Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:29 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2003/10/29 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10833 Activity:moderate
        In particular:
            \_ What is the point of posting this stuff on the motd?
               If you're in neee of an intelligent discussion, then you
               must know there are much better places.  And if you just
               want another utterly boring and predictable.
               The csua motd truly has sunk to new depths of stupidity.
               \_ oh yeah, where?  in discussion groups on the net at large
                  there is a
                  dominant ethos and everyone else is a troll or heckler.
                  on the motd there is no dominant ethos.  I've learned
                  *a lot* from being opened up to ways of thinking different
                  from my own on the motd that I would never have learned from
                  participating in some one-sided love fest on a discussion
                  board where i agree with everyone.  If you haven't learned
                  anything from those who you disagree with, it's your loss.
                  \_ Oh, its the "I've-learned-a-lot-from-the-motd-guy."  You
                     should setup housekeeping with "UCLA-CS-guy" and
                     "freeper-guy" and the ChiCom troll and make babies.
        \_ This is Zionist propaganda - Jews control the world!!
           Actually I've told by expat Syrians, Armenians, etc.
           that many of the suicide bombers have mental problems
           and are heavily recruited by PLO, Hamas etc. because of
           their vulnerability.
           \_ Uhm... Armenians? How did they show up on this thread?
                \_ Well they do border Iran and Turkey.
2003/10/29-30 [Computer/HW/IO] UID:10834 Activity:nil
10/28   Anyone tried the new Kengsington Expert Mouse Optical Trackball?
        I've got version 5 which has problem with dirt gumming up the ball.
        The new one has a speckled reflective greyish ball and 3 optical
        sensors inside the cup and some odd spinning thing around the ball
        which I think is their idea of a mouse wheel.
        \_ Spray the ball with some pledge. Make sure your internal wheels
           are clean. Also you might want to try to apply some anti-static
           spray to the ball. Make sure rolling surface is not charged.
        The new one has a speckled reflective greyish ball and 3 optical
        sensors inside the cup and some odd spinning thing around the ball
        which I think is their idea of a mouse wheel.
2003/10/29-30 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/HW/Display] UID:10835 Activity:nil
10/28   I just bought a VIA C3M266-L socket 370 motherboard on eBay and
        discovered after delivery that ieee1394 is "optional".
        It's brand new. Paid $60, will sell for $55 any takers?
        It's an ATX motherboard that takes a fanless VIA C3 CPU -brett
        \_ Why not just buy an ieee1394 card?
           \_ I need all 3 PCI slots
2003/10/29 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:10836 Activity:nil
10/28   Someone give me a quick way of installing/using spamassassin? Thanks!
        \_ man spam
        \_ can I install spamassassin as non-root on a machine that I don't
           have root on, like... company machine, school, etc?
           \_ yes but it's easier with root.  with some tiny clue you can
              do it as non-root.  you're mostly changing paths around.
                \_ ok I just installed it with non-root. However it only
                   filters 50% of the rules. Should I make it learn it
                   on a frequent basis (e.g. sa-learn --spam mail/spam) or
                   is there a better way? Also is razor a good thing to have?
2003/10/29 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:10837 Activity:nil
10/28   Is there any USENET client that use rule-based algorithm similiar to
        spamassassin and/or Bayesian filters on subject lines / contents
        to filter out spam postings? Spam is a much serious problem in
        newsgroups, yet I haven't find anything that deal with it.
        \_ As a client you don't want to filter on the body.  That requires
           you d/l the body at which point you've already lost.  I don't know
           of one but what I do is use Agent and just set filters for the
           worst of the stupidity and ignore the rest.  Some groups are so
           noisy there's no point though.
           \_ That's ridiculous--the point of spam filtering is not to avoid
              transferring the data, it's to avoid having to look at it.
              Who cares if you have to download it?  -tom
2003/10/29 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:10838 Activity:nil
10/28   My SpamBayes Outlook plugin doesn't seem to do its job anymore.  All
        the Spam that it used to catch floods my inbox now.  I even uninstalled
        and installed the latest version, but it still it does nothing.  I
        have to use Outlook at work.  Anybody else have this problem?  Any
        suggestions for a fix?  I noticed error messages about missing libraries,
        but I'm not sure if that's related.  Please help.  TIA.
        \_ Shit, as a matter of fact, none of my Outlook rules work.  Any ideas?
           \_ Here's an idea. Ditch outlook, use mozilla.
              \_ What a predictable, useless, witless post. -!op
                 \_ I was going to say that but you beat me to it so I'll
                    simply agree.  OP: it's possible your outlook install has
                    been corrupted.  Does your IT Dept do any sort of auto
                    patching over the net?  Maybe there's a virus/worm/spyware/
                    whatever malware on your box that broke it?  The missing
                    libraries line is suspicious.  Which libraries?
              \_ While his response is not very productive, he has a valid
                 point which only hackers understood.  To translate that to
                 real world language, he is really saying:
                 "You may think Outlook is easy to use, but when it fails,
                 it can get really ugly and there isn't a thing any hacker
                 can do to save you from the misery.  You could reinstall
                 outlook (the only feasible way to fix any unknown problem
                 in MS product), or you can try to use some other client
                 which is more standard-complient, such as Mozilla.
                 Being standard complient means you can do things such as
                 backing up your email files a lot easier.
                 \_ Did you and the other guy miss the part where he said he's
                    at work and *cant* use another client?  And please no one
                    bother with the "your workplace sucks, find another job"
                    thing.  Wrong financial era to quit a job over a mail gui.
                    \_ no, Motd censor got rid of it.  If he wants to go for
                        the official route, he wouldn't of asked help on
                        MOTD at first place; he would of asked his company's
                        System Admin to fix it.  Further, it is not his job
                        to install spam filter.  It should of done it at the
                        server level.
                        \_ Bzzt.  Have you ever tried to run server level
                           spam filtering for a company of any decent size?
                           This is an immense problem, and requires a massive
                           amount of man-hours even with the plethora of
                           available methods.  Email/spam blocking must be
                           user specific and user responsible (at least for
                           now). --scotsman
                        Like many of us, we've taken email matter in our
                        own hands.  and we are offering our advice of using
                        some standard, RFC complient email client instead of
                        MS solution. Yes, typical FreeBSD Sodians have their
                        share of bias, but in the case of email client,
                        Microsoft really screwed up.
                        My company uses Outlook as well.  But i use
                        Thunderbird and pop3/imap to connect to my company's
                        server.  I don't have the calendar option, but I can
                        live with that. I sleeps better when i know where
                        is the email archive, and knowing that just about
                        anything can open it.

                 \_ Agreed.  Using Outlook comes at a price, and you're paying
                    it now.  If you have an IT guy, ask him if there are
                    alternatives.  Tell him you're sick of this.  If you don't,
                    then look into setting up an IMAP client that can talk to
                    Outlook, and only use Outlook for Calendaring.  Your mail
                    will be easier to backup, more easily handled, and Soda will
                    love you.
        \_ Here's a nickel kid. Get yerself a real computer.
2003/10/29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:10839 Activity:nil
10/29   Black woman getting Borked?
        In that speech, Brown said that "where government moves in,
        community retreats, civil society disintegrates, and our
        ability to control our destiny atrophies. The result is:
        families under siege, war in the streets, unapologetic
        expropriation of property, the precipitous decline of
        the rule of law, the rapid rise of corruption, the
        loss of civility and the triumph of deceit."
        \_ Racist
2003/10/29 [Uncategorized] UID:10840 Activity:nil
10/29   Safire embraces Rosie Palm and her five sisters
        \_ Is he the one who now and then pretends to interview
           richard nixon from beyond the grave?  That's funny
           sometimes.  I think George Will has recently gone
           of the deep end into William Faulkner land
        \_ Safire is walking a dangerous line when he lumps Cubs
           fans with Saddam-hunters and his own brand of "Conservative"
2003/10/29 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:10841 Activity:nil
10/29   New Republican policy on Iraq "just mow the whole place down"
2003/10/29-30 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:10842 Activity:high
10/29   I am a dumbass pine user.  my inbox has grown to 2000 messages, and I
        need to use some simple program to sort all the messages into folders
        by sender, then start using a program that will let me sort messages
        into different folders and has more power, but is not just a command
        line program like mail.  any reccomendations? I'm tired of being a
        dumbass and am willing to read whatever docs i need to, but i don't
        want to have to switch again.  thanks.
        \_ Try mutt.  It has pattern matching tagging and the like.
           % mutt -f mailspool
           Tpattern (Tag all messages matching "pattern")
           ;s (Save all tagged messages to specified folder)
           ;d (delete all tagged messages)
           \_ thanks!
        \_ Use mh!
           \_ he's using pine.  what makes you think he'll be able to deal
              with non-mbox utils?
              \_ he's willing to read whatever docs he needs to do to handle
              \_ he's willing to read whatever docs he needs to handle
                 his mail the best way possible.  if you're lazy then sure
                 go ahead and use some toy.  if you want to take total and
                 final control over your email forever, procmail and mh are
                 the way to go.  mutt users think pine users are morons for
                 using a different mail toy.  mh users understand that pine
           \_ It can also hog up soda's CPU if you misconfigure it.
              \_ misconfigure how?  What is the pitfall to avoid here?
                 i don't read my mail on soda, so it'll actually be
                 someone else's CPU, but i don't want to be a dick
                 there either.
                \_ Ya, several months back some pine user switched to mutt
                   and his mutt was using like 99% CPU.
                 users are just mh users who haven't read the docs yet.
        \_ If you enable aggregate select in pine, then you can do what
           you want.
           ; (aggregate select)
           t (by text)
           f (from)
           <enter the sender>
           a (apply)
           s (save to)
2003/10/29-30 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:10843 Activity:nil
10/29   Does CSUA use Razor, Pyzor, DCC, or any other extension? And who
        maintains them (you have to sa-learn to learn new tricks)?
2003/10/29-30 [Recreation/Sports] UID:10844 Activity:nil
10/29   How are spreads created? I'm bored at work and want to create a
        free market (with spreads if possible) for betting on random
        events at work, like "How much longer before Sue and Jack break up?"
        and "4 to 1 odds that the Christmas party will be cancelled?"
        Ya, it's entirely stupid, and the idea is not original (the movie
        40 days and 40 nights had the same sort of thing),
        but like I said, I'm bored.
        \_ Unless you're intimately knowledgeble about people's betting
           habits and personal lives, forget it. Instead, run a pool. Payoffs
           depend on how much people put into it. There is no chance of you
           losing money (unless you bet) and you can be a lot less accurate
           about the outcome, since it doesn't really matter who wins.
        \_ You're looking for odds, not spreads:
           That said, you're talking about setting quantifiable odds for
           qualitative results, and that's a mug's game.  If you're really
           bored, establish a trash-can free-throw game, watch the other
           players practice, and set your odds based on their hit-miss ratio.
        \_ Ever look at ?  The way they do it is make a
           'contract' that pays $1 if an event happens or $0 if it doesn't.
           A player Andy can sell a contract to Bob for, say $0.30.  If the
           event doesn't happen, Andy keeps his $0.30.  If it happens, Andy has
           to pay Bob $1 (but keeps the $0.30 he got for selling the contract)
           Anyone can buy and sell contracts as they please and the prices move
           The spread occurs whenever there are no buyers at the price the
           sellers are willing to accept.
        \_ odds are different, but casinos and sports books adjust lines
           so that they'll get pretty close to an even amount bet on both
           \_ How exactly does that work? If I set the spread for the Lakers
              game at 7.5 points and everyone is betting on the Lakers, can I
              change the spread to 11.5 and void the previous bets?
              \_ No, the previous bets still stand, but now you get more bets
                 against the Lakers
              \_ as above.  Once you increase the spread(assuming Lakers are
                 favored), you'd get fewer bets on the Lakers and more against.
                 Thus, they adjust until they get even amounts of bets on both
                 sides, and the net payout approx. = net gain, regardless of
                 outcome.  That's why you see lines adjusting as events get
                 Thus, Vegas lines are not a probability of winning, they're
                 a snapshot of what the betting community thinks the prob.
                 of winning are.
                 \_ Perhaps less obviously, all probabilities are a snapshot
                    of someone's belief of what the probability of something
                    is.  -- card-carrying bayesian
        \_ There was an article recently in the SmartMoney magazine about a
           professional sports better.  Besides doing lots of research, he
           would have several people working for him placing bets all at the
           same time such that the spread doesn't move against him.
        \_ hey good way to get fired.  what company is this?  where do i send
           my resume to get your job when you're gone?
2003/10/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10845 Activity:high
        Rabbis back Israeli 'guard pigs'   -- Mohammed Rosenberg
        \_ All the pigs have laser beams attached to their heads.
           Every creature deserves a warm meal.
        \_ Nothing in the kosher laws says you can't go near a pig or use it
           as a guard pig or anything else.  You just can't eat one because
           of health reasons.
             \_ The best thing to do is feed them to pigs;  you gotta starve
                the pigs for a few days, then the sight of a chopped up body
                will look like curry to a piss head.
             \_ nothing in the "kosher law" says anything about "health"
                \_Poorly cooked pork may contain Trichinella parasites,
                  amongst other things. It's why you should really cook pork
                  thoroughly before consuming it. Trichinella is very nasty,
                  causing death due to heart failure if not treated.
                  \_ umm... the chance of getting trichinosis in the US is
                     smaller than the chance of getting struck by lightning.
                \_ its common sense.  all the forbidden animals are bottom
                   feeds and filth eaters.  the laws aren't random.  it was
                   a way to let the people know what was ok or not to eat.
                   ask your rabbi.
2003/10/29-30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:10846 Activity:very high
10/29   And so it begins, bit by bit the death of outsourcing:
        Send your shit overseas or to someone with no attachment to the US and
        reap the 'rewards'.  This is an extra zinger on top of last week's
        UCSF medical transcription extortion problem.
        Send your shit overseas or to someone with no attachment to the US and
        reap the 'rewards'.  This is an extra zinger on top of last week's
        UCSF medical transcription extortion problem.
        \_ Ehh. That could happen regardless of outsourcing.
           \_ Bzzt not quite.  In this concrete example, Russia has very
              weak to nonexistent computer crime laws.  There has historically
              been almost no interest on the part of Russian law enforcement
              agencies to cooperate (for better or worse) with their western
              counterpart in areas like this.  -John
            \_ yeah right, try it here and your ass would be in prison by the
               end of the week.  if it was that easy it'd happen all the time
               or do you just believe that American employees are just really
               ethical compared to their foreign counterparts?
2003/10/29-30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:10847 Activity:nil
10/29   I'm running a java program that does 1000's of simulations.  top
        shows that the process only takes up about 1-2% CPU, peaking ~10%,
        and only 2% memory.  However, the machine runs slow.  Why would
        this be?  Also, any suggestions on how to speed up the code to
        make it greedy, thereby speeding up the sim's?
        \_ The process could be IO-bound, taking up all the bus bandwidth.
           This stalls the CPU and can happen with a small memory footprint,
           which fits the observed behavior.
           \_ More specifically, is your process writing to / reading from
              the hard disk? (e.g., outputting huge stat files)
              \_ It would work with memory too, even if no disk activity is
              \_ Yes. it is.  Specifically, There's a perl program that
                 iterates a java program.  Each iteration takes ~3 min.
                 The perl writes to a file the results of the iteration.
                 The java issues System.out.println, as well.
                 \_ How huge are the files for each 3-minute iteration?
                    \_ 5 lines or so.   Fairly compact.
                       \_ I'm guessing you're working memory really hard.  top
                          isn't the only tool available.  What os are you
                          running this on?  Top is a sledgehammer.  You need
                          a screwdriver or maybe a scalpel.
                          \_ Linux RH 7.2
                             \_ Go to freshmeat and grab any of the memory or
                                other system profilers.
                                \_ thanks
                          \_ I had some similar problems - try running a
                             java profiler on your program, it can be very
                             helpful in determining bottlenecks.  The one I
                             ended up using was "jprofiler", you can get a
                             10-day evaulation code... (google for jprofiler,
                             it's by ej-technologies)
                 \_ you mean the perl program launches a JVM every 3 mins?
                    start by factoring your code properly to run maybe 100
                    or 1000 iterations in a single JVM launch.  your RH 7.2
                    makes me think old hardware too.  on today's PC, we
                    still see absurd (10-20s) latency for launching a recent
                    java runtime to the point of our code sending some bytes.
                    that would be as much as 10% of the total runtime.
                    \_ I wanted to do that.  However, it's a constraint of the
                       sim that the JVM gets launched for each sim.
                 \_ i think these claims that memory access doesn't count
                    against CPU time is bullshit. CPU time is charged to
                    a process for as long as it is marked as running. access
                    to memory, as long as no page faults happen, will keep your
                    process marked as running. -ali.
                        \_ your reading comp is weak ali. How the hell did
                           you even get into Berkeley.
                    \_ i dont think anyone claimed that.
2003/10/29-30 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:10848 Activity:nil 50%like:10723
10/29   is there a graphical version of netstumbler for
        linux/freebsd ?
        \_ dstumbler?  It's ncurses at least.
2003/10/29-30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:10849 Activity:nil
10/29   Hosting question...
        So what are some recomendations for very cheap and reliable
        hosting options? I want DB support (MySQL, or postgres), JSP/servlet
        stuff, and other general scripting things like PErl, PHP. I'd also
        like to get a couple domains, and dont have any access to servers
        to do name serving. thanks.
        \_ when you find this magical utopian provider that will cheaply and
           reliably host your entire network, your db, java engine and every
           thing else and do it on their own hardware, please let the rest of
           us know.  i've got 40 racks of servers i'd like to move to this
           \_ well "cheap" and "reliable" are obviously relative, and there
              is obviously an inverse correlation between the two. There
              are many places that will do most of what asked about and
              I was just soliciting recommendations. ... but thanks for
              keeping the motd useless.
              \_ my pleasure.  next time ask an answerable question and you
                 might get an answer you can use.
        \_ how about 10 of us pitch in for a nice Linux box and co-locate it.
           We'll run it like an extension of CSUA, or a colony of it. A bunch
           of us can vote what should be there and what shouldn't, and some
           of us can manage portions of it like postgres, apache, sendmail,
           spamassassin, etc etc. It'll be more efficient than CSUA since
           there are less people and no politburo, and it'll be better
           because there are less users.
           \_ Why would anyone want that?  I come here for the people.  Most of
              us already have jobs and high speed near-the-backbone net access
              if we wanted to grab an IP and dump a box outside the corp. fw
              for personal use.
2003/10/29-30 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/HW] UID:10850 Activity:nil
10/29   hello I need to purchase a couple of 2U rackmount intel
        compatible servers and I am low on funds.  suggestions
        of where to get such a thing? - danh
        \_ Work with a dot-bomb liquidator. You can prob pick one
           up on the cheaps.
           ebay, or craigslist.
        \_ I buy them (1U and 2U) from Western Scientific ( I bought
           ~30 2U and ~30 1U systems from them with satisfactory results. They
           have the best prices anywhere (for me=govt). YMMV. --dim
2003/10/29-31 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Industry/Startup] UID:10851 Activity:nil
10/29   Hi all, anyone out there have office space to sublease or working
        at a company that is subleasing space?  I'm looking for someplace
        very inexpensive to put 2 to 3 desks.   Otherwise anyone out there
        want to go halves on a 1500 sq. ft. room that is only $900/month total,
        including use of the bldg T1 ?  This is a great price in a very nice
        Bldg in oakland.  (Am i crazy for soliciting for a business flat-mate
        on them motd? flames welcome.) -crebbs
        \_ Here's a flame: learn how to format motd posts, you moron!
            \_ umm, boy, lousy flame.  My post is the minimum number of lines
               that it could be without having too-long lines.  I see no
               disadvantage to having too-short lines, given that. -crebbs
               \_ actually you had some extra spaces.  i removed them but
                  yeah the other guy is an idiot.  that flame wasn't enough
                  to LIGHT CANDLE.
        \_ Nope. just pathetic it seems.
2003/10/29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:29595 Activity:high
10/28   UC Berkeley professor George Lakoff tells how conservatives use language
        to dominate politics.
        \_ I think the particulars of his metaphor are WAY off. -- ilyas
        \_ They need to learn the meaning of the word "brevity"
        \_ Uhm yeah and leftists don't.  Turn on cnn sometime.
           \_ What makes you think Ted Turner is a leftist?
              \_ Bahwahahhaha!!  AMC?
                 \_ AMC is not a rightwing asshole.  go suck a dick.  -AMC
                    \_ You're not the AMC.  The AMC is funny.
                 \_ Um...
        \_ He's created a 'think tank'.  Which ideas are these exactly?
           Victory of the proletariat?  Universal health care, 100 % income
           redistribution?  Enhanced race baiting and vote buying?
           You are seeing (I hope) the death throes of Socialism / Communism.
           \_ Hey, how do we make the freeper guy go away?
              \_ well, when you figure out how to make "the freeper guy" go
                 away let the rest of us know so we can deal with the
                 tens of millions of these fuckers who are holding our
                 country hostage.
                 \_ yeah, the majority of voters, buncha fuckers deciding how
                    the country is run when it should really be the elite
                    liberal minority.  we all know elections are just to keep
                    the people in fly over country from spreading east and
                    west and shooting us all from their suvs and pickups while
                    we're out enjoying nature, riding our linux powered bikes.
                    we should elect hillary empress because she knows whats
                    best for everyone.  it takes a village idiot to vote (D).
        \_ Well, he's right that most liberals sound like idiots.  I certainly
           am tired of hearing the same old lame propaganda from the 1890s.
           Or wait, does that make me an evil capitalist oppressor, or just
           a racist?
           \_ both.  you're also a dead rich white male fascist as well even
              if we know from (white man's) history that you were brilliant
              but poor and gave up what little you had including often your
              life for this country.  go look up what happened to the signers
              of the D of I.  several were shot/executed, and almost all of
              them died poor after either having everything they owned
              confiscated or donating it to the cause of freedom.  fucking
              dead rich white male capitalist oppressor racist bastards.
        \_ 'Taxes are what you pay to be an American, to live in a civilized
           society that is democratic and offers opportunity, and where there's
           an infrastructure that has been paid for by previous taxpayers.'
           Funny, what percentage of the (much lower) taxes in CA where spent
           on "infrastructure" in the 60s and what percentage is spent now?
           (answer: over 30, much less than 3 respectively) and who was it
           (need you ask?) that supported enacting a 3% minimum? and who
           opposed?  hint:  they need that money to give to those on "the dole"
2003/10/29 [Uncategorized] UID:29596 Activity:high
10/29   How many Looney Cartoons were made? (1930-1969)
        \_ 1100
2003/10/29 [Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:29597 Activity:nil
10/29   fuck you
2020/07/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:29 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>