Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:13 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2004/5/13-14 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:30202 Activity:very high
5/12    nCircle is looking for an experienced software engineer.  See
        /csua/pub/jobs/nCircle.sweng
        \_ so I have been doing java, and I still believe I'm an expert
           c/c++ programmer.  However, if you ask me what are
           the printf format parameters, I doubt I could tell you much
           other than %s.  So I can definitely get a book on c/c++ and
           \_ You are not an expert.  You are a fool.  Fortunately, you are
              dangerous only to yourself.
              \_ agree on being a fool part. If you are not making 100k with
                 an expert skill, you are a fool.
                 \_ What expert skill?  Not knowing printf?
                   \_ unless you are working with a company that use printf
                      all day long.  Not every app require printf, some you'll
                      never need it.
           start cramming, but I feel like it's pointless.  It's like
           someone asks me what's the difference between a semaphore and
           mutex, I can't really articulate.  Then when I really start
           doing the kind of work that relates to the topic I can do a
           very good job.  I am bring this up because I want to understand
           in real world how someone like me get around the barrior.  My
           experiences with a few people at companies is that they can tell
           the technicle stuff from cover to cover, but their work is just
           horrible. And they work at extremely slow pace; they don't seem to
           know how to debug their own code; they use the most inefficient
           they use the most inefficient
           algorithms (I would have no problem with that if they can deliever
           quicker which leaves room for optimization).
                \_ I'm in the same boat as you, and have been wondering about
                   this...  Learning/knowing how to learn, instead of just
                   rememebering details...
                   \_ If you need to ask, you should go and study the subject
                      and know the minutiae.  There are people who get by
                      by being brilliant.  You are not one of them.  If
                      you are, you wouldn't be here asking if you need to
                      know something.
           \_ C and C++ are quite different from Java.  The languages all have
              different idioms.  Being an expert in Java does not make you an
              expert in C or C++, even with a cram session.
              \_ All the programming skills are transferable.  I was doing
                all c/c++ programming for 6 years before switching to Java.
                Picked up java without reading a java book.  I all did was
                have the online Java API in my browser.  Now I'm coding with
                struts framework with online references.  In less than a year
                time at the current company I have already developed 3 voice
                applications (come in this company without any voice background
                \_ well, I'd expect going from C or C++ to Java is easier than
                   the other way around.
                   \_ yes, it is.  In essence, Java produce bad programmers
                   because java programmers wouldn't know how to manage
                   memory efficiently, they'll also most likely run into
                   alot of memory leaks when trying code c/c++
                   \_ I think that's silly.  Programmers are not
                      produced by the language.  Bad programmers are
                      bad because they are lazy or dumb or
                      inexperienced, not because they use
                      garbage_collected_language_001. -- ilyas
        \_ you said you are looking for someone who loves coding instead of
           money, does that mean the position will be less than $80K?  There's
           always a balance between love and bread.
                \_ the salary is competitive.  -brian
                \_ anytime they ask for "lots of passion/$" they're implying
                   that they want new, clueless fresh out of college grads
                   who have no idea what they're worth so that they can pay
                   very little for the biggest bang/bucks. Been there,
                   done that, and places like this are usually managed by
                   lame management. In fact, screw the passion. No matter
                   how interesting/challenging the job is and no matter how
                   much passion you have, the job will get boring after
                   4-5 years. The sooner you realize this the better  off
                   you'll be.
                   \_ agree 100%. Been there done that and still there! No
                   matter how productive I am, how much I have offerred, no
                   a sign of appreciation, still counting my clocks.  So I'm
                   also counting clocks.
                   \_ Yep. Hey kids, work your ass off for 12 hour days because
                      you believe in the company! We're all a happy family,
                      work hard but just play harder! Here kid, do this tedious
                      shit that nobody else wants to deal with, you'll learn a
                      lot! Oh hey kid we have to lay you off now, bye.
2004/5/13-14 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:30203 Activity:high
5/13    Crap!  Global Cooling!
        http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA388.html
        \_ Crap! A right-wing think tank position paper posing as science!
           \_ Crap! They have backed up info, what have you got?
              \_ What they have is selective citation of articles
                 to force a statement they want to hear out of research that
                 said something else. This is the right wing noise machine at
                 work. It is a relatively efficient conversion of money into
                 flim flam. -- ulysses
              \_ why are you posting this page from 2/2002 like it's news?
                 And did you actually read the Science article?  It says:
                "the positive imbalance [ice being added to the sheet]
                is driven not by climate-related changes in
                accumulation or melt, but rather by the internal
                ice-stream dynamics that led to the stoppage of Ice Stream C."
                The article is about how ice flows, not climate change.  -tom
                  \_ How do you separate the two??
                     \_ Clearly you didn't read the article, or else you
                        didn't understand it.  -tom
        \_ Global Dimming!
           http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/13/science/13DARK.html
2004/5/13-14 [Reference/Religion] UID:30204 Activity:insanely high
5/13    This is quality:
        http://www.jesus-action-figure.com   -John
        \_ Yeah, quality mocking of over a billion people's religion.
           \_ oh, NOW the motd offends you?
           \_ fuck 'em. http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
              The Catholic church is truly an evil thing. With a brutal
              and intolerant history, it doesn't deserve immunity to criticism.
                 \_ ???
           \_ hey man, I'm catholic and though it's tasteless, it's also
              freakin' hilarious.
              \_ Thank you for censoring the PC crap, so I didn't have to yell
                 at it.
                 \_ ???  I think you're blaming the wrong poster.
                 \_ Restored.  I'm willing to debate with haters.  If you just
                    want to froth and rant you'll be ignored.
              \_ sort of like how it's "ok" to call someone nigger as long as
                 you're black, huh?  Not.  Just because a pseudo-Catholic
                 finds it funny doesn't mean it's "ok".
                 \_ Were you this upset at Buddy Jesus in Dogma?
                 \_ thicken that skin, pal.
                    \_ will you be calling me nigger, next?  you want me to be
                       a thick skinned nigger so you can feel warm and cozy and
                       safe in your little nest of hatred?
                       \_ That you see a parody like that as driven by hatred
                          is really sad.  How would you react to a crucifix
                          in a large vat of urine?
                          link:csua.org/u/7aq
                       \_ Do you have any standing on this issue?  If you're
                          not Catholic, why should you care what jokes
                          Catholics make about themselves?  Just chill out.
                 \_ Red herring.  A non-black calling a black a nigger is
                    evocative of hundreds of years of slavery and institution-
                    alized racism, just as a non-Jew calling a Jew a kike is
                    evocative of anti-Semitism and the sort of thinking that
                    led to the Holocaust.  Catholicism and the general flavors
                    of Christianity are firmly enough established in positions
                    of power and acceptance in the world to be fair game to
                    parody and satire.  You can't be the dominant majority
                    and cry "Discrimination!" every time someone takes a pot-
                    shot at you.
                    \_ Ilya to thread in 5...4...3...
                    \_ Ok, I ll oblige.  You can't justify a 'bad thing'
                       by saying it's done to powerful people.  If it's bad,
                       it's bad all around.  Is putting graffiti on a rich
                       person's car ok?  How about breaking his windows?
                       How about raping his wife? -- ilyas
                       \_ I think it's yet to be shown that the link was in
                          any way discriminatory.
                          \_ So if someone makes a documentary about a lynching
                             of a famous black person in the south, and someone
                             makes some action figures, that would be ok, right?
                              -- ilyas
                             \_ Like this, it would be off color and possibly
                                in poor taste, but it's not discriminatory.
                                If they could manage to make it funny as well,
                                then that's icing.  You may as well get pissed
                                off at Dave Chappelle's show.  Or you can just
                                laugh.  Or you can change the channel.
                                \_ Yeah, try to market an action figure
                                   featuring a black man, a noose, and a tree.
                                   Think for a second, whether this will fly
                                   or not.  You should use your 'but it's not
                                   discriminatory!' defense when the civil
                                   rights people with pitchforks get to your
                                   house. -- ilyas
                                   \_ Package it right, make it clear that it's
                                      parody, and you'll sure as hell find a
                                      market.
                                      \_ Yeah... try it and let us know how it
                                         works out.  Is there explicit
                                         indication the Christian stuff in
                                         the link was parody? -- ilyas
                                         \_ Uh, only the whole site.
                                            \_ Explicit?
                             \_ I want my Ariel Sharon doll with super wall-
                                building action and tree plowing bulldozer!
            \_ Why is this insulting to christians?  Why isn't Gibson making
               gore entertainment out the passion insulting, and in fact
               blasphemous?
           \_ It's only unwise to mock religions that breed suicide bombers
              \_ Isway itway OKway otay ockmay Islamway inway Igpay Atinlay?
                 \_ No way, Jose.  -- Uday & Qusay
2004/5/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS, Computer/Networking, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:30205 Activity:high
5/13    I just got back from a 10 minute talk by Pat Miller, the flash mob
        computing guy, about casual supercomputers.  He spoke in general
        about the flashmob and how it went.  (Another 6 hours and they
        probably could've gotten into the top 500.)  But more
        importantly, how you can have a supercomputer at home.  He booted
        up off the CD available at http://www.flashmobcomputing.org on 4
        chepo machines and got 2 GFlops. With 32 2 Ghz Machines you can
        easily get 48 GFlops.  Right now the CD doesn't run anything but
        LINPACK benchmarks, but people are starting to port their
        applications to it.  -jrleek
        \_ very cool -darin
           \_ me too!!
        \_ To the person who asked how this is any different from SETA@Home:
           The SETI@Home framework is well-suited to applications that do not
           require good interprocess bandwidth or latency.  A large range of
           supercomputing problems DO require both bandwidth and low latency.
           This is the first time someone has tried to build a community
           supercomputer that can be used for a wide range of problems.  The
           top500 list is ranked using LINPACK, which does linear algebra.  If
           you tried runing LINPACK on the SETI network, it would be terrible.
        \_ Is this similar to the XGrid thing hyped by Apple?
           \_ Except you do it with random non-homogenous computers.
              \_ You mean flashmob can connect CPUs other than pentium?
2004/5/13-14 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:30206 Activity:kinda low
5/13    Anti-oursourcing movement: http://tinyurl.com/29paf
2004/5/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:30207 Activity:high
5/13    Solaris Q: a friend needs to run a 32 bit app on a 64 bit solaris
        machine.  Is there a way to figure out which mode the kernel is in,
        and/or to change the mode?  Sorry for the vagueness, I'm just wondering
        if there's a really easy solution.  Thanks
        \_ man isainfo. Note: you can run 32-bit apps on 64-bit solaris.
           You can also easily google this shit.
2004/5/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:30208 Activity:high 50%like:12375
5/13    Is this zoo for real?  (NOT work safe!)
        http://zoo-action.com
2004/5/13-14 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:30209 Activity:very high
5/13    Gore says new movie is about Global warming? isn't it about
        the coming Ice Age (which is the reverse of Global warming?)
        \_ Sounds like you've got it all figured out.  Go buy that
           H2 you've always wanted.
           \_ Nah, fuck the H2.  Go for the M1A1 Abrams.  Radiation hardened
              AND you can just drive over all the other cars in the event
              of a traffic jam.
           \_ Nah, H2 is just an overpriced Chevy.  Go for the original Hummer.
        \_ Gore stated long ago that Earth will become a Greenhouse
           planet like Mercury due to Global warming, but recently he
           changed it to Global warming bringing upon Ice Age earlier
           than usual.
           \_ Sure he did.
        \_ which movie?
          \ "The Day After Tomorrow"
           \_ Mercury is a greenhouse planet?  Mercury has an atmosphere?
              \_ Apparently above poster doesn't know his Venus from his
                 Mercury - and likely not his asshole from his elbow?
        \_ which movie?
           \_ "The Day After Tomorrow"
        \_ Global warming causes the Gulf Stream -- which brings warmth to
           the East Coast -- to stop, causing a premature ice age on both
           sides of the Atlantic.  The science actually shows that the Gulf
           Stream will slow down a little, but will be outweighed by the
           effect of greenhouse gases, i.e., global warming.
                \_ Jet stream flows west to east, dictates east coast
                   weather.
                   \_ You do realize that Gulf Stream != Jet Stream, yes?
                        \_ No I had no idea, living in several parts of
                           east coast for 15 years.  Thanks, and please
                           read the aforementioned comment again.
                           \_ Don't be so defensive, pal -- no insult was
                              intended.
                                \_ I'm not your pal.  Reading
                                   comprehension is a good thing.
                                   \_ So is topical relevancy, numbnuts.
                                      Apparently fools live on the East Coast
                                      also -- some for 15 years or more!
                                        \_ what does "both sides
                                           of the atlantic" mean to you???
                                           Can you find even find Berkeley
                                           on a map?
                                           \_ Are you freaking retarded?  Do
                                              you even know what you're saying?
                                              You can't even post to motd
                                              correctly.
                   \_ I forgot all about geology, but find the above funny.
                   \_ depends on which hemisphere, too?
           \_ "the science"? What do you mean by outweighed?
              The ocean is the biggest factor in temperature regulation,
              more than atmospheric stuff. But the interrelated system is
              not predictable to any precision. The only concensus of sorts
              is that yes, human activities affect global ecosystems and
              climates.
              \_ I mean exactly what I said.  Although it is certainly your
                 right to argue against global warming models.
                 \_ "outweighed" is meaningless without more adjectives. do
                    you mean "the science" says that in spite of a slower
                    gulf stream, east coast/europe would become warmer? this
                    in spite of other science which indicates that warmer
                    atmosphere could cause the gulf stream to go even slower
                    or basically cease etc. So it's not like they're just
                    independent things and "the science" cannot predict
                    exactly what the equilibrium point would be.
                    \_ I think I should just replace "The science shows" with
                       "Many global weather models show".  I think this is
                       better, and perhaps would also satisfy you?
2004/5/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/California, Transportation/Car] UID:30210 Activity:low 53%like:30221
5/13    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040511/480/cajme10205111903
        Price of gasoline a little high for California?
        \_ "Price of gas at a station in Santa Barbara, Calif. Tuesday morning
            May 11, 2004, was $3.11 for full service, 91 octane. It was later
            changed to $3.13."
            Who buys _full service_ gas anywhere?  Premium yes, but full
            service?
            \_ Old people and others who have trouble standing up and walking.
                \_ oregon won't let you pump your own gas
                   \_ OMG, another reason why Oregon sux0rs.
                      \_ And yet they pay less for gas than we do...
                         \_ We should totally invade Oregon and steal all their
                            cheap gas.  Oh wait...
                            \_ w00t!
                   \_ Not a terrible thing in a rainy state.
                      \_ full service in a rainy state is not terrible...
                         *forcing* people to pay for full service is *always*
                         wrong.
                         \_ It's different from full service, it's called mini
                            service. And Oregonians can alway vote to repeal.
               \_ Should these people be trusted behind the wheels?  Don't get
                  hit by them when you're on the sidwalk!
            \_ It's a luxury. People who couldn't give a damn about how much
               it costs to fill the H2 can spend the extra bucks to have
               someone making minimum wage to check their oil, wash their
               windows, and check their tires. Such places exist...
               \_ Most people driving an H2 can't afford full service.
2004/5/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30211 Activity:very high
5/12    The Revolution Will Not Be Blogged
        http://www.mojones.com/commentary/columns/2004/05/04_200.html
        (why blogs suck as political force, basically)
        \_ here's a shock; masturbation sucks as a political force, also.  -tom
           \_ I disagree.  There are a ton of wankers in politics.
              \_ but outside the ASUC, it won't get you elected.  -tom
                 \_ did someone get elected to ASUC for masturbating?
                    \_ Can you prove there is no God?
                       \_ it's a reasonable question, dammit.  tom made it
                          sound like there's a story there, and i want to
                          hear it.
                          \_ I think there was a "Masturbation Party" a few
                             years back.  I don't know if they won.  -tom
                             \_ And I wasn't invited?
                                \_ You were, but you didn't come.
                                \_ You're a founding member.  We signed you
                                   up while you were "busy" pushing your
                                   "political agenda".
        \_ That is what this guy gets for spending all his time reading
           echo chambers. Blogs have already proven to be good fundraising
           tools.
2004/5/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:30212 Activity:low
5/12    Cold Turkey, by Kurt Vonnegut (05/12/04)
        http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0512-13.htm
2004/5/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30213 Activity:moderate
5/13    Leaking self-doubt: How the military outed its own scandal
        http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CA521.htm
        \_ Whatever.  The military was in the middle of conducting an
           investigation and was preparing a PR release when CBS found out
           about it and had to scoop the story to make it look like some
           all purpose military conspiracy to hide the truth.  They were asked
           to hold back on the photos until the military could get their report
           out (roughly 1 week) but this is CBS.  Not exactly the home of good
           journalism.  So some shmucks at CBS played 'gotcha!' and won
           because you can't fight the media on their own turf.  Think CBS is
           going to spend a lot of time highlighting all this?
           \_ How is this not good journalism? Should the media always self
              censor at the request of the government?
2004/5/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30214 Activity:very high
5/12    First Court Martial Defendant Details Prison Abuse
        http://csua.org/u/7aw
        Sivits, who according to sources is expected to plead guilty at a
        court-martial proceeding next week in Baghdad ... maintained,
        according to the documents, that all of this was done without the
        knowledge of their superiors in the Army chain of command. "Our
        command would have slammed us," he said. "They believe in doing the
        right thing. If they saw what was going on, there would be hell to
        pay." ... All the other soldiers are expected to plead not guilty.
        ... But Sivits stressed that it was Graner and Frederick who led the
        small band of guards in their nightly revelries. "I was laughing at
        some of the stuff that they had them do," he conceded. "I was
        disgusted at some of the stuff as well. As I think about it now, I
        do not thing any of it was funny." Asked specifically what was not
        funny, he said, "the tower thing" - referring to prisoners being
        forced to strip and form a pyramid on the floor.
        \_ If they all knew it was wrong, and knew they would get in
           trouble... WHY THE FREAK DID THE PHOTOGRAPHI IT?  How stupid
           can you be?
           \_ yer tellin me (NY Post:)
              "[Pfc. Lynndie England ] was having sex with numerous partners.
              It appeared to be consensual," said a lawmaker who saw the
              photos. And, videos showed the disgraced soldier ... engaged in
              graphic sex acts with other soldiers in front of Iraqi prisoners
              ... "Almost everybody was naked all the time" ... Many members
              of Congress left the 45-minute viewing session early, thereby
              missing the porno performance by England, but there were enough
              other images of torture, humiliation and intimidation to sicken
              anyone. ... Rep. Jane Harman (Calif.), ranking Democrat on the
              House Intelligence Committee, said she was most appalled by a
              video of a handcuffed prisoner beating his head against a wall
              in an apparent bid to knock himself unconscious to escape abuse.
              \_ Having sex with other soldiers on film is stupid but hardly
                 torture by the geneva convention.  Why even bother reporting
                 this?
        \_ This is contradictory to what other accused soldiers claimed.
           Maybe he has been softened up by a plea bargain or other tactics?
           \_ It's also possible that soldiers pleading innocent are just
              trying to get a lighter sentence by claiming it was leadership's
              fault.  It could also be that Rumsfeld / the Pentagon accepted
              only Sivits' story, and ignored everyone else's.
              I sure hope the full investigation resolves this.
           \_ This isn't your sissy civilian court where they are trying to
              get through as many pimps and drug pushers in an hour as
              possible.  The military doesn't need to 'plea bargain' with some
              dip shit junior grade nobody.  The guy isn't even a minor
              officer.  IIRC, he was in the reserves.  Sheesh.  He isn't
              getting off easier in any way by pleading guilty.  There is no
              deal.  Ditch the tinfoil hat.
              \_ Do you think they'll give any of them the death penelty?
                 I'm unfamiliar with current military law, but it seems
                 like the right situation.
2004/5/13-14 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:30215 Activity:high
5/12    SQL question. Let's say I want to perform an outer join, like
        "SELECT a.column FROM a LEFT OUTER JOIN b ON a.column=b.column
         WHERE b.column='hello'"
        and I get a list of column from table a. But the following doesn't
        work where I want to delete all of the rows in a selected by the above:
        "DELETE FROM a LEFT OUTER JOIN b ON a.column=b.column
         WHERE b.column='hello'"
        How do you get around this? Thanks.
        \_ Your select statement is equivalent to
           select a.column from a.column='hello'.
           perhaps you're joining on a different column?
           \_ sorry, yes, all columns are unique, I forgot to make it clear.
              So if they're all unique column how would this be done? ok thx
              \_ You're saying the solution below doesn't work?
        \_ I think you want something more like
           DELETE FROM a WHERE a.col=b.col AND b.col2="hello".
           \_ Wouldn't you need to do
              DELETE FROM a WHERE a.col IN
                (SELECT col FROM b WHERE b.col2='hello')
              -geordan
        \_ why are you left outer joining and then filtering out the stuff
           that don't have a match in b?
2004/5/13-15 [Computer/Theory] UID:30216 Activity:high
5/12    can someone reccomend a numerical analysis text? i never took numerical
        analysis as an undergrad, and i need to solve some heat transfer
        equations numerically.  something that is readable and also a good
        reference would be great.  thanks.
        \_ A common one is "Burden and Faires". There is another equally
           common one I have forgotten but will remember.
           \_ Burden and Faires is the one we used when I TA'd 128a. It may
              be too basic for your needs, and I thought it wasn't a very
              good book in any case. Have you checked Numerical Recipes in C?
              Again, I don't know if it will have anything that applies to
              your specific problem, but is a good reference for lots of
              different things: http://lib-www.lanl.gov/numerical/bookcpdf.html
              \_ There are some errors in NRi* books.  Caveat Emptor.
                 \_ Are you sure?  I was under the impression that they had
                    improved in the 2nd editions.  Granted, much of the
                    research in them is behind the times.
              \_ that's very helpful. thanks!  -op
                 \_ Be careful.  The license for the NR* books is incredibly
                    restrictive.
        \_ afaik, there are no particularly great num analysis texts out there,
           or not in english anyway. burden & faires is okay, but has quite
           a few errors, some in algorithm pseudocode, which can be
           particularly annoying. just something to keep in mind.
        \_ Numerical Recipes in Fortran, Pascal, C, C++, Cobol^H^H^H^H^H
        \_ Fire up Mathematica and plug it in.
2004/5/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:30218 Activity:insanely high
5/13    how does a non-student get into Moffitt?
        \_ by being real sneaky-like...
        \_ Act like you sohuld be there, when asked for ID mention you left
           your wallet at home.  Helps if you have a bag and look student aged.
        \_ join cal alumni. or just ask 'em.
        \_ I believe there are "friends of the library" who have access,
           as well as library cards for non-university folk.  Or just go
           on a tour and cut out to the "bathroom"
        \_ partha is that you?
           \_ psb would have said "how does a non-student get into MOFFITT?"
                                                \- He would have also found some\
 way to fuck up the motd format.
           \_ psb is the librarian!
              \- i can get into any building. i got into an  MIT library by
                 climbing 4 stories up a ventilation shaft. --psb
2004/5/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:30219 Activity:high
5/12    GOD DAMNIT!!! How many hours a week does American Idol have to be on?
        \_ zero, if you turn off your TV.
             \_ That's my strategy, must say, it works for AI, and
                oprah and reality TV shows and all sorts of drivel.
        \_ That show is so stupid.  Why do so many people like it? -troll
                \_ how is that a troll? that show IS stupid.
        \_ Too many.  It was an amusing season 1 idea but now....
        \_ try getting a life.
           \_ How do you suggest that I "get a life"? By watching the that
              stupid show? I already do that involuntarily.
           \_ Yes, all those people who participate in and watch American
              Idol should really get a life.
              \_ Mr. Hung did by doing so.
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:13 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>