I couldn't
                call him anymore. I didn't want to raise my insurance
                premium and certainly didn't want to pay for damages outa
                my pocket money so hired a private investigator, who had
                a really really hard time tracking him down since he is so
                clever and elusive. But hard work prevailed and now he will
                \_ You're disgusting.
                  \_ You didn't let me finish. After the private detective
                     served the paper, he filed for delay. So 3 months passed,
                     he lost the case, and filed for appeals via mail. But
                     that's not it. He wrote a check for $1-2 more than
                     necessary to the court clerk, and being government and
                     all they had to cash, refund, etc before they could
                     proceed with the appeals. So that delayed it by another
                     4 months. Just because he's poor and uneducated doesn't
                     make him less guilty for being a lying scumbag. That's
                     pretty much what both of the judges told him in court.
                   \_ Out of curiousity, why do you say this?  Being poor
                      doesn't automatically make you good. -- ilyas
                      \_ Apparently, neither does being educated.
                         \_ No, really, what am I missing?  It's one thing if
                            the guy agreed to pay, and then the op
                            realized the bus driver was a poor guy, and forgave
                            the debt.  But this bus driver was not acting in
                            good faith, and was trying to avoid his obligations.
                            If I was in op's position, I would do the same
                            thing. -- ilyas
                            \_ What you are missing is that this moron
                               says that $1600/month is pathetic and feels
                               superior because of it.
                               \_ Hey, he can feel superior to me too, that's
                                  about how much grad students make... which
                                  is kind of depressing. -- ilyas
                                  \_ if the bus driver is poor and uneducated
                                     then the op should have more sympathy
                                     for him because that's probably how he
                                     was taught to do to survive (lying,
                                     cheating, evading, etc). So yes I still
                                     think the op is a loser and should at
                                     least have given the bus driver a break
                                                        -guy who grew up poor
                                     \_ So you hold people with less money to a
                                        lower moral standard?  I'm sorry but
                                        \- Those of you motivated to reflect
                                           a little deeply, in these times,
                                           on wealth, on justice, "the good",
                                           means and ends, and most of all,
                                           "might and right", ought to read the
                                           Republic. From a quick look, this
                                           looks fair:
                                           One of the first bits is on
                                           "wealth and morality". I suppose
                                           you can wait for the MEEL Gibson
                                           and Brad Pitt version. --psb
                                           \_ Oh look, the cliff notes, web
                                              edition.  -- ilyas
                                              \- i'm obviously not suggesting
                                                 this is a substitute. but then
                                                 again not all of us read
                                                 ancient greek. if you want
                                                 "the real thing", penguin or
                                                 grube. i havent read jowitt.
                                                 \_ I like Allan Bloom.  Penguin
                                                    sucks as a general rule.
                                                    Everything with a penguin
                                                    for a mascot sucks!  Stupid
                                                    penguins.  -- ilyas
                                                    \- dont be an idiot.
                                                       penguin classics are
                                                       usually pretty good
                                                       as a default. --psb
                                                       as a default.
                                                       off the top of my
                                                       head, the main thing
                                                       for which penguin is
                                                       not one of the standards
                                                       is homer. --psb
                                                       \_ Listen, partha...
                                                          when I buy a
                                                          translation, I usually
                                                          go to the kind of
                                                          store where there are
                                                          lots of them side by
                                                          side, and usually
                                                          read at least a
                                                          chapter out of each
                                                          right there in the
                                                          store.  In my
                                                          experience penguin
                                                          is inferior to almost
                                                          any other edition, if
                                                          one exists.  Penguin's
                                                          cheap though, I ll
                                                          give it that.
                                                            -- ilyas
                                                            \-i have a lot of
                                                 penguins that are from sylla-
                                                 bus recommendations. you want
                                                 to put your assessment of
                                                 greek or latin or italian
                                                 over the berkeley classics
                                                 faculty, be my guest.
                                                 in individual cases there
                                                 may be better options, like
                                                 say one of the recent
                                                 "pedagogic thucydides", based
                                                 on your particular
                                                 background and interest, but
                                                 penguins do have a good
                                                 general reputation. i should
                                                 clarify when i mean classics
                                                 i mean Classics with a Big C.
                                                 \_ You can find faculty
                                                    somewhere to recommend
                                                    almost every translation
                                                    there is.  I trust my own
                                                    language sense. -- ilyas
                                                    \-do you know ancient
                                                         greek? --psb
                                        this is so stupid I don't even have the
                                        words to begin.  Instead of being a
                                        total piece of crap, maybe he should
                                        have spent 1/10th as much time learning
                                        to drive, getting an education, or any
                                        number of other things that would
                                        improve his life instead of putting all
                                        his time and effort into being a piece
                                        of total garbage.  I not only have no
                                        sympathy for the bus driver but I
                                        loudly applaud the OP for keeping on
                                        this asshole, not letting him get away
                                        with it and making him suffer.
                                        \_ He is a bus driver, he obviously
                                           knows how to drive. As for the
                                           education part, not everyone is
                                           cut out for college. Some people
                                           simply aren't smart enough, though
                                           this guys sounds pretty clever.
                                     \_ This is where I disagree.  Making fun
                                        of him for being poor is stupid.  Making
                                        fun of him (and getting payback) because
                                        he is lying scum is fine. -- ilyas
        \_ The guy got into a car accident and lied repeatedly to avoid
           paying for it.  This is different from stealing a loaf of bread
           to feed your starving family.
           \_ Sure, but why is his salary a relevant fact?
              \_ Did I say anything about his "salary"?
                 \_ Yes. Can't you read the original post?
                    \- in court someone has to win. in the judgement of
                       who is an asshole, both can "win". --psb
                       \_ w00t! -psb #2 fan
                          \- this is really a horrible expression the
                             use of which you will look back on with shame.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:22 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>