Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:09 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/5/9 [Uncategorized] UID:30111 Activity:high
5/9     Buddies turn in Sasser worm creator.  Inquire whether they can receive
        $250K Microsoft reward.  Yay!
        \_ so... i'll write a worm... you be my friend, we split 50/50
           \_ ok, cool... and you'll do the jail time, right?
2004/5/9 [Uncategorized] UID:30112 Activity:nil
2004/5/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:30113 Activity:kinda low
        Why you shouldn't believe every report about terrorist plots uncovered
           \_ At a guess: Because people are always shouting at him?
2004/5/9-10 [Recreation/Travel/LasVegas] UID:30114 Activity:high
5/9     My roomate gambles online 4-5 hours a day. He is really really good
        (he's a pretty smart guy) and says that he actually makes
        money because most of the people who play online are not that
        smart. Here's my question. Say you're smart and can count cards,
        know the statistics, etc, is it REALLY possible to make *consistent*
        money by gambling?
        \_ No, because eventually the casino will decide that they don't want
           to play with you anymore.
        \_ In games like poker, yes.  At least if you make a habit of playing
           against poeple less skilled than you.  And the house doesn't care
           because they are taking a cut no matter who wins.
           \_ You have to choose less-skilled poker players to play against,
              but you also have to cover the house-rake and dealer-tokes(no
              tokes online). You may *win* against other players, but still
              not be able to cover the expenses.  You also have play at the
              proper money-limits (levels) _and_ have the bankroll and
              stomach and discipline to handle it.
              Consistent is probably not the best word, because you have
              to be able to handle the fluctuations -- sometimes you'll have
              a streak of bad luck. You can win in the long-run, but not
              all the time. Very few people can make *real* money at poker,
              even fewer can make it professionally, and do you really want
              that type of lifestyle? How much does your room-mate win?
              If it's only 500 per week, for 40 hours per week online, is it
              *really* worth it? Are you *really* making money, or actually
              losing time that could be used to make *bigger* money elsewhere?
              There's a difference between "winning" at poker and
              "making money" at poker.
                \_ what about those famous MIT kids who got kicked out of
                   Vegas forever cuz they won too much $?
                   Makes me want to be a math major at MIT
                   \_ Big difference between BJ and Poker, but both
                      can be beaten. When I was in college we tried the
                      card-counting thing but (1) it's quite a bit of
                      hard work and long hours and (2) it takes a bankroll
                      which we didn't have. My friend got banned from
                      one casino just because he was joking around saying
                      he was keeping track of how many Aces were left.
                      It's not enough edge to win, but it pissed off the
                      pit-boss enough to say he "wasn't welcome anymore"
2004/5/9-10 [Recreation/Travel/LasVegas] UID:30115 Activity:insanely high
5/9     Must see on History Channel today, 9-11pm:
        "They were "Whales"--the highest of high rollers. Treated like
        royalty by casinos worldwide, they won millions throughout the early
        to mid-1990s. And nobody had a clue that they were MIT students, part
        of an underground blackjack team--card counters who used mathematical
        wizardry to win. This is the true story of the rise and fall of the
        MIT Blackjack Team, featuring interviews with Ben Mezrich, author of
        "Bringing Down the House", casino executives, security experts, and
        actual members of the team."
        \_ So they cheated and won alot of money?
           \_ nope, they were just smart.  very smart.  card counting, for
              instance, is not illegal in NV, but casinos are private
              businesses and can ask you to leave for any reason.
           \_ yes, they won a lot of money.
           \_ They did not cheat; they just counted cards.
                \_ They signalled to each other... thats cheating.
                   \_ I don't understand how you can say counting cards
                      is not cheating and signalling is cheating.  Neither
                      or both.  Both will get you kicked out if the casino
                      thinks you're making too much money off it.
                        \_ Counting cards is not cheating; it's just playing
                           wisely. Signalling involves breaking the rules.
                           Casinos, though, don't like either one, so they'll
                           kick you out for doing either.
                           \_ Okay, I want to know where it says signalling,
                              is illegal when playing blackjack in Las Vegas.
                              especially as applied to team card-counting,
                              is cheating when playing blackjack in Las Vegas.
                              \_ I believe it's something to the extent of
                                 blackjack being a game of an individual (or
                                 several) against the house.  The house is
                                 playing each person separately.  I don't know
                                 the exact maths of who has an advantage, but
                                 signalling turns it into a team-vs-the-house
                                 game, while simple card counting keeps it at
                                 an individual level.  -John
                                 \_ Card counting is not illegal. Signalling is
                                    not illegal. Barring counters and others
                                    from a casino in Nevada is also not illegal
                                    (non-disciminationary removal of persons).
                                    However, it is illegal to bar counters in
                                    Atlantic City. The reason is Nevada is very
                                    pro-casino, New Jersey isn't. Follow the $.
                                    Signalling the whale just a way of avoiding
                                    the casino from seeing a counter. Instead
                                    of a single player using spread bets (ie.
                                    betting more they are favored), a whale
                                    betting more when they are favored), whale
                                    comes, bets big, and leaves when the
                                    counter/signaller notes the count has gone
                                    against the players. Nice technique.
                                    \_ ObNitpick:  I never said "illegal".
                                    \_ Thanks, that's what I thought.
                                       Like you said, card counting and
                                       "team card-counting" is not illegal,
                                       but casinos are private businesses,
                                       so they can refuse doing business with
                                       you for any reason (short of the
                                       discrimination exception).
                                       \_ Any arrests you might see are barred
                                          counters making multiple returns to
                                          a casino. Then the casino can cry
                                          "trespassing." In AC, card counting
                                          is allowed, BUT the casino has the
                                          right to reshuffle between hands
                                          (ruining the count) or changing the
                                          min/max bet possible (changing the
                                          risk/reward for counter). Fun stuff.
                   \_ Signalling *is* cheating. If you do not think so
                      then place a call on your cell while playing. The
                      reason is that people have used computers to count
                      the cards and the partner will signal the result of
                      the computer. Counting cards is not cheating in
                      itself, but using a computer is. Imagine a parallel
                      to chess.
                      \_ Signalling is not illegal. The whole phone thing is
                         to prevent possible communication between players and
                         spotters (see movie Casino for example). It also slows
                         up the game and is irritating. Computer use is just
                         counting on a different level. You can use it instead
                         of keeping a count in your head/chips or have it use
                         several different counting systems and then the user
                         decide which one to use. But definitely not illegal.
                         The only thing which is illegal is when dealers and
                         players collude to win. That's fraud.
                                \_ It's really not worth debating. Whether
                                   or not it's illegal is irrelevant; if
                                   for any reason the casino doesn't like
                                   how you play, you're out of there.
                                   \_ Of course it matters. There is a big
                                      difference from being thrown out of
                                      a casino and being thrown in jail.
                        \_ It is *not* legal to use a computer. Nevada
                           Senate Bill 467 (passed in 1985) says:
                           "It is unlawful for any person at a licensed
                           gaming establishment to use, or possess with
                           the intent to use, any device to assist in
                           projecting the outcome of the game." The
                           penalty for a first offense is 1-10 years in
                           prison, a $10000 fine, or both. A second
                           offense includes mandatory imprisonment.
        \_ I'm into 20 min into the show. It's a #*&*($# enterprise! 20-30
           really really smart MIT students, backed by investors and
           management. Math majors, computer scientists, etc, you name
           it. Man I want to start a UCB gambling team now.
           \_ cool, please post on the motd if you start a team
              \_ useful fact: canada's casinos are largely government run
                 and have a *much* more lenient attitude towards counting.
                 a friend of mine's math professor from a Canadian university
                 made a consistently decent amount of money each year counting.
                 \_ Yeah, but then you're betting with Canadian money, and we
                    all know how much that's worth.
        \_ There was a write-up on these guys in Wired about a year back.
           \_ Yeah, that was a pretty sweet article.  For those of you like
              me who missed the show, they'll show it again this Saturday at
2004/5/9-10 [Computer/Rants] UID:30116 Activity:very high
5/9     If Bill Gates designed buildings instead of software:
           What does Bill Gates have to do with anything?  Microsoft may
           produce bug-filled software with some ill-conceived features, but
           they don't do avant garde nonsense.
           \_ both have bad design and the name william h. gates.
        \_ That actually looks like a very cool building. I wish Gates
           would design buildings.
           \_  you like?
                \_ Again, yes, I do. It's refreshing to see unique and
                   and unusual building designs. Let me guess, you hate
                   it for those very reasons. right?
                   \_ it looks like something out of a demented dr. seuss
                      fantasy. it isn't exactly cool, just interesting in
                      a bizarre psychopathic way.
                   \_ No, I like interesting buildings, but this is the
                      worst design I have ever seen. I cannot imagine
                      people working in that space without going insane or
                      becoming very unhappy. I have heard that people are
                      already getting lost in this building. Have you ever
                      heard of Feng Shui?
                      \_ I can't help but be reminded of that Dilbert strip
                         where PHB's secretary convinced him the computer fan
                         was killing him.  The fact that people take Feng Shui
                         seriously makes me sad. -- ilyas
                         \_ There are enough buyers who care about Feng Shui
                            that it seems to have an effect in certain Bay
                            Area housing markets.  When I was house shopping
                            in Foster City, houses with obviously bad Feng
                            Shui were selling at a discount (of 10% by my
                         \_ A lot of "bad feng shui" is generally annoying
                            even if you don't care about that kind of stuff.
                            For instance having a house at the head of a T
                            intersection sucks no matter what.
        \_ This building has bad Feng Shui.
        \_ NERDS!!!
2004/5/9-10 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:30117 Activity:nil
5/9     In gcc how do you force a binary to be build even though there are
        undefined references, which you know will never be called during
        runtime? ok thx
        \_ That's normally a linker setting - for instance on Solaris, using
           native ld (not gnu ld), you'ld want the -z nodefs flag passed to
           the linker during the link phase (and probably -z lazyload so it
           doesn't complain when you try to run it).  I don't know the GNU ld
           flag.  -alan-
        \_ from the archive:
        What's the flag to gcc that will ignore "undefined reference"?
        \_ isn't this an error and not a warning?  how can you ignore it?
          \_ well if you know a symbol is never referenced then you can
             get away with it. I did the same thing with ctwm. I forgot
             which flag you use for linking and ignore symbol not found,
             I just rtfm but I can't seem to find it anymore.
             \_ you can fake an empty definition
        \_ This is standard behavior on VM.  I didn't know you can do this on
2004/5/9-10 [Science/Disaster] UID:30118 Activity:high
5/9     Why "10.5" is a load of horseshit:
        \_ did you actually believe the events that occurred in the movie?
           or did you think we did?
           \_ Of course not.  I just found the link amusing.
              \_ Some very interesting earthquake facts.  Thanks for the
        \_ Wait, someone actually watched that mini-series?
           \_ I wish I did now, just so I could better get all the parodies.
2004/5/9-10 [Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30119 Activity:moderate
5/9     Sometimes I need to upload large files on my 1500k/192k aDSL. This
        totally kills my Internet usability. Is there any uber cool BSD/Darwin
        tool that will let me throttle a particular socket? If I could just
        limit my FTP to something like 128k... tnx
        \_ rsync --bwlimit=KBPS ...
        \_ man ipfw
        \_ cstream:
2004/5/9-10 [Uncategorized] UID:30120 Activity:nil
5/9     RIP Alan King.
        \- Thom Gunn -> dead. --psb
2004/5/9-10 [Uncategorized] UID:30121 Activity:nil
        Zombies rule.
        \_ Brilliant.  Can't wait for the US release.
2019/01/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:May:09 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>