10/7    This is something I don't understand. We killed millions of Japs and
        Germans during WW2, yet after their defeat we don't have records
        of them trying to slaughter us. However, even though we didn't
        kill many Arabs/Muslims, why do they hate us so much and want
        to slaughter us?
        \_ religion can be a funny thing, no?
        \_ Japs?  Why not use "Gerries" and "towel-heads" too?
        \_ Funny how you exaggerate "millions" - the Russian killed way
           many more Germans. It's very simple, the Arabs/Muslims were once
           a proud people in the lead, now they all live under repessive
           theocracy. This is their latest gasp to regain "power" - absent
           any economic power - is hardly power.

10/7    WOW, all the political posts (e.g. trolls) are cleaned up. THANK
                                      \_ ITYM i.e.
        YOU motd custodian! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!

10/7    Secrets, Lies, and Atomic Spies
        PBS- Nova Special
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/622675/posts

10/6    Damn, my non-election post was deleted. What do people use to wash
        their car windows? I've been told that Windex is really bad.
        BMW Freaks on the Internet recommend all sorts of wacko stuff.
        -!bmw owner
        \_ vinegar and water, dry w/ newspaper (which acts as a polish)
        \_ Porsche window cleaner, but Windex is fine.

10/7    Georgy Russell physically attacked by Ahnold supporters
        http://www.georgyforgov.com/press14.php
        \_ Why the heck was she at Arnold's rally? Not saying she deserved it,
           but just being there was asking for trouble.
           \_ She and some supporters were protesting Ahnold as a "groper."
              The classy way of dealing with this is to have security remove
              the demonstrators, but the brown-shirts of Arnold's Army
              apparently didn't get that memo.
           \_ Yeah, and if she was wearing a short skirt, she was asking to be
              raped, too.
              \_ nice of you to take an extreme. a more appropiate example
                 would be to wear a dodgers jersey at candlestick or pacbell
                 \_ Which is perfectly legal, acceptable, and normal thing to
                    do.  You think people should be beaten up for it?
                    \_ of course not. but there are people out there who look
                       for any excuse to cause trouble. not everyone out there
                       cares what's legal or acceptable or normal, and those
                       are the people georgy should've been wary of.
                       \_ So no one should protest for fear of retaliation?
                          Hmmm. Love that 'murican spirit.
                          \_ ok, point taken. if she's willing to subject
                             herself to that, more power to her.
        \_ Who writes "in her now trademark wit" about herself?

10/7    http://www.newbridgestrategies.com/index.asp
        \_ >_< Blaaaaaaaargh.  How much more obvious can you get?

10/7    The election is today!!!!!
        \_ If you lost your sample ballot, and think your polling place may
           have changed, look it up here: http://smartvoter.org/2003/10/07/ca
           Also, if you changed your registration recently and don't show up
           on their list, you can cast a provisional ballot which will be
           verified by the registrar. --scotsman
           \_ Note that you should make an effort to be in your county when
              using a provisional ballot. Otherwise....

10/7    Why is asking for a good car window cleaning agent worthy of being
        censored? -3rd try
        \_ Because it's all a front for The Man.
        \_ Because it got answered.  Go read the archives.

10/7    [censored]
        \_ [uncensored]
           \_ [recensored for your health]
              \_ Got tired of trying to censor. Going back to bed. -EmC
                 \_ Its the perfect storm of stupidity!

10/7    Angle Grinder Man
        http://www.anglegrinderman.com
        \_ funny. this guy's description of idiotic politics and lousey
           transit in london sounds remarkably like the Bay Area.

10/7    Can I use Bill Pay (Yahoo, Etrade, BofA, WellsFargo, etc) to make
        payments to say, my landlord? Would they just mail a check? Or
        is it not possible?
        \_ yes. i've used bill pay to write a check to a friend, so should be
           entirely possible to write one to a landlord
        \_ sheesh why would you ask here instead of getting the real answer
           straight from these services' sites? gah.
           \_ the motd is the fount of advice. esp. political.
              \_ you confuse advice with editorial.
        \_ I pay my rent via BofA billpay. No problems. If a check gets
           lost they track it down, reissue, etc. Good success so far.
           The only caveat is that BofA takes the money out of your acct
           _when the check is issued_ not when it is cashed. This annoys me,
           but not so much I'd give it up. The whole service is pretty darn
           good.
        \_ banks earns interest, LOTS OF INTEREST in this manner. wonder if
           this is legal.

10/7    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=638&ncid=762&e=1&u=/nm/2
0031007/en_nm/television_bono_dc
        FYE. The word F---ing is allowed on TV.

10/7    To the photo development guy below. Yes, where you develop makes
        a difference, but it is relatively minute compared to the camera
        you use. The difference between a good camera and a bad camera is
        a lot more noticeable than a good/bad development place. My
        suggestion is to get a SLR camera and compare it with a PnS camera
        and you'll see what I mean.
        \_ Oh, I wasn't at all saying that the camera quality isn't
           important.  I agree 100%.  I was simply providing correct
           information about the development and printing process side.
           To get the truly best quality, you need both a good camera and
           Kodak equipment and materials, and knowing how to take pictures
           never hurt either.  :-)
        \_ why are you assuming that I have a crappy PnS? - OP below
        \_ To put this in soda geek's terms, Kodak vs Fuji development
           is like Dell vs Gateway (I am not saying which one is
           better, just as an example). You'd get much better results
           by buying a faster CPU, more memory, faster HD, etc. ie,
           getting a better camera, a decent SLR, a better lens, and
           learn something about photography. All these things will
           make your picture look a lot better than trying to squeeze
           the 1-2% difference between the $15000 Kodak and Fuji
           machines using your $200 digicams.
           \_ what if you have a 5-6mp camera and just want the best
                quality to show off your 5-6mp pictures?
           \_ $15000?  Heh, more like $500,000 for the top end stuff.  Ignore
              me, I'm just moody and twittish today.  ;-)
           \_ what if camera is a 6mp camera?  Which processing service
                appears to be the best?
              \_ you have too much money.
              \_ If you take good enough pictures so that it would matter,
                 you probably already have (should have?) your own photo
                 social circle, either in real life or on some photo site.

10/7    Just voted in oakland, they are using some sort of Windows-based
        e-vote machine and javacard. No paper trail. No auditing. This
        is subject to tinkering.
        \_ of course, paper would never, ever be subject to tinkering.
        \_ Fear not, no one involved is smart enough to tinker with it.
           \_ Hah. You think?
              http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60713,00.html
                \_ Yeah right, like any poll worker is going to ever be able
                   to figure out how to rig it when they can barely figure
                   out how to run it properly.  These aren't rocket scientists
                   running the polling stations.
                \_ MSCAPI & the card middleware are actually surprisingly
                   robust;  I'd put a lot of trust in their inviolability.
                   That's not to say anything about other components of the
                   OS, or the human factor, though.  Also, it isn't
                   necessarily a javacard or even smart card--from the sounds
                   of that article, they could just be using a regular chip
                   storage card (like European payphone cards.)  -John

10/7    Grand Canyon: north rim or south rim?
        \_ "He said rim, heheeehhheehhehehe!!!"
        \_ South Rim is more popular.  I like the South Rim.
           North Rim is harder to get to.  But it is more peaceful.
        \_ Head south instead.  Go to Sedona.
        \_ how much time do you have?  Go to Bryce Canyon as well.
        \_ depends on what you want, and how much time you have.  The
           North Rim is much less crowded, and "wilder", if you're in
           to hiking.

10/7    Wally George, rest in peace.  Thank you for your daughter.
        \_ ObURL                                   ObURL!! _/
           \_ Wally did this really funny faux conservative tv show in the 80s
              where he'd bring on local leftists and 'debate' them.  The
              audience was 150 or so loud young males who screamed "WALLY!
              WALLY! WALLY!" at the top of their lungs.  Every guest session
              ended with him kicking them off the show.  He also brought
              local hookers, strippers, etc, on the show and made a show of
              attacking their moral fiber but always blushed beat red and
              got a big woody when they sat in his lap.

10/7    Remember when you're in the voting booth today: it will be your
        fault afterwards if everything gets more fucked up.  A vote against
        the recall means more of the same.  A vote for Cruz means more of
        the same x10.  A vote for Arnold is a vote for gridlock.  If you
        really want to change the course of CA, then you have to start at
        the top and do it for real.  This goes double for you jobless or
        underemployed people.  The welfare state never created a job for
        anyone.
        \_ so what you're really saying(since Arnie, Davis and Bustamante are
           the only candidates with a chance) is that if you want to change
           anything, you have to vote out the crooks in the legislature
           in the next real election.
           \_ Won't happen.  The ledge in California is just as gerrymandered
              as in any other state.
           \_ Yes.  However, due to the incredibly gerrymandered lines in this
              state, there's no chance of that happening either.
        \_ Yes, please do vote for McClintock. We're counting on it.
            -- Democrat.
           \_ I did and was happy to do so.  The worst that will happen is
              Cruz will fuck up the state for the rest of Davis' term and
              that'll be that.  As a real conservative I have no need for
              faux conservative-lite like Arnold.  If I can't get the real
              thing, it doesn't matter which fraud is in office.

10/7    url for exit polls?
        \_ just about any news site on the net over the next 8.5 hours?
           \_ If its so easy, find a url.
              \_ genius, it takes time to gather data and report it.  this
                 is an election, not an episode of your favorite reality
                 tv show.  it'll happen, just shut up and get back to work.
        \_ exit poll data is not reported until 8pm.
           there was some controversy in a past election.
           but I think you'll see it appearing on the major news sites then.
           \_ much more useful info. Thanks.
              \_ no, that was a national problem caused by the media in FL.
                 useful but inaccurate.  bite me.

10/7    Great WaPo article about retired woman working at Hardee's to pay for
        health insurance:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42036-2003Oct3.html
        \_ How do I get this site to work with links-not-lynx?
        \_ sick.
        \_ She's not retired, she's only 58!
        \_ Let's be real. Her generation is the wealthiest generation ever
           and is more wealthy than ours (I'm 30) will be. They bought houses
           for $15K 30 years ago that are worth $500+K now. They receive
           Social Security and a lot of them had good pensions from work, too.
           I feel bad for this lady, but I don't want to hear any 50 or 60
           somethings bitching about not having money to retire with. I'll
           have to work until I'm 70 for a fraction of her SS (if I'm lucky)
           and no pension, but a 401(k) made mostly of my own money. Boo hoo.
           \_ Seriously, if it was your mom, would you just tell her
              TANSTAAFL and get back to work?
              \_ Seriously, my mom has no retirement and will be fucked
                 when she retires, having only SS. It's all her own damn
                 fault. I may help her if I can, but this is my problem
                 not yours. Feel free to donate money to this total stranger
                 if it makes you feel good. I have my own problems. She's
                 got a job and we've (society) already paid $97000 for her
                 heart surgery. What the hell does she want after all?
                 \_ My mom is in the same boat, btw.
                 \_ Why I am not surprised that sodans don't care about their
                    mothers?
                    \_ We just care about yermom. Cared, last night.
                       \_ Mom's a bit of a slut. Btw she has AIDS.
        \_ Pres. Bush probably ripped her off personally.  But, as stated above,
           there will be ZERO Social Security for our generation.  In fact,
           most likely the Fed will retroactively tax your 401k
           to pay for greedy seniors.

10/7    Censor, restore.  Censor, restore.  Come on, haven't you got anything
        better to do?

10/7    http://csua.org/u/4ml [story.news.yahoo.com]
        FYE. The word F---ing is allowed on TV.
        \_ It's also allowed on csua motd.
        \_ Not the first time this has happened on a national show...
        \_ See NBC's broadcast of the documentary filmmakers following
           around the NYFD on Sept. 11.  All manner of "obscenities"
           \_ And most live major sporting events.
              \_ Nut scratching and male/male ass grabbing is not obscene!
                 I've seen it on TV!

10/6    Went to San Jose today to try to grope Arnold to see if i'd
        get arrested, but couldn't get close enough. He's got some
        serious security dudes

10/6    Non political non computer (so this can't be a troll, right?) question:
        What do people use to wash their car windows? I've read that ammonia
        is really bad for them (I guess that makes sense, I never use Windex
        to wipe my glasses). -new car owner, used to Ride BART
        \_ The best glass cleaner is Porsche glass cleaner. It is similar
           to eyeglass cleaner. You can find an assortment of cleaners at
           any autoparts store, though.
        \_ I use the car wash.  But, sometimes I spit into a paper towel and
           use that.

10/6    Just think: tomorrow, regardless of the outcome, the greatest source
        of stupid trolls in the history of the motd will be at an end.  Praise
        Jesus!
        \_ You say that just months before the 04 election cycle begins.
           \_ Not too worried about that.  Everyone on here knows Bush is
              a twink, except for one freeper that no one listens to anyway.
                    \_ everyone knows?  troll harder.
        \_ ^Jesus^Allah and Mohammed his Prophet^.
        \_ no because then we can do the Dem hanging/pregnant/what chad thing
           and the Dem minorities-are-too-stupid-to-figure-out-how-to-vote-so-
           -we-need-a-do-over thing and the various Dem attempts to recall
           Arnold which will go nowhere and the endless debate of the gridlock
           caused when the legislature refuses to try to work with a (R)
           governor.
           \_ Sigh.  Trolling again.  You don't understand the voting machine
              issue in the slightest, do you?  You don't understand the
              distrinction between saying minorities are too stupid to vote,
              and saying that voting machines that are prone to error
              (regardless of who uses them) are heavily concentrated in
              minority districts?
              \_ Good call.  Pick one thing and ignore the rest.  That always
                 works on the motd.  By the time anyone notices the thread will
                 be too long to read and then erased and you can feel smart.

10/6    Effects of the new car tax: my friend is a java developer living alone
        and making about $55k.  She's not from Berkeley so this is about the
        best she's going to do.  Car tax on her $26k car?  $700.  We need
        prop13 for car owners so middle income people can still afford to
        drive to work.
        \_ 2% of 26k = 520 + a few other bits - shouldn't exceed $600.
           And she didn't have to buy a new car.  Gas runs her 4x as much.
           \_ I saw her bill.  $700 no matter what you *think* it should be.
        \_ just vote for McClintock (or Arnold?)
        \_ What do you mean, "afford to drive to work"? Is she going to stop
           driving and ride bike? If so, that's great. No, she's going to
           suck it up and bend over to the state. Why? Because she makes $55k
           and is buying a $26k car...
           \_ What if I said she makes $80k?  What if I said she makes $120k?
              Would you then say she makes enough that she should just pay and
              STFU and as a rich bitch she already doesn't pay her fair share?
           \_ Solid point.  $26k is too much for your car if you make $55k
              around here.  Can we get some decent home econ classes in the
              damn schools.
              \_ Sorry.  Not in the budget.
           \_ it's people like you who wonder hanging at the end of a rope
              \_ wut
           \_ this man speaks truth
              \_ could you translate it into some form of english, please?
                 \_ it is english, dumbass. non-rich people who can't budget
                    appropriately will always have money trouble, regardless
                    of the car tax.
        \_ She pays $500/mo in car payments, $200/mo in insurance, probably
           $100/mo in gasoline and she complains about $60/mo in taxes?
           Tell her to stop whining.
           \_ 200/month in insurance?  She isn't an 18 year old white male.
              500/month in car payments?  Who ripped you off when you bought
              a car?  It isn't a porsche.  -op
              \_ 26000/48 = 541, 26000/60 = 433 do the math. Most people get
                 4 year car loans. That doesn't even include interest.
                 I just plugged 28 yo single female with a perfect record
                 living in Berkeley into http://gmac123.com and they gave me $195/mo
                 for 100/300 liability and full coverage.
           \_ yeah, let the bitch eat cake!
              \_ How do you think these highways she drives on are financed?
                 Typical middle class Californian, wants all this stuff
                 and wants someone else to pay for it.
                 \_ I hate this royal bitch already. She deserves to die.
                 \_ With her taxes?  We already know the rich and poor don't
                    pay them.
           \_ Only $100 per month on gasoline?!
        \_ One of the most useless things to buy is a brand new car. Just
           buy a good used car and get min insurance. Works for me. Invest
           extra money for the future.
           \_ What will you buy with that money in the future? A new car?
              \_ No, he'll be paying medical bills when he crashes in his
                 old heap.
              \_ With the money I saved from not having a car for 10
                 years, I was able to make a down payment on a house. -ausman
                 \_ I did the same thing, but the point here is that at one
                    extreme you have a lot of money and don't do anything with
                    it. At the other extreme you enjoy life but get into
                    debt. Moderation is the key. After a saved for the house
                    I bought myself a new car, because having a POS for 10
                    years sucks. Useless? Maybe. Makes me happy? Yes. --dim
                 \_ With the money I saved from not having a car for 10 years,
                    I was able to buy a new car AND downpay a house....
                    Though perhaps I'd have been better off without the car.
                    I weigh 20lbs more in 1.5 years.
                 \_ With the increased mobility a car allowed me, I was able
                    to live in a nicer place and commute to much better paying
                    jobs.  I made my down payment in cash, I pay an extra $2k
                    per month on my 15 year loan, and I can get my wife a new
                    car every 3 years with all the extra money I make by
                    having a car all the way through the last 10 years.
                    \_ Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that. Doesn't everyone
                       make their downpayment "in cash"?
                       \_ Nope.  Most people are doing 10% or even 5% and some
                          even get higher interest "negative" percent loans. I
                          did a full 20% down, live further away in a nicer
                          place than the shit holes where the jobs are.  I
                          don't have to tell myself anything.  I see my
                          paycheck, my loan expenses and my wife's new car.
                          And oh yeah, my house has gone up about $150k since
                          I got it and the area is now building up nicely.
                          \_ Personally, I think the outer burbs are horrible.
                             I would rather live in North Oakland. But luckily,
                             we don't all want the same thing. I suspect my
                             house in Noe Valley has gone up about that much.
                          \_ I find the outer burbs unpleasant, not nice,
                             but luckily, we don't all want the same thing.

10/6    I just got a robocall from a leftist org claiming to be a republican
        org telling me to vote no on recall and no on the race measure and
        ragging on Arnold.  The only thing missing was an appeal to vote for
        Cruz.  "I is a raypooblikan and i is so dum i is votan fa Cruz!"

10/6    Just got a cold call of Barbara Boxer's recording.  Damn.  I wish the
        do-not-call list bans political calls as well.

10/6    I love this shit. This is not helping Middle Peace cause.  Further,
        I think North Korean has the right to "defend itself" as well :p
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3169402.stm
        \_ Please restore properly.
        \_ Ho hum, more anti-Israel trolling?  Bored of Arnold?  Ok, here goes:
           NK civilians aren't being attacked in NK cafes a few times a week.
           Troll fed.  Now go away.
           \_ Wasn't much of a troll. It only caught you, and you're under the
              legal limit.

10/6    This is pretty fuckin' awful.
        http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60713,00.html
        \_ You've got no sense of perspective.  That's all bullshit.  *This*
           is what "pretty fuckin' awful" means:
           http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/2530446/detail.html
           \_ you're a self-righteous prick. why don't i one-up you with say,
              the kitty genovese incident? and no one bring up hitler now...
           \_ many things are awful.  see ny'er below.
           \_ makes me ashamed to be a human being.  why would anyone
              do something so horrible?  that's AWFUL.
              \_ you're a pansy. as people exposed to american media, we
                 should all be desensitized to all sorts of violence by now.
                 now excuse me while i go kick a puppy.
                 \_ agree with comment, but not example.  The american media
                    won't even show us the results of what Bush did in Iraq.

10/6    bike troll deleted.

10/6    The fatal grandeur of the Golden Gate Bridge.
        http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?031013fa_fact

10/6    That was fast.  The "Arnie is a rapist" stories are already falling
        apart.  Maybe it's a Vast Pro Arnold Hollywood Conspiracy!  VPAHC!
        \_ Why do you say that?
           \_ You'll see but probably not until after everyone has voted and
              it's too late to help clear his name as per LA Times planning.
        \_ There are still people going around with anti-Nazi signs. I guess
           the lesson here is: dirt works.
        \_ That's it.  This is too much.  I have to vote for Arnie now.

10/6    http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~24781~1676763,00.html
        "Why wasn't Davis investigated, too?"

10/7    Becauase all you of Earth...are idiots!

10/7    noise about minor third party candidate attempting to disrupt
        political event (aka trolling) purged.