Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:December:24 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2003/12/24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/Military] UID:11579 Activity:high
12/23   Regards to Nurenberg Trial.  Nurenberg is just an instrument for
        the victors to humilate and extract values from the defeated enemy.
        This is why none of the Allie forces ever got tried for the atrocity
        they commited.  This includes looting of Nazi treasury and art
        collection (which still sits in the National Archive in Washingon DC),
        as well as  includes nuclear bombing, fire bombing,
        and all the carpet bombing we performed on civilians.

        This is also the reason why some of the Nazi units, noticebly the
        African Corp and the Nazi Navy, who fought the war with extremely
        high degree of professionalism, also got tried and convicted by
        the Nurenberg.

        This is also the reason why Emporer of Japan, who ultimately
        started the Asian front of World War 2, didn't get tried as a
        war criminal.  Ridiculously, last emperor of China was tried
        as a war criminal for being a puppet of Japanese Empire.

        Then, there is the story of Unit 731 of Japanese Army, who used
        civilians and POWs to test chemical/biological weapon.None of them
        were even tried because they made a deal with USA.  In exchange for
        their freedom, they gave USA  the test results of these chemical/
        biological weapon experiments using human subjects.

        There is nothing perplex about Nurenberg once you accept the fact
        that it is nothing more than instruement to enhance US and British
        interest.   If you try to think in the line of administering justice,
        then you will have serious problems.
                        -- a Chinese who has no sympathy toward Japan,
                           but still think nuclear bombing is wrong.
        \_ To the victor, go the spoils.  So fucking what?  And as far as
           American still thinking of China as a subject state, again, so
           fucking what?  If it was the other way around, the Chinese wouldn't
           be sitting around wondering how they can sell us more Big Macs.
           They'd have destroyed our country and our children right through
           college would be learning about how the Great Leader Mao saved us
           from our Imperalist Oppressors and it only cost us DC, LA, and
           Chicago, but hey they were all bastions of evil capitalists anyway.
           Take your Chinese troll to some place that gives a shit.  When
           you're a citizen you can vote and then your opinion will matter
           to someone.  Or you can go home and vote there, but, oh no, wait,
           sorry, you can't vote there.  No one can vote there.
           \_ Of course you can vote there, moron!  You can vote "yes" or
           \_ Yes you can vote there, moron!  You can vote "yes" or "yes".
        \_ Can you elaborate on the Nazi units with extremely high degree of
           professionalism part?  Thx.
                \_ think he means no rampage of killing, no sniper, no
                   sabotage, etc, that they fought according to the book &
                   followed the Geneva Convention of treating US soldiers
                   with respect.
                   \_ Heh.  Snipers are unprofessional now?
                      Are you on crack?  Should we go back to the civil war
                      era of gentleman wars where people marched around in
                      tightly packed formations, and targetting officers
                   with respect.
                      was considered poor sportsmanship?  wtf
        \_ Frankly as an American with both of my grandfather's fighting in
           in WWII I don't give a fuck what you think.  That said, in the
           battle for Okinawa over 250,000 died.  Extrapolate those numbers
           to Kyushu and then the home island...
           Japan had its entire Army intact in China, and the
           Soviets were days from entering the war.  Had they, Japan and
           China would likely still be partitioned like the Koreas.
           Furthermore it was impractical to move the millions of needed
           troops out of Europe because of the Soviet threat.  One could
           go on and on...
           \_ Partition was unnecessary.  It end up being partitioned
              as result of USA and USSR splits the spoils of the war,
              treating the Chinese as nothing more than their Imperialistic
              subjects.  This mentality still exist today in the mind of
2003/12/24-25 [Health/Disease/General] UID:11580 Activity:high
12/23   What is the purpose of a fever? Does a higher temperature kill viruses
        or something?
        \_ Most of the enzymes in your body are highly tuned to operate at
           a temperature of 98.6 (or so).  Viruses take over normal
           cellular machinery and convert them into producing more virii.
           Raise the temperature, and "normal" cellular machinery slows down,
           and the virii can't reproduce as fast with their commandeered
           equipment.  The immune system cells, though, have enzymes which
           work faster at the higher temperature.  So, the virii reproduce
           slower, and the immune system works faster, at higher temp.
           \_ There is no such word: "virii"  The correct word is:  viruses.
           \_ so, why do people want to lower the temperature with tylenol and
              wet towel on the head?
              \_ Accoring to the link below, you have a point but some people
                 have also died of persistent fever.
                 \_ I'd rather be sick for a little while longer than brain my
                    \_ looks like you're too late.
                    \_ So I was trying to prove this via Google (that over 98.7
                       kills brain cells). I know that higher temp kills sperms,
                       but I can't find proof that it'll kill brain cells. You
                       got a URL for this?
                       \_ "This is your brain on drugs".
                       \_ High fevers can cause brain damage.  Like 104 degrees
                \_ so, why do people want to lower the temperature with
                   tylenol and wet towel on the head?
                   \_ Accoring to the link below, you have a point but some
                      people have also died of persistent fever.
                   \_ I'd rather be sick for a little while longer than brain
                      my damage.
                        \_ So I was trying to prove this via Google (that
                           over 98.7 kills brain cells). I know that higher
                           temp kills sperms, but I can't find proof that
                           it'll kill brain cells. You got a URL for this?
                          and higher.
2003/12/24-25 [Health/Disease/General] UID:11581 Activity:low
        First case of mad cow disease found in the US.  This is a Bad Thing.
        Anyone who read Fast Food Nation should not be in the least bit
        surprised by this.
        \_ Only the brain, spinal cord, and lower part of the intestine of the
           infected cow are discarded.  The rest still entered the food supply!
           \_ Actually the inected parts were "rendered" which means they
              go back into the beef food supply. There is no way that BSE
              can occur in just one cow. This isn't isolated
        \_ "MOOOOOOOH!!!"  "Ack, it's atacking me!"  "MOOOH MOOH MOOH!"  "..."
        \_ buy EMRG, ICGE
           \_ acronym explanationP
                \_ search on yahoo finance.  Fuck and I bought ICGE at 0.44.
                  \_ Blackboard IPO announcement soon.
        \_ Time to STOP feeding cows with left-over cow parts.
        \_ I love that the administration felt the need to let everyone know
           that there wasn't a terrorist link.  Can't you jsut imagine those
           evil Arabs sneaking around Washington feeding cows slabs of beef?
           \_ Idiot.  All you'd have to do with walk around a farm with crap
              on your shoes from an infected UK farm.  What is it about the
              motd that brings out the most truly ignorant people to rant the
              loudest about things they know less than nothing about in such
              a self righteous way?
              \_ You'd actually have to have quite a quantity of BSE agent
                (usually brain tissue with enough prions in it) and feed it
                to the cow to cause BSE. BSE isn't spread through contact,
        \_ they should have stopped feeding cows with left-over cow parts.
                but through heavy ingestion of the prion. In reality, BSE
                isn't that easy to spread, but the problem is that it takes
                literally years for the first symptoms to appear, so most
                likely what has been happening is that cowfeed contains
                cow, which contains trace amounts of BSE. Since cows are
                being continually fed cows the BSE builds up, and then you
                reach a critical point and you have whole herds with BSE.
                Before you start calling people idiots perhaps it would be
                prudent if you actually studied the biochemistry of BSE.
              \_ That's not how MAD COW spreads. Perhaps you have it confused
                 with hoof&mouth disease?
              \_ Evil Arabs With Muddy Shoes!
2003/12/24-25 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:11582 Activity:nil
12/13   California energy "crisis" was a scam:
        \_ Well no FUCKING SHIT.
        \_ Seriously, did you just figure this out?  Is this the first time
           you've heard the name "Enron"?  You need to stop playing so much
           nethack, get out of the aol chatrooms, cancel your everquest account
           and read a newspaper once a month.
        \_ why is this showing up *now* on the motd? The link is dated at
2003/12/24-26 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:11583 Activity:nil
12/13   I am about to rent an apartment in Mountain View.  The contract
        allows rent hike with 2 months' notice.  Is rent going to increase
        in the next year?  I am wondering whether I should sign for m2m,
        6m, or 1yr.
        \_ gee, I sure miss the Bay Area...NOT!!!!!
        \_ Rent will increase. LLs (most of the time)
                will hike the rent. Some large, corporate LLs may keep the
                rent the same or give you a break but this is rare. This is
                even rarer in South Bay and rarer than rare for anything less
                than a 2-bd. Word of advice: shop around prior to renewal
                and negotiate. The rental market is soft right now and it's
                thought to remain soft well into 2004. I was able to keep my
                rent the same in East Bay even though pretty much everyone in
                my apartment complex had a 5% hike. (They just signed the
                renewal offer). Oh and it's easier to renew for a deal then
                to get out of a deal (penalties?) so I'd say sign for 6m-1yr.
        \_ Ignore all the idiots below.  The answer is you should sign for
           the length of time you expect to be there.  In this case you'll
           have that plus 2 months to figure out where you want to live after.
           The other option is to sign for the shortest period possible if
           you're willing to apartment hop every few months to save a few
           bucks on rent.  In that case get the shortest possible terms.
           \- well obviously if you know you are joining the army or getting
              married etc you may have a good idea of "the length of time
              you epxect to be there" but most people dont, down to the
              month. duh. if the person knew the nswer to this, he wouldnt
              be asking what to do in the face of uncertainty. --psb
              \_ genius boy scribbles to motd again.  look genius boy, he made
                 it pretty clear he's planning to be in the area for at least a
                 year, his only question is about if he should sign long to
                 lock in a low rent or sign short so he can move if it drops.
                 i answered for both the long and short term cases while you
                 completely failed to do either.  your best response was to
                 tell him to post his name so you could tell him your sob story
                 in email.  go smoke your pipe, genius boy.
        \_ please consult madame cleo for answers to all of life's pressing
           \- you are probably best off signing for a year. i know what i
              am talking about but i am not going to explain unless you
              sign your name. --psb
              \_ What does signing name have to do with this?  (S)he is not
                 trolling about chocolate or WMD?  The BIG one is coming?
                          \- because i want to try and stave off
                             E_CASTPEARLTOSWINE --psb
                 \_ It seems possible that there may be details that The
                    psb is not willing to share on motd that he might be
                    willing to go into via email or chat, etc.  Try to use
                    your brain a little bit.
                    \_ It was possible until he replied above making it clear
                       he's got nothing to say.
        \_ If the terms for the rent increase are the same for all three
           periods of time, sign m2m. Figure that rent will start increasing
           late next year, but not that much if at all. More COLA. Not as
           many jobs being created.
        \_ on the one hand, motd posters fret over a housing price crash.
           on the other hand, they worry about increasing rent?
           What gives?
           \_ It's fun to bash home owners on the motd and spread FUD but when
              reality strikes....
           \_ It's similar concerns. An increasingly ambiguous economy. A
              jobless recovery when real estate prices are increasing thus
              allowing landlords to maintain high rents. If the bubble bursts,
              homeowners lose lots of equity, but how the housing/rental market
              will react is unknown. High unemployment during a recovery means
              those with jobs will have fewer opportunities to increase
              salaries significantly by trading up jobs.
              \_ trading up jobs?  what happened to your employee loyalty?!
                 \_ It went right out with companies cutting pensions.
                    Legislated out of existence by 401k's
                    \_ So it's all about money, huh?  Sing the corporate song
                       and think of your cube mates!  Team spirit!
2003/12/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:11584 Activity:low
12/13   "Organizers charge white students $1 for a cookie, while blacks and
        other minorities pay 25 to 95 cents. Doughnuts are available for 50
        cents to everyone except Asian Americans and whites, who cannot
        purchase them... Unfair? So is affirmative action, organizers contend."
        \_ The most pathetic thing is that these stunts were first pulled
           by conservatives at UM during their recent affirmative action
           debate, and it appears on the news wires every time some imitators
           buy a couple of poster boards and $20 of cookies at the local
           supermarket.  (The people who were suing UM were horribly deluded
           to think that their race kept them out, btw.)  And also, wtf wants
           to go to UW?
           \_ Not everyone can get into your rich little white boy school.
        \_ How come Asian Americans cannot purchase them?       -asian am
           \_ There are no asians in Washington.
           \_ Because Asian Americans, like whites, need higher GPAs and test
              scores to get admitted compared to applicants of other races.
                \_ that is sooooo untrue. Look at Vietnamnese people. I've
                   roomed with 2 of them and 1 of them was a total complete
                   loser who liked to mod his car with ugly looking spoilers.
                   The other one was a thief who took my mail and stole
                   my CC # to buy things. Both of them went to VCs.
                   \_ VCs = vietcongs?
        \_ Trolling with public funds.  Obtaining cookies has an even playing
           field.  Education does not.
           \_ Wtf does 'even playing field' even mean?  What about poor white
              immigrants, etc?
              \_ At the most distilled, Opportunity.  Anything from parents
                 that actually know that they should help you learn (and
                 hopefully had an education themselves) to having a teacher
                 that recognizes your individual needs in education and has
                 the funds and time to address them. --scotsman
                 p.s. and before you get your panties in a bunch, no, race
                 lines are not a perfect way to draw the boundaries, but
                 strangely enough, the economic and racial lines show a
                 strong corellation.
                 \_ Then why not just choose economic lines and ignore race?
                    Do you seriously believe that middle class black parents
                    will raise their kids less well or know less than poor
                    white trash from the sticks?  Doing anything by race is
                    evil.  No bullshit.  No excuses.
                    \_ Do you seriously believe that racism is not still a
                       part of the problem?  And "anything by race is evil" is
                       a little strong.  Look at the reasons Prop 54 went down
                       so hard.  There are real divisions in terms of health
                       care and education that must be addressed in terms of
                       race/culture. --scotsman
                       \_ Nice dodge.  What about those middle class black kids
                          vs. the poor white kids?  Go read your own words
                          above starting with "Opportunity.  Anything from
                          parents...".  Stop ducking and please answer.
                          \_ It's not a dodge.  It's multiple parts of
                             the problem of education.  There is racism, and
                             there is insufficient funding and opportunity
                             for poorer schools/students etc.  There is no
                             panacea.  Racism has perhaps garnered more
                             attention, but calling it solved is ludicrous.
                             Scholastic funding for poor areas is a problem
                             that has headed in the wrong direction for a
                             long time. --scotsman
                             \_ Ben, what problem are you solving?  Are you
                                solving: (a) that some parents are idiots,
                                and don't instill the value of education in
                                their kids (such people exist in all races)
                                (b) that some people are poor and some are not
                                (such people exist in all races) or
                                (c) racist attitudes about some people (they
                                exist about people of all races, in particular
                                jews, members of the caucasian race, have been
                                the 'beneficiaries' of racism for thousands of
                                years).  So, which problem is it?  And why
                                penalize whites, regardless of which of the
                                three it is?  -- ilyas
                                \_ I am not a communist as you believe,
                                   ilya, but I do believe that education and
                                   health care are rights that everyone should
                                   be guaranteed.  I think that racism impinges
                                   on peoples' access to education.  I think
                                   that the best teachers spend nearly as much
                                   time educating parents as they do on their
                                   students (which shouldn't be necessary, but
                                   is).  I think the phrase "benefitting from
                                   racism" is loaded, and as unhelpful to
                                   discourse as comparing affirmative action
                                   to cookies is.  Returning to the financial
                                   aspect, I believe investment in education
                                   has a higher return that most people suppose,
                                   and deserves more funding than we have
                                   devoted thus far. --scotsman
                                   \_ Let me ask this again.  What justification
                                      do you have for penalizing whites?
                                      It doesn't have to be moral, it could
                                      be pragmatic.  I just want to know what
                                      the justification is, because I don't
                                      think it has been articulated yet.
                                        -- ilyas
                    \_ Refer to history.  Social movements brought us here.
                       Helping the poor is not what the rich do...  Helping
                       those who were socially outcast has much more political
                       leverage.  Besides the "Poor" don't vote...
                       \_ Helping the poor is exactly what the rich do.  It is
                          not what the middle class does because they can't
                          afford it.  That's why you get ultra rich leftists
                          like Gates and Buffet saying taxes are too low.  They
                          don't care what the tax rates are because it doesn't
                          mean anything to them but it makes them feel less
                          guilty to know they may have helped some poor people
                          (at the real world expense of the middle class). So,
                          anyway, you seem to be saying that we should help
                          the middle class black kid but ignore the poor white
                          kid... because he's white?  Brilliant.  Glad you're
                          \_ Then you're reading me wrong.
                          not making public policy.  It's already fucked up
                          enough.  At least today that poor white kid can get
                          *some* help for being poor, although not as much as
                          the middle class black kid.  In your world, the black
                          kid would get 100% and the white kid nothing solely
                          because of the color of their skin.  Sickening.
                          \_ I should make one correction.  Gates is NOT
                             a leftist.  Gates is a big Ayn Rand fan.
                             \_ He probably meant Gates Sr.
           \- "help help. i am an item." i really really hope the aclu
              gets involved in this one. --psb
2003/12/24-26 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:11585 Activity:nil
12/24   I'm paying about $25 for my unix shell account and web hosting at
        verio.  It includes 200 megs of disk space.  I'm looking for another
        provider that offers more disk space (500 megs) at around the same
        price.  I've looked at earthlink and the price is about the same
        as verio.  Any recommendations?  Unix has to be freebsd.  Thanks.
        \_ Call Verio and tell them to up your quota but you don't want to
           pay more and see what they say.
                \_ hey good idea (seriously).   -!op
                   \_ I'm a big Verio customer.  We beat them up on price all
                      the time.  It might not work for a little guy but it
                      doesn't hurt to ask.
2003/12/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:29735 Activity:high
12/23   So I'm a bit perplexed about the Nurenberg (sp?) trials and the
        trials in Japan. Many of the Japanese class A-C defendands were
        excuted for War Against Humanity, and that is cool. But what about
        dropping the atomic bomb? Shouldn't the Japanese have their own
        trials against say, MacArthur and others who dropped the a-bomb
        and killed many Japanese civilians? What about bombing of Dresden,
        Germany which has absolutely of no military value and was primairily
        meant to demoralize the German civilians? Isn't that also considered
        Crime Against Humanity?
        \_ Nuremberg, if you are going to comment on history at least read
           up on it. As for trials against MacArthur (who actually didn't
           authorize the use of the atomic bomb, it was
           actually Truman, so you got that wrong also) that's totally
           preposterous. How about you Japs formally apologizing for what
           you did at the Rape of Nanking, Pearl Harbor  and other
           atrocities inflicted upon the world. We didn't start the war
           with the Japs, you started it with us, so I think making
           Hiroshima and Nagasaki glow in the dark for a couple months
           is worth saving countless American lives as well as getting
           rid of the Jap scourge across Asia. In total, some 8-9 million
           people died directly due to Jap aggression, that's way more than the
           numbers in the holocaust. As for Germans, I'm sure
           the Russian and Jewish community will have the appropriate numbers
           on how many people were lost, since Russia lost the most lives
           due to Hitler. So, no, I don't think your neo-nazi sympathies
           are justified. Oh yeah, you're welcome for the U.S. rebuilding
           Japan into a viable nation after the war (instead of turning it
           into a wasteland).
        \_ A. No we won.  B. No, the atomic bomb does not even begin to
           compare with the sort of purposeful burtal cruelty the Japanese
           perpetrated on the Chinese, Koreans, etc.  C. No. the atomic
           bomb was much kinder than an invasion would have been. D.
           Quiet troll.  Read some history.
           \_ so you're saying that the WMD is more humane than hand to hand
              combat that the Japs were engaged in. Ok.
                \_ how about bombing of Dresden, the culture of Europe, the
                   place where it's revered for art and music? The place
                   that has very little military value?
                   \_ But I heard it was the hub for moving German troops.
                   \_ Dresden was the third largest transhipment point for
                      German war material.  As we all know fighting
                      a war is all about logistics.
                      STORICAL ANALYSIS OF THE 14-15 FEBRUARY 1945
                      BOMBINGS OF DRESDEN
           \_ Dresden may have had some minor military value in terms of
              transport but it had no military presence and was packed
              with refugees from the eastern areas. It was openly meant to
              "destroy the will for war" and all that, which of course is
              ridiculous in a dictatorship and anyway none of the people in
              that city were having any nice thoughts about war by that point.
              I don't know the figures but in 1945 troop transport was the
              least of Germany's problems.
              \_ It is not as ridiculous as you might think.  Germany may have
                 been a dictatorship, but Hitler and his band of merry men
                 were keenly aware of the public mood, and took great pains
                 to manipulate it for their ends (the propaganda office and
                 the obvious talent of Joseph Goebbels are a witness to this).
                 A dictatorship needs to worry about civilian morale more,
                 not less, than a democracy in time of war.  This isn't civ,
                 it's real life.  -- ilyas
            \_ I can only imagine this post (about the Japanese
                atocracties being hand-to-hand combat) must be either posted
                by either A. a troll or B. The stupidest and most ignorant
                japan otaku on the motd.  I guess you never heard about the
                rape on Nanking? Or the POW torture camps? Or the "comfort
                women?"  Or anything else?
                \_ Or the Unit 731 germ warfare unit.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:December:24 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>