Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:December:15 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2003/12/15 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:11455 Activity:low
12/14   Sorry about this, but about alternative to the Dragon Book in the
        subject of Compiler.  What is the name of the author for that
        Programming Language book again?
        \_ the Tiger Book by appel- a much better read.
        \_ Michael Scott.  Here's the Amazon link if you want to read
           some reviews: http://tinyurl.com/z9rx
           \_ thanks
           some reviews.
2003/12/15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:11456 Activity:kinda low
12/14   We wage war under the ground of WMD.  What happened if Iraq really
        didn't have WMD?  Under what ground we should try Saddam?  defending
        his homeland?
        \_ "we" aren't, the Iraqis are.
           http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/15/politics/15PRIS.html
        \_ I think we can ask the relatives of the 300K dead in mass graves
           \_ guess what, not all of the mass grave were produced in reigm
              of Saddam.  Some of these mass grave were dated back to the
              fall of Ottoman Empire.
              \_ oh well that makes it ok then. might as well forget about
                 the attempted invasions of iran and kuwait also, and let this
                 swell fellow go.
                 \_ Didn't we support the invasion of Iran?
                    \_ The coldwar was about the lesser of two evils.
                       \_ Bwahahahahahahahaha!  I damn near peed myself
                          laughing at this.  Nice.
                           \_ 100+ million killed
                              20TH CENTURY DEMOCIDE
                              http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
                              Long live MARX!!!
                              \_ If you study these figures, you realize that
                                 this guy comes up with some truly absurd
                                 numbers. He claims that the US killed 6000
                                 civilians during our entire 11 year war in
                                 Vietnam, including all civilians killed by
                                 bombings. This is just not believable. He
                                 plays all sorts of other tricks with numbers
                                 too, like claiming that all the Russians and
                                 Ukranians who died of starvation during WWII
                                 are the responsibility of Stalin.
                                  \_ Most of Stalin's purges occurred before
                                     WWII.  He gives a detailed explanation
                                     of the numbers in Vietnam.
                       \_ Is it really about the cold war?  If so, how
                          come Iraq's tanks were all Soviet?  I think
                          it's more about US supporting the despotic
                          Shah to control oil in Iran, only to see him
                          overthrown by mullahs, so US use Saddam and
                          his chemical weapons against Iran.
                            \_ Iran has been a monarchy for 2000 years; the
                               Shah was the royal successor.  His deposal,
                               thanks in a large part to Carter and Congr.
                               Dems was the inaguaration of militant Islam.
                               Neither NATO nor the Warsaw Pack wanted a
                               clear victor Iran-Iraq war; better to let the
                               Muslim fanatics kill themselves off.  In
                               restrospect the only mistake was that
                               they didn't kill enough of eachother.
                               \_ The fact remains. Iraq invaded Iran,
                                  (just like Iraq invaded Kuwait) not
                                  the other way around, and US
                                  supported Iraq, helping Saddam in
                                  multiple ways, including chemical
                                  weapons.
                                    \_ The justification of tacit Western
                                       support was militant Islam.  Based
                                       on what has transpired since it
                                       was completely justified.  The
                                       US did not give Iraq chemical
                                       weapons, although transfers of
                                       chemical and biological agents
                                       were made from US universities.
                                       Furthermore, the US did not
                                       provide military hardware to
                                       Iraq.  Even today Iraqs military
                                       orignates from France, Russia,
                                       China, etc... there is no US
                                       hardware whatsoever.  Iran
                                       also used chemical weapons, BTW.
                                       \_ Besides assistance with chemical
                                          weapons, US provided military
                                          intelligence, logistics, food
                                          credits (which Saddam easily turned
                                          into money to buy weapons), and
                                          encouraged allies to sell
                                          weapons to Iraq.  Iraq is the
                                          one who started using chemical
                                          weapons.  US itself also left
                                          all options open if attacked by
                                          WMD, so Iran's response is
                                          consistent with US policy.
                                          US also impose sanctions (all
                                          forms) against Iran during the
                                          Iran-Iraq war, which is started
                                          by Saddam, leading to 1 million
                                          dead.  US also sold Iraq 1
                                          billion $US worth of trucks,
                                          and changed the description on
                                          the export licenses from
                                          'vehicles designed for military
                                          use' to 'commercial utility
                                          cargo trucks'.  US also allowed
                                          Indonesia to sell attack
                                          helicopters to Iraq (made by
                                          US of course), cluster bombs
                                          from South Africa and howitzers
                                          from Austria.
                                           \_ And what is your point?
                                              This is common knowledge..
                                              I think we should have let
                                              them overrun the Iranian
                                              mullahs.
                                              \_ We tried, but failed,
                                                 and then it blew up in
                                                 our face.
                                                \_ Hindsight is 20/20, there
                                                   was insufficient political
                                                   capital to do much else.
                                                   In the end the Soviets
                                                   were defeated.
                                                  \_ Like I said, it has
                                                     very little to do with
                                                     the Soviets.  It's
                                                     about our control of
                                                     oil in the region.
                                                     That's why we are
                                                     still there long after
                                                     the demise of the SU.
                                                     \_ Oh my god you
                                                        think its about
                                                        oil NO WAY not
                                                        not in a million
                                                        years.  LOL it
                                                        doesn't take a
                                                        genius to realize
                                                        we would have
                                                        extricated ourselves
                                                        long ago if not for
                                                        the oil.  Guess what,
                                                        every country on the
                                                        face of the earth
                                                        wants to use oil,
                                                        including China,
                                                        Russia and France.
                          come Iraq's tanks were all Soviet?
        \_ Look, I am about as anti-war as they come, and even I can see that
           this is a pathetic attempt at a troll. I think we should just hand
           him over to the Kurds and them do what they will.
2003/12/15-16 [Recreation/Shopping] UID:11458 Activity:nil
12/14   reboot the Macy's building.
        http://www.cs.usm.maine.edu/~mccann/macys/macy2.jpg
        \_ General Merchandising Fault
2003/12/15-16 [Computer/HW, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:11459 Activity:low
12/15   U.K. Sodans can get a free PC that comes with Adware until the
        sponsoring company goes bankrupt.  In other news, 1999 called.  They
        want their business plan back.               http://tinyurl.com/zc3a
        \_ sounds like you're stealing your wit from fark.
2003/12/15 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:11460 Activity:high
12/15   So I figure they'll time it this way: Saddam now to throw the early
        Dem primaries into shambles, Osama Bin Forgotten around July just in
        time to prep and edit capture footage for the Republican National
        Convention, and then probably some WMDs in October to put the final
        nail in the coffin.  Anyone want to lay bets?  Get them in soon, I'm
        moving to Germany.
        \_ America - love it or leave it. Glad you'll pick the latter
          \_ Maybe I'll move to one of those industrialized countries with
             single-payer health care and a murder rate that's not horrid.-!op
           \_ Maybe we will.  And maybe we'll finally wake up and make you
              bloodsuckers leave instead.
           \_ I bet you're one of those morons who parrots the phrase
                "real americans" to refer to yourself and the rest of your
                cross-burning sister-marrying illiterate family.  You are the
                sheep.  And when the liberals leave no one will protect you
                from us, your corporate masters.  So go, liberals!  I want
                to sell fat and plastic to fuckwits like this guy without
                having to settle lawsuits every five minutes.
2003/12/15-16 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:11461 Activity:kinda low
12/15   hey ilyas: http://www.chivalrybookshelf.com/titles/ringeck/ringeck.htm
        (tobler interprets the Ringeck Verses)
        \_ right. just in case you just finished Quicksilver and felt it
           wasn't nerdy enough.
           \_ this book is not supposed to be fiction.  It's a system of
              movements for the art of applied geometry.
              \_ Agrippa is better for that.
                 \_ Agrippa wasn't thinking of a longsword, he was thinking
                    of rapier.
                    \_ What about Silver?
                       \_ Well, he had a bit of a bias vs. scherma.
                 \_ http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/fencing/agrippa/63.jpg ?
                    \_ Agrippa was a mathematician.  Basically he came up
                       with a system of movements that let the scholar
                       form the hypotenuse with his arm and blade to the
                       triangle created by the opponents arm, blade, angle
                       and point.  Alot of the spanish style, the so called
                       "magic circle" is all appications of geometry of chords
                       tangents, etc, since they didn't have the silly
                       limitations of strip fencing. - pst
           \_ For the record I don't like Stephenson.  I find most of his
              books (after Snowcrash) long and boring.  Also the above poster
              is right, this isn't fiction, it's a martial art manual.
                -- ilyas
              books (after Snowcrash) long and boring. -- ilyas
        \_ Neat!  Thanks, motd Santa! -- ilyas
           \_ ya might also wanna ask him for a gorget.  Preferably steel
              I took a schlager in the throat the other week and even thru
        \_ Neat!  Thanks, motd Santa! -- ilyas
              a steel one it still hurt and stunned. - pst
           \_ Motd santa pls bring me:
              http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/closed.htm
           \_ If you like that, tell us about this:
              http://img.kb.dk/ha/manus/th290/kamp0205.jpg
              and
              http://img.kb.dk/ha/manus/th290/kamp0165.jpg
2003/12/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11462 Activity:very high
12/15   With Saddam in custody now the '04 election is done.  Stick a fork in
        it and vote for Green so we can end the "1 party, 2 faces" nightmare.
                                                What is this? _/
        \_ In answer to "what is this?", "1 party, 2 faces" is what our
           political system has become.  Both parties are the same.  They
           have the same agenda, offer the same solutions, they 'steal'
           each other's platforms not because they believe in them but because
           the polls say it's a good idea to do so.  This is a one party
           nation that uses 2 names for the same party.  We need a second
           party in this country for those of us tired of business as usual.
        \_ Yeah voting for Ralph Nader surely helped Al Gore, Jr. win.
           \_ Why would I want the other side of the one party to win?  Gore
              and Bush might as well be twins.  Why is this so hard to
              understand?
        \_ Watch the polls dip as we lose another 500 soldiers between now
           and the election.
        \_ Nah, the economy could only add an anemic 150,000 jobs last quarter,
           in spite of the biggest productivity gains in twenty years. Expect
           things to cool off a bit next year, leading to more job losses
           and further wage stagnation. This economy is great for the stock
           market, but not so good for Joe Sixpack.
           \_ Hence the phrase, jobless recovery.
           \_ Unlike you I am Joe6 and work with a ton of other union guys
              and we're doing just fine, thanks.  Get out of your ivory tower.
        \_ Yeah, support for Bush is up a whole 3%!!!!
           http://csua.org/u/5a2
2003/12/15-16 [Reference/History, Reference/History/WW2] UID:11463 Activity:nil
12/15   I don't understand the Trojan war. After the Greeks fought for 10
        years to rescue the pretty Helen of Troy, wouldn't she have already
        turned into a 30 year old hag making the Trojan Horse victory in vain?
        \_ Homeric allegory is lost on some people.
        \_ C'mon, it's principle of the thing.  Think of it like M$ stealing
           your code and you finally wrangling a paltry settlement out of
           them a decade later....
        \_ They were fighting for Agamemnon's honor as the king of the Greeks.
           Also, the looting and taking of all the other women.
        \_ you're forgetting about the Trojans' WMD.
           \_ women of mass destruction?
                    \- heh. --psb
              \_ if yer trojan springs a leak
        \_ I don't understand what's the big deal about the Iliad.  It bored
           me to tears.
              \- do you think this says more about you or the iliad?
                 Xalepa ta kala.
                 For discussion on the original question:
                 ~psb/MOTD/Iliad.commentarii          --psb
                  \_ Did you write this while in a cafe?
                     \- yes. why? were you watching me? --psb
                 \_ Did you mean: Xalapa ta kala  --obGoogle
                    \_ There is no one way to transliterate Greek into English
                       characters. "Chalepa ta kala" seems the most common.
                 \_ I like simple books like Old Man and Sea or Of Mice and
                    Men.  Being very old, I can see why Iliad is important, but
                    it is very boring and repetitive, and the whole plot line
                    could be summed up in half a page.  Granted, it's like a
                    poem, but a few hundred pages of repetitions?  Ugh!
           \_ If you think the Iliad is boring you should try a more modern
              adaptation: Ulysses.  Heh.  Let us know what you think.
              \_ I heard that's a very boring book too.  I remember Economist
                 saying that some think the author is just a con-artist with
                 a very large vocabulary.
                 \_ I read the Economist for all my ancient poetry and book
                    reviews.  Good plan.  I also make all my best meals from
                    their recipe section.
                    \_ A cauliflower is a cauliflower no matter how you cook
                       it.
           \_ for u then: http://troymovie.warnerbros.com/index_noflash.html
                \_ well I think it's gonna be a lame movie. They're frigging
                   fighting for a 30 year old hag. They could've spent 10
                   years doing something more constructive.
                   \_ funny thing for a 30 year old virgin to be saying...
              \_ Cool.  I would like to see the movie since I like "historical"
                 movies.  But that doesn't change my opinion of Iliad, whose
                 plot is just a small subplot of the whole Troy endeavor.
2003/12/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:11464 Activity:nil
12/15   DNA Testing used to confirm Saddam's Identity:
        http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994481
2003/12/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:11465 Activity:insanely high 66%like:12871
12/15   liberal media:
        http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,561468,00.html
           \_ p.s. - the "liberal" thing was intended ironically. oh well. -op
              \_ excellent troll.  2 cookies for you.
        \_ Time is a piece of crap, but that article doesn't appear
           biased one way or the other.  -tom
           \_ "We can measure the meaning of his capture by the measures we
              have taken -- old alliances and long traditions discarded to
              go to war to take him out and, in the name of democracy, a war
              that was opposed by vast majorities in most democracies on earth."
              Now, is this really true?  Vast majorities opposed the war?
              Or is it vocal minorities?
              \_ Polls in many european countries rode anywhere from 70-90%
                 against US actions. How 'bout this one: "by far the vast
                 majority of my tax cuts go to the bottom end of the spectrum"
                 --scotsman
                 \_ You're deeply confused about what democracy is all about.
                    Just because other democratic countries may disagree with
                    our democratic country does not lead to the conclusion
                    that our actions were wrong.  It only follows that the
                    people in those countries have a different culture and
                    belief system from our country.  There is nothing that
                    says all democracies have to agree with each other.  It
                    a simply a form of government, not a rating of good vs.
                    evil or which team you belong to in the world.  If 100%
                    of people in other 100% of other democratic countries were
                    opposed to our country's actions that carries no more
           \_ not biased? c'mon. 3rd paragraph? Nothing but agrandizing
                    weight, value or meaning than if 100% of the people of
                    100% of totalitarian states disagree with our actions.
                 \_ Even if this is true (how many countries?)...  There are
                    other democracies besides those in europe.  Was the vast
                    majority opposed to the war in some sort of non-changing
                    sense?  Do the polls show consistent 70-90% opposition,
                    and still do?
                    \_ You can look for the answers yourself.  This is another
                       thing that gets me about the o'reilly effect.  They
                       bring up questions like this that are relatively
              news-magazine-murdered-cheerleader special reports. please.
                       answerable if you have the time, but people who don't
                       have the time simply base their outrage on them..
                       \_ Well, the thing is ... if you don't know the answers
                          to these questions you can't really say Time isn't
                          full of shit.  Which is the point.
                          \_ The answer is that the vast majority of countries
                             opposed the US war and still do. You are just too
                             lazy to do the research yourself.
                             \_ Look, in France, the very bastion of
                                anti-(american unilateralism/english speaking
                                hegemony), only 59% oppose the war.  Where
                                are the vast majorities in _most_ democracies
                                of the world?  Show me.
                                Time is full of shit.
                                \_ http://csua.org/u/59w
                                   http://csua.org/u/59y
                                   \_ Uh... the best this says is that
                                      majorities (far from vast) in _several_
                                      european countries (far from most
                                      democracies in the world) opposed the
                                      war at one point.  But poetic hyperbole
                                      is ok, because it's Time, right?
                                      \_ Give it up. You are just making
                                         yourself look bad. They polled 45
                                         countries and a majority opposed the
                                         war in 2/3 of them.
                                         \_ Sure.  Now let's compare what the
                                            facts say and what Time says.
                                            Facts: Simple majorities in 2/3rd
                                            of 45 nations in the world opposed
                                            the war in iraq at one point in
                                            time.
                                            Time: Vast majorities in most
                                            democracies of the world oppose
                                            the war in iraq.
                                            Time is full of shit.
                                \_ 59%? Show me.
                        _/
http://www.iraqcrisisbulletin.com/archives/041603/html/french_doubts_over_war_opposit.html
This is from april.
                          \_ Honestly, come on now. It's common knowledge that
                             the war was opposed by everyone except a couple of
                             eastern europeans desperate to suck up to the USA.
                             As if anyone in Poland gives a shit about Iraq.
           \_ not biased? c'mon. 3rd paragraph? Nothing but aggrandizing
              and romanticizing sensationalist language. the thing of
              news-magazine-murdered-cheerleader special reports. please.
              \_ What in that paragraph do you think was aggrandizing
                 \_ besides the whole thing? how about:
                    "It was an antidote to the contempt expressed by Arab
                     and European commentators who poked the American
                     tiger: See, you can't even catch Saddam."
                     \_ One man's "bias" is another's "perspective."  Go away,
                        dittohead.
           \_ I like Time.  I read all the major newspapers as well.
              Each source has its own problems.
           \_ I don't like any media, yet I read them all the time.  Each
              source has its own bits of useful information.
2003/12/15-16 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:11466 Activity:nil
12/15   My laptop doesn't have the "windows" key and I run WinXP. How can I
        lock the desktop quickly since I can't do WINKEY-L ?
        \_ Winkey = Ctrl-Esc
           \_ Not exactly.  You can't chord with ctrl-esc.
        \_ Ctl-Alt-Del, enter.
           \_ this is what I was gonna suggest. the real question is how
              can you quickly clear the desktop (Winkey-D) or invoke the
              run dialog (Winkey-R) ??
              \_ For Windows-D:  There should be a Show Desktop icon in the
                 Quick Launch bar.  Drag a shortcut to your Start Menu.
                 Bind shortcut to Ctrl-Alt-whatever.
                 For Windows-R:  If you can find an .exe or file that
                 opens the Run dialog, then repeat as above.  Otherwise,
                 you're stuck with Ctrl-Escape -> Press 'R'.
                 \_ OH MY GOD!! I NEVER KNEW THESE KEYS EXISTED!!!!
                    THANK YOU!!
                    \_ motd, psycho windows user. psycho windows user, motd.
                       glad to introduce you. (heartofore pwu)
                       aka, p-triple-u
                       \_ hey, man! i knew that, and i don't even
                          like windows!  I am a psycho, however.
                       \_ pu^3, not to be confused with (pu)^3
        \_ Use RemapKey to map something else (e.g. right-alt) to the Windows
           key. http://www.dynawell.com/support/Reskit/win2k.asp
           \_ You do know that this 2K tool won't work for XP, right?
              \_ Uh, why wouldn't it?  The author's web page says it works for
                 Windows NT 4, Windows 2000, and XP.
2003/12/15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:29717 Activity:nil
12/15   Are foreign policy isolationists conservative or liberal?
2003/12/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:29718 Activity:nil
12/15   Amit in the doghouse:
        http://www.pantsfactory.org/?action=comments&linkid=884
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:December:15 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>