11/21   if Nader runs in 04, how many of you would be willing to buy a
        t-shirt that says "fuck you ralph nader!" on it?
        \_ NADER '04!  GO RALPHIE GO!  SHOW THEM SELLOUTS!
             -- conservative
           \_ bitter dems can't stand a real party for the left.  you guys
              really are sellouts and we're going to keep running candidates
              until you're gone.  it'll be green vs. republicans with no
              room left for the democrats.  it wouldn't be the first time in
              this country a party was formed... or died.
                \_ go go national polarization!

11/21   ~ 100k hp engine: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl
        \_ will it fit in my car?

11/21   So WHEN will we get the official files that have been hidden away
        from public on the assassination of President Kennedy? Why can't they
        release that info after the assassination?
        \_ seriously, who cares anymore...it's been 40+ years.
        \_ The Truth Isn't Out There Fox. - Cancer Man
        \_ when all those people are dead.

11/21   zsh users: any way to _really_ put a process in the background?
        i.e.  let me exit my shell and keep my background processes running
        I get "zsh: you have running jobs." and am returned to the zsh prompt.
        \_ learn to stfm. from the zsh manual:
           "If a job is started with `&|' or `&!', then that job is immediately
           disowned.  After startup, it does not have a place in the job table,
           and is not subject to the job control features described here."
           you can also use the disown builtin.
           \_ What's stfm, a combination of rtfm and sftw?
              or does it mean "search the motd"?
              \_ yeah, i mean "search the fucking manual." zsh has a fairly
                 complete manual in info format, so using C-s to do incremental
                 search works nicely.
                 \_ thanks..
        \_ try "man screen"

11/21   Paul Wolfowitz flashback, 1991, in regards to the Kurdish and Shi'ite
        uprising:
        "No one can read about what's going on there without feeling a great
        sense of sympathy for what's going on. But that doesn't mean it is in
        our power to straighten it out. It's a mess that, to be a little harsh
        about it, is to some extent of their creation, and they are going to
        have to come up with a solution."
        \_ If they did anything effective "world opinion" would have declared
           their actions illegal and restore Hussein to power.
           \_ Your head must stink from being up your ass so much of the
              time.
              \_ wow, with a brilliantly written reply like that, what more
                 need be said?  you've certainly shown yourself to be the
                 most intelligent and educated person on this thread.  got
                 any other little bits of your 'special olympics' quality
                 wisdom you'd like to share with the class?
                 \_ hi, motd wowboy! who are you?

11/21   Latest time/cnn poll: bush would crush any of the democrats if the
        election were held today.
        \_ Which is nothing more than a function of name recognition.
           Bill Clinton was in almost identical position in 1992.
           \_ Ross Perot isn't running this time around.

11/21   Question for motd conservatives:  Why is it smart to disagree with
        scientific consensus on global warming, but dumb to disagree with
        economic consensus on the effects of globalization?
        \_ Personally, I take any consensus with a grain of salt.
           "Consensus == dogma" surprisingly often.
             -- conservative
        \_ 1) there isn't consensus.  it remains an open issue.  the ability
              of science to predict super complex systems like long term
              global weather patterns and temp. changes is zero.
              \_ Actually, there is a great deal of consensus.  The only
                 "dissent" comes from climate scientists on the payroll
                 of the petroleum industry, who are kept funded to create
                 the illusion of debate.
                 \_ references, please.  also, go look up consensus.  it is a
                    very black and white word.  you either have it or you
                    don't.  you don't.  there was consensus at one time that
                    the earth was flat.  when i was a pre-teen there was
                    consensus that we were heading into an ice age.  where the
                    hell is my ice age, huh?  all the same scientists said so.
                        \_ There was never a consensus the world was flat.  The
                           Greeks had estimates of the diameter of the world in
                           500 BC.  The notion of a "flat earth" an
                           anti-clerical myth initiated in the 1800s.
           2) i don't know what we motd conservatives think about the
              'economic consensus on the effects of gloablization'.  if you
              could tell me what i think, i could tell you why.
        \_ Sorry, there is no consensus.  You seem oblivious to how research
           grants are delegated.  Global warming is a gigantic
           self-perpetuating money industry.  Try getting money from the UN
           EU, Canada on a proposal that contradicts the warming hypothesis.
           http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html
           My favorite study as of late:
           Researchers question key global-warming study
           http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/trc.html
           As for trade, I'm with Pat Buchanan who has been predicting
           this for over a decade.  Fair trade I support... but what
           exists today is not reciprocal in any sense of the word.
           \_ the "oblivious to how research grands are delegated" argument
              has become one of my favorite tinfoil hat statements.  keep
              up the good work!  remember, the federal reserve is in league
              with The Jews to take away your guns!  I have applied for grants,
              my grandfather spent most of his career as an NIH grants
              administrator, and as a professional scientist I know a lot
              of poeple who have to apply for grants constantly and
              several who review grants.  you have no idea what the fuck
              you're talking about (I'm assuming you're the same dumbass
              who usually posts this argument.)
              \_ Who do you think wins grants? There are certain scientists
                 of a certain stature who receive 90% of the money in a given
                 field. They gained their stature perhaps by good science (and
                 sometimes not) but they are not always right. There is a lot
                 of politics involved.
              \_ so you're saying grants aren't political?  then why was the
                 sf chronicle printing an article last week about how several
                 dozen NIH grants are being cut or re-reviewed due to their
                 content?  anyway, any idiot can apply for anything.  you
                 didn't say how many were granted or what they were for and
                 if that contradicted the prevailing theories at the time and
                 what political connections your family or their associates
                 have with the grant givers or if the grant applications fit
                 the grant giver's other ambitions already.  in short, you've
                 told us nothing except you can file paperwork and everyone
                 else is ignorant because, well, you can file paperwork.
                 \_ Unfortunately this same problem exists for publications
                    as well.  In fact, Nature recently ran an editorial
                    decrying the incestuous review process.   These journals
                    should do blind reviews of submissions.
                    \_ that doesn't solve the problem.  if a field is small
                       and everyone knows eachother, there is no such thing
                       as a "blind review."  when your close friends
                       post anonymously to the motd, don't you recognize
                       their posts?  perhaps more useful would be removing
                       the anonymity of the reviewers to put more pressure
                       on them to do their job.
        \_ I do not think that word means what you think it means.  Hell, 30
           years ago there was a consensus about global cooling, so I'm a bit
           skeptical for just that reason.  Then there are the astrophysicists
           who point out a link between solar activity and global temperatures.
           But the clear proof that global warming is not a scientific
           conclusion was the *reaction* to the book The Skeptical
           Environmentalist.  It was criticized, derided, villified, etc. but
           no one refuted its serious scientific claims.
           \_ The global cooling theory only was out for a little while.  See
              it didn't add up and further research proved that.  So it was
              thrown away as a theory that was wrong.  Global warming on the
              other hand has had a hell of a lot more time spent on it
              and beyong a few partisan shrills of questionable veracity,
              it hasn't been refuted.  Yes bogus theories sometimes get
              their time in the limelight, but the idea that a theory that
              has had so much further study is still considered good and
              yet is a crock of bullshit is, well, laughable.  Tin foil
              territory about a vast conspiracy of scientists that Want You
              To Fear Greenhouse Gasses For Their Own Neferious Reasons aside.
              \_ Nefarious.
          \_ IIRC, the various global warming theorists attacked the man for
             having no scientific training in global warming theory/politics.
             in other words, he was derided for going against the status quo
             and nothing else.  he wasn't in the boy's club and wasn't playing
             by their circuluarly defined rules about what can and can not be
             good global warming science/politics.
        \_ Global warming is BULLSHIT. Enough said. -sameer (does anyone
           sign their motd entries anymore? What is this world coming to?)

11/21   California secretary of state anounces that all electronic voting
        machines must provide paper receipts by 2006 http://tinyurl.com/w26j
        \_ This is good news.  Including the fact that voters can't take them
           outside of the polling place (preventing vote buying).
           \_ So you get the receipt and then you have to throw it away right
              away?  What's the use then?
              \_ The election officials keep the slips.  You verify the
                 result, then put the slip in a lock box, and they keep
                 the slip in case they need to verify/recount.
                 \_ sounds like a complete waste of time and money.  -tom
                    \_ You're right. Democracy is the least efficient form
                       of government, but it's better than the alternatives.
                    \_ you prefer what?  nothing?  i found it really spooky
                       to hand my e-voting card to some old guy who plugged
                       it into some hand held toy which beeped after a few
                       seconds.  at least with the paper i know there's a real
                       thing out there someone can check if need be.
                    \_ If you don't think that *some* kind of physical audit
                       trail is necessary, then I suggest that you google
                       "Diebold 18181".
        \_ Slips?  Why not punch cards?

11/21   S.F. has nation's highest syphilis rate
        http://csua.org/u/52d
        Must be the foggy weather
        \_ Must be that you're an evil rich white male oppressor racist!
        \_ You really are obsessed with this.  You need help.
        \_ It is good to be #1 in something, at least.
           \_ SF is #1 in several things, none of them good.

11/21   Uh oh, here come the Dean Draft Dodger headlines...  Look out!
        Actually nevermind, being a draft dodger didn't hurt the GW2 or
        Clinton.  Sigh....  Nader'04 for the people and environment!
        Restored.  Why are you trying to censor the real left?
        \_ The real left?  Don't make me laugh, Mr. Motd COINTELPRO.
           \_ What's more left in this country than Nader?  Certainly not the
              sellout Democrats who voted for war on Iraq.
        \_ Hey, Because of Nader, Bush won the presidency.  Am I going to
           fuel his personal glory ? probably not.  We got more important
           thing to do, i.e. get Bush out of office
           \_ Hey, Because of Gore, Bush won the presidency.  Am I going to
              fuel his personal glory ? probably not. We got more important
              thing to do, i.e. get Bush out of office.  If Gore hadn't run
              then Nader surely would have won.  Gore running made Bush win.
              Keep voting for the pseudo-left.  I'm voting for the real thing.

11/21   Congress voting on Anti-spam:
        http://news.com.com/2100-1024_3-5110622.html?tag=nefd_top

11/21   Anyone know where I can get a 5V/2.5A power adaptor for my SMC
        barricade wireless router? I checked radio shack and they don't
        seem to have anything that fits my specs. thanks.
        \_ Rat Turd is a fucking joke.  Try one of these:
           http://www.newark.com
           http://www.digikey.com
           http://www.alliedelec.com
        \_ Electronics parts catalog.  See, EECS40 came in handy!

11/21   SAS users - I'm in SAS for Windows 8.2 I've maxed my virtual memory
        but it won't compute a logistic regression because it is out of
        memory. What the fuck? It's only about 180,000 observations in the
        data set. Email fab if you know an easy fix for this.

11/21   Here's the "Dean is a draft dodger" link.  From the NYT.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/22/politics/campaigns/22DRAF.html?ex=1070082000&en=a4240500ff458bcb&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
        \_ i'm confused as to how this is ammunition for critics in a race
           against W.
           \_ Right now, Dean is in a race against Clark and Kerry, not Bush.
           \_ In the current climate, it's important to look strong on defense.
              Bush has shown this in his current term, whereas the Dems have to
              find some other way to show it.  Dean as a governor doesn't have
              any national defense or foreign policy experience, so he could
              lean on a military record--if he had one.  Frankly, I don't care
              much about what any of the candidates did 30 years ago (that is,
              unless they killed a woman in their car or something).

11/22   What the hell happened to my Global Cooling and The Coming Ice Age?!
        They promised me perpetual snow, ice, and snowball fights when I was
        kid.  Where is it?  We had scientific consensus at the time!  ACK!

11/22 Lots of American women bitch about American men dating
        foreigners. You want to know why? Because YOU SUCK. You are a
        pain in the ass. Period. Foreign women are easy to deal
        with. Having dated Europeans and Latina's, they are infinitely
        easier to deal with than American women. They just accept you
        for being a man. I hear lots of women say foreign women are
        pushovers - its the furthest thing from the
        truth. Particularly the Italians and the Latina's - they will
        fight with you and are very vocal. They just don't have all
              \_ i don't think that's the right choice of word. and btw,
                 that guy is a moron. do you want to marry an uneducated,
                 boring housewife? go right ahead, save the decent ones
                 for the rest of us.
        this bullshit that you carry around with you.
        http://www.nomarriage.com/fd.html
        \_ hi, bitter, lonely geek mysogynist.
        \_ In his tally of the 99.9% of American women who are out of the
           running for marriage, he includes women who have been raped.

11/22   http://www.nomarriage.com/slave.html
        BDG is that you?
        \_ No. Though, this poor soul's experience is similar to mine.
           \_ And what's your experiance?
           \_ BDG, is that really you?  Glad you're back.  The motd can
              use your wisdom.
                \_ this is the most retarded rant i've ever read. if the
                   only form of relationship you can get into is the one
                   prescribed to you by society then i bet all other
                   aspects of your life are equally boring and
                   disappointing. -kane
                   \_ Yeah, kane, wait until homosexuals win the gay marriage
                      battle.  Then there will be homosexuals giving
                      testimonials on that site.
                   \_ *laugh*  I love it when the know-it-all motd types get
                      on here and make themselves out to be intellectually,
                      culturally and otherwise superior in all ways to the
                      general public, usually by attacking a commonly held
                      cultural trait but they *never* provide an alternative.
                      So, kane, tell us about your perfect non-prescribed-to-
                      you-by-society relationship.  This is going to be good!
                      \_ She just thinks that two women and a two-way dildo
                         makes a functional equivalent of a family.
                         \_ Oh leave the poor girl alone.  She just never
                            got a good dicking.
                         \_ it doesn't make a family, but i could use video of
                            that for my 13gb/day pron site!

11/22   Any thoughts on the medicare bill on the house?  There was lots of
        discussion on the energy bill, but little on this one.  Good/bad?
        \_ The democrats are opposed and republicans in favor: it must be bad.
        \_ It has this really curious feature where beneficiaries with very low
           bills and very high bills are given lots of coverage, but those
           with bills within the median are given much less coverage.
           Anyway, both sides can go stick it where the sun don't shine - this
           is just more expansion of the entitlement system for immediate
           political gain, when they should be taking much more important
           (and of course, politically painful) steps to reform the system.
           Neither the Congress nor the President have displayed anything
           approaching the courage and integrity necessary to make that happen.
             --motd liberal
           \_ What is a liberal doing bitching about an entitlement system?
              You're no liberal.  You sound more like a libertarian.
              \_ Yup, agree.  -- another motd libertarian
              \_ I consider myself a liberal because of my opinions on social
                 issues and the workings of the justice system.  I recognize the
                 need for serious reform of our entitlement system for the
                 elderly, however.  From what I have seen, those than consider
                 themselves libertarians would like to dismantle the entire
                 entitlement system, rather than change the way that it
                 functions.  Also, I think corporate welfare (i.e, the ethanol
                 subsidy which amounts to a direct transfer of taxpayer money
                 to ADMs executives) is equally in need of reform, but I haven't
                 heard the same from many libertarians.  Not every liberal is
                 a raving Marxist/ANSWER loony, just like not every
                 conservative is a jingoistic dittohead.  BTW, the Economist
                 has a very nice graph on what may happen to the budget
                 deficit in the next 10 years:
                 http://economist.com/images/20031108/CSF889.gif
                   --motd liberal
                 \_ Whoa there, bucko.  If you haven't heard that corporate
                    welfare is bad from libertarians, you haven't heard from
                    any libertarians.
                    \_ that's the biggest load of shit on todays motd.
                       Libertarians blather about this, but when you look
                       issue by issue, they clearly favor the rights of
                       corporations over individuals, which will always lead
                       to corporate welfare.  Libertarians are quite possibly
                       the biggest threat to american society today.  if
                       libertarians continue to destroy the government,
                       issue by issue, they clearly favor the rights
                       corporations without any legal or ethical restraint
                       will rule our lives.  [formatd, big time]
                        \_ Please point to ONE single instance of
                           libertarians, or even the libertarian party
                           supporting "the rights of corporations over
                           individuals".  Libertarianism is ALL about the
                           the rights of individuals.  You don't know what
                           the hell you are talking about.  Your irrational
                           fear of what you clearly know nothing about is
                           disturbing.  -phuqm
                           \_ read their fucking platform
                              http://www.lp.org
                              in particular, see
                              http://www.lp.org/issues/program/health.html
                              Yeah, I can't wait till we eliminate the
                              evil FDA so we're free to take whatever
                              drugs the pharmas feel like marketing.
                              \_ Health Care is what i assumed you would say.
                                 I didn't consider opposition to the FDA.
                                 I didn't realize that not being able to buy
                                 drugs that have been legal in Europe for ages
                                 was one of the "rights" of individuals that
                                 you would be concerned with.
                                 For the record, I personally believe a Food
                                 and Drug admin. could play a valuable role
                                 in society.  But THE FDA is a net loss  even
                                 In terms of "rights" I don't see how any
                                 you just have no standing whatsoever. Exactly
                                 in terms of absolute benefit to society.
                                 In terms of "rights" I don't see how you
                       will rule our lives.  [formatd, big time]
                              drugs the pharmas feel like marketing.
                                 can make any argument whatsoever.  Exactly
                                 WHICH "individual" right do you think is
                                 being threatened by this position? -phuqm
                       \_ Just because you SAY libertarians favor the rights
                          of corporations over individuals, doesn't make it
                          true.  Personally, I am not even sure all
                          libertarians are willing to grant corps legal person
                          status.  At any rate, the libertarians don't
                          trust government much in the same way your amusing,
                          ranty little self doesn't trust Big Business.
                          Big Business is motivated by money.  What is
                       of corporations over individuals, which will always
                       lead to corporate welfare.  Libertarians are
                       quite possibly the biggest threat to american society
                       today.  if libertarians continue to destroy the
                       government,
                       corporations without any legal or ethical restraint
                         \_ You're not the only one, you should
                            http://www.freerepublic.com  Lots of libertarians.
                       will rule our lives.
                          Big Government motivated by?  Think about that.
                          Big Government motivated by?  Think about that.
                        \_ this libertarian thinks it's insane that corps have
                           legal person status and the rights that go with it.
                           that was a *huuuuge* mistake we'll be paying for
                           forever or until changed.
                    \_ agreed. It was primarily libertarians railing about
                        this in the motd previously. (e.g. me). It is also
                        mostly libertarians fighting eminent domain
                        abuses, where government orgs steal private
                        entity's property to give it to other (invariably
                        richer) private entities.  -phuqm
                         \_ You're not the only one, you should
                            http://www.freerepublic.com  Lots of libertarians.
                 \_ nice graph.  looks like we're just repeating the same
                    numbers as the clinton glory years of economic health.
                    anyway, it's easy to knock something.  how would you
                    reform the system if you had the power?
        \_ Just politicians spending more of the taxpayers money to
           buy votes.
           \_ Isn't that what all entitlement programs are?

11/22   Linux RAM question, why the slight descrapancy between the available
        (non AGP) phsical RAM and the available (non kernel) RAM reported
        by the kernel messages? (these from three different computers)
        1024MB-0MB(pci)  = 1024MB : 1048576k - (dmesg: 1048560k) =  16k
         512MB-16MB(agp) =  496MB :  507904k - (dmesg:  507840k) =  64k
          96MB-0MB(pci)  =   96MB :   98304k - (dmesg:   98112k) = 192k
        \_ Guessing: bios caching?
           \_ Is that the bios copying itself into RAM?
              \_ Just a guess, but probably.  Check the bios settings for
                 video and other caching.  It's likely that if you disable
                 all of that you'll see the ram numbers match or at least
                 get closer.  192k is a lot on that last machine but could
                 still all be bios caching if it's all turned on.  Please
                 report back if this is the case.  I'm curious.
                 \_ The last machine is a ThinkPad 600. I'll check into
                    the bios when I get a chance. I'll post something.
                    Thanks. -op

11/21   Here's the "Dean is a draft dodger" link.  From the NYT:
        http://tinyurl.com/w3sa
        \_ i'm confused as to how this is ammunition for critics in a race
           against W.
           \_ Right now, Dean is in a race against Clark and Kerry, not Bush.
           \_ In the current climate, it's important to look strong on defense.
              Bush has shown this in his current term, whereas the Dems have to
              find some other way to show it.  Dean as a governor doesn't have
              any national defense or foreign policy experience, so he could
              lean on a military record--if he had one.  Frankly, I don't care
              much about what any of the candidates did 30 years ago (that is,
              unless they killed a woman in their car or something).
              \_ So you're not voting for Ted Kennedy, huh?
              \_ Personally, I don't see dodging the draft as all that big a
                 deal, heck, my dad did it.  It only bugs me when guys who
                 have never served send troops into some fool place we have
                 no reason to be in, like Somalia, but that bugs me regaudless.
              \_ Right, because W is such an exemplary example.
                 no reason to be in, like Somalia.

11/22   Kennedy's dad was pro-Nazi.