Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:November:11 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2003/11/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:11014 Activity:high
11/10   Retired CIA analyst take on the WMD controversy:
        http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1109-02.htm
        \_ Yoo-hoo, Neo Cons?  Care to comment?
           \_ I am a socialist myself.  Having said that, I don't see
              anyone, conservatives, liberals alike, should tolerate leaders
              lies in order to drag us into war.
        \_ one of the interesting trait of George Bush is that while he has
           gutts to make bold moves, he doesn't seems to have the shoulder to
           bear the responsibility when things are not going his way.
           Deny the fact that he linked Iraq with al Qeda is one example,
           scapgoating George Tenent and the entire CIA community is another.
           While I disagree with 99% of his political agenda, it is this
           particular trait which I've completely lost any respect for
           him, as a person.
        \_ This guy was an intelligence officer during the Nixon
           administration - he has no knowledge of current WMD intelligence
           beyond you and me.  Let's recall what Democrats in the House
           and Senate had to say, from the Congressional Record:
           http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/949198/posts
           http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/947873/posts
           For some reason I trust the Senate Foreign Relations
           committee more than this guy.
           Did you read the Kay report - even the abstract?
           \_ Actually he served as a CIA analyst from 1964 to 1990.
              Here he exposes more lies from the Bush administration:
                http://www.counterpunch.org/mcgovern06232003.html
                http://www.counterpunch.org/mcgovern06272003.html
              \_ Useless.  That was before the FIRST war.  We're now 6 months
                 after the SECOND war _and_ 12 YEARS of sanctions.  You might
                 as well quote me in a book.  My opinion is just as valid as
                 this guy's.
                 \_ I am just pointing out the weak attempt (by you,
                    presumably) to discredit McGovern by saying that he
                    is from the "Nixon administration" when he worked
                    way beyond that time period right into the senior
                    Bush's administration.  Besides, his revelations were
                    not based on some supposed classified piece of
                    information, but information released to the public
                    combined with his understanding on how the intelligence
                    community works and how they interact with the
                    politicians.  In that regard, given his intelligence
                    background and experience, yes, his opinion is more
                    valuable than yours.
                    \_ That was my first comment in this thread.  His info
                 \_ So it is your contention McGovern has more classified
                       and understanding is ancient.  I'm here to discuss my
                       opinions and he's not.  There's no way to question him.
                       The article is like a hit n run driver.  You don't know
                       that he's done anything more than sit on a beach for
                       13 years while I've read everything available.  My
                       opinion carries more weight than his until he shows up
                       and demonstrates post-1990 knowledge.
                       \_ Interesting.  Maybe that's why Donald Rumsfeld
                          is so horrible as the Secretary of Defense.
                          Must be because his experience under the Nixon
                          administration, etc. was totally useless, and
                          because he went into business for quite a few
                          years before coming back, his "ancient"
                          experience had become totally outdated.  Maybe,
                          instead of calling him a senior statesman, we
                          should call him a rookie statesman.
                 \_ So it is your contention McGovern has more classified
                    sources than Senators Joe Biden, Carl Levin, and former
                    Majority leader Tom Daschle?
                    sources than Senators Joe Biden and Carl Levin?
           \_ I read the NYT and CNN summary which said GWB is eeevvvviill so
              I don't need to read anything more!  Those pure and neutral
              bodies of journalistic integrity and highest principles tell me
              all I need to think about any topic!  The 300,000 dead Iraqis
              that Hussein put in their graves wasn't above the fold of the
              NYT so it isn't important!  Nyah!
              \_ So now we're taking out every regime that kills more than
                 \_ Don't forget Indonesia ... oh wait, we have a big
                    gold mine and oil projects there .... sorry, next
                    country.
                 \_ If we could I think we should.  You think we should pull
                    back and hide behind our borders in Fortress America?  If
                    the rest of the world is lucky we one day will be able to.
                    \_ Afghanistan, good war.  Iraq, bad war.  No one
                       here except you is talking about a Fortress America.
                       Your strawman argument doesn't work.
                       \_ Afghanistan pretty much sucks as a war too if you're
                          going to include aftermath. Only Kabul is under
                          control, and that is only by the will of the warlords
                          who are willing to give the UN their "victory."
                          \_ yea, but at least the goal is clear right
                             from the start - disrupting bin laden and al
                             queda.  taking out taliban is a side benefit.
                             taliban is as hopeless as it get already,
                             comparable to the khmer rouge.  anything is
                             better that the taliban.  as bad as saddam
                             was, an aftermath worse than what it was
                             before is quite possible for iraq.
                 300K?  The Africans will be so happy!
2003/11/11-12 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:11015 Activity:nil
11/10   Anyone have personal experience with the Creative Nomad Zen NX?
        The features says that it can be used as a hard drive.  What
        kind of interface do you get?  Does it show up as a drive in
        Windows explorer?  What kind of filesystems can you put on it?
        Is the USB 2.0 interface fast enough to run apps off it?
        \_ You can run apps off tape with the right driver.  That doesn't mean
           you'd want to.
        \_ I've used the Zen (not NX, but they are pretty similar). It
           doesn't show up as a drive in explorer, you have to use special
           software to access it (either Creative's software or 3rd party
           software called 'Notmad'). I don't think you can run applications
           through Creative's software, it may be possible with Notmad but
           I haven't tried it.
2003/11/11-12 [Uncategorized] UID:11016 Activity:nil
11/10   Experimental Gameplay 2004 CFP.
        http://experimental-gameplay.org
2003/11/11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:11017 Activity:nil
11/10   That was some mighty fine trolling you lads did today.  I'm damned
        proud of each and every one of you!  You know you've got em by the
        nuts when they give up and burn the whole motd!  Persevere young
        trolls! Dance with the wolves! Talk like a pirate! ARR! --old troll
2003/11/11 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign] UID:11018 Activity:nil
11/10   Dances with Wolves on now at the History Channel. Find out why
        the US Government/Foreign policy is so great.
        \_ Trying to be sarcastic? Here's the synopsis from Roger Ebert
            "The dominant American culture was nearsighted, incurious and
            racist, and saw the Indians as a race of ignorant, thieving
            savages, fit to be shot on sight. Such attitudes survived until
            so recently in our society - just look at the B Westerns of the
            1940s - that we can only imagine how much worse they were 100
            years ago. -Roger Ebert"
            http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/1990/11/576465.html
        \_ Hey Kid, it's a movie.  Did you think Water World was based on
           fact, too?  The Postman?  There were lots of fucked up things the
           US government did to the indians and still does but DwW has nothing
           to do with it and isn't a history lesson.  Back to the troll pits
           with you, boy-o!
           \_ water world ruled.  i don't care about this stupid dances with
              wolves troll, but if you talk shit about water world you and
              me are going to tangle.
2003/11/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Recreation/Humor] UID:11019 Activity:nil
11/10   Love Actually is a pretty funny love comedy and at times it pokes
        fun of US Policy and its President who bullies the Prime Minister.
        Is this a sentiment currently shared by most of the Brits?
        \_ I think most of the Europeans, including the Brits, excluding
           Blair, hold an utmost disdain for GWB.
           Blair, hold an upmost disdain for GWB.
        \_ There are many cartoons of Blair as a poodle that Bush pulls
           around on a chain.
           \_ There is one cartoon which was copied and cloned.  A cartoon is
              not a reflection of the populace's general opinion.  It's a
              cartoon.
              \_ You could say the same thing about a popular mp3 on kazaa.
                 This one sounds more like a theme that resonates with people
                 and editors.  Your boy Blair is Little Lord Georgy's poodle.
                 \_ He isn't my boy.  I'm not British and I don't care at all
                    how Blair is portrayed in their own media.  And yes I would
                    say the exact same thing about a 'popular' mp3 on kazaa.
                    The music fad of the week among a tiny sub cult of music
                    listeners is not representative of the general population's
                    tastes or opinions on anything.
2003/11/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:11020 Activity:nil
11/10   While ousting Sadam Hussein is a good thing, wouldn't killing Iraqis
        and making a lot of fatherless children create a anti-AMerica
        sentiments which will create even more Jihad/suicidal bombers?
        \_ No.
        \_ Why would you believe this?  Is there any example in history of this
           happening?  Nice troll.
2003/11/11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:11021 Activity:nil
11/11   http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&e=18&u=/afp/lifestyle_germany
        This is what the old CSUA motd geezers need to spend money on.
        \_ Not really.  Old CSUA motd geezers know you can get hot local chicks
           and better beer for less money than that.  Over 30 chicks in the
           bay area are free.  Under 30 chicks cost you a drink and 5 minutes
           of telling them how great they look.
           \_ Riiight. Yeah sure.
              \_ Ok, it isn't true that old csua motd geezer know this but
                 that doesn't make it not true.  Old csua motd geezer don't
                 know a lot.
        \_ Ve got ze young zink girlies in ze red porsche rrroadschter for
           less euros zan zis, you little punk schwein.  Anyvay, who vants
           ze fet old cherman vimen if you get ze hot younk Italian zings
           to makink bouncy-bouncy on ze wasserbed, ja?  -John
2003/11/11 [Uncategorized] UID:11022 Activity:nil
11/11   More details on Lynch's capture and rescue (from AP)
        http://salon.com/books/wire/2003/11/11/lynch/index.html
        \_ Wag The Dog continues ...
        \_ http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=499&ncid=716&e=5&u=/ap/20031111/ap_on_en_ot/lynch_book
           Her M16 jammed due to sand. That's it, M16s suck even after they
           had over 10 years to improve it.
           \_ this is the same story as op
2003/11/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11023 Activity:nil
11/11   Bush, Special Interests, and Policy
        http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16790
2003/11/11-12 [Academia/Berkeley] UID:11024 Activity:nil
11/11   http://webcast.berkeley.edu/events/details.html?event_id=98
        Real Video webcast of a debate.  Topic: Has the War in Iraq Made Us
        Safer?
        \_ Is there a transcript?
        \_ Debate?  It's hosted by the UCB Graduate School of Journalism.
           There's no debate going on there.  The GSoJ is so left wing they
           think the Democrats are fascists.  It's both funny and sad who
           they chose for this 'debate'.
                \_ are you still mad they turned down David Horowitz
                   for the job of Dean?  - danh
                   \_ I could give a shit about Horowitz.
           \_ Hitchens is very pro-war, you dunce.
              \_ What's his stance have to do with anything I said?
2003/11/11 [Uncategorized] UID:11025 Activity:high
11/11   01:01:01 has passed.  -bored at work
        \_ aren't we all
          \_ OK, let's vote.
                          Bored at work: ..
                     Very bored at work: .
               Not at all bored at work:
                                  Other:
             Of course, this will be skewed, because if you are not bored at
             work, why waste your time voting here.
        \_ damn, I missed it. But I'll always remember the magic of March 3,
           2003, 03:03:03 AM. 3 is the magic number. Btw, John Salomon is a
           post overwriter!
2003/11/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11026 Activity:kinda low
11/11   Dean is electable:
        http://csua.org/u/4yi
        \_ ...and note that Bob Graham is now out of the race, leaving
           Florida up for grabs.
        \_ Shut your piehole. It is better to let the Republicans gloat
           about how they are going to beat Dean in a landslide. -AML
           \_ Bush bashing Dean as a liberal peacenik is a valid concern...
              esp.  with his untold millions in funds. [formatd]
              \_ Perhaps I was unclear. If the Republican get worried,
                 they will be able to raise more money from their base. -AMC
           \_ Gloat?  Our gloating has zero effect on the election.  We gloat
              because it amuses us to see you flail around desperately
              worshipping a lost cause.  4 more years, baby!
              \_ Its going to give me great pleasure to taunt you a second
                 time when Bush loses.
                 \_ Like the way you taunted me after Davis got recalled and
                    after the way you taunted me after Arnold won and the way
                    you taunted me when the two (R) candidates in a very left
                    wing state got over 2/3rds the votes, and the way you
                    taunted me when Bush got elected the first time and the way
                    you taunted me when Clinton got impeached and the way you
                    taunted me when the (R) took control of all branches of the
                    government and the way you taunted oh nevermind.  You just
                    keep at that bong and keep taunting me.
        \_ anyone care to comment on this?
           "Ironically, if he does get the nomination, Howard Dean's
            biggest problem will be Bill and Hillary's attempts to
            subvert his candidacy.  They simply cannot afford to have
            another Democrat in the White House, in short, if Howard Dean
            is elected President, Hillary never will be.  So, the Clinton's
            will do whatever they must to make sure that doesn't happen."
            \_ The tinfoil hat brigade always comes out in force whenever
               the name "Clinton" is invoked, like Pavlov's dogs salivating
               at the sound of a bell.
               \_ Uh, hey genius, why do you think Clark is in there?
                  \_ Erm.  Maybe because he wants to be president?  Oh right,
                     Clinton is the All-Powerful Daemon who rules from the
                     center of the Earth in his Plot to convert America to
                     Homosexuality, I forgot.  He made Clark do it with his
                     special Clinton Powers.
                     \_ Thank you. That was the best post I've read in
                        weeks.
                     \_ Hey genius, it's public knowledge he's the Clinton
                        Candidate.  It's not some dark evil secret.  If you
                        were more well read and less partisan you'd know that.
               \_ I'm suprised the tinfoil hat crowd hasn't made a bigger
                  deal of the fact that Kerry was a Skull. If he wins the
                  nomination it'll be Skull vs. Skull.
                  \_ Because Kerry is a Dem so it's ok.
                  \_ As an aside to the Skull talk, my aunt was in the same
                     private high school class as George W. Bush.  She said
                     he was the guy who was always puking in the corner at
                     parties.
                     \_ Wow!  That's totally news the rest of us didn't know
                        about 4 years ago when he first ran for office!  You
                        rock!  Thanks for the timely report!  /sarcasm
           \_ Bush bashing Dean as a liberal peacenik is a valid concern... esp.
              with his untold millions in funds.
2003/11/11-12 [Recreation/Dating] UID:11027 Activity:nil
11/11   It's been almost 6 weeks since my gf had her period. She used EPT
        but it turned out negative. What is going on?
        \_ period times will vary.  If she is very skinny <20% body fat,
           she may have very irregular periods.  -married guy
        \_ so how accurate are the tests? 99.96? 99.9999? Maybe you fall
           into that .00001 category?
           \_ Far less than that. esp if it's in the first week or two.
        \_ How regular is she? My ex would range from 3.5 weeks to 5+.
        \_ stress can play a part as well.  my gf didn't get hers for over
           two months at one point.
        \_ your gf is cheating on you.
        \_ Test again, or schedule an ob/gyn appt.
        \_ You lie.  No one on the motd has a girlfriend except for me.
           \_ For the last time, I am not your girlfriend.
              \_ Don't deny it baby.  You know you love it.
           \_ Sky does.
        \_ Time to visit a Planned Parenthood clinic for a blood EPT.
        \_ DADDY!
        \_ Time to start shopping for a ring.
           \_ What's he need a ring for?  This is Berkeley.  She should be a
              modern and independent minded liberal woman who has no need of
              your patriachical oppression or to wear a ring like a piece of
              property, a modern slave.  That's insulting.  If anything, she
              should be taking care of him since I'm sure he's really upset
              that his sex life is now over now that he's going to be a dad.
        \_ i don't understand why you want your grandfather to have a period.
2003/11/11-12 [Reference/Military] UID:11028 Activity:nil
11/11   Hey, gun nuts!  Is the M16 really that much of a piece of junk?
        Why are we still using it?  does it have *any* advantages over the
        AK-47?  What about those assault rifles the Swiss militia uses?
        \_ The M16 is one of the best assault weapons in the world.  Its
           reputation for jamming is largely a misconception carried over
           from Vietnam. One of the reasons there were such hideous issues
           in Vietnam was due to the fact that the weapon was manufactured
           for a specific type of propellant.  A different (cheaper, I would
           guess) was then issued in the field which caused massive cleaning
           problems, and alot of its reputation for jamming.  Usually you can
           look to the special operations community to get a feel for how
           effective a weapon system is.  AFAICR, British SAS, American Special
           Forces, and the Israelies all use this weapon system.  *shrug*
           There are many other weapon systems which are superior (definitely
           NOT the AK47), and the decision to stay with a newer revision of
           the '16 is definitely political.
        \_ search the motd archive, this was gone over not too long ago...
        \_ Like any weapon procurement, this is mostly political. The M-16
           works beautifully, as long as you don't use it for anything
           silly like war. Got some dirt in it? Just hope the enemy isn't
           attacking you while you are cleaning out the dust, dirt, or
           anything commonly found on the battlefield. At basic training,
           one instructor said that if you are battling an enemy using an
           AK-47, shoot and kill the enemy, then take his weapon. Though
           \_ Uhh, that may have been true in Vietnam, but in the modern
              battlefield, I think that's the stupidest thing I've ever
              heard.  No offense to you, amigo.
           it does not have the range or accuracy of the M-16, in real
           battles, it is priceless because it will work in real battlefield
           conditions (with dirt, mud, etc. plus, it's easy to disassemble
           and clean, quickly).
           \_ So if there's a sandstorm in Iraq now, our ground troops will
              suffer big losses?
              \_ It requires someone shooting at you who can aim to suffer
                 losses.  big losses requires lots and lots of guys shooting
                 at lots and lots of guys (in a sandstorm) and hitting them.
                 so, no, we don't take big losses at every sandstorm.
                 \_ Well, that also assumes they jam, which after 30+ years
                    of service and four revisions, seems pretty fucking
                    unlikely.
        \_ link:AR15.com
           \_ This site bears a striking resemblance to a lot of white power
              web sites.
        \_ I think you should be comparing it with the old M-14 rather
           than comparing it with AK-47s
        \_ M16 gets dirty and jams quickly.  Rounds are lighter and tumble,
           rather than 7.92mm which go straight through.  M16 is also lighter
           overall, but more complex to manufacture.  Draw your own
           confusions.  -John
           \_ 7.62mm?
              \_ they use their own scale in switzerland.
2003/11/11 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:11029 Activity:nil
11/11   11:11:11 has passed.
        \_ it isn't the year 1111
           \_ Alright, what's the deal with 11:11:11?  Is this one of those
              mystical stoner things like 4:20 that no one understands the
              origin of but everyone quotes?
              \_ the 4:20 thing comes from a police code for marijuana.
                 -nonstoner
                 \_ That's a widely circulated but well-debunked myth.  There
                    was a group of stoners from Cupertino or somewhere in the
                    south bay who called themselves the Waldos and got high
                    after school at 4:20 in the early 80's.  I can't provide
                    URLs demonstrating that it's not the police code anywhere
                    but a little googling should provide it. -sometimesstoner
              \_ a minute to remember those who have made sacrafices in the
                 fields of battle in service of our country.  Hate the
                 Commander in Chief, but do not hate the foot soldier.
                 \_ Veteran's Day, originally Armistice Day, was held on
                    November 11th to celebrate the close of WWI.  Supposedly
                    the terms of the armistice were signed around 11am
2003/11/11-12 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:11030 Activity:low
11/11   ls -lt lists all files in a directory in chronological order.
        For files nearly a year old, it only lists the date, but not the
        time, of last modification.  But it lists them in non-alphabetical
        order.  Thus, I suspect it is indeed listing them in order of most
        recently modified.  So, then, it presumably knows the modification
        time.  How can I get it to list the modification time, rather than
        the year, for older files?
        \_ get the ls that comes with GNU coreutils. it shows both date and
           time, but only up to hour and minute.
        \_ Try -T, works on FreeBSD
           \_ Whoa, that's really useful, never knew about that; thanks! Too
              bad it's not standard. -!op
          \_ works here, but not on my machine at work.
             \_ which runs....?
                \_ Solaris
                   \_ Solaris follows the POSIX standard
                   \_ Maybe try /usr/xpg/bin/ls ?
        \_ Try tarring up the file and scping it to soda
        \_ As with all problems, this can be solved with perl:  alias ls-lt to:
           perl -e 'chdir$ARGV[0]if@ARGV;opendir D,".";print scalar localtime $_\
->[0]," $_->[1]\n"for sort{$a->[0]<=>$b->[0]}map{[(stat)[9],$_]}grep\!/^\../,readdir D'
           (note the \'ed ! to make your shell happy).  Then you can just say
           % ls-lt /tmp
           % ls-lt
           etc.
           and get the full dates.  --dbushong
           \_ or you might even be able to do tar tf on the tarfile
2003/11/11-12 [Science, Politics] UID:11031 Activity:nil
11/11   Power question for you guys...  Could bad sectors on a hard drive be
        caused by an insufficient power supply?  I have a good-quality 300W
        buy have an athlon 1700, 3 7,200 RPM hdds, 2 optical drives, and a
        GeForce FX 5600.  Am I pushing for a brownout?
        \_ I don't think that would cause bad sectors but anything's possible.
           Check the power consumption specs for your devices and add up the W.
           Just a guestimate: (20*5)+75+50+20=245 you're getting close to 300W.
                            (disk*5)+CPU+Video+mobo/etc=total
        \_ Yes.  Insufficient or poorly regulated power can cause HDD problems.
2003/11/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:11040 Activity:nil
11/11   Cool.  Foreign born billionaire fucking around in American politics.
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A24179-2003Nov10?language=printer
        \_ So its okay when Richard Mellon Scaife does it, but its bad when
           George Soros does it?  And I hear that Ahnold guy is a furriner,
           too.
           \_ Scaife is an American.  His concerns are American.  He is not
              running around spending money to make America better for the
              world but the world better for America.  As an American that's
              ok by me.  I'm not a citizen of the world, or Berlin or any
              other place outside this country.
              \_ And Soros has lived in America since 1956, likely well before
                 you were born.  Calling into question the patriotism of a
                 citizen of this country simply because he supports a different
                 view from yours is childish at best, unpatriotic at worst.
                 --scotsman
        \_ And this is worse than huge corporate donations how?
           \_ Did you read the article?  No.  You're so blinded and ignorant
              you don't even know about the death of big contributions a few
              years ago from big corporations and the equally evil unions?
           \_ because corporate donations go to The President, and Soros
              donates only to organizations not affiliate with any one
              candidate.
              \_ Huh?  Nurse, increase the patient's medication, he's not
                 making sense.
                 \_ go download the latest patch for your sarcasm detector.
        \_ Wait I thought the Democrats were the party of poor, homosexual,
           minorities.  HOw could this be?
           \_ Homosexuals hate minorities.
              \_ Actually, minorities hate homosexuals.
                 \_ It's important that we all understand which of the
                    different 'communities' on the left hate each other so we
                    can make sure to sit them at different tables when we
                    divvy up the public treasury for ourselves.
2003/11/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29630 Activity:nil
11/10   I guess there is a hope in US government system. Supreme Court is
        hearing Guantanamo Prisoner's case!
        \_ Yeah, they heard the Florida '00 Case, too.  Vote Green for Clean
           Government!
           \_ W00t!
        \_ That's cool, except can anyone please explain why the 400,000 Nazi
           POWs in America (mostly captured from the Afrika Korp) were treated
           with food, shelter, and entertainmant while the Japanese Americans
           were subjected to Internment, which is... crap?
                \_ http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/german-pows-in-america.html
                   German generals were given fine wine, steak, and music
                   as POWs. What is wrong with this picture?
                \_ so I don't want to sound racist or anything, but all the
                   Japanese people I personally know of are so myopic, I
                   wonder how they even flew the Mitsubishi Zeros, let alone
                   bomb Pearl Harbor. Can anyone explain?
                   \_ They had glasses if they needed them.  Probably used
                      people with good eyesight for pilots.  And the question
                      *is* kinda racist.
           \_ Geneva Convention states that POWs should be treated in much the
              same way as your own soldiers.  The U.S. also hoped that by
              treating German POWs well, Germany would treat U.S. POWs better.
              Japanese internees were not covered by the Geneva Convention and
              hence were SOL.
2003/11/11 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:29631 Activity:nil
11/10   I just installed OS X on an old Mac for someone. The mouse used to work
        but doesn't anymore. It does work if I use a boot CD to go into OS 9.
        I'm not a Mac person and so I don't really know what to do or even
        how to navigate without a mouse. Is this a common problem? Any advice?
        \_ Ok, w/ control-F2 I got into System Prefs, Universal Access, but
           I can't figure out how to tab over to "Mouse".
           \_ Details? Which version of OS X?  What model of mac?  What kind
              of mouse (usb?)?  I had no problems installing Jaguar and
              Panther on an old iMac (G3, 700Mhz). -meyers
              \_ Details?  Hey, wtf?  I thought "Macs just work!"?  This
                 sounds no better than windows or linux.
                 \_ It's worse than Linux, because Linux users are used to
                    having problems, so there is lots of information in
                    newsgroups. Here, you just have to hope that everything
                    just magically works the first time 'round.
        \_ I think it's a G3 (green tower). Round USB mouse plugged into
           keyboard (didn't work in the back either)... mouse worked during
           OS X install and also in OS 9. Also, using keyboard, I got a
           resource error when trying to load Classic.
2003/11/11 [Uncategorized] UID:29632 Activity:nil
11/11   What's the best way to pee in a urinal?
2017/11/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/19   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:November:11 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>