Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:02 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/2/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:12063 Activity:nil
2/1     More on why electronic voting is bad
        \_ Evoting has lots of problems but if you think standard paper voting
           hasn't been rigged in *every* election since 1800 you're only
           fooling yourself.  For a serious case where it mattered, see the
           Nixon/Kennedy race.  The mob had more dead people voting and voting
           often than were registered to vote in their Chicago precints.
           \_ Vote early, vote often!  Seriously, though, so what? We're
              supposed to let e-voting off the hook because previous voting
              systems have been open to corruption? That makes no sense.
              \_ Not at all.  I'm only saying what I'm saying which is that
                 the current scheme is no better and probably much worse in
                 many ways.  I'd prefer that all voting was 100% clean but
                 it isn't and anyone saying evoting is bad because it doesn't
                 come to the high standards of paper voting is only fooling
                 themselves.  Vote outcomes are so important that if there is
                 any way at all to rig them, they will be.  I'm perfectly
                 happy with paper voting and I agree that evoting is just a
                 waste right now but the moment evoting is more secure than
                 paper we should spend the money on it as a nation.  I make
                 no excuses or exceptions for any voting system that can be
                 \_ Right on, except that I think that it's not that people
                    are necessarily surprised that evoting is easily riggable,
                    it's that there's no point in updating a system if you're
                    not going to make an actual attempt at fixing it. It also
                    seems to me that while paper receipts are not going to
                    make the system tamper-proof, they'll go a long way to
                    making the system more tamper-resistant.
                    \_ I'm with you.  We're in total agreement.  Is that even
                       allowed on the motd?
2004/2/2-3 [Recreation/Dating] UID:12064 Activity:high
2/1     Did anyone actually see this happen?  That would have nearly made the
        halftime show worthwhile.
        \_ /csua/tmp/janet_superbowl.avi
           \_ Looks pretty much planned here.
        \_ Suspend CBS' license for a week.  That'll teach 'em.
        \_ Who cares?  It's a fake boob with a nipple shield.  Don't you
           think it's a bit prurient to get all hot and bothered over it,
           regardless over whether it was planned or not?  You muppets
           obviously don't have enough nudity on broadcast TV.  -John
           \_ I only saw the screen shot on the net.  Did it move wrong?
              How do you know it was fake?  Looked the right amount of soft
              and giggly in the stills.
                \_ I'm sure the picture is real, but it's Janet Jackson's
                   boobs.  C'mon.  -John
                   \_ Hey, why not?  She was always a curvy girl and it's not
                      like it's a really great breast or anything.
        \_ yes, saw it.
        \_ I saw it too, and was pretty sure that it was planned since she
           did have the pastie, but I guess they're at least saying that it
           wasn't.  What's the big deal, anyway?
           \_ it's not a big deal, it's just mtv trying to boost ratings
              again by being faux shocking.
        \- YMWTS: --psb
        \_ "wardrobe malfunction?"
           \_ see: "spin", also see "lies" and "PR bullshit".  obviously it was
              totally planned.  does she have an album out recently or
              something?  maybe figured with michael's problems this was a good
              time to cash in on some jackson family fame.
              \_ in the picture above, Janet looks very surprised.
                 \_ if it was planned wouldn't the surprise part be planned
                    too?  they know they can't do that without getting fined
                    so they need an excuse.  any 6 year old can lie better.
                    costume malfunction?  he reached out, grabbed her bra
                    thingy (whatever that would be called on her slightly odd
                    costume) and ripped it off.  underneath she had this
                    weird star shaped nipple jewelry thing which I won't
                    call a pasty.  why'd she have that on if it wasn't
                    planned?  how often does timberlake randomly reach out
                    and rip off a piece of woman's clothing and not expect it
                    to come off in his hand?  the whole thing is just silly.
                    \_ there is plausible deniability in that the leather
                       part was supposed to be ripped, but the bra still on.
                       \_ "plausible deniability" means "we're a bunch of lying
                          bastards and everyone knows it but no one can prove
                          it.  wink, wink."
        \_ Also worth mentioning is that if it was an "accident" then why didn't
           CBS use the 10 (15?) seconds delay to edit it out?  They had no
           problem editing out the streakers...
           \_ They didn't edit anything out, it was a wide shot for the
              second half kickoff, and when the streaker ran out onto the
              field, they could have left the camera on him and he would
              still have been far enough away that nothing could have been
              seen, but they just panned out farther.
           \_ Most live TV doesn't have a delay.
              \_ Local news doesn't use a delay, but most big events do.  It
                 lets them pick camera angles and block streakers, or if they
                 did a crowd shot and someone gave the camera the middle finger.
        \_ "I'm going to have you naked by the end of this song."
           \_ sounds like a cue
        \_ Predictions?  I'm guessing the FCC gives CBS a modest fine, CBS
           blames MTV, and MTV doesn't produce another halftime show until
           everyone forgets about this one (5-10 years).
           \_ Modest fine, apologies across the board, and MTV still produces
              next year's half-time show but makes Justin Timberlake rip the
              shirt off Seann William Scott (who will be wearing a pasty).
                \_ Do you work for MTV? That's a perfect VMA skit. Good
                choice of SWS.
           \_ I want to know where all the feminists are and why aren't they
              saying calling Timberlake out on his sexual battery and MTV for
              promoting violence against women as an acceptable act?
2004/2/2 [Uncategorized] UID:12065 Activity:nil
2/1     One program suggests maximum of one hour TV or internet a day,
        and encourages people to get out of the house and meet people.
        what do you think about this?
        \_ you're asking the wrong crowd.
2004/2/2 [Computer/Networking] UID:12066 Activity:nil
2/1     I just upgraded the firmware in my linksys AP.
        What's the best wireless encryption scheme?
        WPA/pre-shared, WPA-RADIUS, RADIUS, WEP?
        \_ WPA w/ Radius unless you can do 802.1x
        \_ anyone recommend a decent radius server -!op
2004/2/2 [Uncategorized] UID:12067 Activity:nil
2/1     Has anyone had trouble getting xmms to use alsa under the 2.6 series?
2004/2/2 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:12068 Activity:nil
2/1     A draft paper I wrote on building better cryptographic authentication
        protocols. Feedback appreciated (either constructive or amusing).
2004/2/2 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:12069 Activity:high
2/2     My google fu is weak.  Can anyone provide a link to the story of the
        high school boy and girl who were assigned to write a collaberative
        story and the boy keeps trying to make it a rayguns and rocketship
        story and the girl keeps trying to make it a love story?  It wasn't
        amusing enough to save it when i first was sent it but now I want to
        show it to someone.  Surely someone out there still has this. (Hell,
        I'm sure someone, somewhere is getting it in their email even now).
           \_ tnx motd!
              \_ Bow down to your Google Masters!
                 \_ I blame Google's 10 word limit for me not finding
                     the story.  Well, that and the fact that i was
                     searching for "collaberative" instead of "tandem" :(
2004/2/2 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:12070 Activity:nil
2/2     A Bellovin and Cheswick paper on encrypted searching.  Comments
2004/2/2-3 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:12071 Activity:low
2/2     Happy Square Root Day!
        \_ huh?
          \_ 2/2/4?
             \_ 1/1/01, 9/9/1981, 3/3/2009
        Happy Addition Day!
2004/2/2-3 [Transportation/Car] UID:12072 Activity:nil
2/2     So one guy tells me that engine preheating is good for the car (warmed
        up oil, belts, cogs, etc move better) and the other guy tells me that
        it's only necessary for non-fuel-injected cars. My mechanic tells me
        that it's all bullshit and you can pretty much just start and go.
        Who's right?
        \_ I have a fairly new car whose instruction manual says not to
           warm up the car in idle but to drive immediately and not to
           put too much load on the car. I think one of the reasons was
           that they didn't want to be liable for CO poisoning.
        \_ Where do you live?  If it's cold, engine preheating's just wise.
        \_ my doctor said it's bs to warm up before you exercise, now
           I had to pay him to get my back fixed. [reformatd]
           \_ Who's your doctor, Dr. Quack? There's a tort there somewhere.
           \_ Some Hearsay for you: At least one study (each) has indicated:
              1.) cars that are just run gently in the first mile(s) after
                  starting fair no worse than auto's that are always
                  "warmed up").
              2.) People who stretch regularly do not have significantly
                  less injuries than people who don't.  However, people
                  who stretch ususally and then don't stretch have a higher
                  injury rate for that occasion. -crebbs
                  \_ source?  This type of inquiry seems fraught with
                     possible control issues and experimental procedure probs.
        \_ Use some common sense.  Do you think rubber, such as that used
           in belts, will age better if warmed up prior to tensioning?
           Probably, yes.  Will it make a difference in the aging of the belt?
           Probably, yes.  How much difference?  Probably not much. You might
           squeeze 5k more miles out of the lifespan of a 60k belt or hose.
           So what does that mean for you?  Cost savings, if you plan to
           keep your car that long and don't plan to follow dealer maintenance
           replacement schedules.  Will it matter in your engine long term?
           Sure.  Again, maybe a 10% gain in the longevity of powertrain parts
           (middle of the road estimate - it might be 3% it might be 20%).
           If your car is Japanese, it might mean a 220k lifespan rather than
           200k.  If American, 165k lifespan rather than 150k.  Does it matter
           _to you_? You be the judge.
           \_ what about the wasted gasoline from idling? And air-pollution?
              \_ it's unamerican to worry about air pollution.  Are you
                 a terrorist?
        \_ I've also heard from another mechanic that unless your car's in
           such a bad shape that it actually stalls if you don't warm up, it's
           better in the long run to not warm up.
        \_ Ever since my Integra hit 150k, if the engine is cold, my car jerks
           when I switch to reverse. It doesn't happen if I let the car warm
           up for more than half a minute.
        \_ it's better to let your car warm up by driving it slowly than to
           let it idle. idling puts no load on the engine, so little heat is
        \_ search cartalk (
2004/2/2-3 [Recreation/Celebrity/MichaelJackson] UID:12073 Activity:high
02/02   it wasn't Janet Jackson but Michael in disguise!
        \_ Now you're just trying to hurt my feelings.
        \_ I don't think there's enough makeup or surgery in the world to
           turn a guy like MJ into a black person of either sex.
2004/2/2-3 [Uncategorized] UID:12074 Activity:very high
02/02   [reposting because my previous post got trolled.]
        Most people are aware and do something about wrinkles on their faces.
        But few people do anything to prevent wrinkles around their dicks.
        Notice how some old penises look like turtles with saggy, wrinkled,
        and loose skin around their heads?  You don't want to have that do
        you?  Apply all the skin care products to your dick just like you
        would to your face.  -pretty boy
        \_ Must... resist... urge... to.. troll!
           \_ Why resist?
        \_ hey, it's effeminate eye for the soda guy
2004/2/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12075 Activity:high
2/2     67 Kurds blown up on Sunday, 265+ injured, not much coverage.
        \_ were any of them American?
           \_ they supported Americans
              \_ That's not relevant
                 \_ W00t!
        \_ But look at Janet Jackson's tits! Woot!
           \_ That nipple... piercing(?) is disturbing.
              \_ it wasn't pierced.  just a cosmetic add-on for the show.
        \_ It happened on Sunday.  Non-football discussion is unpatriotic.
        \_ it was front page news, what more do you want?
           \_ today, not on washingtonpost or  i wonder how many
              americans know about it.  not much coverage.
              \_ disturbing
              \_ They know that people blowing up in Iraq bores America now.
                 They don't even really get excited about the weekly troop
                 deaths either.
                 \_ only because they are not doing their job.  get some
                    nice photos with lots of blood and carnage and some good
                    interviews and people will be interested, but american media
                    is tame pussy these days, which is how it should be, just
                    like my country singapore.
2004/2/2-3 [Recreation/Dating, Reference/Law/Court] UID:12076 Activity:high
2/2     Kansas court gives 18-year old 17 years for blowjob:,1282,-3689195,00.html
        \_ It was rear action, not BJ.
           \_ Bzzt. A BJ on an unwilling guy (or underage guy, in this case)
              is often legally classified as sodomy. (Props to Law & Order:
              SVU for the reference.)
        \_ they plan to appeal to kansas supreme court
        \_ it was a 14 year old.  jesus christ oh mighty!  you think it's
            wrong to protect children from sexual predators?
            \_ By tossing children in prison until they're 35?
            \_ Troll?  They were basically boyfriend&boyfriend, < 4 years
                apart in age.
            \_ In California a 18/14 year old couple is legal.
2004/2/2-3 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:12077 Activity:nil
2/2     Trivia of the day: what does this do?
        n = ((n >>  1) & 0x55555555) | ((n <<  1) & 0xaaaaaaaa);
        n = ((n >>  2) & 0x33333333) | ((n <<  2) & 0xcccccccc);
        n = ((n >>  4) & 0x0f0f0f0f) | ((n <<  4) & 0xf0f0f0f0);
        n = ((n >>  8) & 0x00ff00ff) | ((n <<  8) & 0xff00ff00);
        n = ((n >> 16) & 0x0000ffff) | ((n << 16) & 0xffff0000);
        \_ [formatd]
        \_ I'm just guessing, but possibly reverse the order of the bits in n.
                \_ um, are you sure it's O(n)? ARE YOU SURE???
                   \_ um, wtf are you responding to?
                      \_ um, he doesn't know!  he ISN'T SURE!
        \_ nothing interesting but if I cared I could run it through perl or
           wrap it in C syntax but I don't care.
2004/2/2-3 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:12078 Activity:kinda low 50%like:12085
2/2     I've never played Chinese Chess.  Any comments about it?
        Aside from:
        \_ it's a good game, more like chess and less like Go or weiqi.
           Probably a little less complex and difficult than chess, but
           you need a few dozen games before you can possibly beat me,
           a decent amateur, if you are pretty bright
           \_ [ Chicom troll censored, Chinese government style. ]
              \_ I think he means less complex is equivalent to fewer possible
        \_ Also called Elephant Chess.  Very challenging and well-balanced.
           It seems simpler than chess, at first, but takes almost as
           much skill to master, so in that respect, it's similar.
           Perhaps chess has a greater number of variations, but both have
           a greater magnitude of variation than most non-experts can
           calculate, so mastery is of a similarly high level.  Btw,
           you can play online, too: -nivra
           \_ Darn!  I went to the site, and got slaughtered.  Those
              people pretty good.
        \_ can one calculate the complexity of both games recursively? For
           example, how many moves exist by multiplying the number of moves
           for each piece with the next move, etc etc. Maybe that'll tell you
           mathematically how complex both games are.
           \_ No.
        \_ The Horse in Chinese chess moves the same way as the Knight.  (A
           knight piece is a horse anyway.)  The Chariot moves the same way as
           the Rook.  The Elephant moves somewhat similarly to the Bishop.
           The initial positions of Chariot, Horse and Elephant are the same as
           those of Rook, Knight and Bishop too.
           \_ not quite the same as in western chess.  The Chinese Horse
              can't jump over pieces; it always moves vertically/horizontally
              and then diagonally.
           \_ which bought a interesting point.  I am long suspect the Western
              Chess and the Chinese "elephant" Chess derive from the same historical
              Origin, as a lot pieces moves in similar way and has similiar
              \_ I believe western chess has arab origins who are known to have
                 been in contact with the chinese so it seems likely one got it
                 from the other.  I don't know which had it first.
                 \_ Chess came from an Indian game called Chaturanga.  It came
                    to Europe (in chess form) via Arabs, and to China (in
                    chinese chess form) likely directly.  -- ilyas
        \_ thanks for the info.  Interesting how there is no concept of a queen
           in the game.  But it looks interesting enough.  I like the
           concept of cannons and palace, and palace guards.
           \_ beware the double cannon checkmate and the cannon behind horse
              \_ are there are a lot of resources for english speaking
                 players?  computer games?  game databases?
        \_ related question.  Anybody here play wei-chi or go?  I heard that
           the rules of the game are so simple but the strategy is so
           complicated that we still can't write computer programs that play
           the game.  Or rather a program that's any good.  Not like deep
           \_ I play. Very amateur.  There is a Berkeley Go Club, iirc. -nivra
           \_ Computer chess works because the number of moves that are legal on
              any one turn are managable, so you can search reasonably deep.
              Go has way to many moves to perform a good search, so the better
              Go programs have to do some sort of pattern recognition, IIRC.
           \_ I play wei-chi (badly).  Always looking for more people to play.
                -- ilyas
           \_ I am a rookie go player.  Go has simple rules.  I wouldn't
              call the strategy complicated.  It's just very different.
              Go has start game, middle game and end game, moving from
              vision, imagination and creativity to the analytical, from
              my limited understanding.  Last time, I played online a few
              years back, I beat the guy who gave me a four seed advantage,
              which is huge.  He thinks I play well for someone with less
              than 10 games experience.  He didn't know I read a Go book
              from the game store on Shattuck.  And I played very conservatively,
              using the 4 seed advantage to sit on him.  Still I almost lost
              it all (one-seed slower and a big chunk of my seeds would have
              been lost).  I think making a good computer player is possible,
              but it requires a different approach than chess.  The Go book
              I bought had a game by two masters with explanation of what
              they are trying to do, and it was just very beautiful the way
              each seed is placed at just the right place which at first
              doesn't appear good, but slowly built up to a grand vision,
              with developing patterns appearing like a monster jaw, etc.
              \_ I should add that some go rules are not so simple.  In
                 particular, rules governing ko (repetition) and scoring can
                 be a real bear.  In fact, such rules differ depending on
                 the country you play in.  The strategy in wei-chi is much
                 more complicated than in chess, in my opinion.  In fact, the
                 strategy is what's hard about wei-chi, tactical aspects of
                 the game can be well-handled by known search techniques.
                   -- ilyas
           \_ cf. shogi. There are similarities to chess, but big differences
              as well. For example, when you take a piece, it goes into your
              reserves and you can play it almost anywhere on the board. Also,
              pieces can be promoted under certain circumstances, altering
              their movement. Also hard to create an algorithm to emulate.
              \_ "hard to create an algorithm to emulate?"  What does this
                 even mean?  Do you know what the words 'algorithm' and
                 'emulate' mean?
                 \_ One of those english majors who took CS to play netrek
                    and did well in neither.
          \_ Chinese Chess has the (big in my book) advantage of being a
             much quicker game.  (fewer moves per game,  king is much more
             restricted making for a shorter end-game).  I just learned to
             play and I like it alot (though i've played only few games).
             Here is a decent online Java app:  -crebbs
2019/01/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:February:02 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>