Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:January:30 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2004/1/30 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Languages/Functional] UID:12020 Activity:nil
1/29    Anyone know what strpbrk (the c library function) stands for?
        \_ http://tinyurl.com/2bupw (developer.apple.com)
           \_ He's not asking for the manpage; what does the pbrk part mean?
              \_ probably STRing Pointer BReaK, if someone has the ISO C 89
                 standard they could look it up.
                 \_ that's the obvious guess, but if you think about it,
                    it doesn't really...say anything. btw, i have a copy of
                    the c standard, and what it means is not mentioned.
                    it's also a strange name compared to say, strchr/strrchr,
                    which perform pretty similar functions, just on a single
                    character. -op
        \_ from the book:
                char *strpbrk(cs,ct) return pointer to first occurrence
                in string cs of any character of string ct or NULL if
                none are present.
                \_ You're not answering the question either.  The question is
                   about etymology.  Anyway, this is the sort of thing that
                   probably should be asked on comp.lang.c.
                   \- it means "in a STRing return P pointer to the first
                      BReaK character". you may wish to google for say
                      "lisp scheme skip-until parser break" --psb
        \_ From the BSD manpages it says :
           "strpbrk - locate multiple characters in string"
           From this I'm guessing you could use it to locate things like "\n\t"
           which would be a STRing Paragraph BReaK.
2004/1/30 [Uncategorized] UID:12021 Activity:nil
1/29    Apologies for re-arranging threads.  Had to restore the Motd Censor's
        work.
2004/1/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12022 Activity:nil
1/29    US Troop suicides mounting in Iraq war.
        http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/29/eveningnews/main596755.shtml
        \_ not surprising... when you sign up for the military, you essentially
           become their slave.  if you disobey or refuse to fight, you get
           the dishonor of being courtmartialed.
           \_ Yeah, it would be better if we had an all volunteer force.
2004/1/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:12023 Activity:very high
1/29    Ah, our good friends and allies...
        http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/24/terror/main595582.shtml
        \_ Mussharif is only holding onto power by his fingernails. If
           he let in US troops that would be the end of him.
           \_ so who exactly is booting him out and why would they be
              successful?
              \_ Good grief. Just go read about the past couple of years in
                 Pakistan in your favorite news venue.
                 \_ I have.  I read a lot of hysteria, and it's tough to
                    know how exposed leaders of state actually are in
                    foreign countries.
                    \_ So you can't figure it out yet you call it hysteria?
                       I think 2 assassination attempts in a week is not
                       hysteria.  Maybe you've got a stronger stomach than
                       me and Mussharraf.
              \_ how about the nearly weekly assassination attempts, blamed on
                 Al-Queda/Taliban folks?
                 \_ One could say Musharraf is on the verge of getting killed,
                    or he has quashed the radicals responsible and tightened
                    security.  Now which argument is valid?
                    \_ Having survived 2 very close assassination attempts very
                       recently it is unlikely he has magically quashed the
                       radicals responsible since then.  Now which argument is
                       valid?
        \_ for those who think we've always care about democracy.  This
           Mussharif guy is someone who overthrew a democratic elected
           government at first place.  He is a prime example of "as long as
           you are pro-American, we don't really care what you do."
           \_ "for those who"... no one thinks we've "always care about
              democracy".  that's a big fat straw man.
             \_ do you acknowledge that it was a bloodless coup, that the
                democratically-elected leader was corrupt, and that Musharraf
                could just have easily not supported the U.S. strike against
                the Taliban?
                \_ Pakistan needed an ally to offset India/China.  That has
                   nothing to do with the above line stating that this is
                   some wonderland where we always do the moral thing just
                   because it is the moral thing.  No one believes that.  It
                   is, as I said, a big fat strawman and now you're just
                   trying, and failing, to change the subject.
        \_ Pakistan has one of the best spy agency outside the super-power
           state.  I really think Mussharif knows a lot more than he is
           willing to admit.
           \- i suspect pakistan's spy agency as a pretty limited set of
              objectives. --psb
              \_ 1) know what India is doing, 2) protect bin Laden and other
                 al Qaeda people, 3) know what is going on in the disputed
                 territories, 4) fuck shit up in disputed territories, 5) send
                 hit squads into Indian parliament.  5 isn't so many, I guess.
2004/1/30 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:12024 Activity:very high
1/29    HEY MOTD Censor.  Do you think the fact that people are actually
        actively debating on a thread might be a hint that people want
        to fucking talk about it?  STOP DELETING THE POLITICS!
        \_ you can masturbate in private.
           \_ yes, but the motd censor is an asshole in public.
           \_ if we're talking about something that doesn't interest you, you
              can safely ignore it.  you're not being forced to read or
              participate or even read the motd at all.  grow up.  the motd
              isn't your personal playground where you set the topics.  go
              open your own website if you want to censor free and open debate
              and discussion.
2004/1/30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:12025 Activity:nil 61%like:29770
1/29      Looking through some Perl files, and I noticed some files with
          a line consisting of just a "1;" at the end.  What does that
          mean?  - perl newbie
        \_ return code.
           \_ thanks.
        \_ When you "require" another file, it runs through and expects a
           "true" value at the end.  ergo, 1;.  It's in effect a return code,
           but for a different reason.
           \_ thanks, makes sense now.
2004/1/30-31 [Computer/HW/Memory] UID:12028 Activity:nil
1/29    Does DDR-SDRAM run at twice the FSB? like does 333MHz DDR-SDRAM
        require a FSB of 166 or 333 MHz? I can't find a lucid explanation.
        \_ Yes.
2004/1/30-31 [Uncategorized] UID:12029 Activity:nil
1/29    If you happen to have a library book out (whether you checked it out
        or "borrowed it without informing anyone"), please bring it back to
        the office by this Saturday morning (January 31?).  I will be doing
        an inventory and barcoding books this weekend and would greatly
        prefer not having to handle books individually as they trickle in
        or randomly appear.
        Thank you, jvarga
2004/1/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12031 Activity:nil
1/30    What do you think would happen if the Democrats started publicly
        running on the claim "Bush will take away the right to abortion
        if he is reelected" ... and they just keep saying that over and
        over and over. --psb
        \_ You adorable little neocon, you. Still, it's funny that I haven't
               \- where did *that* come from? --psb
           heard anything about abortion, yet. Given W's clear intentions and
           how far they are from a sizable portion of the electorate, you'd
           think they'd be making more meat out of it. Maybe they don't want
           to touch it until after the national.
        \_ Very little. Those lines have already been drawn. Those who are
           pro-abortion and pro-Bush know it's possible and will fight the
           issue when it comes up, but it isn't enough to shift votes. The
           reverse is true too.
           \- look there is a general sense that "ooh bush owes some favors
              to the crazy right wingers" i am talking about taking the
              sort of sleazy "if the democrats get into offices the will
              spend a billion dollars to trawl the prisons for black serial
              rapist and subsized their relocation to saratoga, ca ... be
              afraid!" type tactics and using them against the Reps. It
              will be sort of hard to say "john kerry will sell texas to
              the communistas" since they just need to trot out john kerry
              walking into a freefire zone while bush is at happy hour eating
              pork rinds. you cant make something like capital punishment
              reform an issue. nor even gun control. abortion may be the
              one issue that will energize you lazy hedonistic liberals.
              my interest here is academic. you may wish to read "the 480".
                                                          --psb
2004/1/30-2/1 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/Virus] UID:12032 Activity:moderate
1/29  My roommate's computer (IE6) keeps getting all her requests for
      http://yahoo.com redirected to http://yeah.com.  She swears against all spyware.
      Any idea how to get rid of this?
      \_ http://security.kolla.de
         It's been recommended by many places.  This guy takes
         donations.
         \_ this is "Spybot" that the poster below mentions.
      \_ my gf's computer once had all search sites redirected in the
         hosts file.  i've also seen some weird dll's (ieXXX.dll) in the
         system32 (?) directory.  a reasonable virus scanner will catch the
         rogue DLL.
      \_ http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware
              \_ Adaware is nice, but it's not managed to find/ditch
                 a few nasty browser redirect "trojans" -John
      \_ SpyBot, too.  I install these two programs for everyone with
         a problem computer.  Your roommate's computer has spyware; and
         if she swears against it, then it was her evil boyfriend surfing
         gay porn sites (not that there's anything wrong with that) that
         infected her computer.
      \_ USE FIREBIRD
         \_ I've switched back from FireBird to IE. It doesn't have flash
            support by default, only works w/ 95% of websites (THIS SUCKS).
            \_ install the plug-in. big deal. I noticed the 5% @first, but
               I don't notice it anymore, and I never have to open IE to
               browse a site I have trouble with.  Sure, some sites look
               a little weird, but I can live with that, and as I said,
               it doesn't bother me.  The amenities of FB outweigh the
               inconvenience, imo.  Of course, 0.8 is due out very soon,
               so you could just wait, and not have to install once, then
               again 2 weeks later.
               \_ otoh, flash installer automatically detects mozilla.
         \_ How is firebird any better then Mozilla on any reasonably
            fast computer?
            \_ it's not really. there are some extras i guess, like ctrl-k
               googling, but nothing seriously better, and quite a few things
               seriously worse (of course, they don't claim to be production
               ready either).
        \_ Google says that you need to fix the hosts file, which not all
           spyware fixers correct.
2004/1/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:12033 Activity:nil
1/30    Someone asked about knives a while back. These aren't 5 star knives,
        but a good deal:
        http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009XFSI/ref%3Dnosim/slickdeals/002-3925468-0256826
        \_ what is a 5 star knife?  Certainly not henckels or wusthof.
           \_ wusthof has a $350 chef's knife. i hate ceramic knives. bite me.
           \_ "5 Star" is one of Henckels' lines.  I think the op was referring
              to knives of high quality, though.
        \_ Those look like crap to me.  They are full-tang riveted, but they
           are stamped, not forged, and made in China, which is not reknowned
           for their good knives.  Henckels and Wusthof make their better lines
           in Germany and the cheaper ones in China and Spain.  Stamped knives
           like these go dull quickly, and have fairly flexible blades, which
           makes them not very safe or easy to use.
           That being said, I have seen reasonably cheap Chinese knives on
           Amazon that were pretty good.  The key diference was that they were
           forged.  The easy way to tell is that the blade gets thicker near the
           top and has a lump of metal where the blade meets the handle.
2004/1/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:12034 Activity:nil
1/30    I really love how every thread that points out glaring faults with
        the Bush administration has as its response "Well, what about when
        Clinton did..."  Can we agree that both had their fuckups and their
        appearance of wag the dog and move on.  I think 500 dead troops and
        their families would want that. --scotsman
        \_ Except you are only admitting it retroactively.  Where was your
           foaming at the mouth when Billy was in power?
           \_ You call this foaming at the mouth?  Have you read some of your
              own crap below? --scotsman
              \_ This is beautiful, Ben.  You were just complaining about this
                 "well you do it too" line of reasoning a few lines above...
                 \_ You miss my point.  Again.  I reject you calling my
                    post "foaming at the mouth," and while I don't have proof
                    of who you are, because you don't sign, your rants on
                    Clinton are attrociously rabid. --scotsman
           \_ I for one WAS pissed when Clinton pulled this crap.  Clinton's
              wag-the-dog stuff was quite cheap by comparison and didn't cost
              any U.S. lives (not that Sudanese lives don't matter too) --!op
2004/1/30-31 [Science/Biology] UID:12035 Activity:nil
1/30    Georgia School Official Wants No 'Evolution'
        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109939,00.html
2004/1/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12036 Activity:high
1/30    The Real Way Presidential Elections Are Won:
        http://www.anesi.com/presname.htm
        \_ psb for President!
           \_ why doesn't psb use "\_" like everyone else? his "\-" is
              inferior and shows a selfish refusal to follow social
              convention. clearly not a team player.
2004/1/30-31 [Academia/UCLA] UID:12037 Activity:very high
1/30    Props to "She Bangs" on American Idol ... go Beahs!
        \- What the heck is this about?
           \_ It's about some lame ass guy on some lame ass show. It's
              better that you not get into it.
        \_ Some people wait a lifetime for this damn show to get off the air.
        \_ Hasn't this fucking show died yet?        \_ that's "Beah!"
                \_ Nope. Would you like to start a thread, ranting
                   and raving about that now?
        \_ Was he a Cal student? I thought he was UCLA.
           \_ UCB Civ Eng. Anyone here know him?
           \_ Same thing.
        \_ wow, someone actually paid a few bucks to register this domain.
           http://www.williamhung.net
2004/1/30-31 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12038 Activity:kinda low
1/30    States that pay out more in federal taxes voted for Gore, states that
        take in more in welfare benefit than they pay in tax voted for Bush:
        http://tinyurl.com/2zswk (nytimes link)
        \_ 'Cos if you're looking for sense, don't ask an American voter.
        \_ Democracy is two Republicans and a Democrat deciding who is
           for dinner.
2004/1/30-31 [Uncategorized] UID:12039 Activity:kinda low
1/30    What time is it?
        http://www.humanclock.com/clock.php
        \_ Why is this funny?
2004/1/30-31 [Science/Biology] UID:12040 Activity:insanely high
1/30    Speaking of liberal vs. conservative, what's with conservatives and
        biology education?
        http://csua.org/u/5s0
        \_ It's not even really "conservatives".  It's the fucking
           evangelicals.
           \_ The Republican party is at their beck and call. Change that or
              stop pretending there's a difference.
           \_ Who are a huge power base in the Republican party, and voted for
              Bush in record numbers, so he definitely owes them (84% of
              evangelicals voted for Bush in 2000, as opposed to 75% for
              Reagan).
        \_ I'm a conservative (not the libertarian kind).  Evolution can
           be explained, IMHO, but not as gospel truth as it is told
           today.  Offering other theories as very good alternatives is
           a great idea (it doesn't have to be the strict creationist view).
                \_ I demand equal time for my religious creation theory,
                   namely, that I created everything and therefore, you
                   are all my property and owe me homage and service.
           \_ creationism in any degree of strictness is a faith, not a theory.
              \_ earth created in 7 days is a strict view of creationism
                 (versus earth created over many many years)
                 \_ Any view of creationism is based on faith.
                    A view that doesn't hold God to 7 literal days might
                    at least be compatible with the physical evidence,
                    but that doesn't make it a theory.  -tom
                    \_ Accepting evolution with the kind of defensive
                       vehemence I commonly see among bio types has to
                       be based on faith too.  Where do bacteria
                       come from?  I don't have to be a religious nut
                       to be a creationist, nor do I have to be a
                       creationist to be sceptical about evolution.
                       I can postulate some hitherto unknown
                       mechanism for the creation of 'bacterial
                       nanobots' without invoking the ugly F
                       word.
                         -- ilyas
                       \_ tell us about the stars, ilyas
                       \_ Being skeptical and flat out rejecting are
                          (obviously) two very different behaviors.
                          --scotsman
                          \_ I was addressing Tom's claim that any view
                             of creationism is based on faith, which is
                             a false claim. -- ilyas
                             \_ Then you haven't made the point.  Do you
                                have emperical evidence to base some view
                                of creationism upon?  Or is this one of those
                                "unknown unknowns" discussions?  Also, as
                                the person below pointed out, evolution doesn't
                                even attempt to explain the origin of life.
                                    \_ by the way, "jove /etc/motd.public"
                                       also doesn't provide privacy
                                       protection, gmartin.  -tom
                                --scotsman
                             \_ How is "some hitherto unknown mechanism"
                                different from God?  Unless you're talking
                                about a physical process we don't understand
                                yet.  There are plenty of plausible theories
                                as to how protein structures first started
                                replicating themselves which don't require
                                a deus ex machina.  -tom
                                \_ I am not aware of any theory which presents
                                   an unbroken line which starts with chemicals
                                   and ends with bacteria (the simplest form
                                   of life not counting oddly devolved
                                   borderline cases like viruses).  There is
                                   also no evidence for any such chain to give
                                   us hints.  Currently, I conclude that either
                                   life arose somewhere where such a record
                                   does exist (Mars?) and moved here via
                                   spores, or we got pollinated by ET or God or
                                   something like that.  I don't reject the
                                   existence of God, so having to fall back
                                   on something like that as a possibility
                                   doesn't bother me, except in a sense that
                                   it makes a hypothesis inelegant (but not
                                   unfalsifiable, necessarily). -- ilyas
                                   \_ OK, fair enough--you can believe
                                      absurd things without believing in
                                      creationism.  Is that your point?  -tom
                       \_ It's not "based on faith". Evolution doesn't
                          specifically cover the origin of the first life.
                          It's about *evolution*. We obviously don't have
                          a lot of evidence about the earliest life, or
                          how similar that was to bacteria.
                    \_ possible theories/views:
                        a. earth created in 7 days
                        b. Evolution
                        c. certainly there should be many other theories
                           not covering a) or b)
                        \_ There's also the "aged earth" theory. Similar to
                           how Adam was created with the appearance of a
                           grown man, rather than an infant, so too the earth
                           was created with the appearance of age.
                           \_ That's not a theory--it's completely
                              tautological.  "The physical world was created
                              by God exactly the way it is now."  It's
                              impossible to prove or disprove, because
                              it doesn't do anything at all to attempt
                              to *explain* the physical world, which is what
                              a theory does.  -tom
                              \_ 'Theories which can not be tested are
                                                   critical
                                                   examination. They should be
                                                   taught to examine everything
                                 philosophies.'
                                                   thumpers
                                                      with mentioning its
                                                   are the only ones trying to
                                                   suppress knowledge.
                           \_ And the dinosaur bones were planted by god to
                              tempt the weak of faith....  If we're going to
                              go down this route, let's remember the good
                              Bishop Berkeley who wrote that we are all but
                              thoughts in the mind of god; there's as much
                              evidence for that as there is for creationism.
                        \_ you overwrote my post. use motdedit.
                           \_ sorry.  but motdedit has no privacy protections
                              \_ why does it have any less privacy protection
                                 than "jove /etc/motd.public".  It doesn't
                                 log accesses, and if you don't want to
                                 wait in queue, then use motdedit -n
                                 \_ where is motdedit?
                                    /csua/bin/motdedit
                                    /csua/bin/motdedit -h for help
                              \_ and when you're a complete moron, you need
                                 privacy protections, eh?
                                 "earth created in 7 days" is not a theory.
                                 It's not supported by a single observable
                                 fact.  It might have been a hypothesis at one
                                 point, and now it's been shown to be false
                                 by the vast preponderance of physical
                                 evidence.  -tom
                                 \_ look.  I'm not a supporter of a.
                                    I'm thinking more about the lines of
                                    b) and c) above.  Schools tend to
                                    teach b) as gospel truth.
                                    \_ yes, tom found me out.
                                    \_ They also teach Physics as gospel
                                       truth.  There's about as much
                                       evidence for evolution as for
                                                reason.
                                                \_ I think you don't realize
                                                   how much our understanding
                                       that model, so why do conservatives
                                       suddenly start hedging their bets
                                       when the subject of biology comes up?
                                          we should teach the first tier
                                          theories first.
                                                - yet another poster
                                                   of the laws of physics
                                                   changes all the time. Does
                                                   the discovery of a new type
                                                   of quark invalidate GR?
                                             \_ There is a theory that
                                                birds are descendants of
                                                dinosaurs.  It is a low
                                                tier theory because while
                                                there are evidence supporting
                                                it and evidence countering
                                                it.  Macro evolution is
                                                lower tier than our many
                                                laws of physics for the same
                                       that model, so why do conservatives
                                       suddenly start hedging their bets
                                       when the subject of biology comes up?
                                       \_ not all conservatives believe
                                          in 7 day creationism.
                                    \_ they teach evolution just like they
                                       teach any other scientific theory.
                                       Why should it be singled out?
                                       \_ There are many tiers of

                                          theories based on how strong
                                          the evidence is.  theory of
                                          gravity is first tier.  theory
                                          of evolution is second tier
                                          or third tier depending on
                                          which part of this complex
                                          theory you are talking about.
                                          In particular, macroevolution
                                          is much weaker than micro-
                                          evolution.  I am not against
                                          teaching evolution but we need
                                          to mention the holes in it
                                          when teaching it.  And all
                                          other factors being equal,
                                          we should teach the first tier
                                          theories first.
                                                - yet another poster
                                          \_ I agree.
                                          \_ Why don't they teach the holes in
                                             Christianity? Actually, they're not
                                             "holes" so much as "tenets incon-
                                             sistent with scientific facts".
                                             Evolutionary theory is pretty well
                                             established. There isn't any theory
                                             that is 100% known and hole-free.
                                             \_ Christianity does not claim
                                                that it could be empirically
                                                proven.  Yea, I agree that
                                                a woman giving birth without
                                                having sex is inconsistent
                                                with scientific facts.  Is
                                                that your point?
                                             \_ Are you interested in
                                                teaching our kids to
                                                examine evolutionary theory
                                                critically, or are you more
                                                interested in covering up
                                                its holes so as to use it
                                                to advance your anti-
                                                Christianity agenda?
                                                \_ Science is all about
                                                   critical examination.
                                                   They should be taught
                                                   to examine everything
                                                   critically. The bible-
                                                   thumpers are the only
                                                   ones trying to suppress
                                                   knowledge.
                                                   \_ don't forget the
                                                      anti-Christian fanatics
                                                      who want to teach
                                                      evolution theory
                                                      without mentioning its
                                                      flaws.
                                                      \_ I haven't seen any
                                                         evidence that anyone
                                                         wants to hide "flaws"
                                                         in evolution.  -tom
                                                         \_
                                                Really?  I have.
                                                let's put it this way,
                                                I won't tell my kids birds
                                                are descended from dinosaurs
                                                and I don't feel
                                                that our educational system
                                                should tell my kids that
                                                humans are descended
                                                from amoeba without
                                                presenting it as a theory
                                                with very significant holes.
                                                \_ you haven't specified any
                                                   of the holes.
                                                   \_ well, I haven't
                                                      heard anyone say
                                                      why it is a good
                                                      theory either.  Go
                                                      pick up a book or
                                                      stfw if you want to
                                                      go into the details.
                                                      \_ Sounds like you're
                                                         the one who needs to
                                                         pick up a book.
                                                \_ I see what your issue is,
                                                   now.  The fact that *you*
                                                   don't understand something
                                                   doesn't mean that the
                                                   theory is bad.  -tom
                                                   \_ Do *you* understand
                                                      everything about it?
                                                      If not, how did you
                                                      conclude that the
                                                      theory is good?
                                                \_ All the evidence so far
                                                   indicates that birds are
                                                   descended from dinos. While
                                                   I agree that we need to
                                                   teach children to question
                                                   I think it's pigheadedness
                                                   to deny that the argument
                                                   for birds being descended
                                                   from dinos is strong.
                                          \_ I don't think you can say that
                                             the Theory of Gravity (do you
                                             really mean to say General
                                             Relativity?) is any stronger or
                                             weaker than the Theory of
                                             Evolution. Both are subject
                                             to modification in light of
                                             new information. Both have
                                             a tremendous body of evidence
                                             supporting them. If anything,
                                             The Theory of Evolution is
                                             more important because of its
                                             larger impact on societies
                                             view of itself and probably
                                             it is more important to teach
                                             it. -biophysics grad
                                             \_ There is a theory that
                                                birds are descendants of
                                                dinosaurs.  It is a low
                                                tier theory because while
                                                there are evidence supporting
                                                it and evidence countering
                                                it.  Macro evolution is
                                                lower tier than our many
                                                laws of physics for the same
                                                reason.  As for importance,
                                                sure (that's why I said
                                                "all other factors being
                                                equal" above), but we need
                                                to becareful here because
                                                its very importance makes
                                                its teaching subject to
                                                non-science related pressures
                                                from all sides.
                                                \_ I think you don't realize
                                                   how much our understanding
                                                   of the laws of physics
                                                   changes all the time. Does
                                                   the discovery of a new type
                                                   of quark invalidate GR?
                                                   \_ You miss the point.
                                                      Let me ask you this:
                                                      Do you agree that some
                                                      theories are stronger
                                                      than others?  If you
                                                      do, we have no
                                                      disagreement.  If your
                                                      point is that your
                                                      knowledge of physics
                                                      is better than mine,
                                                      I agree with you.
                              \_ If you're not going to use motdedit, at least
                                 have the courtesy to run an editor that can
                                 tell you when changes have been made to the
                                 file, then copy your work, exit w/o saving,
                                 reopen the file, and paste your work. I don't
                                 use motdedit, but I don't overwrite other
                                 people's posts, either.
        \_ is there such a thing as a Jewish Creationist?
           \_ http://www.orot.com/ec.html#Anchor-19500
        \_ http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/evotmline.html
           there are darwinians, neo-darwinians, and non-darwinians.
2004/1/30-31 [Recreation/Food] UID:12041 Activity:nil
1/30    Subway or Quiznos?
        \_ Quiznos.  Unless you like cold sandwiches.
           \_ Seconded.
        \_ Quiznos seem to be much more filling than Subway
        \_ Quiznos >> Subway
           \_ append Quiznos to Subway?
        \_ any Quiznos near the UCB area?
           \_ On Center near the Bongo Burger and Neutron Donuts.
              \_ Bongo burger is still alive (and popular?)
                 \_ Yes.  What's wrong with Bongo Burger?
                    \_ I think it is great that it has been there for a
                        long time.
                        \_ !Viva lamb sandwich!
        \_ Quiznos by a longshot
        \_ Togo's easily beats them both. Quizno's is basically Subway
           that has been toasted.  Better, but not much better.
           \_ Quiznos doesn't use pressed meats.  Much better.
           \_ No, Quizno's is better than Togo's. I only go to Togo's
              occasionally because it's right next to work. Togo's bread
              isn't good.
2004/1/30-31 [Consumer/Camera] UID:12042 Activity:nil
1/30    Question on digital camera flash card format:  Which one do you
        prefer?  I'm finally thinking of getting a digital camera.  Some of
        the cards like xD or SD are really small.  Too small for me.  Only
        the compact flash seems to be big enough to put a small label so
        that I know what's in side.  Is that even possible with all the other
        smaller cards?  If you have one of those, where do you keep it if
        you're on the road or at home?  Seems like it can be lost very
        easily.  Thanks.
        \_Choose your camera first, sd is small but you really only need
          one extra card.  That is to say one large card (because the one
          they generally give you WILL be too small).  Once you have a larger
          card, don't buy more, just buy a x-drive or something (portable hd
          with a card reader). -scottyg
        \_ why don't you choose your camera first?
           \_ I have an olympus film camera.  Stylus.  I like it.  I thought
              of getting the same stylus digital camera.  It doesn't come with
              CF storage.  What to do?  If card format is an big enough issue
              I need to switch brands.  Just trying to poll you guys on what
              you think.  Thanks.
              \_ my opinion: choose camera first.  storage is a secondary
                 consideration.
        \_ memory stick is teh suck
        \_ CF is big (physically and byte-wise) and cheap.  SD has good
           compatability with PDAs and MP3 players.
2004/1/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12043 Activity:moderate
1/30    Are there really that many people on the motd who like Bush? Most
        conservatives I talk to don't have much respect for him, but like him
        more than the Howard Dean / Kerry liberal bunch.
        \_ yes, I like Bush.  But true conservatives might think he is too
           liberal, but they would rather have Bush than Dean/Kerry or
           any democrat.
        \_ don't really care much for Bush, he's okay but no Reagan. He seems
           to be able to relate to people though. I didn't care much for his
           father either. I think his cabinet and his internal staff are
           pretty sharp though, even if you disagree with Wolfowitz and the
           neocons. You gotta hand it to them, they sure know how to engineer
           policy. I tend to think that the 2nd Bush era will be remembered
           for its ability to exploit current events well, something that
           Clinton never learned and GB Sr. only learned too late.
           \_ Reagan > Bush >>>>>>>>>>>> Dean/Kerry/Democrat
              \_ With a nuanced argument like that, who needs to think for
                 themselves!  Viva la Bush!
                 \_ it's not an argument.  it's an expression of a view.
        \_ okay, why do you people like Bush?  He doesn't stand for the values
           Republicans are /supposed/ to believe in (minimal government
           interference in the lives of citizens; goverment is more Big
           Brotherly than it was before), and he keeps making more enemies for
           the U.S..
           Brotherly than it was before), he keeps making more enemies for
           the U.S., and he lied about the war.
2004/1/30 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:29769 Activity:nil
1/29    sed help.  How do I take a file, and replace all newlines/returns with
        spaces, so that a multi-line file becomes one long line?
        ideally, something like sed "s/$\N/ /g", but this doesn't work.
        \_ need you use sed?  tr works too:  cat /etc/motd | tr -d '\n'
           \_ thanks that rocks.
              \- unless you need to batch process a whole lot of files,
                 you should learn to use emacs for this kind of thing.
                 query-replace function or something like
                 C-u 1000 C-xf [set-fill-column] M-q [fill-paragraph] --psb
                 \- i note in passing you need some reasonable understanding
                    of how sed works in terms of the pattern spaces and
                    reading in lines of data to use newline matching correctly
                    (it's like understanding perl chop and chomp issues ...
                    sed normally chops off the newline for you before
                    presenting for processing but then add it back in
                    for the output printing routine). there are a lot
                    of version-dependencies in sed which will also
                    drive you insane. --psb
                    \- since you asked --psb
                     /vol/pub/sed-4.0.8/bin/sed ':a;N;$\!ba;s/\n//g' /etc/motd
2004/1/30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:29770 Activity:nil 61%like:12025
1/29    Looking through some Perl files, and I noticed some files with
        a line consisting of just a "1;" at the end.  What does that
        mean?  - perl newbie
        \_ return code.
           \_ thanks.
        \_ When you "require" another file, it runs through and expects a
           "true" value at the end.  ergo, 1;.  It's in effect a return code,
           but for a different reason.
           \_ thanks, makes sense now.
2004/1/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:29771 Activity:nil
1/29      Condi attacks WMD critics, spouts usual line:
          "The president's judgment to go to war was based on the fact that
           Saddam Hussein had for 12 years defied the international community."
          C'mon, Condi, we defied the international community because they
          defied the international community?
          http://csua.org/u/5rh
2004/1/30-31 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:29772 Activity:nil
1/30    Was Larry Wall a real person?
        \_ Still is.
        \_ He was when he autographed my 1st. Ed. Programming Perl.
        \_ Yes, I was.  --Larry Wall
           \- "I AM" --lwall@netlabs.com
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:January:30 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>