Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:November:08 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
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2003/11/8-9 [Computer/Companies/Yahoo] UID:10987 Activity:nil 66%like:10573
11/7    Anyone else having problems getting to Yahoo mail?
        \_ no.
2003/11/8 [Computer/SW/Languages, Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:10988 Activity:nil
11/7    My emacs says hilit-translate has a null definition, what does that
        mean?
2003/11/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:10989 Activity:moderate
11/7    Liberal views force soldier out of military
        http://csua.org/u/4xk
        \_ There is no free speech in the military.  Good thing they got
           rid of this guy.
           \_ I'm ashamed to call you an American.
                \_ ITs the military, chain of command and all that stuff.
                   DUH.
                   \_ Just following orders?
                      \_ Non sequiter?
        \_ Here's a good line which motd leftists should take to heart,
           "The unfortunate aspect of this is not my demise, but their
           inability to understand or accept the opinions of others as
           different from their own."  And here we see a leftist of all people
           correctly describing the difference between the right and left in
           our little motd world.  As a conservative I understand and accept
           the opinions of the leftists here.  I simply disagree.  What I do
           not do is rant about how you're all automatically evil and wrong
           and stupid without discussion simply for thinking differently.
           Mostly I feel badly for you.  I have hope you'll one day think about
           the world with open eyes and see how it is for others and come
           around.  I'm not giving up on you.
           \_ What are your thoughts on Bush?
              \_ He's not a real conservative.  Mostly, I'm disappointed.
           \_ if only any of this were true....
           \_ I think you so-called real conservatives need to take a good
              look at how suppressing differing viewpoints is really starting
              to hurt America. Here is a case where a good, and it turns out
              accurate, young Marine was driven out for telling the truth.
              The Bush Administration is increasingly driven by ideology and
              not facts.
                        \_ There is no opinion in the military - don't you
                           understand this?  You follow the Commander in
                           Chief's orders - thats it.  If every soldier acted
                           on some whim based on the alignment of the planets
                           chaos would reign (not an effective military
              not facts.
                           machine).
              \_ We've been watching differing viewpoints get suppressed for
                 years in the media.  This is nothing new to us.  We're quite
                 aware how suppressing other viewpoints is bad for America.
                 Pot, kettle, black.  --conservative
                 \_ And your point is...?  Just because it's happened to
                    the conservative team (since all politics can clearly be
                    categorized by one of exactly two labels) doesn't make it
                    somehow magically okay or any more acceptable.  Two wrongs
                    & etc.
                 \_ When others do it, it is just as bad. It is just more
                    disturbing when those in power do it.
                    \_ Maybe you and the person above missed the other reply
                       where I said Bush isn't a real conservative and I'm
                       \_ Well, since you don't sign your fucking posts,
                          expecting people to automatically associate them
                       where I said Bush isn't a real conservative and I'm
                          as originating from the same source is a little
                          silly.
                       mostly disappointed with his actions/policy/whatever?
                       If you think Bush is a conservative, which he isn't,
                       and want to stick real conservatives with his policy
                       as if we all 100% believe in all 100% of it then you're
                       nuts.  That's a strawman argument.  I hope you can do
                       better than that.  Would it make sense for me to claim
                       that Al Sharpton represents all liberals and everything
                       he says and believes is something you all 100% believe
                       at all times, too?  Real conservatives disavowed Bush
                       about 30 days into his first term when one of his first
                       actions was to expand all government programs by 4%
                       across the board.  From that day forward he became
                       nothing more than the lesser evil of the Bush/Gore pair.
                       It's the very same media bias that conservatives
                       complain about that keeps people like you thinking that
                       conservatives like me are pro-Bush zombie ditto head
                       clones.  Real conservatives don't exist in the media.
                       We're just a caricature that your media kicks around.
                       \_ the Weekly Standard crowd aren't "real conservatives"
                          either?  ok, fine.  from now on I will identify all
                          my unusual opinions as those of a "real liberal"
                          and claim every liberal you've ever heard of isn't
                          really a liberal so you can't use any published
                          information on liberal ideology to disagree with me.
                          this is absurd.  why don't you start a new thread
                          and post the three to five most basic priciples of
                          whatever you're calling "real conservatism?"
                          I suspect you're the same person who signs their posts
                          "real conservative" periodically on the motd, and
                          some of us are genuinely curious.
                          -real transcendentalist
                          \_ I don't write for the weekly standard.  They have
                             nothing to do with anything.  It's a for-profit
                             publication of no interest to me.  Some basics:
                             1) smaller government, lower taxes 2) no
                             religious hijacking of government in *either*
                             direction which means the 10 commandments being
                             posted in a school or court room is not a crime,
                             but we shouldn't have prayer in school either, 3)
                             no business in people's personal lives which
                             includes sex, abortion, euthanasia, and other
                             medical decisions, however that also means being
                             gay or whatever doesn't make you a protected
                             class either, 4) the end of government created
                             poverty:  give a man a fish and he eats for a day
                             (and then comes back for another fish tomorrow).
                             There's more but that should give you some idea.
                             The core concept is the government stands in the
                             way of personal achievement and progress for all
                             people once it grows beyond a certain size and
                             exceeds it's mandate as laid out in the
                             constitution.  We need government, because
                             without it we'd have anarchy leading to
                             dictatorship, but we don't need a government that
                             has the power and the will to destroy and steal
                             our freedoms through the sheer size of government
                             and the average citizen's inability to fight
                             against it to protect our most basic rights.
                             Would you like to provide a few summary points of
                             what a real liberal is?
                             \_ actually, I don't consider myself a "real
                                liberal" at all, I just said that to point
                                out the flaw in your argument.  I basically
                                agree with most of the points you claim for
                                "real conservatism".  However, I don't
                                believe you can claim point (3) above for
                                coservatives.  If you look at the opinions
                                of the vast majority of republicans vs.
                                democrats, there is not question that the
                                republicans are the worse party for civil
                                \_   waco, elian, creating swat teams
                                     within virtually every Fed department
                                     (eg. IRS, Forest Service, FEMA)
                                     rural cleansing through endangered
                                     species, etc..... what Pres did this?
                                     The Patriot Act was written
                                     during the Clinton administration and
                                     contains provisions proposed much earlier,
                                     law enforcement has always wanted power.
                                     The Act merely codified actions
                                     used by law enforcement for decades.
                                     The problem is government, period.
                                     If you are concerned with government
                                     intrusion why do you insist on giving
                                     the Fed more power and money to pass
                                     more laws to regulate more aspects of our
                                     lives.  This is common sense, freedom
                                     and a social welfare state are
                                     irreconcilable.  The latter always
                                     marches inexorably towards tyranny.
                                        \_ How many Canadians do you know?  How
                                           many got sick?  The ones I know came
                                           to the US to get medical care
                                           because their oppressive government
                                           doesn't allow them to purchase
                                           better care than the government
                                           offers.  They are forced into using
                                           sub standard care and must cross to
                                           our country to restore their free
                                           access to western medical standards
                                           even though ours has sunk since
                                           HMOs took over and destroyed most
                                           of it, it's still better than there.
                                     \_ Yeah, like Canada.  Those Canadians
                                        with their welfare state and
                                        socialized medicine are so oppressed.
                                     Philosophical support for a small
                                     government inherently protects
                                     liberty... this always has been
                                     provenance of the right (though there
                                     are many, probably a majority, of
                                     RINOs in government).  The 'opinions
                                     of ...' is a very vague term.
                                liberties.  To claim otherwise is an analogous
                                arguement to that made by leftists who
                                claim all the evils of communism in the 20th
                                century were by governments that were
                                "not real communists."  I don't buy into either
                                argument.  Your claims for "real conservatism"
                                sound a lot like William Safire's brand of
                                 "conservatism."  Unfortunately, you and
                                 William Safire appear to be the only
                                 "conservatives" in America who give a
                                 damn about civil liberties.  My point about
                                 real liberals above was just this: just
                                 because I like to call myself a liberal and
                                 believe in smaller government and fewer
                                 \_ Once again, you only see the conservatives
                                    as the leftist media presents them.  It
                                    *really* pisses me off to read the pseudo
                                    right wing op/ed chick in the Chronical
                                    who makes the most idiotic points in the
                                    most illogical manner possible.  We exist
                                    and we are not happy with Bush but it's
                                    better than anything the minority party
                                    has to offer so we hold our nose and vote.
              not facts.
        \_ Here's a good line which motd right-wingers should take to heart,
           "The unfortunate aspect of this is not my demise, but their
           inability to understand or accept the opinions of others as
           different from their own."  And here we see a leftist of all people
           correctly describing the difference between the right and left in
           our little motd world.  As a liberal I understand and accept
           the opinions of the right-wingers here.  I simply disagree.  What I
           do not do is rant about how you're all automatically evil and wrong
           and stupid without discussion simply for thinking differently.
           Mostly I feel badly for you.  I have hope you'll one day think about
           the world with open eyes and see how it is for others and come
           around.  I'm not giving up on you.
           \_ if only any of this were true....
                             what a real liberal is?
                                 subsidies does not make that a liberal ideology
                                 no matter how much I wish it was. so I don't
                                 call myself a liberal.
2003/11/8 [Computer/HW/Display] UID:10990 Activity:nil 74%like:29626
11/7    More Linux memory question: 1024 MB: I ran memtest86 (great program)
        and it sees all 1024 MB, so I think that means it's not a bios issue.
        (also I use a PCI video card, so no AGP) /proc/cmdline says:
        auto BOOT_IMAGE=Linux ro root=301 mem=1024M
        but meminfo (free, top etc) still say   MemTotal:  901392 kB
        Any suggestions as to what I should try next?
2003/11/8 [Health/Dental, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10991 Activity:nil
11/7    Regarding Lynch, the iraqi doctor who treated her first maintains that
        she arrived fully clothed, buttoned, and zipped up.  While treating her
        injuries, including a broken femur, he noticed no evidence of rape.
        \_ Is this the same Iraqi doctor who was complaining how "rude" the
           rescue team was during the rescue?  Who's to say that one of
           the Iraqi guards at the hospital wasn't a "My name is Buck, and
           I'm here to f*ck" type guy?
                        \_ just type fuck. FUCK. sheesh.
        \_ Oh?  So he did a medical inspection for rape, did he?  No.  He
           did no such thing.  Even if this guy isn't lying through his teeth,
           if I was the soldier who raped her ass I'd want to avoid any
           questions and take the 5 seconds to redo her clothing after.  The
           last I checked, looking at a broken femur does not reveal evidence
           of any sort of rape.  Why are you posting this garbage?
           \_ If she had a broken femur, you can bet your ass they cut her
              out of her uniform post-haste to examine the wound.  Any
              reasonable examination of her would immediately reveal anal
              bleeding, leading in turn to further investigation and at
              least suspicion of rape.  The Army reports on PFC Lynch and
              her "rescue" have been shown to have serious factual errors,
              and it does not surprise me that they'd fabricate reports of
              her sodomizing rape in order to stir up the red-blooded
              American sons and soldiers.
              \_ So you know there'd be anal bleeding?  You know they took good
                 care of her?  You know they cut away her uniform and did a
                 proper and full medical inspection?  What are these factual
                 errors in the rescue reports and what is the source of
                 the alleged corrections?  You're just making shit up based on
                 nothing in particular and presenting it as fact.  You don't
                 and *can't* know any of these things.
                 \_ Neither can you, but we can make educated guesses.
                    The only people who know are unfortunately shown
                    to be often untruthful.
                    \_ I believe the random medical reports from the US Army
                       hospital in Germany before I'd believe the Iraqi doctor
                       who has to worry about his life and his family's.
                       \_ Random?  There is nothing random about it right
                          from when they decided to treat the whole
                          incident as a carefully chereographed PR
                          campaign.

                          \_ So you think she hasn't been to a private doctor
                             since then and had it confirmed?  Given her other
                             statements she'd deny the rape if she didn't have
                             her own proof.  So, yes, random.
           \_ "[Lynch] also told Sawyer that she believes the U.S. military
               overdramatized the story of her rescue in Iraq."
        \_ http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/07/sprj.irq.jessica.lynch.doctors.ap
2003/11/8 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:10992 Activity:nil
11/7    Supreme Court: Gay Sex Not Adultery
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1017041/posts
2003/11/8-9 [Uncategorized] UID:10993 Activity:nil
11/7    We had to destroy the village in order to save it.
2003/11/8 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/HW/Display] UID:29626 Activity:nil 74%like:10990
11/7    more Linux memory question 1024 MB: I ran memtest86m and it sees all 1GB,
        so I think that means it's not a bios issue. (I don't have an AGP card)
        /proc/cmdline  says   auto BOOT_IMAGE=Linux ro root=301 mem=1024M
        but meminfo (free, top etc) still say  MemTotal:    901392 kB
        what should I try next?
2003/11/8 [Reference/Tax] UID:29627 Activity:nil
11/7    Here's a nice little story about a county kicking some senile old
        woman off the farm she's owned and lived on for 50 years over a
        questionalbe $572 tax bill.
    http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1068201024262541.xml
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:November:08 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>