4/28  Is it safe to rlogin/ssh to a FreeBSD computer and do a "make
      installworld" to upgrade?  Or must this be done in single user
      mode with the computer off the net? I have a rackmount machine
      to upgrade.  I am trying to avoid putting console on it.
        \_ It's doable, but you should:
           1. double check that mergemaster will bring up sshd
           2. make sure your enet driver works and is installed correctly
           3. be on location for the reboot, just in case.
        \_ Do you have another machine with a free serial port? If so,
           I would enable serial console on the machine you want to
           upgrade, and then connect to it on serial console using
           minicom (or whatever) from the other machine. This way you
           can bring the system down to single user, do the upgrade and
           debug the result without a console.

4/29    If you had a choice between two cars that were identical in every
        way but the engine and one had a forced-induction 1.8L engine
        while the other had a naturally aspirated 2.6L engine with a
        lower peak power output, which one would you choose?
        \_ The larger, lower-power engine.  You usually won't need the power
           and there's less to go wrong with it.

4/29  http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167
      I was pro to ambivalent on the death penalty. I happened
      across the link below and it makes a compelling argument against
      it. Thought I should share. -saarp
        \_ Measuring frequencies does not tell you cause and effect.  I have
           pointed this out many times before. -- ilyas
         \_ I understand. However it seems like they have noticed this
            same correlation in many places. Overall, I don't think you
            can discount their point. -saarp
           \_ I understand. However it seems like they have noticed this same
              correlation in many places. Overall, I don't think you can
               that death penalty does not cause higher crime rates. -- ilyas
              discount their point. -saarp
      \_ This does not convince me. There are people in this world who
         deserves the death penalty and nothing less.
                \_ Sure I can.  I don't accept these as evidence that death
                   penalty is not a crime deterrent, because these do not show
                   that death penalty does not cause higher crime rates.  In
                   fact, it seems quite intuitive that death penalty WOULD
                   serve as a deterrent, which is all the more reason to look
                   very carefully at how this data could come to be. -- ilyas
                   \_ The burden of proof is on those who want to execute
                      people. Your intuition is irrelevant, especially since
                      it is contradicted by all kinds of criminology research
                      about why people do or do not observe the laws (not
                      just relating to the death penalty).
                      \_ The burden of proof is on those who want to change
                         an existing law.  You are implying that killing people
                         is always wrong, which is not a self-evident truth.
                         If you have some relevant research to share about
                         why death penalty is in fact not a cause for lower
                         crime rates, please do speak up, post links, etc.
                         Saarp's links are interesting, but don't qualify for
                         reasons I stated already.
                           -- ilyas
                         \_ That's funny.  I'd have thought the burden of
                            proof would be on those who want to kill people.
                            \_ If you feel any killing is wrong, then you can
                               feel this way without contradiction.  Otherwise
                               no, because killing in self-defense, for
                               instance, may be ok.
                        \_ The url that started this whole thread is on
                           precisely this issue. Maybe you should read it.
                           And I find it particularly mystifying that someone
                           who purports to believe in small government would
                           support such an expensive (not to mention morally
                           bankrupt) policy, with no evidence that it is
                           effective, just because it happens to be
                           "existing law."
                           \_ I believe in Old Testament morality, for things
                              like murder, rape of children, and so on.
                              It is true that the death penalty introduces a
                              dilemma alluded to below regarding innocents
                              dying vs guilty going free.  Every law student is
                              quite familiar with it.  I don't have a
                              satisfying argument to it, nor does anyone else.
                              If you believe no murderer should die for his
                              crimes, I claim your belief is immoral.  If you
                              disagree, then we have a morality clash, and in
                              a democracy it is resolved by the majority.
                              If you don't like democracy, like me, help me
                              think of something better, otherwise buck up and
                              live with it.  Regarding my libertarianism, I
                              don't think running prisons really needs to be
                              as expensive as it is.  Also, unlike anarchists,
                              I am prepared to spend money to maintain human
                              \_ So on the question of evidence, you reject
                                 copious evidence that the death penalty does
                                 not act as a deterrent because it is not 100%
                                 solid proof, while offering absolutely no
                                 evidence of the contrary. And then you use the
                                 "we're a democracy, so the majority rule"
                                 cop out, which could just as easily be used
                                 to avoid a rational debate of what is sensible
                                 public policy on any other issue as well. I'll
                                 have to remember that one.
                              rights, including enforcement.  -- ilyas
                              \_ uh, old testament morality? you think we need
                                 stoning? how about splatting goat blood around
                                 and making pleasing barbequeues for the Lord?
                   \_ If executions were held publicly, I could buy that
                      the death penalty would seem quite intuitively to be
                      a deterrent.  This is not the case at the moment.
                      \_ People aren't children.  You don't need to see
                         something in front of your nose for it to be a
                         deterrent. -- ilyas
        \_ Holy shit its saarp back from the dead!!!!111!
           \_ Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated. -saarp
        \_ Can someone give me a link to the information on how it's more
           expensive to execute a prisoner than to keep them for 60 years?
           \_ Keeping a prisoner is a small incremental cost added on to a
              prison you already are running.  Death penalty cases require
              tons of extra police and legal work.
              http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7
                -tom
        \_ It costs about $20k/year per prisoner in a non-death row situation
           in CA.  I'm guessing it costs more to hold someone on death row
           but probably not too much more.  If some clown is in prison for
           50 years, thats 1 million bucks.  It's likely that after multiple
           appeals, court costs, etc, that executing someone is more costly.
           However, I don't think justice should be based on raw bean counting.
           If society has determined that death is the right punishment for
           some crime *and* the trial, etc, was fair/just, then execution is
           the correct punishment IMHO even if the raw dollar value cost is
           higher to do so.
           \_ I agree completely!!
           \_ what do you say to the dozens of people for whom society
              determined that "death is the right punishment," who later
              were released from death row when they turned out to be
              \_ No system is perfect.
                 \_ Exactly, and a system where that imperfection results in
                    innocent people being murdered should be avoided.
              innocent?  -tom
           \_ I do think that some people need to be put down like mad dogs.
              I just don't have faith in the system as it stands to try each
              case fairly and with the greatest possible scrutiny.  It would
              help if the prosecution could go for the death penalty but then
              have that turned down in favor of life w/o parole if the jury
              so decided.
           \_ I don't care that much about people who actually commited the
              crimes they were convicted of.  Executing murderers does not
              bother me or give me the warm fuzzies.  The problem is that there
              is no way to make sure the person you're executing is actually
              guilty, so it's inevitable you will execute innocent people.  To
              me, that is much worse, as it is a premeditated, state-sanctioned
              murder.  I think it's much better to let a thousand murderers
              escape execution than for the state to murder one innocent
              person. - dgies
              \_ I see your point. To me, the need of the many
                 outweighs the needs of the few/one. To save the 1 that
                 may be wrongly executed, we run the risk of letting free
                 hundreds of committed murders who will not hesitate to
                 go out and murder more innocent lives. What do you say
                 to those people who will be killed by those convicted
                 murderers? Where's their justice? You can say they will
                 never get out, just like I can say we will never make a
                 mistake.
                 \_ Where did I say let them out?  They should be sentenced to
                    life in prison.  If they're guilty, they can rot there.  If
                    they're innocent, they can work to exhonorate themselves
                    and in any case, jailing an innocent person is better than
                    killing them. -dgies
                    \_ dgies, you just fell for a classic straw man argument.
                       \_ Actually, he did a fine job of recognizing it and
                          disarming it.
                       \_ I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he might
                          have misread 'escape execution' as me saying let them
                          out. -dgies
                       \_ How about this, if someone tries to kill
                          you, and you kill him in self defense, it's
                          considered ok. But, if the person succeeds in
                          killing you, then too bad, even in the worst
                          scenario, he will still be able to eat, breath,
                          walk, and exercise, for the rest of his long
                          life while you decay into nothingness?
                          \_ That's right, there are no justice for
                          those who are dead. We don't care about
                          them. It's a tough world out there, you
                          shouldn't get yourself killed in the first
                          place. And you shouldn't trust the state to
                          do justice for you either. Don't get
                          yourself killed.
        \_ I haven't read the link but even I'm moving away from
           pro-death-penalty.  The three reasons I am/was for it are:
           1) Convict can't escape/be released from prison if he's dead
           2) Family doesn't have to deal with media interviews in prison with
           the convice if he's dead.
           3) Prosecutors can get more info from defendant on a plea bargain
           from death penalty to life in prison.
           The poster-child for #1 is Robert Lee Massie.  VH1's music behind
           bars was part of #2, and there are various examples for #3.
           However, with "life without parole" as an option, I can't really be
           behind the death penalty anymore (with the exception for
           terrorists, oh and mass murderers).  -emarkp
           \_ Terrorists?  What makes them special?
           \_ So how do we judge who to apply the death penalty to?
              You are saying we abandon death penalty, except when we are
              really pissed about someone, we make an exception. This is
              not law, its lawlessness. If you support this, then you
              actually do support the death penalty.
              \_ Yeah, you're right.  I guess I still support it. -emarkp
           \_ I used to be 100% anti-death penalty, but I have decided
              that in extreme cases where the very existence of the person
              threatens civil order, I am for it. Saddam Hussein being a good
              example. Pol Pot, if he had been captured alive would have
              been another. I admire the Peruvians for not executing Guzman,
              but I think they should have. -anon motd liberal
              \_ Liberals are scary. -- ilyas
                 \_ WATCH OUT ILYAS, THE LIBUHRULS ARE COMING TO DRAG YOU BACK
                    TO SOVIET RUSSIA! FLEE, DOGGY, FLEE!
              \_ How does Saddam's existence threaten Civil Order? That's a
                 pretty tenuous contention.
                 \_ Too many people want to kill him.
                 \_ I think he was talking about GWB
                    \_ I think it's a good policy. ML King threatened civil
                       order. So does Kerry, in a way. I think things would
                       be much more orderly under fascism.

4/29    This isn't even mentioned on the CNN front page, and the eight troops
         dying is in the story's ninth paragraph.
      CNN:  "Elsewhere in Iraq, eight U.S. troops died in a car bombing
        Thursday and two others were killed in separate incidents, according
        to the U.S. military."
      What you can do is compare how it's handled on other news sites.
        \_ it was earlier this morning, when I first checked the news on
           http://cnn.com (~8am PDT)
           \_ Come to think of it, yesterday a front-page CNN article was
              titled, "Iraqis believe war did more harm than good", and by
              evening, it was, "Iraqis believe war did more harm than good,
              but think it was worth it."  What is going on over there, anyway?
        \_ This is one of the major problems with the 24 hour news cycle
           cnn runs on.  If you're ever had headline news running in the
           background while working on something, you'll notice the same
           thing.  Stories slip over the course of the day.  This is why
           newspapers won't die. --scotsman
           \_ So why is it that http://washingtonpost.com and http://nytimes.com, which do
              also maintain 24-hour news sites, do feature the eight U.S.
              troops killed in car bomb story prominently on their web sites?
              \_ "why newspapers won't die..."
                 \_ I'm saying that this news is not even half a day old,
                    and has not even made it to their print editions.  Yet,
                    for some reason the news is covered differently by
                    them than at CNN in this particular instance.
                  In fact, the http://cnn.com reporting today is on F/A-18s
                  dropping bombs, and the coverage yesterday or the day before
                  that was on AC-130s killing > 100 Iraqis (mostly insurgents).
                  I've been noticing a trend of CNN not reporting deaths
                  as prominently, and more on the effectiveness of
                  U.S. military power.
                  It was way, way obvious today, because 8 U.S. troop deaths
                  from a single car bomb is a very rare event, and yet it
                  is not covered well on http://cnn.com today.
                  Also note that I am not saying that this is right or wrong,
                  but I am first trying to establish whether this is an
                  accurate description.

4/28  GOP'ers:  How does the party's platform on Native Americans jibe with
      the current California initiative to tax the Indian casinos?
      http://csua.org/u/743 (GOP Platform, search for Native Americans)
        \_ Uh... 100%?  I see no problem with taxing those doing extremely
           well with their casinos.  The poor tribes (those without casinos)
           get almost nothing from the rich tribes.  I can go on at some
           length on the topic but really I don't see any non-jibing.  How
           much do you really know about tribes in CA vs. tribes in other
           states and exactly what we owe or do not owe any of them?  What do
           you really know about the rich vs poor tribes, conditions on the
           different reservations or anything else?  You need to pick a topic
           you're much better informed about if you want to poke a stick in
           someone's eye and make some trolling motd political points.
           \_ GOP Platform says:
              "Political self-determination and economic self-sufficiency
               are twin pillars of an effective Indian policy." and
              "High taxes and unreasonable regulations stifle new and
               expanded businesses and thwart the creation of job
               opportunities and prosperity."
              Explain to me how taxing Indian casinos jibes with these two
              planks of the GOP platform.  And you can take your ad hominem
              and shove it up your ass.
              \_ ITYM "jives"
               \_ dict jive
                  dict jibe
                  you are incorrect.

4/28    Playtested "Shinteki" last weekend. Day-long puzzle-road-rally event.
        Well run and should be lots of fun for both experienced players
        and folks who haven't done something like this before.
        http://www.shinteki.com (May 8, 15, or 22).   -jowens
        \_ This sounds like fun, but I'd like to know more.  Could you do
           a write-up on your experience?  ok, tnx
           \_ Well, that would be kind of giving away the whole thing, since
              what I playtested is exactly what it will be like. Here's a
              writeup of another one from the same group that's running
              Shinteki (in Las Vegas, and more elaborate of course):
              http://csua.org/u/744   Let me know if you want more info.

4/28    Since when does an act of Congress trump a Constitutional Amendment?
        How does giving the President War Powers somehow negate the Sixth
        Amendment?
        http://csua.org/u/742 (Bill of Rights, in case you need a refresher.)
        \_ That's your big gripe?  I'm more concerned with the 16th and the
           abuse which created our socialist system.
           \_ Impressive.  In two lines, you changed the subject from the
              president and congress subverting the constitution to how the
              constitution itself infringes on your freedoms.  I give 9/10.
           \_ Nice non sequiteur.  Go back to http://freerepublic.com.
              \_ It is completely on topic.  Just because my sub-topic was
                 more interesting and has a greater effect on the people of
                 this country is no reason to get jealous.
                 \_ bad troll, no cookie.
                    \_ clueless child, see discussion below that you're
                       incapable of understanding.
           \_ The President is being given the right to jail anyone who
              disagrees with him without a trial, and the press is being
              warned not to criticize the Administration, but you think
              Income Tax and socialism are the real evils?  Well, hold on to
              your hat, liebchen, because Socialism and Fascism are about to
              unite in a big way here.
              \_ Yes, income tax was the beginning of training people that the
                 Federal Government was Big Daddy and we all had to do what
                 Daddy says and Daddy will take care of us.  If it wasn't for
                 generations of brainwashing your issue wouldn't exist because
                 no one in government would even dare propose such a thing. But
                 now that everyone is properly trained and/or cowed by the
                 truly enormous power of the FG through illegal taxation, the
                 things you're seeing now are easily swallowed by an ill
                 educated, mindless, government created socialist system.  You
                 sound as though you think we were free until after 9/11.  We
                 haven't been free since before your grand father was born.
                 \_ So tell us how YOU would have paid for WWI.  We're waiting.
                    \_ why are you letting this guy change the subject, which
                       is Bush's abuse of executive power, and the Supreme
                       Court's acceptance of that abuse?
                 \_ Okay, cool, I'll grant you your point.  Now, before we
                    succumb more inextricably to the twin evils of socialism
                    fascism, let's pool our resources to prevent the Pres.
                    being granted the ability to rescind the 6th Amendment,
                    and limit Congress' ability to grant him that power.
                 \_ The next time you have a medical problem, you can curse
                    socialism all the way to the hospital because you used
                    a government funded 911 service.  Do wacko libertarians
                    really want to go back to an era of no government services?
                    You do know that a lot of the infrastructure you depend on
                    is built and maintained by the government, right?
                    \_ obThePrivateSectorCouldDoItBetter
                 \_ The Rich have always been free. The poor have always
                    been in chains.
        \_ It's quite simple, really.  If you haven't been charged with a crime
           the sixth amendmant doesn't apply.  If you're in Guantanamo, you're
           simply suspected of being a prisoner of war.  Since they're being
           held by the military in time of war, the protections of the fifth
           amendmant don't apply.  You simply don't appreciate the lengths this
           administration is willing to go to to protect your freedom.
           \_ Ignorance is Strength!

4/28  Has anyone heard anything more about the foiled Jordan Terror
      attack?
      http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005016
        \_ Nope.  They haven't finished tying iraq and al qaueda together
           with it.  When they do, you'll hear it loud and clear.
        \_ Get your BushCo sponsored WSJ crap off the motd!  Only papers that
           agree with my agenda such as the NYT, LAT, and Village Voice carry
           any weight around here!

4/29    All right, who's editing with the wrong tab settings?
        \_ ED!  ED IS THE STANDARD!

4/29    If you had a choice between two cars that were identical in every
        way but the engine and one had a forced-induction 1.8L engine
        while the other had a naturally aspirated 2.6L engine with a
        lower peak power output, which one would you choose? On a side
        note, this is between a Mercedes C230 and C240 which I'm helping
        someone else buy (I personally wouldn't buy one myself).
        \_ The larger, lower-power engine.  You usually won't need the power
           and there's less to go wrong with it.  I know you said "identical"
           but if there's a mileage difference, that'd be very important.
           \_ [formatd was here]
        \_ I agree with the above.  Especially in the Bay Area you're just not
           going to use the tiny bit of extra power the snazzier engine
           provides.  The buyer should drive both and get the one that feels
           the best in normal driving conditions (within their price range,etc)
           \_ yeah. just drive both and see if there's a difference in power,
              and which one is smoother/noisier. then look at price and MPG.
        \_ There are a lot more differences between the C230 and C240 than the
           engines! One is a little 3-door and the other is a sedan. The
           prices are much different. One weighs more than the other. All
           else being equal, stay away from a turbo engine if you plan on
           keeping the car. If I was to get a C class I'd go C320.
           \_ That's not completely true. There is both a C230 sedan and
           keeping the car. If I was to get a C class I'd go C320.
           \_ That's not completely true. There is both a C230 sedan and
              coupe. The coupe looks pretty ugly. Also, the C230 isn't
              a turbo. It's supercharged.
              \_ What does "superchanged" mean?
                 \_ It means the induction is powered with a belt from the
                    engine rather than just by exhaust gases. The
                    distinction is minor in this discussion. I also stand
                    corrected and there is now a C230 sedan. There used to
                    be one in the 1990s and it was discontinued in favor
                    of the C240. I see that it has been brought back.
        \_ The one that has better gas mileage.  C230:23/30, C240:19/24.  The
           C240 does worse mileage than my mini-van.
              coupe. The coupe looks pretty ugly.
        \_ The one that has better gas mileage.

4/29    FYI, http://washingtonpost.com was the only place that had details on the
        eight U.S. troop deaths due to car bomb.  What happened was that
        this was an Army group dedicated to disarming IEDs.  While they were
        working on a road south of Baghdad, a station wagon drove up and
        exploded, killing eight U.S. soldiers and wounding four more.  Sucks.

4/29    Will Chateau finally go the way of Barrington? [restored]
        http://csua.org/u/748
        \_ Finally?  It was very Barringtonesque a long time ago, just much
           quieter about it.  Then Cloyne follows.
           \_ Well sure, but what I meant was, will the lawsuit shut it down?
              That's how Barrington got closed - the neighbors sued, and the
              USCA closed the house rather than deal with the lawsuit.
              \_ Is George Proper still around?  If GP is still the general
                 manager then it is just a matter of time until the whole
                 place wears down and implodes.
              \_ It is quite a bit more complicated than that, but it
                 started with a lawsuit, yes. My guess is that the USCA
                 will knuckle under to the nieghbors demand for a manager.
                 On a similar topic, did you know the the USCA will take
                 over control of Barrington again in just 17 more years?
           \_ Cloyne may be dirty and chaotic, but we're generally pretty good
              about not pissing off the neighbors (Goldman School excluded).
              \_ Is that why the UC is requiring a full time house manager
                 before they will renew the contract with the USCA?
                 \_ I thought that was Casa Z.
                    \_ Nope, it's the CLO

4/29    If you could go back in time, what age would you relive?
        \_ My 21st birthday was my first time with 2 girls.  I'd relive that
           a few times.
           \_ Did you manage to satisfy both of them to orgasms?
        \_ The best is yet to come.
           \_ And babe, won't it be fine.
        \_ 1998, I will do whatever I need to work for google,
           even as a janitor. :)
        \_ 1993.  I'd've drunk more and invested every spare cent in Dell.
           Then I'd cash out in '98 after a 29,000% increase.
        \_ 1994.  I should've stuck my cock into that cute chick's pussy
           after finger-fucking her to orgasm.  She would've been my first
           woman.
        \_ 1984.  I must terminate Sarah Connor.
           \_ Oh u the best!!

4/29    Vote for your csua man of the award, I'll start:
        \_ closest to a divinity man: psb
        \_ grouchy old man: tom
        \_ tallest man: erikred
           \_ :) --erikred
        \_ most bitter man: bdg
        \_ most squishable man: kinney, paolo
                \_ paolo made great changes and contributions to csua,
                   why is he the most squishable?               -paolo #1 fan
                   \_ writing a script to delete the MOTD every 3 minutes is
                      a great contribution?
                   \_ being a twat?
        \_ most riced boy: dickylee
        \_ best motd troll: ausman
           \_ how do you know ausman is a troll?
              \_ Ve haff our ways.
           \_ ilyas
              \_ best != most prolific.
              \_ I find this interesting, since the only threads I start are
                 CS puzzle threads.  How can I be a troll if I never start
                 troll threads?  If I should be guilty of anything, it's
                 responding to trolls. -- ilyas
        \_ best mormon: emarkp [restored]
           \_ what makes one qualify as 'best mormon'?
              \_ He's good enough, he's smart enough, and goshdarnit, people
                 like him!
                 \_ Drat.  I was hoping for grouchy old man. -emarkp
           \_ The sad part is, I can't even argue with this award. -jrleek
        \_ most likely to get his ass kicked: dans
           \_ Been there, done that. -dans
        \_ most hoping for grouchy old man: emarkp
           \_ Yes! -emarkp
        \_ cocktease: aspolito
        \_ best motd locker: williamc
           \_ ED!

4/29    Google files for IPO.
        \_ Yeah thanks for the hot tip.  Is the sky blue too?

4/29    What do you think of an engineering themed / hacker house?
        http://www.livejournal.com/users/nibot/175102.html
        --tobin
        \_ Doesn't Cloyne already qualify?

4/29    You too can support North Korean Freedom!
        http://www.nkfreedom.org/nkfa.html
        \_ Where can I buy portraits of the Great Leader?
        \_ Meanwhile, Blizzard just released a new patch for Starcraft, and
           millions of South Koreans rejoice.
           \_ Pfft. Starcraft, hah.  Now, when they release the next Lineage
              mod, then you'll see dancing in the streets of Seoul

4/29    I've become addicted to the motd and can't get any work done, what
        should I do???
        \_ Welcome to the club.
        \_ go on craigslist to ask for help
        \_ get yourself squished?
        \_ go to http://csua.com and read only
           the categories you're interested at. Skip everything in
           Politics (mostly trolls) and you'll be fine.

4/29    I just got invited to gmail, and FUCK all the names are taken already!
        Anyways, has anyone tried the archive feature yet? I don't have enough
        mails to say whether it's good or not.
        \_ How do you get invited to gmail? what do i need to do to qualify?
        \_ That 6 character minimum for a login bites.
        \_ Try analsex, buttboi, oralsex. When I got my account, those were
           all still available.
        \_ they 'reserved' anything with profanity in it, i haven't
                tried other languages, i couldn't get 'whitepower' - danh
           \_ Is uttbay_iratepay still available?
        \_ is linus.torvalds taken? Get that and post to linux.kernel.
           \_ you're so clever!

4/29    How do I make less recognize my HOME and END key?
        My Home key is [1~, does it matter whether I use tcsh/bash? thx.
        \_ you can do man lesskey. put the following in a file and run lesskey
           on it. This only makes it work for line edit, u figure out the rest:
           #line-edit
           \e[1~ home
           \e[4~ end
           It's not up to tcsh or bash. By the way, for general reference, one
           of the issues with getting keys to work properly is that the xterm
           program has bugs. It's really a pile of shit program.

4/29    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/29/1083224523783.html
        US Troops torturing Iraqi prisoners.
        \_ Been there, done that, *and* have them on trial right now which
           is why you know about it.
        \_ eh, the article doesn't mention "torture" not even once
           abuse of prisoners, yes, and they should be punished for it, and
           it's a shame, and it reflects poorly on the U.S.
        \_ Correction:  Some scumbag troops were doing horrible things, and
           will be investigated by a military court.  Your title suggests it's
           still going on and is being done so with approval.
           \_ Less reported is all the secondhand reports that individual
              soldiers and units have been systematically stealing from
              the Iraqi populace.
           \_ hey, it works for al-jazeera :-P
           \_ don't be the citizen of a puppet government
        \_ compare to the crowds in IRAQ who drag bodies through the streets
           and hang them from bridges, and nothing is done to them?
           \_ compare to the thousands killed by the cluster bombs
              when we invaded IRAQ....
              \_ compare 9/11!!!!1!
                 \_ Pales in comparison to the number of innocent
                    Iraqis died since the war.

4/29    fstat just gave me a bus error.  Something's rotten in Soda

4/29    Bush To Iraqi Militants: 'Please Stop Bringing It On'
        WASHINGTON, DC--In an internationally televised statement Monday,
        President Bush modified a July 2003 challenge to Iraqi militants
        attacking U.S. forces. "Terrorists, Saddam loyalists, and
        anti-American insurgents: Please stop bringing it on now," Bush said
        at a Monday press conference. "Nine months and 500 U.S. casualties
        ago, I may have invited y'all to bring it on, but as of today, I
        formally rescind that statement. I would officially like for you to
        step back."
        \_ really? Link please?
           \_ This could only be the onion. -- ulysses
        \_ Gotta love The Onion.  But I think the article the other week about
           the libertarian who had to reluctantly call the fire deparment to
           save his house was better.

4/29    Does anoyone know why ^K (delete line) works so slowly in xemacs
        over X-forwarding?  It takes like, 5 seconds a line over my DSL
        connection.  What's the deal?
        \_ It needs to re-transmit the whole screen so as to redraw?

4/29    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1792200
        A University of Massachusetts student has openly criticized Pat
        Tillman, calling the former NFL player a Rambo-like idiot in the
        school paper. The column in question was submitted by graduate student
        Rene Gonzalez and published Wednesday in the Daily Collegian. It was
        titled "Pat Tillman is not a hero: he got what was coming to him."
        \_ it goes without saying that Gonzalez is an ass, and Tillman's death
           is a tragedy (along with everybody else who's getting blown away).
           But really, do we have to call it the Pat Tillman Freedom Plaza?
           I don't like mixing up "Counter-Terrorism" with "Freedom".  It's
           not our freedom that's being fought for in Afghanistan or Iraq, it's
           our security.
           \_ My prediction: They will rename the Patriot's stadium
              "Patrick Tillman Memorial Stadium" on opening day
              of the NFL season. George W Bush will preside over
              the ceremony, complete with 100s of American flags
              and a fireworks display.
           \_ Why is Gonzales an "ass"? He might very well have a point,
              and I don't blame him given the intelligence of most of our
              military.
              \_ Look, an American soldier just died on a road in Afghanistan.
                 You can question his sanity about giving up a multimillion
                 dollar contract to join the army, but now is not the time to
                 speculate groundlessly that he was there because of Rambo or
                 nationalism.  Tillman died doing something honorable, and
                 his family doesn't need any petty sniping from an ass like
                 Gonzalez who's just speculating about Tillman's motives.
              \_ "You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the 'real'
                 thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy,
                 from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he
                 got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in
                 real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should
                 call Pat Tillman's army life 'Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to
                 Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets
                 Killed." -R. Gonzalez
        \_ Gonzalez is a putrid scumbad.

4/29    Whoever is locking the motd, knock it off.  williamc, this means
        you!
        \_ he's idle, and he's got vi open

4/30     My CGI script has gone from .120us to about .250us. How can I
        profile my Perl code without adding too much trash? For example,
        how much savings do I get by taking out "use strict", use modules,
        and other stuff?
        \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?

4/29    In the past generations of hackers/computer enthusiasts, it seems like
        the general political thrust was a general distrust of government
        combined with an enthusiasm about the future - a classical sort of
        "hippy" outlook.  I get the feeling now, though, that the newer
        generation around here tends more towards supporting the government
        and a fear of the future - the Patrick Buchanan outlook if you will.
        Any ideas on why this shift?  Just a generational thing?
        \_ computer geeks are attracted to simplistic, self-centered ideologies.
           for those working in a government funded lab, that means socialism,
           and for those working in industry that means libertarianism.  the
           90's saw a major increase in the fraction of hackers working in
           industry.  they chose their childish ideology accordingly.
           \_ Speaking of simplistic, self-centered ideologies.....
           \_ Christ paolo, get off the fucking cross and start living your
              life.
        \_ Clinton-haters got computers and the Internet
           \_ They should be grateful to Al Gore
        \_ That is not Patrick Buchanan's political outlook.

4/29    Dey're tekkin rrr jebbbs!
        \_ I find South Park to be both very pro-gay (Big Gay Al and his
           Big Gay Sanctuary) and to be very anti-gay (turning people Queer
           so that the future people wouldn't take their jobs). What's up
           with this love/hate relationship? Are the makers gay?
           \_ Answer 1 is that they see both sides of the issue.  Answer 2
              is that they weren't being anti-gay last night, they were
              just playing with idiot redneck solutions and idiot redneck
              latent homosexuality.  -- aging liberal hippy douche

4/29    Binary file, very funny!!

4/29    Audiophiles, what receiver/speaker do you use?
        \- psb. --psb
           \_ haha
        \_ anyone use Axiom?
        \_ Marantz receiver and B&W speakers. PSB is also nice.

4/29    How do I restore the motd?
        \_ ED!

4/29    What should I do when I get a Bus error? take the train?
        \_ TEKKIN rrr treeeeens.
        \_ Drive the Ram.

4/29    FYI, Microsoft does support publishing using iCalendar.
        http://freebusy.office.microsoft.com/freebusy/freebusy.dll

4/29    Does it make you feely manly to nuke the motd?
        \_ why yes it does.

4/29    Help, Al Qaeda has infiltrated csua and is nuking motd!!!
        \_ Help!  FOBs have inflitrated the CSUA and are posting barely
           grammatical, article-less sentences!

4/29    Someone is nuking motd...
        \_ omg!
        \_ anyone know why mehlhaff stopped his motd archiver?