Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:January:17 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/1/17 [ERROR, uid:11813, category id '18005#5.21625' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11813 Activity:nil
1/16    So why is it okay for Rush to call Hillary "Hitlery" but not
        okay for moveon to compare Bush to Hitler?
        \_ Who said it was ok for Rush to do that?
           \_ the troll who started this thread, who also doesn't seem to
              understand that moveon isn't comparing Bush to Hitler--moveon
              held a contest where anyone on the net could submit a 30-second
              ad spot, and one or two of the spots compared Bush to Hitler.
              They were never selected nor endorsed by moveon.  -tom
        \_ Hillary is a shrieking hag.
           \_ sig heil, der fuhrer hillary!
        \_ To me, niether is wrong; both are just kinda stupid.  However,
           there does seem to be a difference in tone about it.  Rush is
           trying to make a silly name.  (He's more of a stand-up act than
           a political commentator)  The Democrats I've heard were really
           trying to convince people Bush was Hitler reborn.
2004/1/17 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:11814 Activity:nil
1/16    Food for thought: If Hitler had won WW2, Bush would be saying
        "The Evil Allies" instead of "The Evil Axis". Yet another useless
        thought provided you by Motd of the Day.
        \_ If Hitler had won, there wouldn't be a US govt, right?
           \_ Depends.  The odds that Germany could have actually taken over
              the entire world was rather minimal.  They just didn't have
              enough men.  If you don't have an armed soldier standing on a
              piece of land, you don't control it.  More likely, the US and
              Germany would have ended up in a stalemate where neither could
              cross the oceans to do any serious harm until technology had
              advanced a great deal.  You'd have a German/US Cold War instead
              of a USSR/ US one.  Hitler would eventually have been
              assassinated or dropped dead and someone less psychotic would
              take over and the German Empire would fall apart, a la the USSR.
              History has a funny way of staying the same even in what-if?
              \_ Sometimes one wonders which would have been an easier bad
                 guy: USSR or the Axis states...
2004/1/17-19 [Uncategorized] UID:11815 Activity:nil
1/16    Has anyone else been prompted to read the warped-looking word
        when trying to send messages from yahoo?
        \_ No, only when signing up for an account.
        \_ Once, but only once.
        \_ I did a few days ago for a few times, but not anymore.
2004/1/17 [Recreation/Activities, Recreation/Dating] UID:11816 Activity:nil
1/16    "FIFA president calls for sexier women's uniforms"
        How much more politically incorrect can one get?  As much as I love to
        see the change he proposes, I don't think it's the right thing to do.
        If I want to see nice thighs, I go watch women's vollyball.  If I want
        to see even more, I go watch women's beach vollyball.
        \_ What you people seem to like to forget is that professional
           sports exist to sell products.  It's not about athleticism, it's
           not about providing some positive example to get kids into sports,
           it's about MAKING MONEY.  That's it.   This isn't some kids'
           soccer league.  If you guys want to get pissed about something,
           get pissed that public monies go to support stadiums for these
           assholes, not about the details of how they run their business.
        \_ Why is it ok that those sports have women bouncing and jouncing
           around?  How much more politically incorrect can you get?  Either
           the women in all these sports should run around half naked and
           bouncing or they should wear professional non-skimpy sports
           quality uniforms.  You're a hypocrite.
           \_ Yes I'm a hypocrite.  As much as I love to watch those, they are
              not okay either.
        \_ Why does this quote amuse me so much:
                FIFA spokesman Andreas Herren said Friday that Blatter
                never mentioned the word ``hot pants.''
           \_ Because you're childish and immature?
2004/1/17-18 [Reference/Tax] UID:11817 Activity:nil
        See how taxes have changed over time.  From this, it looks as though
        2001 taxes effectively shifted some burden from the very rich to the
        sort-of-rich, leaving the poor untouched.
        \_ actually if you look at that report, the super rick more than
           doubled their share of income, while their tax rates only raised
           by 50 percent.  Also that seems to be income tax alone.  Does that
           count for such things as capital gains or property taxes?  Stuff
           that has some pretty significant cuts over the years?
        \_ This chart does not include "payroll" tax, which is almost as
           large as income tax, and has regressivity. Nor any of the
           other taxes, which hit lower income people harder (percentage
        \_ Sorry OP, but it looks like people on both ends of the spectrum
        \_ Sorry OP, but it looks like people both both ends of the spectrum
           think your chart is a load of crap.  Maybe next time....
2004/1/17-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:11818 Activity:nil
1/16    motd hozers (all worship the great 'motdedit' or die!):
        \_ Where the hell is motdedit?
           \_ /csua/bin/motdedit
           \_ /csua/bin/motdedit or /csua/bin/me
              apparently someone doesn't know about symlinks
Boredcast Message from 'mehlhaff': Fri Jan 16 15:26:05 2004
frankly, if I waited for a lock with 'me' and when I'm done editing and vi
still says the file changed before my write, its tough cookies time. I'm writing
it out.

Boredcast Message from 'ausman': Fri Jan 16 15:41:25 2004
i am the same way mehlhaff and i have gotten flamed for it

Boredcast Message from 'mehlhaff': Fri Jan 16 15:42:18 2004
how can you get flamed for following an established convention for accessing
the motd with an attempt to keep from colliding with others writes.

the ones who need flames are
1) the idlehozers who lock the motd and go idle
2) the punks who edit the motd even when it is locked.

Boredcast Message from 'mehlhaff': Fri Jan 16 15:43:49 2004
actually they dont need flames, they need beatings.

Boredcast Message from 'jon': Fri Jan 16 15:44:14 2004
or selective editing of their dotfiles
not that i'd ever actually advocate that
\_ Unless mehlhaff has bulked up quite a bit since I last met him (in '92),
   I'd advise him to hire someone else to do the beatings. --erikred
   \_ who says you need to bulk up to administer beatings?  A good set of
      stocks or other restraints make the job soo much easier.  Applied of
      course, by the motd-convention-enforcement goon squad.
      \_ Sounds like someone's taken that "hire someone else" idea to the
         next level. --erikred
\_ Sometimes I suspend my editor. Motdedit can't deal with that. So, I won't
   use motdedit. It was also frequently locked to no reason by others. I think
   a better system is one where users edit their own copies and then use a merge
   program. This is what I do and it works great, except for the fixable problem
   of it not dealing properly with conflicts (when I add a reply on the same
   line as someone else, it should just concatenate).
   \_ Is it really that hard to use an editor that detects when changes have
      been made since you started editing a document, copying your changes,
      exiting the document, pasting your changes back in, and saving the newly
      changed document?  How lazy are you?
      \_ Not as lazy as the guy who won't even use motdedit, obviously.
         \_ Then there are people like me who was trying to be courteous by
            using motdedit and avoid stomping on other posts if the file changed
            while editing.  Then without thinking I suspended my editor and left
            motdedit hung.  I took a lot of flak for it (though no one contacted
            me until someone actually killed my process).  It's just not worth
            the hassle so I don't use it anymore.  It only works if everyone
            uses it.  That, and it makes people like mehlhaff think it isn't
            necessary to be courteous if they use it. -emarkp
            \_'re the one who suspended your editor for a sizable
               amount of time while you had an exclusive lock on a shared
               resource, and mehlhaff is the one being discourteous?  -tom
               \_ You're an idiot. Thank you for playing. Play Again (y/N)?__
               \_ Courtesy has everything to do with intent.  My holding the
                  lock was unintentional.  Had it been pointed out to me
                  directly I would have rectified the problem immediately.  Once
                  I did notice, I fixed the problem.  Had I been intentionally
                  holding the lock, that would have been discourteous.  To make
                  sure I don't do that again in the future, I no longer use
                  motdedit, and I don't overwrite others' comments. -emarkp
      \_ No, it's actually easier (emacs C-x C-v). But there is also a loss of
         anonymity there. Anyway laziness is a virtue.
         \_ a loss of anonymity where?
            \_ If everyone used me, it's possible to track posts by who has the
               file open. Especially if they sit with it open for a long time
         \_ How do you do this in vi?
            \_ In VIM at least, you will get a warning if you try to save and
               the file has been changed.  My typical use is to yank my comment
               if I get a warning, then reload the file, then repaste my
               \_ So after you wait 5 minutes for a lock, then have someone
                  change the file out from under you, you save your edits
                  and get in line again for another lock? No thank you.
                  \_ Dummy, it's an open file.  There's no requirement that you
                     wait for a lock.  And no one "saved their edits under
                     yours".  Repeat after me: "world writable file".
                     \_ There is no requirement that I not ovewrite your
                        changes either. You are a lazy hozer and deserve
                        to be overwritten.
                  \_ Um, no I don't a first or second time.  I don't use
                     motdedit, hence I start editing, and if the file changes I
                     simply do a manual merge. -emarkp
   \_ This is a big problem with motdedit.  There's a solution, it hasn't been
      implemented yet, however. Give it time.
      \_ well when it is implemented, let us know and we'll have something to
         talk about.  in the meantime you motdedit fascists can go stick your
         head in a pig.  motdedit is just a way for people with no system fu
         to figure out who is editing the motd.  the locking mechanism is an
         unnecessary joke.
   \_ just curious: how does motdedit not handle suspending?
      \_ motdedit has a process that times out the lock after 10 minutes.  However,
         if the editor is suspended, motdedit is suspended(SIGSTP), and the perl
         script no longer counts off 10 minutes.
         \_ can motdedit be written to catch SIGSTP?  So that it might
            handle it or kill itself off even, if necessary.
2004/1/17-19 [Computer/SW/Apps/Media, Computer/SW/Graphics] UID:11819 Activity:nil
1/16    Don't know if this has made the rounds yet:
        "Sand Animation" It's a video of drawing images using sand over
        a lit surface. Sorry, .wmv only. -bz
        \_ any non-streaming file for us firewalled/slow link folks?
           \_ /csua/tmp/sandAnimation.wmv
        \_ Hadn't seen them before -- Thanks for the link. Though I
           found I prefered the sand animation films on the artists site:
        \_ that is some lame ass sh*t
           \_ troll?  (I thought it very impressive)
              \_ Simply idiotic.  Don't grant the name of thought to what can
                 be attributed to mere stupidity.
              \_ Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I liked it too.
2004/1/17-19 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:11820 Activity:nil
1/17    I had a pipe leak in my apartment, and the lower floor was completely
        soaked.  I tried to force dry it, but it still smells like saltmarsh
        in my livingroom.  Is there anything I can do to get the stench out
        aside from airing it out or burning my unit to the ground?  TIA.
        \_ It's stories like these that make me glad that I no longer live
           in Berkeley.
           \_ Not living in Berkeley.  Stuff sometimes just happens, you know?
        \_ I have no useful advice, but this reminds me of a funny story.
           someone I know had the pressure go up in the sewar pipes enough
           to force all the shit from his apartment building up into his
           bathroom, all over the floor.  there were turds in the bathtub
           and all around.  He busted a hole in the floor with a tire iron
           and an axe, and the shit went down into the landlord's office
           in the basement.  he'd already tried getting
           the landlord to respond and get a plumber for quite a
           while, but in true slumlord fashion, there was no response
           and all he had was a pager number.  true story.
        \_ There must be detergents that should be able to get it clean...
           cuz there are like some chemicals that can get the stench of
           housepet urine out of carpets.... there's probably still going
           to be residual damage regardless.
        \_ The same thing happened to my basement a couple weeks ago. If
           your lower floor has wall-to-wall carpeting, the carpet & pad
           (and any other soaked fabric material) should be thrown away.
        \_ You need to contact your landlord and get them to replace the
           carpet and pads.  There's a mold hazard there and you tell him if
           he doesn't take care of it you're going to file complaints with the
           city and with his insurance carrier.
        \_ You can disinfect it by peeing on the floor.
           \_ rm?  is that you, being a punk again?
           \_ How/Why does urine stink up a room for so long?
                \_ How do you know - have you tried?
        \_ When I was thinking about buying a stinky cat-urined house, I
           found info on some product that you could use to get the stench
           out. It might work with human stenches, too. Don't remember what
           it was called, but I'm sure you can google for it.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:January:17 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>