Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:21 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/5/21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:30335 Activity:high
5/20    In Java, how does a class instantiate an inner class that belongs
        to another class?
        \_ You don't.
        \_ I remember "new OuterClass.InnerClass()" working.
2004/5/21 [Politics/Foreign/Canada, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:30336 Activity:very high
 5/21    Bomb Canada: ( post)
        \_ If we're nice to the terrorists, they'll be nice back!  It's
           just because we're so mean that they attack!
        \_ I think we should negotiate with the terrorists.  Surely their
           demands are reasonable and can be accomadated.
        \_ I agree with both of the above.  If we just let them kill all the
           Jews, give them back Spain, build new Wahabi schools to educate
           more of their children, and all either convert or kill ourselves,
           they'll stop attacking us.
        \_ I think Bush and Osama need to get together for some
           tantric yoga.
        \_ Just think of how much more we could have gotten done in the war
           on terror if we hadn't listened to Chalabi.
2004/5/21 [Computer/Companies/Apple, Consumer/Audio] UID:30337 Activity:insanely high
5/21    Why apple has an iPod division:
        \_ silly speculation.  -tom
          \_ How's that kool-aid tasting?
             \_ I own a Mac, but I certainly haven't drunk the kool-aid.
                Apple has significant challenges going forward, and the
                biggest one is that they are still massively reliant on the
                desktop hardware business; getting rid of it is not really
                possible.  -tom
        \_ Because the iPod makes them lots of money.  Duh.
        \_ This from the same guy who has zip understanding of MMORPGs but
           wrote a column on their economies.
2004/5/21 [Health/Disease/General] UID:30338 Activity:very high
5/21    Soda might cause cancer:
        \_ Everything causes cancer when you give a rat 50,000 times in a day
           the amount a human would consume in a lifetime.
           \_ Not to say that there aren't problems with how this type
              of research is done... but they actually do need to give
              rats many times the human daily dosage of a substance to
              compensate for the more active rat metabolism.
              \_ Does 50,000 x 365 x 70 human sized doses per rat per day
                 sound right to you?
        \_ then delete my username and account ASAP please
        \_ Heck, I knew that.  Spending 36 hours straight in a basment
           with 40 computers CAN'T be good for you.
        \_ Log off now!
2004/5/21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:30339 Activity:insanely high
5/21    For those not subscribed to

        From: (Jeffrey Varga)
        Subject: CSUA T-Shirts are in!

        Yes, CSUA T-Shirts are now officially in!

        If you sent me an email requesting to reserve one, I most likely
        emailed you individually.  If I did not email you back, I have not
        reserved one for you and your email has been eaten!

        For everyone else, buy your vintige CSUA cheap knockoff T-Shirts for
        the low-low price of only $12.  Buy now, and for only $0.25 you can
        get fruity crack!


        jvarga [has gone nuts from finals]
        \_ Question: is there any reason the CSUA doesn't have a cafepress
           store for these t-shirts?  I'd be interested in one except I'm an
           alumnus and nowhere near Berkeley.
           \_ cafepress doesn't offer black t-shirts, for one thing.
              \_ RACIST!
              \_ RAPIST!
                 \_ what?
        \_ whatever happened to the price list design shirt that was going
           to be on cafepress?
        \_ Me too.  Is there a way to buy one if I live 2000 miles away?
2004/5/21 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:30340 Activity:insanely high
2/21    I just upgraded a very old PIII to an AthlonXP. I used the cheapest
        CPU and a rather cheapie MB with only 256 megs of RAM (I just wanted
        to do something with the extra box and drives I had lying around.)
        It seems to run a LOT faster than my laptops running a Celeron 1.5
        gigahertz with 256 megs of RAM and seems comparable with a 3.2
        gigahertz P4 laptop with 512 RAM I have on loan from the company I
        work for. It's especially noticable when running stuff like 3D games
        (I'm not a gamer so the stuff I run is 3 years old). I stuck in a
        cheapie Radeon 9600 and it seems to run a lot faster and smoother
        than even the higher rated laptop (which has a mobile Radeon builtin).
        Has anyone had similar experiences
        before? Do laptops really suck that much vs. desktops? The memory and
        the drive I suppose really do affect performance (I turned off cpu
        throttling on the mobiles but it didn't make much difference).
        \_ You're looking at a few things here.  1) the bus speed on the
           laptops is probably dirt.  2) celerons suck.  3) mobile video is
           always "teh suk!".  mobile video vs desktop: even when it has the
           same model # is never as good as the desktop version.  they cut
           out extra performance bits and often lower the clock to save power
           and heat.  4) laptop video is lcd and probably set to a lower
           refresh rate than your desktop default on a crt.  5) the bus speed
           and ram on your desktop is also probably set lower than desktop.
           6) the laptops probably have some power saving mode on which is
           keeping your cpu from burning itself up and not telling you.  this
           is all in no particular order, btw, and without knowing more about
           your particular setup it could be any or none of these.  -amc
           \_ oh yeah, the hard drives in laptops are usually slower, too. -amc
           your particular setup it could be any or none of these.
           \_ I am a EE idoit, so, forgive me.  Does LCD has "refresh rate"
              as well?  For CRTs, I can literally see the electron guns
              and imagine it sweeping back and forth 60 times a second.
              \_ Systems have refresh rates that determine how often updates
                 are sent to the monitor.  Refresh rates for LCD monitors
                 usually don't mean too much, though; there's no electron
                 gun for LCDs, so there's no flicker, which is usually why
                 people want high refresh rates in the first place.  LCD
                 monitors do have response times though, which is the amount
                 of time it takes for a pixel to completely change states.  A
                 high response time leads to ghosting.
              \_ In effect, yes.  The on/off time for an lcd pixel can be
                 mostly equated to the refresh time on a crt.
        \_ I have an Alienware 51-m laptop (for work).  It has a 3.2 GHz HT
           CPU, 1 GB RAM and a 7200 RPM drive, Mobility Radeon 9600.  It's just
           as good as a desktop (with the possible exception of the video--I
           have a Radeon 9800 at work, so I can't easily compare it to the
           Mobility).  It also has a 8.8 Amp-Hr battery and 160 W power supply,
           and weighs 10 lbs.  But it's a pleasure to use.
2004/5/21 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:30341 Activity:kinda low
5/21    In the following procmail example (found on a procmail help page),
        is there any reason for the extra ':' on the first line.  What file
        is being locked?  Even if one of the actions were writing to a
        file, wouldn't it be sufficient to just have the extra ':' right
        before that particular command, and NOT before the '{'?
                :0:  # forward jokes to my wossamatta u. account
                * ^From.*bob
                * ^Subject:.*(joke|funny)
                :0 c

                | lpr -Pacsps
2004/5/21 [Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:30342 Activity:high 55%like:30347
5/21    Bill Cosby gets it.  NAACP Mfume and Shaw do not.,0,7539165,print.story?coll=ny-entertainment-headlines
        \_ What a shock.  A self-made millionaire understands real life, but
           leaders of a group motivated to maintain victimhood dosen't.
        \_ I don't think Bill gets it, I think he is being arrogant.
           Everyone has their own way of talking in the right setting.
           You don't talk the same around your parents, as you do your
           friends, or at work.  There's nothing wrong with slang in the
           right setting.  Besides, once slang is accepted in the
           mainstream it no longer sounds ghetto.  Take for instance,
           "it's all good".  10 years ago you'd never hear White professionals
           utter that, but now it's quite common.  Cosby needs to get off of
           his high-horse, he sounds like a sell-out.
           \_ Slang is fine at home but not in business.  I don't care if
              people speak pidgin, ebonics, English, Spanish or Martian at
              home.  But use standard English if you want to interact with the
              rest of US society.
          \_  White people have white trash who we make fun of.  If
               you make fun of black trash it's racism.  Hoookay...
               (Or in this case, since Cosby is black he's an Uncle Tom)
        \_ AP's version of the evening differs from NewsDay and WorldNetDaily.
           Quelle shock!
           \_ Neither account claims to be comprehensive.  This is new?
        \_ Tell us another one, Unka Tom!
2004/5/21 [Recreation/Humor, Politics/Domestic] UID:30343 Activity:very high
        Aren't Right Wingers funny when they make fun of dead peace activists?
        \_ Aren't peace activists funny when they do something stupid and die?
           \_ no, actually, that's not funny at all.
        \_ I'm waiting for some self-identifying conservative to disavow this
           one the way I disavow myself from Ted Rall's frequent idiocy. I
           suspect it won't happen, actually. -- ulysses
                \_ I'm taken aback by the uproar considering most
                   leftists are also Darwinists.
           \_ You are a liberal?
             \_ That depends on who's asking. -- ulysses
        \_ I'm not sure what to disavow here.  This is tasteless and not
           funny.  One the other hand, it's just a crappy cartoon in a
           University rag.  It's not nationally syndicated, who cares?
           BTW, yes, I'm right wing, and I think what she did was stupid.
           Doesn't mean I don't think this comic is too.
2004/5/21 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:30344 Activity:nil
5/21    How do I configure Mozilla to use outlook when I click on an email
        address? It keeps insisting launching it's own mail program!!
        \_ it's clearly smarter than you are.
        \_ This is one of the big failings of Mozilla.  Use Firefox instead.
        \_ I looked this up a few months ago.  It wasn't worth the trouble.
           I got a new job instead.  Good luck!
2004/5/21-22 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:30345 Activity:very high
5/21    I was not a CS major and never took the compiler class.  What is
        a good book to help me write a compiler?  And what about interpreter?
        Do they basically involve the same issues except code generation and
        \_ Use the book by Robert Mak, called "Writing Interpreters and
           Compilers in C++." It's a practical, hands-on "lab" type book which
           doesn't get bogged down in too much theory. It's a lot of book to go
           through, but if you pace yourself and follow the examples you'll
           have a good, practical knowledge about writing interpreters and
           compilers. I would avoid theory books such as the Dragon book since
           from what you've indicated you probably want practice over theory,
           (I doubt you're planning to write the next ocaml or haskel or some
           other junk language that will never see the light of day...) Also,
           compilers and interpreters are no longer written in the sense that
           you think of. Nowadays people use metainterpreters/compilers to
           build stuff like this (i.e. lex and yacc).
        \_ Oh God!!! Here we go with everyone responding about how great the
           dragon book and CLR are.
           \_ Let me be the first to say what a piece of crap the dragon book
              was (is).  It's written so badly it often took me 5-6 reads to
              understand a paragraph, often requiring me to diagram what the
              author was writing.  The book seems to go to great lengths to
              avoid clear examples too, which makes it more fun.
                \_ agree, this book uses the most cryptic English ever.
        \_ You should take basic CS classes before reading the compiler book.
           Otherwise it'll be easy to get lost. Do you know regular/push-down
           and other Chomsky-hierarchy shit? If not you better get to know
           them before you get into compilers.
           \_ agree on basic CS courses, I dunno what chom-whatever was, and
              I still got thru this course. you basically need to know data
              structures and be reasonably decent at programming.
        \_ I took CS164 (w/ Hilfinger, no less) but by the time I graduated, I
           totally forgot most of the stuff I learned. What are some actual
           applications of writing a lexer/parser as opposed to taking
           something off the shelf or just putting together a very simple
           language that is easily parsed by Perl?
           \_ None whatsoever, since it's already been proven that current
             languages (C, Pascal, scheme, lisp, forth or any fully functional
             ALGOG type language) are as powerful as langauges can get. In
             other words all modern computer programming languages are
             essentially equivalent and it is impossible to write a more
             functional language than what is already out there. The
             people who are trying to invent new languages are merely
             wasting time and are essentially arguing about style rather
             than substance. --williamc
             \_ Not exactly. Though programming languages that are Turing
                Complete are equally powerful, some are more expressive
                than others -- this is something you can quantify using
                a model like Denotational Semantics.
                      \- if you think the dragon book is confusing, have you
                         tried reading anything by Christopher Strachey? --psb
                \_ That's true, certain languages are definitely more apt
                   at doing certain things than others (i.e. you can do
                   things in Perl much more quickly than in C or Java and
                   vice versa). However, the point is that there isn't
                   anything that really requires another language that
                   isn't already out there. We've been at OOP for what,
                   the past 20-30 years? Pattern programming has never
                   really taken off except in very fundemental class
                   design. So what's really left to "invent" in a
                   new language? If you argue for better parralleism
                   for MPAs I'd say we had languages like that with
                   Modula 2/3. --wllliamc
                   \_ One idea I was toying with was separating 'object' from
                      'data structure' in the language.  The language library
                      provides mathematical objects for you to use:
                      (graphs, sets, trees, etc), and changes the
                      implementation (at compile time) depending on how they
                      are used, in the same way that databases do query
                      optimization.  I don't think this has been done yet.
                      I think the field of 'improving tools' for programmers
                      and people representing knowledge is wide open. -- ilyas
                      \_ The Self virtual machine will change the machine
                         code implementation of your data structure depending

                         on how it is used. And in a prototype-based language,
                         like Self, it's pretty easy to define interfaces
                         that change behavior as you use them.
                         \_ I think what I want is for the compiler to do this,
                            not the programmer.  Say if you use a set but only
                            iterate over it, an array will do, but if you do
                            random access, you want a hashtable.  A compiler
                            can figure these things out, and substitute the
                            right data structure, while a programmer can think
                            about properties of sets themselves.  It's cool
                            that self does this, but I wonder if it does
                            'complexity analysis' to figure out what data
                            struct to use like "this set is accessed randomly
                            a linear number of times, so we want a data struct
                            which supports random access in constant time", and
                            so on.  These are the kinds of decisions a
                            programmer makes, and it would neat if occasionally
                            the compiler could take over this job. -- ilyas

           Actually, looking back, I think part of the reason I don't remember
           anything is that I took it with Hilfnger and was too busy
           deciphering his project specs and doing the projects and not busy
           enough learning the theory and applications... but at least I can
           still pick up something like the Java or JVM spec and understand it.
           \_ Manycompiler/interpreters are for some very specialized language.
           \_ Many compiler/interpreters are for some very specialized language.
              It only has one application, and you might not even recognize
              it as a programming language.
2004/5/21 [Health/Disease/General] UID:30346 Activity:nil
5/21    I have been get some mails that just contains just a short paragraph
        claiming I have sent them emails with viruses, which I of course did
        not.  Is it really somebody forged emails with my email address?
        The hostnames of those who send me the complaint do not seem legitimate
        either, but if they were spam, what are they trying to sell if their
        messages contain no solicitation nor ad?
        \_ These fake virus emails usually have an attachment which they claim
           is the thing you sent them but is really a virus.  Just delete.
2004/5/21 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:30347 Activity:high 55%like:30342
5/21    Bill Cosby gets it.  NAACP Mfume and Shaw do not. []> (shortened)
        \_ What a shock.  A self-made millionaire understands real life,but
           leaders of a group motivated to maintain victimhood dosen't.
        \_ I don't think Bill gets it, I think he is being arrogant.
           Everyone has their own way of talking in the right setting.
           You don't talk the same around your parents, as you do your
           friends, or at work.  There's nothing wrong with slang in the
           right setting.  Besides, once slang is accepted in the
           mainstream it no longer sounds ghetto.  Take for instance,
           "it's all good".  10 years ago you'd never hear White professionals
           utter that, but now it's quite common.  Cosby needs to get offof
           his high-horse, he sounds like a sell-out.
           \_ Slang is fine at home but not in business.  I don't care if
              people speak pidgin, ebonics, English, Spanish or Martian at
              home.  But use standard English if you want to interact withthe
              rest of US society.
              \_ Business is not some monolithic White Republican thing. Is
                 black slang appropriate if you are a rap A&R person? Of
          \_  White people have white trash who we make fun of.  If
               you make fun of black trash it's racism.  Hoookay...
               (Or in this case, since Cosby is black he's an Uncle Tom)
                \_ If you're black and you make fun of black trash it's ok.
                   Generally, it's tacky to poke fun at race if it's not your
                   \_ I'd say it's tacky (but fun) to make fun of your own race
                      but it's mean-spirited and possibly racist to make fun
                      of a different race.
        \_ AP's version of the evening differs from NewsDay and WorldNetDaily.
           Quelle shock!
           \_ Neither account claims to be comprehensive.  This is new?
              \_ you're right, it's not new that NewsDay takes quotes out
                 of context in a pathetic attempt to push their own agenda.
                 Hey, you want to post another link to an ice flow study
                 as "proof" against global warming?  -tom
                 \_ The AP version is shorter and has clearly cut out or
                    mischaracterized the less "PC" Cosby lines.  You've got it
                    all back asswards, as usual.
        \_ Tell us another one, Unka Tom!
2004/5/21 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:30348 Activity:very high
5/21    My boss's new black BMW got keyed recently along the length of the car.
        He tried to buff it out, but the scratch is still there.  Any
        recommendations?  Thanks.  No, I didn't do it.
        \_ are you the world's biggest sycophant? why do you even care?
        \_ Comprehensive insurance. My car got keyed and I paid $50 out-of-
           pocket. $100 and $150 are more common of more  expensive cars.
           \_ Bad suggestion. Your insurance will go up. Don't file frivolous
              \_ That's what comprehensive insurance is for.. it includes
                 minor theft / vandalism and isn't supposed to count
                 towards your premium going up. They aren't allowed to
                 hike your premiums for these things. BTW, this also
                 includes things like cracks in your windshield from
                 rocks on the freeway
              \_ My premium didn't go up. Claims against comprehensive
                 (because they're committed by acts of vandalism or acts
                 of God) don't increase your premium. Check with your
                 \_ "If God lived on Earth, people would knock out all His
                     windows." -- Yiddish saying
                 \_ Anything under $500 or so should not increase your premium.
                    But most comprehensive come with a deductible that you
                    have to pay out of your pocket.  If you have $250 or $500
                    deductible, not worth it.
                    \_ Mine was over $500 and it didn't increase my premium.
                       The point is that it wasn't your fault and was
                       completely out of your control. In that case, it should
                       not count against you as it would if you were simply
                       a bad driver. $250-$500 deductibles are pretty steep.
                       I've never seen them that high although it would be
                       \- Helo I dont think you understadn moral hazard.
                          Anyway, if you file a lot of claims, it may suggest
                          you somehow more expensive to insure ... whether that
                          is because you live/work/park in a bad area, have
                          a nasty bumper sticker that pisses off people and
                          gets your car keyed, whether you have a stalker or
                          neighbor who hates you. Unless an insurance co is
                          regulated against using filed claimed as signals,
                          it probably makes sense for things like this to have
                          an effect on primiums. --psb
                       \_ You must be paying high premium.  How often do you
                          claim for comprehensive?
                          \_ Not really. I only filed once because some
                             asshole who deserves to be gang-raped in
                             San Quinton keyed my mid 90's car.
                             \_ If you hadn't blocked his driveway,
                                he wouldn't have keyed your car.
                          \_ I had a $100 deductible on my comprehensive (I
                             don't have comprehensive any more).  Came in handy
                             when a rock cracked our windshield (and the
                             windshield cost $900 to replace).
          \_ Do you drive a BMW or sports car?
        \_ If your boss drives a BMW, he/she must have money pay for such minor
           damages.  Why even trying to waste your precious time to even
           find a cheap way to fix it.
           \_ because he's the one who keyed it
              \_ Loser #1:  No one likes wasting money, even BMW drivers.
                 Loser #2:  I didn't do it.
                 \_ Loser #3: ass kisser.
                    \_ Oh yes, I see now how this discussion has evolved.
           \_ BMW drivers have hearts and souls, too.  And sometimes not\
             so snobby as to think "$500 is nothing." --chris
             \_ It's actually amazing what misconceptions people have of
                BMW as being an expensive car. Relatively speaking, a
                3-series actually costs less than those monsterous SUVs
                and even many sedans that look cheap (Subaru STi, Evo,
                G35, Lexus, etc.).
                \_ X5
                \_ My 3 series was over $40K. Lexus, G35, and such were
                   almost $10K cheaper. It is expensive for what it is. By
                   the way, keeping a low deductible is a waste of money.
                   Get one with $500 or $1000 and use it only when you need it.
                   \_ Lexus and G35 are pieces of crap.  Just because they're
                      $10K cheaper doesn't mean it's a good value.  You should
                      have bought a used 5-series for the same money. -chris
                      \_ That's actually true. Edmunds uses to concept of
                         true-cost-of-ownership  which factors in things
                         like mileage, depreciation, and maintainance costs.
                         BMWs have free maintainance for the first 3 years.
                         They hold their value pretty well and they're
                         pretty fuel efficient. Their lame SUVs, on the
                         other hand, are a different story.
                      \_ I think Lexus is a better car and my next car
                         might well be a Lexus. Also, if I wanted a 5
                         series I would've gotten a 5 series. I didn't
                         want a 5 series.
                         \_ Latest issue of Consumer Reports shows that
                            reliability for Mercedes & BMW is in the dumps.
                            Japanese luxury cars don't have that problem.
                            \_ Yep. My neighbor has a Mercedes and a
                               Volvo. His next car? Toyota Avalon. He's
                               sick of the problems and his last Toyota
                               had none.
                            \_ most of that is about trim pieces and such, as
                               opposed to costly mechanical stuff, but yeah.
                               \_ Look at it this way. I have had all 4
                                  power window regulators replaced under
                                  warranty at $400 each. When the warranty
                                  goes out that is not a cheap repair. Add
                                  in the time I wasted with my car in the
                                  shop and the frustration (one broke on
                                  my way to a concert and I had to go back
                                  home to switch cars!) and it sucks! My
                                  Honda hasn't had one regulator replaced
                                  yet in TWICE the time!
                   \_ Well the 3 series price range is huge, the base ones are
                      retail 28K, invoice under 26. There are quite a lot of
                      cars in the 30-40K range that people don't get this
                      attitude over (Ford Explorer). High end brands just each
                      have connotations about what kind of people own them.
                      But for some reason Audi and Acura and even Lexus I think
                      don't have that brand image. Probably because it wasn't
                      until the 90's that they really got in the game.
2004/5/21 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30349 Activity:high
5/21    Bravo Pelosi! You have more balls than most politicians.
        Fuck Bush!
        \_ all balls , no brains. Her answer on her way to win
           the war on terrorism: "Education"
        \_ On the left, this passes for political rumination.
           \_ On the right, this passes for terrorism.
              \_ wewt!
        \_ Also more money (richest woman in congress).  Also more plastic
           surgery (okay, that's speculation).
           \_ Wait, how many women are there in congress?  And how rich is she?
              \_ This kind of talk puts American lives at risk!
                 Amend that to one of the richest people in congress.
                 \_ what does that have to do with anything?
                    \_ No less than the op.
                       \_ uh, what?
               \_ Lest we omit that 8 of the top richest congresscritters
                  are also Dem.
        \_ "The San Francisco/Boston Democrats led by John Kerry have now
           adopted 'Blame America First' as their official policy," RNC
           Chairman Ed Gillespie said..." Why does Pelosi hate America??
           I'm George Bush, and I approved this message.
2004/5/21 [Reference/Religion] UID:30350 Activity:high
        Man, don't go golfing in Florida.  (Actually gator bites car)
        \_ There was a 8 foot gator in the pool of my grandparent's
           neighbors in Boca.
           \_ Never live in a town called "Rat Mouth"
              \_ Tell that to the jews who have taken over.
2004/5/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/HateGroups] UID:30351 Activity:insanely high
        black white supremacist video
        \_ rofl :)
        \_ not funny at all.
           \_ i have to agree... concept wasn't too bad but that was boring.
              forced and overlong, plus... racism isn't funny.
              \_ RACIST!
                 \_ RAPIST!
                    \_ BIKE RIDER!
                       \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
                          \_ MASS GRAVES?
                             \_ OUTRAGED BY OUTRAGE!
                                \_ SUV IS THE STANDARD!
2004/5/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:30352 Activity:nil
5/21 (ABC News)
        30-year-old Abu Ghraib sysadmin Sgt. Provance stripped of his security
        clearance and told he may face prosecution because his comments were
        "not in the national interest."  He was probably smacked because:
        "Provance said when Fay interviewed him, the general seemed interested
        only in the military police, not the interrogators, and seemed to
        discourage him from testifying", making Maj. Gen. Fay (who has been
        assigned by the Pentagon to look into MI's role in the abuse) look
        really bad.
        \_ If you're a sysadmin you'd better be at least a Major.
           Sergeants get paid peanuts. They got what they paid for.
2004/5/21-22 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:30353 Activity:nil
5/21    What is the proper way to spin down a an IDE disk in a FireWire
        enclosure in Linux? hdparm (the ATA/IDE tool) or scsi-spin?
        The Firewire device shows up as SCSI in /dev/sda/
2004/5/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30354 Activity:insanely high
5/21    More and more pics and videos from Iraq.  Some at the washingtonpost.
        \_ Is there some reason I'd WANT to see more gruesome pictures?
           \_ Why, as explained by a Washington Post editor:
              \_ Not compelling to me.
                 \_ Well, now you know, at least.
        \_ Expect ongoing politicizing of the images slowly leaked out
           by the media until the election.  And people wonder
           why the left is accused of treason.
           \_ You should raed the above URL, first.  Then you can come back
              and call the liberal left treasonous.  I don't care.
           \_ You should read the above URL, first.  Then you can come back
              and call the liberal left treasonous.  There's nothing I don't
              like more than an uninformed Bush supporter.
                \_ Uhm, I think we all know bad shit happened to some Iraqis
                   in US custody.  Is it necessary to see all 1000 photos and
                   17 videos spread out over every 3 days between now and the
                   election?  No, it is not.  I mostly support the original
                   revealing of what was going on.  I do not support the
                   politically motivated trickling we're now seeing.
                \_ Well you should care, because the media is trying to
                   recreate Vietnam all over again.  Its disgusting and
                   treasonous.  Please explain to me how I am uninformed.
                   I am waiting to be enlightened, please deign to do so!!!
                   \_ Do you agree with suspending our obligations in the
                      Geneva Conventions?
                      \_ Like this section: "..shall encourage the
                         practice of intellectual, educational, and
                         recreational pursuits, sports and games
                         amongst prisoners"?
                         A combatant is someone in the military
                         service of a country that wears a uniform with
                         a fixed distinctive insignia, openly carries a
                         weapon, obeys the laws of war and answers to a
                         chain of command. American military forces
                         diligently follow these rules. Terrorists that
                         the American military is fighting in Afghanistan
                         and Iraq do not. Even under the Geneva
                         Convention, spies, saboteurs, terrorists and
                         criminals may be tried and punished (up to death).
                         So in conclusion there are no "obligations".
                            \- fine. if there are no obligations than
                               "the media" has no obligations not to
                               publish these. in addition to looking
                               backwards toward the "obligations" how
                               about considering the "repurcussions".
                               do you think it would be better if the
                               non-american press covered this and the
                               us press was silent?
                                 \_ Yes obviously the policies should
                                    be reconsidered but that does not
                                    necessitate invoking Geneva.  What
                                    I am speaking to is the use of this
                                    by the media as a political tool
                                    to bludgeon the President and
                                    by extension the effort in Iraq.  What
                                    will happen is the media will continue
                                    to leak photos until the election in
                                    an effort to recreate Vietnam.  Its
                                    disgusting, transparent, and
                                    treasonous.  I would gladly trade a
                                    Bush loss and Iraq victory.  The Dems have
                                    decided to do anything to win, country
                                    be damned.
                                    \- arent you conflating "the dems" and
                                       "the press". let me ask you this:
                                       if corporations can take out ads
                                       and write checks to parties and
                                       congresspersons, why cant editorial
                                       boards express their opinions?
                                       what change to the status quo are
                                       you recommending. it's not like
                                       BUSH CO is saying "lets wait for the
                                       legal process to work" ... they are
                                       certainly promoting their "few bad
                                       apples" position. you know the 1st
                                       amd doesnt just apply to rep senators
                                       from oaklahoma.
                                       \_ dems = the press.  whats the problem
                                          with that statement?
                                       \_ No problem with editorial boards.
                                          To pretend the media has no
                                          left bias is patently absurd.
                                          So you trot out the totemic evil of
                                          the GOP - the corporations - igoring
                                          the largest constuencies of the Dems,
                                          trial lawyers and unions.  Unlike
                                          the left, I have no delusions about
                                          politicians who 'care' for the little
                                          guy.  I operate from simple principles
                                          extolled by the founders: government
                                          is inherentely evil.
                                          \_I hold it to be self-evident that
                                            you're a fucking idiot.
                                          \_ Lawyers gave more money to Bush
                                             than Gore, and corporations gave
                                             an order of magnitude more money
                                             to republicans than unions gave
                                             to democrats.  -tom
                                             \_ source?  I don't think you
                                                know what you are talking about.
                                                \_ works. Labor
                                                   has given $90m in each of
                                                   the last 2 election cycles.
                                                   Add up the corporate sectors
                                                   and the order of magnitude
                                                   claim holds true.  The site
                                                   groups lawyers and lobyists,
                                                   but on
                                                   his claim again holds true.
                                                   \_ Then how is it that the
                                                      Bush and Kerry campaigns
                                                      have roughlt the same
                                                      amount of money when you
                                                      add in proxy groups such
                                                      as  Got math?
                                            \- making hay out of something like
                                               does BUSH go to his daughters
                                               graduation is silly and probably
                                               deperate partisanship. The AbuG
                                               Show is not a "vast leftwing
                                               conspiracy". Maybe the legit
                                               press has a leftwing bias but
                                               the right uses media as a means
                                               too, eg. the fake press reports.
                                               if you cant tell the difference
                                               between the WP and partisan
                                               hacks, you are simply not use-
                                               ful to talk to. The WP editor
                                               above is hardly Michael Moore.
                                               Why dont you also add "all the
                                               climate scientists are leftwing
                                               freaks, as are development
                                               economists and most law profs."
                                               \_ Well, yes, that would be
                                                  true.  They mostly are.
                        \_ Which is directly opposite of what Rumsfeld has
                            stated this week.  You don't keep up all that well
                            do you...
                            \_ To clarify on what this person just said,
                               Rumsfeld's subordinate said that the Geneva
                               Conventions apply to Iraq (but not Guantanomo).
                               \_ They are bowing to political
                                  expendiency. You can read it
                                  yourself, article 4 is very clear:
                   \_ So, have you read the URL yet?
        \_ Why don't all of you understand?  The geneva conventions applies
           to America only to the extent it protects our soldiers, because
           we are the good guys.  Why we are acting on order of God and
           punishing the bad guys, it does not apply to us.
              \_ Not hard core enough to me.
           \_ Why do you bother writing sarcastic nonsense like this?  You're
              not going to get a real response that will further debate in any
              real way.  Does it make you feel good to spit in the wind?  It's
              just you and the echos when you go off all frothy.
2004/5/21-22 [Uncategorized] UID:30355 Activity:moderate
5/21    Anybody know what happened to the .ORG name servers?
        \_ They've been fucking up for weeks.  Last I saw, they stopped
           passing AA flags with top level requests.
2004/5/21 [Transportation/Car] UID:30356 Activity:nil
5/21    Two related questions: Is there any program or method that allows
        you to scan in an image, and then separate the image into its
        different components/shapes (i.e. if a picture of a car was
        scanned it, it would then separate out the tires, body, etc,
        and give each one a handle that could then be moved around,
        scaled, etc)? Second, is there any relatively inexpensive Windows
        program that allows you to do simple animation? Thanks.
        \_ write one
        \_ This is vision-complete, which is AI-complete.  There are some
           papers on solving some small versions of this problem. -- ilyas
                \_ Thanks, but I'm looking for simple software out there
                   already (if they even exist) to help someone who wants
                   to create some animation.
                   \_ If you find such a program, let me know please, I have
                      some uses for such a program myself. -- ilyas
        \_ closest you can get in non-research sw is "magic wand"
2004/5/21-22 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30357 Activity:nil
5/21    Sen. Inhofe: Taxpayer Funded Radicals Unethical
        Federal Grants Awarded to Environmental NGOs, 1997 -2001
2004/5/21-22 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:30358 Activity:nil
5/21    What is a good windows program for reducing the size (in
        pixels) of all the jpegs in a particular directory?  Irfanview
        does exactly this for an individual jpeg, but I have to do
        each one manually.  I would like to reduce the physical
        size of 1000 pictures to, say, 40% of original size, all
        in one, or even a few, keystrokes.
        \_ ImageMagick mogrify  (I don't know if it does windows)
        \_ I think the poster asked for a "windoz" program.  JPEG Resizer:
           \_ Thanks!
        \_ Irfanview does this too.
           File > Batch > Set Advanced Options > Resize
2004/5/21-22 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:30359 Activity:high
5/21    Yep, and there it is... motdedit + motdedit2 + self righteous morons
        over writing other people's edits "because those other people didn't
        use motdedit like me so it's ok!" and now the motd is an unreadable
        fucking mess.  Can anyone explain to me how all this shit is better
        than when people just edited the damned thing directly or merged new
        edits with their own copy as necessary?  I don't understand how anyone
        can think this current situation is better than before we had all
        these scripts.
        \_ OP here to clarify: I'm saying broken pseudo revision control has
           resulted in a far bigger and unreadable mess than when the only
           rc was people kindly manually merging recent changes back in.  Now
           we have a bunch of pricks who don't bother because they used some
           script or other method that they have self determined to be the one
           true way and thus 1) are still blowing away other people's edits,
           2) don't feel guilty about it, 3) even worse they feel self
           righteously proper destroying other people's edit.  The various
           motdedit scripts also have the problem of mis-merging shit back in.
           There are bad merges.  There are things that *should* have been
           deleted (due to age, etc) that get restored, there are partial dupes
           of threads within other threads.  Motdedit has problems we've all
           seen.  Motdedit2 simply has different problems.  I don't want the
           cowardly censors deleting my shit but I also don't want it munged
           or mis-restored either.  Why can't we all just get along?  It just
           isn't that hard.  Technology will not solve this problem.  It's a
           people problem, not a scripting cleverness problem.  --op
        \_ I don't understand how anyone who has ever worked on shared
           files can think that having no revision control is better than
           having revision control.
           \_ I think the guy is saying that no revision control is better
              than broken revision control.
              \- this is not a technology problem. the problem is the people
                 who delete stuff they dont want to see, or people too lazy
                 to merge stuff. i use emacs to edit the motd and if i get a
                 warning the file has changed, i revery and yank my changes
                 back in. i dont need to use something like motdedit. you
                 cant prevent the write over problem and continue to allow
                 people to "expire" article and anonymity ... at the moment
                 it is expensive to de-anonymize and only possible in the case
                 of automated hosage. i think that is fine. --psb
                 \_ it's not at all expensive to de-anonymize.  You put the
                    file under CVS.  Problem solved.
                    (incidentally, you just blew away one of my posts)   -tom
                                   \-i dont think so. i dont think you
                                       follow how the emacs saving works.--psb
                                       \_ For some reason tom's real paranoid
                                          about people nuking his posts...
                                          probably because he does this so
                                          often himself. -- ilyas
                                          \_ tom?  blowing away other people's
                                             posts?  how can that be?  it seems
                                             impossible that such an open
                                             minded, intelligent, educated, and
                                             all around good guy would do such
                                             a hypocritical and horrid thing.
                                             anonymously, no doubt.  ;-)
                    \- i mean to de-anonymize under the current state of
                       affairs ... where you have to look at lastcomm or
                       idle times and correlate. i think it is maybe useful
                       to have this be expensive. --psb
        \_ just to clarify what motdedit2 does. It NEVER deletes anything. It
           NEVER overwrites other people's post. It NEVER clobbers. Period.
           It will ALWAYS guarantee that motd will either be of the
           same size, or more. Kapeesh??                        -kchang
           \- cat >> also never deletes anything. the point is that there are
              other tools to edit the motd that do delete things and people
              will use them if they are not prevented from doing so [say by
              some suid/sgid thing ... not that i am lobbying for that].--psb
                \_ ah yes, but motdedit2 has a "restore&merge" feature that
                   you can run from time to time that'll 1) ensure that your
                   entry is never deleted 2) ensure that NEW entries are
                   never deleted 3) easy to use with one command line  -kchang
2019/08/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:21 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>