Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:15 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2003/10/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10630 Activity:high
10/14   I have been saying this for years, but it is nice to see it
        finally getting reported in the media. -ausman
        http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
        \_ 224 lines and counting. Damn you're good.
        \_ Heh, the village voice.  The media.  Heh.  And the freeper guy gets
           beat on by all sides around here.  At least the freepers don't
           pretend they're real media.  Why don't you just post links from The
           People's Daily World or hey! straight from Pravda!  They have an
           English language version on the net!
           \_ You misspelled "Xinhua."
              \_ Hey, thanks!  Now I can find out the People's Truth about
                 the advancements and prosperity occuring with each new Five
                 Year Plan in Greater China!
                 \_ Hehe, when I was in Shanghai (oh so many years ago), I
                    had the pleasure of reading that every province in PRC
                    was on course to meet its Five Year Plan objectives.
                    I'm reminded of the Italian airforce disassembling,
                    transporting, and reassembling airplanes just ahead of
                    Mussolini's tour of the facilities.
           \_ The Voice has a readership of over 1/4 M and often breaks
              stories that are then covered in the mainstream media. You
              may not like their slant, but they are considered serious
              media by most of the rest of the world. -ausman
              \_ Heh.  Let's compare to the number of people who listen
                 to Limbaugh.
              \_ Head count does not a real journalist make as the above
                 makes clear.  At least you admit they are slanted which was
                 my point.
                 \_ So is the National Review, but it doesn't mean that there
                    aren't good ideas in there. Why not discuss the ideas
                    instead of shooting the messenger? -ausman
        \_ The hundreth version of puerile liberal blathering.  If
           you're going to criticize the Iraq policy don't turn it
           into a political grievance free for all.   Stay focused.
           It is incumbent upon the author, or any liberal
           author for that matter, to propose a plausible alternative
           strategy for dealing with militant Islam besides
           group hug, bring the troops home, close my eyes
           the problem will go away.
           I'm not holding my breath.
           \_ doesn't this entire statement depend on what you subjectively
              term 'plausible'?
              \_ you think 'group hug, close eyes' is a plausible anti-terror
                 strategy?  -!the above
           \_ Waitasec.  Are you saying that the neocon method of security
              through force of arms is the only reasonable foreign/domestic
              policy that's been put out on the table?  Take off the
              blinders and read, son!
              \_ I've yet to see an alternative beyond the standard list of
                 "we shouldn't do the thing we're doing now" whining.  How
                 about you post a summary in the same way you've reduced the
                 current policy to a dozen words?   -!the above
                   \_ How about I give you a few buzzwords, and you nitpick
                      the hell out them as per usual?
                      -- enforce Economic Sanctions against countries that
                         delay democratically held elections
                        \_ Been there, done that, you leftists whine about
                           how we're only hurting the people and not the
                           corrupt leaders.  It was only this last year
                           right up to the moment we invaded Iraq that you
                           were bitching about wanting to end sanctions.
                           \_ Straw man. Only a very small minority was
                              for ending sanctions.
                              \_ Bullshit alert!  It was the theme of the day
                                 in your media, plus the motd and wall were
                                 covered with that as well for the local
                                 perspective.
                                   \_ Let's take a poll.  I'm liberal. I never
                                      supported this.  sig's preferred. -nivra
                                      wanted to end sanctions:
                                      did not want to end sanctions:
                                          nivra,
                                      wanted to switch to "smart sanctions":
                                          ausman
                                 \_ Do you have any evidence that a majority
                                    of "leftists" were in favor of removing
                                    sanctions? Post sources, please.
                           \_ well apparently, the sanctions worked in
                              Iraq, as Saddam didn't develop WMD.
                              \_ With 60,000 tons of material to look through
                                 you don't know that.
                                 \_ The evidence, thus far, points to that.
                      -- enforce arms embargoes against countries that deal
                         in nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons
                        \_ Been there, done that.  Talk to China, Germany,
                           France, and the Russians.  I don't see an embargo
                           of any sort against any of these countries anytime
                           soon.  BTW, history lesson: the Japanese saw our
                           oil embargo of their country as an act of war which
                           is part of the reason for Pearl Harbor.
                           \_ How about the arms embargo against Iraq? Did it
                              fail?
                              \_ Yes, actually, it did.  They still had plenty
                                 enough to fire at our jets enforcing the no
                                 fly zone and keep 20+ million people outside
                                 the sunni triangle area in terror.
                                 \_ hello? read the original sentence:
                                    "nuclear, chemical, or biological"
                                    see above. evidence thus far ...
                                    Also, who caused dismantling of medium
                                    range missiles shortly before invasion?
                                    oh, that's right, a toothless org
                                    called the UN -nivra
                      -- pay our dues to the UN, throw our muscle behind the
                         UN's health and peacekeeping operations
                        \_ Group hug!  This is going to stop middle class
                           Saudi terrorists how exactly?
                           \_ the question is, why are middle class
                              Saudi terrorists attacking the US?  Could it
                              have something to do with our military
                              operations in the middle east?  Oh, just
                              forget it.
                              \_ I won't forget it.  You're now changing the
                                 topic.  I will address.  You implied that the
                                 problem is poverty.  You know it isn't.  The
                                 real problem is we're now engaged in a war of
                                 cultures and different values.  Terrorism is
                                 only the tool the enemy uses.  They'd use
                                 tanks and bombers if they could.  The Arab
                                 world is still bitter about having lost their
                                 once great empire and seen their culture
                                 stagnate.  It's easy to argue that Islamic
                                 extremism and the tightly interwoven control
                                 of state religion has held them back and the
                                 anti-democratic Arab nations now need a scape
                                 goat for their own government's failings.  The
                                 obvious goat is the West and the US in
                                 particular who were either barbarians or
                                 didn't even exist during the height of their
                                 cultural period but now rule the world.
                                 They're pissed off and until they decouple
                                 their religion from the government affairs and
                                 give their people a voice and their economies
                                 modernise they're doomed and we're doomed to
                                 fight them as well.
                                 \_ The first eight crusades ended in failure.
                                    What makes you think this one will be
                                    any different?
                                 \_ Stop buying the lies.  This is not a war
                                    of cultures and different values: they
                                    all want coca cola, self-determination,
                                    and the freedom to practice their wacky
                                    religious practices just as much as we
                                    do.  The difference is that their
                                    governments oppress the hell out of them,
                                    deny them education, real jobs, health
                                    care, and freedom of speech.  We prop
                                    up their governments and throw our weight
                                    around, so they naturally see us as
                                    targets.  They're not at war with USA--
                                    they really just want us to leave them
                                    the hell alone.
                           \_ This, at minimum, would have given the UN more
                              strength and enable it to find the truth about
                              WMD in Iraq, thereby avoiding a costly war/
                              nation-building process that has drained
                              US resources from fruitful hunt for Al-Qaeda
                              terrorists in Afghanistan.
                              \_ You're assuming the UN wanted to find out the
                                 truth about anything.  The UN is an org that
                                 is focused on smoothing things over, not on
                                 catching and punishing anyone.  It's a
                                 diplomatic org and was always intended to be.
                                 Trying to give the UN police powers is a huge
                                 mistake.  It'll never work and never has.
                                   \_ first sentence, UN charter:
                                      "WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS
                                       DETERMINED to save succeeding generations
                                       from the scourge of war, which twice in
                                       our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to
                                       mankind,"  Is the US more interested in
                                      "catching and punishing" than it is in
                                      preventing, halting, and winning the war
                                      against terror?  Oh, certainly the UN
                                      resolutions and UN mandate failed in 1991.
                      -- stop making payola foreign aid payments to countries
                         where the money gets sucked into the pockets of the
                         ruling class
                        \_ That would be every non-Western country on the
                           planet.  But in general I agree with you.  We
                           should stop wasting money on third world welfare.
                      -- avoid armed conflict where possible, but be prepared
                         with an exit strategy for those places where we must
                         act
                        \_ I agree with you here.
                           \_ Then apparently you disagree with what Bush
                              has done in Iraq. Armed conflict was not
                              necessarily called for at that juncture in
                              time, and he had no coherent exit strategy
                              at all.
                              \_ I disagree in part with what Bush has done in
                                 Iraq.  I'm disappointed and unhappy that they
                                 weren't prepared to deal with the aftermath of
                                 a successful military campaign.  I suspect
                                 they thought fighting would last a few months
                                 and they had time to plan for it.  No one
                                 expected the Iraqi military to crumble in a
                                 few days but we should have been prepared for
                                 that anyway.
                                 \_ 6 months out, this excuse holds no water.
                                 \_ you failed to address the first half. You
                                    say you agree that the US should avoid
                                    armed conflict where possible, but Bush
                                    clearly didn't.  Re: the 2nd half, the
                                    Bush admin. was clearly predicting and
                                    hoping for a clear, decisive victory,
                                    complete with surrendered Iraqi batallions,
                                    etc.  Yet you say they didn't expect the
                                    Iraqi military to crumble?  PS. it took
                                    more than a few days...   -nivra
                      -- share intelligence with our allies and justify our
                         actions with actual evidence
                        \_ Who are our allies?  Is France?  Germany?  Russia?
                        \_ 1) we do.  2) justify to?  I don't think making you
                           happy fuzzy feel good at the expense of foreigners
                           exposing their country's corrupt regimes is the way
                           to go.  After the first few get exposed and executed
                           the intelligence is going to dry up.  Although we
                           know that American media won't expose the crimes of
                           foreign dictators because they might lose access to
                           the country.  For 2 points, name that bastion of
                           left wing thought that knew about Saddam's mass
                           murdering ways and covered it up! Mea Culpa!
                      Let the nitpicking begin!
                        \_ No nitpicking.  You posted the standard group hug
                           stuff and these are the standard responses to which
                           I've never seen a real counter point.
                           \_ So you agree with 2 group hug points? Awww.
                              A little more empathy, and you'll pass the
                              the V-K.
                              \_ I agree with 2 points and partially agree with
                                 a third.  When I see the left start
                                 complaining about third world welfare to
                                 corrupt regimes I'll take the left seriously.
                        \_ "Every time anyone says that Israel is our
                            only friend in the Middle East, I can't help
                            but think that before Israel, we had no enemies
                            in the Middle East." -Jesuit Priest John Sheehan
                            \_ Yeah, the Societas Jesu always were on best of
                               terms with the Jews since its founding.
                            \_ Yes, quoting a priest from another religion to
                               support your anti-Israeli bias is interesting.
                               Should anyone bother pointing out that the
                               middle east was a British controlled super sized
                               colony (plus the french got syria) for the
                               entire modern era before Israel was created? No,
                               it sounds cooler and more witty to snap off one
                               liners which ignore historical reality.  You
                               know we didn't have an energy problem in CA
                               before all you white people showed up!  There
                               were enough acorns for everyone!
        \_ He's nuts, more nutty than Dubya.
           \_ Ask anyone outside of CA what they think of people from
              Berkeley vs. W. 9 out of 10 will call you the nut.
              \_ The Red states maybe. Probably not in the Blue states.
                 \_ Rush Limbaugh had a map of votes by county.  It was a very
                    funny map because the US landmass was basically red, except
                            \_ Well Societas Jesu were good friends of the
                               Jews since their founding.
                    a few narrow strips near the oceans.
                 \_ I assume you are refering to the electoral college.
                    You forget the popular vote was very close.
2003/10/15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10632 Activity:high
10/14   China launches manned flight!
        \_ don't be so proud.  Key components are foreign nature, that
           include the capsule (based upon Russian's Soyou(sp?), and the
           navigation system is made by Hughs Electronics.
           \_ Soyuz (Union).
           \_ There are rumors that not all scientists working on the Apollo
              missions were born in the USA.
              \_ ...so? certainly not all scientists working on the manhattan
                 project were born in the US.
                 \_ That was sarcasm.  I don't think the fact the China
                 mission uses foreign components detracts from the achievement
                 anymore than the US using foreign-born scientists/engineers/
                 whatever in the Apollo program.
              \_ It's not rumors. The US got top V2 rocket engineers from
                 Germany after WWII. They felt German pride with all their
                 accomplishments with rockets for the US including the lunar
                 landing. There was a PBS program about this. That being said,
                 I think the Chinese were the ones that invented rockets, so it
                 has come full circle somewhat.
                 \_ The German's V2 was stolen from Goddard.
                \_ "German Pride" caused WWI and WWII.  We can do without it.
             \_ There's a difference between having foreign-born Americans
                work on something, and getting help from foreign governments.
                 landing. There was a PBS program about this.
           \_ BFD.  so, the Chinese engineering/integration had nothing
              to do with it?  It's all in the parts?  --Jon
              \_ I agree.  The Chinese deserve credit.
        \_ "It's been done."  Seriously what's the big deal?
           \_ We need another space race to advance technology and create
              jobs. A little rivalry is not a bad thing. Bring on Mars!!!
                \_ No wonder it's so short.
              \_ Hey, baby, that's not a rocket in my pocket -bclinton
        \_ Correction: China _says_ they have manned spaceflight.  They
           cancelled the live broadcast.  We'll find out later if the guy
           went up in flames on the way up or during reentry.
           \_ Learn Engrish first lah.  All op said was "launches".
              \_ We don't know it was manned.  We only know what the Chinese
                 government says, lah!  I'll grant that they probably did
                 launch a rocket because we can satellite track it.  But was
                 a real live human being inside?  Shrug.
                 \_ There comes a point in any conspiracy theory where you
                    have to ask yourself: is it more work to maintain the
                    conspiracy or to actually do what they say they've done?
                    \_ True.  Consider how trivially easy it is to hide the
                       fact that no human's in a rocket.  Without a live
                       broadcast.
                       \_ Actually, they sent up OJ Simpson.  Really. I saw
                \_ All we need is a TV clip showing that Chinese pilot talking
                   in a weightless environment.  Then either there was a
                   manned flight in orbit, or the Chinese has advanced its
                   special effect technology to create a fake weightlessness
                   footage which is still a huge achievement.
                   \_ i dont think the Chinese are faking it.  However,
                      if you want to take footage in zero g without going to
                      space it's pretty easy to do in a plane.
                      \_ Yeah, but in a Chinese plane?
              to do with it?  It's all in the parts?  --Jon
                          the movie.
2003/10/15 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:10633 Activity:kinda low
10/14   I want a fanless CPU (500-1000 MHz) on a mobo with multiple PCI slots.
        Any ideas or suggestions?
        \_ Zalman.  And while you're at it check out the hottie at <DEAD>zalman.com<DEAD>
           \_ yuck + lame.
           \_ I already have a quiet computer that uses Zalman fans, but
              it still heats up the room. I'd prefer something that uses
              less power that a traditional CPU. THanks.
              \_ Oh!  So you want a PDA?  I suggest something Linux based.
                 Also, if you use candles you'll save power, too.
              \_ abacus.

 10/14 Where's a place online to check for existing lawsuits? All I have
       are names...
       \_ a specific court or you want to find out if your ex-gf is
          getting divorced in some unknown state?
2003/10/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Recreation/Travel] UID:10634 Activity:nil
10/15   I am planning on visiting Guandong, Shanghai, Beijin, etc. this coming
        year.  Generally speaking, what time of the year would be best to visit
        these places?  If I want to do more than take a kodak in each city, how
        many cities should I visit in about 2 weeks?  And, is it better/safer
        for a single guy to travel alone, with a guy buddy, his gf, or his
        regular female friend travel with him?  Lastly, what are some good
        words to search for besides "china", "guandong", "shanghai", "beijin",
        "travel", "tour", ...  Thanks.
        \_ best time is actually *NOW*, right after their national holiday
           vacation (which span seven days) on October 1st. before
           the weather turned cold.  One problem with
           China is that it has too many people.  I personally find it
           difficult to enjoy scenary, no matter how beatiful it is,
           when there are couple thousands of other guys doing the exact
           same thing at the same time.   China in general are pretty
           safe.  For starter, stick with may be 3 cities.  Beijing,
           Xi'An, and may be Shanghai (especially the nearby city like
           Suzhou).  If you hever been in China before
           3-4 cities is a good start for a 2 week period.
           \_ Safe in general, true, but when it comes to your belongings
              you should be very watchful.  There are known to be some
              pickpockets in the bigger cities.  Oh, and try to take
              a boat ride along the river in Guilin.
              \_ What are you saying?  It's the worker's paradise!  Racist!
        \_ The best travel time is just before the Japanese show up to gang
           bang the entire staff at the local hotels.  You don't want seconds.
           \_ Those women weren't hotel staff.  They were brought in.
        \_ Can I still visit if I don't know how to speak Chinese?
           \_ Don't worry, they'll assign a minder to you.  They'll always be
              one block behind.
              \_ Not in Shanghai.  The authorities will simply assume that
                 every pimp and nightclub owner will report on you anyway.
2003/10/15-16 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:10635 Activity:nil
10/15   Are there any Moz Firebird mirrors out there? on CSUA?
        \_ For which OS?
        \_ Windows build .7 is in /csua/tmp
                \_ did it work for you? the file seemed corrupted (WinXP)
                   \_ yeah didn't see any probs, and the md5s match.
        \_ They generally recommend starting out with a new profile for
           new releases.  Just wondering, what do people move over from
           their old one, other than their bookmarks? (is it easier to
           port the cookie lists/etc, or just nuke and start from scratch?)
2003/10/15-16 [Computer/HW/IO, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:10636 Activity:nil
10/15   On Windows 2000, how do I stop the mouse from automatically moving
        to highlighted button of a popup window?
        \_ Control Panel -> Mouse.  Turn off "Snap to", Automatically move
           pointer to the default button in a dialog box.
2003/10/15-16 [Computer/Companies/Yahoo, Politics] UID:10637 Activity:nil
10/15   "Yahoo! News - Girl Scouts Work to Punch Up Image"
        http://csua.org/u/4pq
        What has Girl Scouts become?  Next there will be Girl-Scouts-sponsered
        orgy and a grand price for the girl who gets the most dicks in the
        night.
        \_ Girl Scouts has always sucked.  I had a number of female friends
           who joined the boy scouts because they were sick of the lameass
           shit they did in the girl scouts.
           \_ do the boy scouts allow that?!?!
              \_ Explorer scouts
        \_ dead link.
           \_ Looks like http://csua.org is down.
        \_ This would require the girl scouts to promote heterosexuality.
2003/10/15-16 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:10638 Activity:nil
10/15   I am looking for an mp3 player for my brother as a gift.  What
        features should I look for in a low-end (<$100) player?  I haven't
        yet decided whether to get the small memory type or the larger
        ones that fits a CD yet.  Any brands I should get/avoid?  TIA.
                                                                - brendal
        \_ I got a Panasonic mp3/cd player for $50 that I like.  Having the
           CD capacity was a major factor in my choice though.
        \_ does he run?  if so, you have to get one of those non-CD ones.
           does he like a large capacity (for < $100).  Then get the
           CD one.
           \_ definitely a thing to consider.  Even HD based players are
              known to skip when running.  As for quality, iRiver has a
              die-hard following.  And iRiver constantly releases firmware
              updates to add features.  Ogg supporting FW should be out
              sometime this month for most of their products.  I personally
              have the iFP-380T from iRiver.  Oh, and I heard Costco sells
              a cheap flash player that acts as a usb storage device, with
              the USB connector right on the device.  But it doesn't have
              any sort of display.
        \_ I had the Creative Nomad. The one that doubles as a USB storage
           device. It broke on me after the warranty period. I replaced it
           with a Sonic Blue Rio and it's been fine ever since.
        \_ Pony up the dough and get your brother the CW300.  Search for this
           on http://newegg.com.  My brother got one and he loves it.  See amazon
           for the 5-star rating/reviews.  Blows everything else out of the
           water.  I have a Creative Muvo, piece of crap compared to the CW300.
2003/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:10639 Activity:nil
10/15   Will there be any sort of audio/video recording of the Matt Dillon
        presentation at the upcoming csua meeting?
        \_ For just one brief, brief moment I thought you might have meant
           the actor, and I was almost tempted, for the first time in
           history, to attend a CSUA meeting.
2003/10/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:10640 Activity:nil
10/15   Finally, an article the helps all you out there understand those
        who chose to make a leap of faith (I don't but I still vote that way)
        http://slate.msn.com/id/2089641
        \_ cool, learn something new
                        -non Christian outcast
        \_ "Based on their income and education levels, Jews ought to be
            voting Republican...."  Say what?  What is he saying about Jewish
            education levels and income?
            \_ That they remind him of Idaho???
               \_ Hey, you're on a roll today.  Do you have any books with
                  lists of jokes about blacks, mexicans, and women, too?
            \_ And the final nail in that coffin is that people vote based on
               what they believe in and their own goals, not based on their
               race, religion, or other tidy little demographic title.
2003/10/15-16 [Reference/Military] UID:10641 Activity:moderate
10/15   So, how would "everyone being required to own and carry a gun with
        them at all times" logic have prevented a crime like the shooting
        of the girl answering a door in Richmond?  Oh wait, being poor and
        not white, she got what she deserved.
        \_ Everyone on the block would've gunned him down after it happened.
           \_ Only in your John Woo Cowboy fantasies.
              \_ This happens every day, and not just in NRA literature.
                 There was a recent story in SF Chronicle about an old guy
                 putting a bullet through a robber from his .38 revolver.
                 \_ you know what happens every day?  people in America get
                    shot.  Gun violence rate 5 times any other industrialized
                    nation.
                    \_ Can you provide a URL corroborating this?  I'm
                       interested in learning more.  TIA
                    \_ I wonder how the violence rate compares. The regular,
                       all-inclusive violence rate, not just the gun one.
                       http://csua.org/u/4pu
           \_ Everyone shoots fer $#!+. More broken windows and maybe another
              accidental death or two.
        \_ As if you gave enough balanced details to let anyone make a call.
        \_ he would have been stopped at 1 death
2003/10/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10642 Activity:high
10/15   Powell mislead Americans/UN in speech on Iraqi WMDs
        "... I think my conclusion about [Powell's speech] now is that it's
        probably one of the low points in his long distinguished service to
        the nation" -Person responsible for analyzing WMD threat for Powell
        http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/14/60II/main577975.shtml
        \_ Neo-cons: your response, please?
           \_ I had to give up being a neo-con when i realized we were
              being systematically being misled by the neocon cabal.
              Clark in 2004!
              \_ DEAN!!!!!
           \_ I doubt I qualify as a "neocon" but i was not against the war.
              I did not ever believe they had weapons of mass destruction
              Nor did anyone I know.
              I will be glad to "respond", if you link to the Actual
              speech.  It amazes me that someone can put up an article on
              website criticising a speach and not include (links to) even
           \_ Seriously, the only difference between a politician and liar
              portions of the speach in question -phuqm
              \_ how did dubya get a csua account?
        \_ Well hooray for CBS for having the balls to run this.
        \_ "The main problem was that the senior administration officials
           have what I call faith-based intelligence," says Thielmann. "They
           knew what they wanted the intelligence to show. They were really
           blind and deaf to any kind of countervailing information the
              is one is in office. It's really only a matter of who lies
              less, and for what purpose. The ends - no Saddam - justify
              the means.
        \_ Well hooray for CBS for having the balls to run this.
           intelligence community would produce. I would assign some blame
           to the intelligence community and most of the blame to the senior
           administration officials."
2003/10/15-16 [Science/Space, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:10643 Activity:moderate
10/15   The Chinese did NOT succeed at manned flight. Instead, they perfected
        Hollywood studio quality movies that showed realistic looking
        footage of a manned flight. It's like the Apollo program all over
        again. News at 11.
        \_ Cattle mutilations are up!
           \_ so's yer dad
        \_ And what about the USSR photo from their Luna lander series of
           American Apollo mission on the moon? What vested interest would
           a sworn enemy of the U.S. at the time have in helping keep the lie?
                \_ Without the competition, their space program funding
                   would be cut.  Why be in such a rush to go to the moon
                   if not trying to win the space race?
           Go back to your mom's basement and come up with a new one Mulder.
           \_ You have no skills at discerning trolls. You fail.
              \_ ie, troll success!
        \_ http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Space/2003/10/15/226775-ap.html
           Hahaha, conservatives LOSE again.
            \_ "After five years of virtual house arrest and secret
                negotiations between Washington and Beijing, Tsien left for
                his homeland in 1955."
           \_ Facts? Pshaw! Conservatives don't care about losing on the facts,
              they just buy victory anyway.
2003/10/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:10644 Activity:nil
10/15   I propose that we call the motd censorer "Mohammed Rosenberg".
        Obviously he got a fetish on Israeli-Palestinian threads hence the
        name.
        \_ How about Jewdy McPalestine?
        \_ George W. Modammed Mao-Rosenberg
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:15 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>