3/12    A day or so ago, the motd was full of talk about donations to
        the csua and questions about what the current state of csua hw
        is and what we're planning on doing about it. First off, we'll
        take any cash donations people want to give us; I'm going to
        bring up the paypal idea at the next meeting. As far as
        hardware donations, we'll take anything in working condition
        thats better then what we have now (not a tall order as our
        worst machines are currently dual PPro 200s); this includes
        the 50 gig SCSI raid 5 that was offered. Currently, we're in
        need of video cards (two have failed in the past two weeks);
        if you have any old ones lying around that work without much
        effort under linux, send em our way! We do have a backup
        system for soda that is basically the same as what scotsman
        described thats almost "in production" (we're still working
        out a few bugs with the software that takes snapshots). At
        some point I'll try to get the person working on that to write
        up a technical description for our out of date website. With
        respect to Soda's disk, tom is right but gm's point re the age
        of disk is what we're most concerned about. We're also lacking
        numbers on what performance we can expect for various
        solutions; if anyone has them for a load like soda, please let
        me know. Finally I do read motd and hang out/monitor wall, but
        if you really have something you want to say to
        root/vp/politburo, send mail. As for donations, please send mail
        to donations before sending anything. Thanks, erikk - current VP

3/12    Does anyone have any experience with air courier services
        (where you deliver a package or something and then get to
        fly for extremely discounted prices)? Are they reliable?
        Safe? Thanks.
        \_ Carry this bomb for me?  Free air fare! thanks!
        \_ Can you please carry this heavy ticking, smoking, leaking
           box on that plane for me?  I'll pay you double at the other
           side.  Thanks!

3/12    To the guy I was having the discussing about Chinese Characters
        in Korea with:
          I talked to my wife, and she told me that for a short time
        in the early 80's, Chinese Characters were not taught in
        middle and high school and there was no chinese literature course.
        That may have been the ban your friend was referring to.
        One other point about Koreas not being able to understand classic
        lit. Before the korean writing system was developed in the 1500s
        they used a wierd system called Naboo that was all chinese
        characters but some were meant to be read as their chinese meaning
        and some as their Korean pronuciation (to spell a Korean word).
        The exact meaning of passages in these writings cannot be clearly
        ascertained by anyone anymore.  (1 word being read 2 diffrent ways
        could have 2 different yet vaild meanings.)
        \_ ha ha losers... the Japanese have a system where every Chinese
           character has at LEAST 2 readings and sometimes more than 2
           meanings
        \_ Strange... I am a Chinese and I don't read a word of Korean, but
           when I was reading some of the ancient Korean text around 1600 or
           so, I sware I was able to read 70% of the text and actually
           understand what they are saying.  The text I read was the passage
           written by (or behave of) King Sejong, explaining inventing
           Hangul jamo as a way to enhance literacy among the common people.
                                        -kngharv
           \_ Not all anchient writings were like this.  There were also
              documents written in plain ol' chinese.  But actually
              my wife seems to think that's written all in actual
              phonetic Korean.  Maybe it was a translation?
              \_ I know what I am reading, and I am literate enough to
                 tell the differences between Chinese text and some foreign
                 text with whole bunch Chinese characters in it.  -kngharv
              \_ Korean scholars were all bilingual until pretty recently.
                 Actually Korean imported Chinese culture (confucianism and
                 Chinese characters) long before they developed their own
                 writing system (which I think happened during the Monloglian
                 occupation).  And that writing system was used exclusively
                 for the peasant and lower class while scholars used classic
                 Chinese for docuument and literature until last century.
                 \_ is that true that most of the official document in Korean
                    imperial court are written in Chinese characters?

3/13    Anyone got pointers to docs/files for info on using MySQL on soda?
        It's for a class project and wanted to use PHP and MySQL on soda
        to experiment with it.  Has anyone tested it out?
        Is this it? '/usr/local/bin/safe_mysqld'  Thanks in advance...
        \_ We have a postgres server available for such projects; email
           root for more info.

3/13    So, I just watched an episode of south park titled
        "all about mormons", in which it mentions how joseph smith claimed
        to have talked to god and jesus, how an angel directed him to
        gold plates and seer stones from which the book of mormon was
        transcribed, how no one ever really got to examine the plates
        and how he read them out of a hat, etc. stan concludes that the
        mormon religion is total bs, and gary (the mormon kid) says that
        if it makes his family happy and gives him a good life, then why
        not even if it is all crap. i know there are at least a couple
        mormons around here, and i'm wondering what you have to say about
        this. thanks.
        \_ As you may have noticed, the motd is now the most productive forum
        \_ As you may have noticed, the motd is not the most productive forum
           for discussion about this.  The motd is better for sound bytes and
           short answers, not for in-depth discussion. -emarkp
           \_ It's much more useful and productive to dress up in drab suits
              and harass people in their homes.
           short answers, not for in-depth discussion. -emarkp
        \_ you can have tv shows like the above mormonism, or christianity,
              and harass people in their homes.
              \_ When did you stop beating your wife? -emarkp
              \_ Why did you stop beating your wife? -emarkp
        \_ you can have tv shows like the above on mormonism, or christianity,
           but if you do something like that against judaism, you will be
           skewered alive.
           \_ Maybe you haven't seen the endless pro-palestinian anti-israeli
              biased news reports for the last umpteen years?
              biased news reports for the last umpteen years?
              \_ I did not find the news media on the whole anti-isareli
                 and pro-palestinian.  even those that are more on the
                 palestinian side, are against isreali policies, not
                 against judaism.  I am sure it is within your ability to
                 understand the difference.
              \_ So anything questioning Israeli policy is anti-semitic?
                 Fucking idiot. Maybe you haven't seen all the terrorism
                 coverage?
                 \_ Yes, actually, I have seen it.  In this and other
                    \_ What am I saying? Simply that your example of
                       "anti-israeli biased news reports", even if that's true,
                       isn't anything "against judaism" itself, and that you're
                       a fucking idiot for apparently thinking so.
           but if you do something like that against judaism, you will be
           skewered alive.
                    countries.  What do you think you're trying to say and
              \_ no, they aren't, any more than christians are joos.
                    why does calling me a fucking idiot improve the quality
                    of your 'points' whatever they might be?  if you'd like
                    to try again with a civil tongue in your head we can
                    talk about it.  if you're just going to insult me then
                    don't bother posting.
              \_ no, they aren't, any more than christians are jews.
                    \_ What am I saying? Simply that your example of
                       "anti-israeli biased news reports", even if that's true,
              \_ I occur. They are not Christians at all. What's
                 \_ whats a joos?  juice? grape worshippers?? what?
                    \_ ignoramus! where do you think joojoobees come from?
                       isn't anything "against judaism" itself, and that you're
                       a fucking idiot for apparently thinking so.
           \_ Mormons are Christians.  Just so you know.  -emarkp
              \_ no, they aren't, any more than christians are joos.
                 \_ whats a joos?  juice? grape worshippers?? what?
                    \_ ignoramus! where do you think joojoobees come from?
                       \_ anything like a honey farm?  joos = honeybees and
                          not grape juice trees?  what is joos?
              \_ I concur. They are not Christians at all. What's
                          \_ some weirdo likes changing jew to joo on motd.
                             maybe a hypersensitive jew.
                             \_ im a 'hypersensitive' jew and i prefer the
                                correct spelling not some insulting smear. the
                                word 'jew' is not offensive. why would you
                                \_ There is only one Church which uses the
                                   Book of Mormon and it isn't Christian.
                                   There's nothing wrong with not being
                                   Christian, but I find it odd that Mormons
                                   think that they are and argue that they are.
                                   \_ Umm.. so.  Only the Catholics use
                                      the apocropha, are they not
                                      Christian?  The Book of Mormon is
                                      primarialy a book about CHRIST.
                       \_ I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.  Who the heck
                                think it is?
              \_ I occur. They are not Christians at all. What's
                          The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
                 interesting is that they think that they are even though
                 the Christian Church rejects them. Why is that?
                          Moron.
            \_ I have no sympathy for Morons. All you have to do is learn
           skewered.
           \_ Mormons are Christians.  Just so you know.  -emarkp
              \_ no, they aren't, any more than christians are jews.
              \_ mormons are happy being moron.  they dont need your sympathy.
                 \_ Mormons believe in Christ, ergo, they are Christians.
                    No church defines "Christianity"
                    \_ they don't believe Christ was God but another prophet
                 \_ christianity is about christ not the church.  the church
                    is a political organisation.
                 \_ Mormons believe in Christ, ergo, they are Christians.
                   \_ yes and in the end it's all about 'believe in our god
                      the way we say so because'.  dont get lost in the
                      pseudo intellectualism of religious studies along the
                      way.
                   \_ There is a huge difference between philosophical
                     taoism, which came into form around the same period
                     as confucianism, and religious taoism, which came
                     into form a bit later.  Although the latter claims
                     to follow the former, in many ways it contradicts
                     the former.  Similarly, religious buddhism is antithetical
                     to the teaching of Siddhartha in more ways than one
                     can count.  OK, I admit that I admire Chirst the saintly
                     man with godly deeds but not christians the lion meat.
              \_ The Book of Mormon is no less "contrived language" than the
                 Bible. -emarkp
                 \_ ??? No... because the bible came from original Hebrew and
                    Greek sources, and was translated a long time ago. The BOM
                    was transparently contrived to try to "fit in" with notions
                    of biblical style.
           but if you do something like that against judaism, you will be
           skewered.
           \_ I have no sympathy for Mormons. All you have to do is learn
              some history and just look at the book of mormon to see what
              utter bs it is. No other largish religion has such a preposterous
           \_ But he does spend a significant chunk of the book on the
              history of the mainstream non-splinter LDS church. Is that
              (in your view / in the view of other members of your church)
              accurate?
                    No church defines "Christianity"
              basis. Look at the contrived language in the BOM.
                    \_ they don't believe Christ was God but another prophet
                       \_ neither do jews, muslims, or hindus. so what?
                          \_ and that's why they're not called Christians!
                       \_ I'm sorry, but you're a moron.  Who the heck
                          The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
                             Mormons adopt a large set of beliefs that
                       \_ I'm sorry, but you're a mormon.  Who the heck
                             aren't in Christianity. Therefore you don't call
                 \_ you find a cartoon to be 'not that far from the mark' and
                    thus a good source of primary information?   make that
                    motd stupid person this spring award.  it's a cartoon
                    intended to mock that which we _already_ understand.  my
                    god, the morons are out in force today.
                    \_ As are the mormons, apparently.
                             it Christianity, but Mormon. It's very simple.
                             \_ Ok then, please tell me which
                          Mormon.
            \_ I have no sympathy for Mormons. All you have to do is learn
                                denominations are christian a which
                                aren't.  Apparently believing Christ is
                                divine isn't enough.
                                \_ There is only one Church which uses the
                                   Book of Mormon and it isn't Christian.
                                   There's nothing wrong with not being
                                   Christian, but I find it odd that Mormons
                                   think that they are and argue that they are.
                                   \_ Umm.. so.  Only the Catholics use
                                      the apocropha, are they not
                                      Christian?  The Book of Mormon is
           \_ If Christ was a carpenter, I wonder what he charged for
              bookshelves?
                                      primarialy a book about CHRIST.
                       \_ I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.  Who the heck
                          told you Mormon's don't believe Jesus CHRIST
                          was divine?  That's why we call him CHRIST.
                          The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
                          is the offical church name, not Mormon.  Mormon
                          is a nickname from our study of the Book of
                          Moron.
            \_ I have no sympathy for Morons. All you have to do is learn
              some history and just look at the book of mormon to see what
              utter bs it is. No other largish religion has such a preposterous
              basis. Look at the contrived language in the BOM.
              \_ mormons are happy being moron.  they dont need your sympathy.
              \_ what about scientology?
                   can count.  OK, I admit that I admire Chirst the man but
                   not christians.
              \_ no, all religions are completely contrived and silly.
                \_ don't confuse "religions" with "religious dogma"
                   For example, Taoism and Buddhism are mainly philosophy
                 changes?  Yes.  But not like they mention.  Most of the
                   and the Talmud describes a huge number of moral questions
                   without simply saying "because we said so."  -brain
                 a number of "Hebrewisms" grammatical forms simlar to
                   \_ yes and in the end it's all about 'believe in our god
                      the way we say so because'.  dont get lost in the
                      pseudo intellectualism of religious studies along the
                      way.
                 changes?  Yes.  But not like they meantion.  Most of the
                        \_ don't be lame; the Tao and Buddhism don't have a
                                "god"
                 a number of "Hebrewisms" gammatical forms simlar to
                           \_ actualy, there are gods in both taoist and
                              buddhist *religion*, while the original taoist
                 \_ Do you support the aggresive prosylization and the
                    conversion of the deceased?  I agree Mormon's are
                    not along in agressive prosylization, but I believe
                    they are unique in the "ancestor conversion".
\_ I participated in some discussion of this episode a while back.
                              and buddhism philosophy/teaching have none.
                              They were, in fact, both agnostic in a sense.
                              see below
        \_ that was a good episode.  I had similar questions, and I actually
           went to the official Mormon site to see what they believed.
           I think what Mormons believe is a bit on the crazy side,
           but I do respect many of their values and their family friendly
           atmosphere.
                   \_ There is a huge difference between philosophical
                     taoism, which came into form around the same period
                     as confucianism, and religious taoism, which came
        \_ I participated in some discussion of this episode a whlie back.
                     into form a bit later.  Although the latter claims
                     to follow the former, in many ways it contradicts
                     the former.  Similarly, religious buddhism is antithetical
                     to the teaching of Siddhartha in more ways than one
                     can count.  OK, I admit that I admire Chirst the saintly
                     man with godly deeds but not christians the lion meat.
              \_ The Book of Mormon is no less "contrived language" than the
                 Bible. -emarkp
                 \_ ??? No... because the bible came from original Hebrew and
                    Greek sources, and was translated a long time ago. The BOM
                    was transparently contrived to try to "fit in" with notions
                    of biblical style.
        \_ for an unsympathetic but very well researched introduction to
           mormonism, i highly recomend "under the banner of heaven,"
           by Jon Krakauer.
           \_ Um, not exactly.  Krakauer focuses a lot on splinter groups, not
              the LDS church. -emarkp
           \_ But he does spend a significant chunk of the book on the
              history of the mainstream non-splinter LDS church. Is that
              (in your view / in the view of other members of your church)
              accurate?
        \_ Not to gang up on anyone, but this episode also ranks as one of
           my primary sources of information on Mormonism and it doesn't say
           much for the religion-- not that any other religion is better but
           merely that it would be nice to know more.
           \_ anyone who uses a south park episode as their primary source
              for *anything* needs to be shot.  you 'win' the prize for
              "motd stupid person on the motd" for this entire month.  no,
              i'm not mormon.  i'm an atheist.
              \_ actually, i find south park to not be that far from the
                 mark usually.
                 \_ you find a cartoon to be 'not that far from the mark' and
                    thus a good source of primary information?   make that
                    motd stupid person this spring award.  it's a cartoon
                    intended to mock that which we _already_ understand.  my
                    god, the morons are out in force today.
                    \_ As are the mormons, apparently.
        \_ Mormonism's roots are actually no more whacky than any of the
           myriad of religions out there. Christianity is basically just
           hero worship from a carpenter who got nailed to a cross,
           Islam started off as the cult of Mohammed who basically got
           rich off of marrying the right woman and who couldn't move a
           mountain so he walked over to it, Scientology is just a scam
           by L. Ron Hubbard, Jews believe that god spoke to Moses
           through a burning bush, eastern religions are often merely
           ancestor worship mixed up with Confucionism/Buddhism/etc.
           So as long as it isn't hurting anyone and people in it are
           generally happy, law-abiding citizens Mormonism isn't really
           much whackier than Catholicism or Baptists. I mean, whatever
           brainwashing method works for you, whether it be god talking
           into a hat or you believing in lucky rabbit's foot, that gets
           you through the day should be fine in the U.S.
           \_ If Christ was a carpenter, I wonder what he charged for
              bookshelves?
              \_ beating your wife?
           \_ that's not really my point. i just want to know whether
              our csua mormons actually believe in say, joseph smith
              being a prophet. if they're mormons just to be happy, that's
              all fine and well, i don't care.
                    conversation of the deceased?  I agree Mormon's are
              \_ Yes, I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet and spoke with God
                 face to face as did Moses.  -emarkp
                    \_ whats wrong with post-death conversion?  the dead dont
                       care and it makes the living feel better.  -atheist
                    \_ The dead only convert if they want to.  We can't
                       force anyone to convert, even if they're dead.  But
                       we do give them a chance.  (Catholics send them
                        straight to hell)
                    \_ What is "conversation of the deceased"? -emarkp
        \_ How sad.  Students at top schools satisfy their intellectual
           curiosity by watching an episode of South Park.
           \_ actually, i'd been coding for some time and needed a break. -op
              \_ you needed a big fat cookie, troll
           \_ I believe in dog.  Hah!  Get it?  That's god spelled
              backwards! Dog is my co-pilot!
        \_ Ok, I'm Mormon and I'll answer this.  That episode was idiotic.
           I mean, it reduces the facts to childlike simplicity, then
           represented them badly and out of context.  As far as do
           Mormons actually believe Joseph Smith was a prophet.  Yes.
           Of course we do.  Try reading the Book of Mormon yourself.
           It's an amazing book. I'll be happy to discuss this with
           anyone in a context more serious that the motd anytime.
                -jrleek
           \_ http://geraldpaul.fws1.com/page2.html
              is this true?
              \_ Well, yes an no.  First, has it gone through 4100
                 changes?  Yes.  But not like they mention.  Most of the
                 changes were punctuation, which wasn't written by JS at
                 all, but by the printers assistant.  Also, there were a
                 a number of "Hebrewisms" grammatical forms simlar to
                 hebrew that made it into the first edition, that were
                 corrected in the second.  Second: Did JS use the
                 seerstone? Yep. Why? I don't know.  During later
                 translation works he didn't use anything at all
                 sometimes.  Is any of this a secret?  Uhh.. No.  It's
                 well known in the church, and the missionaries will
                 tell you too.  I could go on, but this is the motd.
              \_ Basically, no.  It's got a very low signal to noise ratio.
                 With some effort you can pick out some truthful bits, but it's
                 basically wrong. -emarkp
                 \_ Do you support the aggresive prosylization and the
                    conversion of the deceased?  I agree Mormon's are
                    not along in agressive prosylization, but I believe
                    they are unique in the "ancestor conversion".
        \_ I participated in some discussion of this episode a while back.
           Same username:
           http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=232025
           -emarkp
        \_ that was a good episode.  I had similar questions, and I actually
           went to the official Mormon site to see what they believed.
           I think what Mormons believe is a bit on the crazy side,
           but I do respect many of their values and their family friendly
           atmosphere.

3/12    [ stupid thread deleted then. ]
        \_ cool, should have been done a long while ago