Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:06 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2003/10/6 [Computer/Domains] UID:10483 Activity:nil
10/6    Is there a network-slowing virus going around?  I keep getting timeouts
        on DNS lookups and connection attempts.
        \_ Usually.
        \_ It's because stupid ICAAN made Verisign turn off their new service.
           It was helping the Internet and now it's worse off again.
           \_ Now who will help me find http://www.verisignsucksass.com ?!
           \_ How is it worse off?  The net doesn't work the way you seem to
              think it works.  Their stupid 'service' wasn't speeding the net.
2003/10/6 [Uncategorized] UID:10484 Activity:nil
10/6    MAME Jump!
        http://www.powerstrike.net/Tehkan/mamejump.html
2003/10/6 [Reference/Tax] UID:10485 Activity:moderate
10/6    Does anyone else remember back a couple of years when they lowered the
        "car tax" by 2/3s?  And all the statements that this would probably
        have to be revisited in times of a shortfall.  Davis didn't "triple
        the car tax."  He gave relief when we could, and asked us to tighten
        when we couldn't.  How short memories are.
        \_ yep you're right, but that doesn't make a good sound bite
        \_ Yeah, just like "temporary" tax increases.
        \_ I remember. I also remember when sales tax was 3.5%. When does
           it end? --dim
        \_ I remember when the bridge was $1 and BART parking was free and
           it cost $2 to cross the entire length of BART.  I'm not sorry
           that the people finally got some of their money back.
           \_ BART parking is not free?  When did this change?  I think
              it still is free.
              \_ There are free and pay sections of BART parking.
                 \_ The original promise when BART was created was there would
                    never be a charge to park at BART.  Another broken
                    promise.  So now they charge and the lot where I live has
v                   promise.  So now they charge and the lot where I live has
                    1/2 to 1/3 as many cars in it as it did when it was free.
                    they gained a few $1/day parkers at the expense of many
                    more $5/day riders.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.  I didn't
                    have to pay for parking because there's always room in
                    the free lot.  I just walk further now.
           \_ Oh yeah?  Well I remember when we had to walk to school, in
              the snow, uphill both ways!  And we liked it!
              \_ You had legs?  We didn't have legs.
        \_ Yeah, I remember this, too. No good deed goes unpunished.
        \_ i was bitching about the tax relief at the time.  Any tax relief,
           including this stupid car tax, is benefiting the wealthy.  I don't
           pay that much car tax on my $19k CR-V.
           \_ What are YOU complaining about.  I drive a 13.5-year old Civic.
              I still get 30+ mpg, too.
              I still get 30+ mpg, too.
              \_ Buy a new car you loser!  Help the economy!
           \_ Are you a complete idiot?  The registration fee (car tax) is
              regressive, like sales tax, etc.
              \_ Do you mean that it taxes poor people more?  How so?
                 It's definitely not progressive, but that doesn't
                 actually make regressive.
                 \_ Yes, it is.  A poor person buys a $15k car and pays a much
                    higher percentage of their income in tax than a rich
                    person buying a $85k car.  Anyway, this is all backwards.
                    Tax reduction don't benefit anyone.  The original tax was
                    designed to punish the wealthy in the first place and
                    getting rid of it just restores fairness.  Being rich
                    isn't a crime... yet.
                    \_ Fair is subjective. Those who benefit the most from
                       society bear the greatest interest in supporting it
                       via their taxes. That'd be fair. Rich fucks
                       complaining about taxes make me sick. Like they
                       would be junkies if the marginal tax rate was 70%
                       like it was before. Wow, you mean they might WORK
                       LESS? After making 40 million? Wow, what a fucking
                       bad thing it would be for them to spend time with
                       their kids or working with their community.
                       \_ Or producing jobs and growing the economy.  Yeah,
                             \_ Less tax on profits stimulate jobs...  Really?
                                Someone better call the economy and tell it
                                it's been stimulated.
                                \_ Indeed.  Say I'm a business owner.  Suddenly
                                   I'm making more profit on the same workforce
                                   and my production isn't slacking.  I'm going
                                   to hire more workers... why?
                          that would suck!  Tax the rich til they aint rich
                          no more!  The poor already get more in services than
                             \_ Or they simply leave the state.
                          they could possibly afford to pay the real price of.
                          Police, fire, emergency medical, 911, paved roads,
                          garbage collected, electrical and phone and housing
                          at rates *well* below market value, etc.  This is
                          the 5 second short list off the top of my head.  If
                          you're poor and not taking advantage of the free
                          education offered in this country to improve your
                          lot in life then I have absolutely no sympathy for
                          you.  I'm neither rich nor poor.  I work 40-70 hours
                          a week based on company need and it sucks and I don't
                          whine about how the gub'ment *owes* me anything or
                          that I'm *entitled* to anything.  When the hell did
                          we start refering to welfare and other social(ist)
                          programs as "entitlements" anyway?  What makes
                          anyone *entitled* to the money I've *earned* and
                          *worked hard* for?  Fuck, now I'm pissed.  I'm going
                          to vote recall now.
                          \_ Are you trying to say poor people aren't
                             entitled to emergency services? Wow. Yeah let
                             those poor people's house burn down, they
                             didn't pay enough taxes. What the fuck is
                             wrong with you? It's all about you!
                             \_ Good way to ignore everything I said and focus
                                on one tiny thing mentioned along the way.  I
                    isn't a crime... yet.
                                see no reason to go into further detail for
                                someone that's intentionally blind.
                          \_ Which states have the lowest taxes? Mississippi
                             and Alabama. Would you like California to be
                             like them?
2003/10/6-8 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:10486 Activity:high
10/5    Arnold's Enron Secret
        http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16902
        \_ That guy sounded compelling except a) no references and b) the
           "Hitlerian mustache" comment at the end.
           \_ and umm, isn't the state budget deficit more like 36 billion?
              \_ Thanks to cuts, cuts, cuts, and the car tax, we're passing
                 $8 billion to next year.
                 \_ I believe there were something like $11B in loans to get
                    through the year.  That's going to hurt, especially with
                    the piss-poor bond rating CA has now.
                 \_ The courts over turned the loans as illegal.  No loans to
                    carry over into next year.  The budget is busted.  Now
                    they *must* raise taxes or cut all the stuff they added in
                    last 5 years.  If we have 1994 levels of income we should
                    roll back spending to the same level.  End of story.
                    \_ They're doing this in Alabama.  Its great!  High school
                       kids are paying textbook fees and they've fired half
                       the bailiffs in the state, among many other instances
                       of "fraud and abuse" ferreted out.
                       \_ Kids here already didn't have books.  They need to
                          break the teacher's union so the money being dumped
                          into education will actually get to the kids.
                          \_ GAH!  More like they need to break the text
                             book oligarchy's stranglehold and move to
                             free Internet-published text books.  Need
                             chapter 7? Print it out on recyclyed paper.
                             \_ Yeah, we all know how accurate the information
                                on the Internet is.
                                \_ You'd be surprised at how bad some
                                   textbooks are.
                                \_ If the state can dictate curriculum, why
                                   can't it write and publish online text-
                                   books?
                             \_ Do both.  I had forgotten about the textbook
                                industry's crimes.  Bust the teacher's union
                                and the textbook industry as well.  Works for
                                me.  --guy you replied to about unions
                    \_ Just raise property tax to levels similar to other
                       states.
                       \_ Then the only people left in the state would be the
                          rich you hate so much and the illegals tending their
                          gardens and raising their children.  The only way to
                          pay property tax on a home that's gone up in price
                          in a state where income increases don't match
                          housing value increases is to sell your home and
                          leave the state.  That's why we had prop 13 in the
                          first place.  I'm trying not to be overly rude here
                          but other states don't have our whacked out property
                          value rate of increase vs. income rate increase #s.
                          \_ That income and property values are so out of
                             whack is indication that something is wrong with
                             the property values.  Don't worry, lots of people
                             would move in from out of state to take over once
                             the property values go down.  Stupid Californians
                             fucked up their state.  They don't deserve to run
                             it anymore.  Get the heck out.
                             \_ More people are already moving in, right now.
                                That's what makes property values so high.  It
                                isn't something you can legislate away and any
                                _public_ official who tried to destroy property
                                values would be hung in public and rightly so.
                                \_ Actually there is a net outflow of people
                                   to other states.
                                   \_ But total increase in population due to
                                      immigration.
                                \_ Property values held up well in all the
                                   US metropolitan areas even though they have
                                   higher property taxes.  Seems like there
                                   is a lot of worry about property values in
                                   California.  Smells like a bubble to me.
                                   It's going to be pricked one way or another.
                                   Crappy economy, high crimes, lousy
                                   educational system, lack of business
                                   investments, high income people from other
                                   states not moving to California because
                                   of expensive houses, and high income taxes,
                                   etc., bankrupt state government.  None of
                                   the above will help with property values
                                   \_ So many times people have predicted this
                                      for the very same reasons, since at least
                                      the early 60s. So many times they have
                                      been wrong.
                       \_ If that happened probably 1/2 the state would have to
                          sell their houses tomorrow and go back to renting..
                          property values would plummet plummet, markets would
                          crumble crumble... sorry, Hudson Hawk moment.  But
                          it's true.
                          \_ Raise property tax while reducing income tax.
                             Burst the housing bubble.  This will attract
                             lots of high income people from out of state to
                             come to the state, and attract business
                             investments too.
                             \_ Reduce income tax?  How exactly is that going
                                to help all the old people living in their
                                home for the last 40 years which is now worth
                                so much on paper that their social security
                                can't cover even a small part of the tax
                                without prop13 laws to protect them?  You
                                either weren't here when prop13 was passed,
                                you're too young to remember, or you're a mean
                                vicious person who wants to destroy people's
                                lives.  I prefer to think you're just young.
                                It makes me feel better to think the least
                                worst thing about you.
                                \_ Arnold and Buffett are going to repeal
                                   prop 13.
                                \_ Heard of home equity loan?  What about
                                   old people who rent, or who live with
           reason I will not vote for him.  there's just too many others.
                                   their relatives and are still working
                                   to make ends meet?  Or old people who
                                   depend on their children (who pay
                                   income taxes) for support?
        \_ I heard about it last week.  Sounds credible but that's not the
           reason I will not vote for him.  there are just too many others.
           The main reason is that he's clueless based on what he said
           he will do.  For example, he wanted to open the book and audit
           everything. That sounds good to uninfomed Californians, but CA
           already has independent auditors to do that (according to SF
           Chronicle) and the state budget is online for anyone view it
           Second example, he wants to repeal the VLF.  (It's nice for me,
           since I drive an expensive car.)  The problem is he couldn't
           explain how he'll get the $4B to replace the VLF.  Repealling the
                    \_ they should roll back to 1994 population, housing
                       prices, gas prices, etc.
           sources of revenue to fill it.
              Arnie will provide.
           VLF is devasting to the local governments if he can't find other
           sources of revenue to fill it.
           \_ Don't worry your pretty lil head about such complex things.
              Arnie will provide.
              \_ You misspelled "hooters."
           \_ If you're truly concerned about the economy, you should be
              voting for Tom.
        \_ Guess how much of California's energy Enron supplied during the
           summer of 2001 - less than 4 %.
           \_ I don't see how that makes them any less sleazy, or how it
              changes Arnold's intent in participating.
                 \_ There was no fraud accusations against Enron until the fall,
                    the company was solvent.  Gray Davis had many of these
                    these meetings with Enron, as he should have, Enron was
                    the largest energy company in the nation.  Davis has yet
                    to return 100's thousands from Enron.
           \_ I'm sure there's a lot more to the story than this. There were
              several suppliers taking advantage of the badly-deregulated
              system to gouge us.
2003/10/6 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:10487 Activity:nil
10/6    'Currently, more than 25 percent of our federal prison
        inmates are illegal aliens who committed crimes. '
        Excessive immigration is sinking Golden State
        http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/opinion/6937903.htm
        \_ if you really want, erect a wall between United States and Mexico.
           If Chinese can do it 2000 years ago, you can too.  By the time you
           erected the wall, you then will discover that certain part of US
           economy is actually *DEPEND* upon illegal aliens(read: agriculture)
           Instead of bitching about illegal aliens, may be you can use your
           limited brain power try to resolve this economic dependency,
           Unless we resolve this issue, not even a wall will resolve the
           illegal alien problem.
2003/10/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:10488 Activity:high
10/6    George HW Bush went to Japan and threw up all over the Japanese PM
        and lost the election.  In order to complete the circle on George
        junior, I think he should travel abroad and throw up over another
        head of state.  Who do you want Dubya to throw up on (feel free to
        add more):
        The Pope:
        Ariel Sharon: .
        Tony Blair:
        Jacques Chirac:
        Hamid Karzai: .
        Putin: .
        Ahmed Chalabi: .
        Yassir Arafat: .
        All of the above: .
          \_ Holy Puking Presidents, Batman!
        \_ any links that talks about this?
        \_ I doubt that's why he lost the election, you can thank Ross for that
           but it's an amusing premise.  My vote is for the Queen of England.
           If you're going to throw up on someone, you should really go for it.
        Queen Elisabeth: .
        Druk Gyalpo Jigme Singye Wangchuck: ...................................
        .......................................................................
        .......................................................................
        ............................
                \_ Why should anyone care of Bush vomits on the King of Bhutan?
                   \_ I think the poster was trying to win obscure reference
                      of the week award.
        \_ I think it should just be the current Japan PM, Junichiro Koizumi.
2003/10/6 [Consumer/Camera, Computer/HW] UID:10489 Activity:nil
10/7    photography people, what online gallery (other than your own machines
        do you use (if any) to display your work samples?
        \_ http://onedollarhost.net
           \_ http://onedollarhost.net/SERVICES.ASP
                The page cannot be found. er, uh...
            \_ works for me, though I clicked on services and got this page:
               http://www.onedollarhost.net/solutions.asp
               the site went down 2-3 times in one year. usually for less
               than a day. I guess you get what you pay for.
        \_ http://pbase.com
2003/10/6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/Rants] UID:10490 Activity:nil
10/6    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/33217.html
        http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/32038.html
        is this a good prediction, or a self fulfilling prophecy.  Are computer
        jobs going to go the same way as weaving/sewing/clothing jobs?
        \_ No.  I read an interesting take on it recently (Economist?) which
           said that manufacturing jobs were going due to efficiency as much
           as corporate migration, and that with high efficiency, time-to-
           market and responsiveness to local needs outweighed the minor
           resulting cost gains from moving manufacturing offshore.  I see
           the same happening with IT, regardless of what people tell me about
           Indian call center workers with perfect Texan accents.  I've seen
           too many offshore moves by development and support teams (don't even
           start on business IT consulting) to have any faith that it'll make
           a really serious impact in the long run.  On the other hand, there's
           historically been a trend for 'simpler' work (witness mining,
           steel, shipbuilding, electronics) to move from 'core' to 'periphery'
           countries, without really affecting prosperity in the developed
           world.  -John
        \_ Why would they not? There was an article that mentioned silicon
           valley will recover by 2010, but the trend to offshore jobs will
           continue. There will always be cutting-edge jobs here, but the
           easier jobs will go overseas. One thing they haven't taken into
           account is the transfer of intellectual property to these countries,
           and the new competition that will result.
        \_ Dontcha just love globalization?
        \_ Not until software is truly a commodity and bug free.  You'll see a
           swing back from foreign countries for core work that must be done
           right because quite frankly they aren't skilled enough to do that
           overseas.
           \_ Not to mention the communcation issues (language, culture  and
              time difference) which make requirements/specifications difficult
              to iron out.
              \_ Yep.  I've seen a three year, $50 million project from India
                 produce nothing but bills.  And oh yeah, some folks got fired.
                 That was the only good to come from it.
                 \_ I ve seen a dilbert about this recently.
2003/10/6-7 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:10491 Activity:nil
10/6    Hey spamassassin folks.  I know how to use blacklist_from to block
        a specific from line or group of from lines, but how do I block
        everything coming from a specific mail server - something in the
        Received: line.  I am pretty constantly deluged from spam clever
        enough to get around SA originating from mail servers at http://j-connect.com.
        \_ use procmail directly. man procmailrc or procmailex.
        \_ :0:
           *^ Received:*.j-connect.*
           /dev/null
           \_ Thank you!
              \_ This might not work, you will have to test it. Learn how
                 regexs work if you can, they come in handy.
2003/10/6 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:10492 Activity:nil
10/6    This weekend, I got a bunch of prerecorded phone calls asking me to vote
        for a specific candidate.  Thanks Arnold, Davis, and Bustamante.  That's
        just what I wanted.
        \_ you can thank the Do-Not-Call list for that.
           \_ nonsense.  They were able to do that before the list.  Also, it
              walks a fine 1st amendment line to stifle political expression
              by not letting them call you.  You wouldn't have a list at all
              if no one was allowed to call you at all.  Government is about
              compromise.
              \_ No it doesn't.  It's not 1st amendment once it hits my phone.
                 It's property rights.  If they want to talk to me, they can
                 knock on my door.
                 \_ THANK YOU!  Does anyone have any info on when 1st Amend.
                    started covering a) advertizing, and b) phone calls?
                 \_ Yup. First amendment means you may say what you have to say.
                    it does not mean you can force people to listen.
                 \_ Are they breaking the law by knocking on your door? It is
                    your property...
                    \_ i think i remember that some local "mormon ban" laws
                       have been ruled to be constitutional. personally, i
                       enjoy telling them to fuck off.  particularly since
                       unlike the telemarketer who's just trying to feed their
                       family by doing a shit job, the door to door
                       religeous nut is some self-righteous asshole who's
                       decided to harass me in their spare time for free(
                       after giving a large portion of their income away
                       to the religion.)
                    \_ Unfortunately, no, they're not and your phone is no
                       different.
2003/10/6 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10493 Activity:moderate
10/6    This is a serious troll. Who thinks Israel's action is a little
        out of line? Maybe Cuba ought to fire a missile at Florida for
        there's a lot of anti-cuban people there.
        \_ No one in Florida is sending suicide bombers to Cuban cafes the
           last I checked.  If you're going to troll, you need to start
           with a better premise.  I salute your efforts, Young Troll, but
           ready for trolling, you are not.
           \_ Well, actually:
              http://www.nscuba.org/Docs/Terrorism/TerrorActs-1.html
           \_ And...there's been little more than "cause we said so" to
              indicate the camp was active or that Syria has been responsible
              for anything other than happening to be there.
        \_ Well...it's Florida...how about Mississippi?  It's almost as
           close.  Or Alabama.
           \_ "We'll try to stay cool and calm
               when Alabama gets the bomb!"
        \_ "Israel must not feel constrained in terms of defending the
           homeland."  -GWB There Bush formally said it. Israel has a green
           light to do whatever it feels like and not feel bound by
           the Geneva Convention, International Law, or any other
           pesky constraints. Watch them nuke Damascus next.
        \_ How is this different from what they have been doing in the past?
           Israel has bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor into oblivion, invaded
           Lebanon, raided PLO's headquarters in Libya. What you see is a normal
           state of affairs in the middle east..
2003/10/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Recreation/Media] UID:10494 Activity:high
10/6    What did he whisper in her ear in "Lost in Translation" ?
        Anybody?  Anybody?
        \_ does anybody think that the representation of japanese
           people in this film is kinda f'ed up? I mean, I feel
           like she was just trying to show how the characters were
           alienated by being in a foreign culture or whatever, but
           there definitely were quite a few laughs just based on
           "those wacky japanese".
           \_ it's the experience of the novice traveller in Japan.
              trust me, you'll spend a lot of time thinking, "wow,
              those wacky japanese."  The movie also had a good deal
              of beauty (the wedding procession in Kyoto, for example).
              For more on the wacky, imcomprehensible nature of Japan,
              check out "Max Danger: Adventures of an Expat in Tokyo"
              by Robert J. Collins.
        \_ http://imdb.com/NewsFeatures/lostintrans.html
        \_ Sorry, it was lost in translation.  HAH!  Damn, I'm good.
        \_ I think the point is that you're not supposed to know.  That
           said, I'm guessing it's something along the lines of "become
           yourself" or other sentimental "bye-bye" pap....  Great movie,
           though.
        \_ Why don't you download it and run the enhance the audio
           track so that you can listen to it. In all likelyhood he
           said nothing of relavance to the movie. Why say something,
           when you can say nothing and get the same reaction out of
           the audience
           \_ well, now I'm more interested in seeing this movie.  So if
              it gets people talking...
        \_ He says, "For you".
        \_ Do you understand about modern lit. crit. and self-referentiality?
          \_ "Nan nen nihon ni irun desu ka?"   That was the funniest scene
             in the movie.  For those who don't know Japanese, the old
             woman at the medical clinic was slowly asking him how many
             years he was in Japan.
             \_ the best part is the two middle-aged ladies in the row
                of seats behind them trying, very politely, not to bust up.
2003/10/6-8 [Consumer/Camera] UID:10495 Activity:moderate
10/6    Photo people: What's the best developing service?  In terms
        of quality?  Price?  Value?  Digital pictures.
        \_ How do you "develop" a digital picture?
           \_ you know what I mean.  What's the proper word then?
              \_ "process"
        \_ developing what? film? digital? portraits?
           \_ sorry.  Digital Pictures.  I modified the original post.
        \_ You want online or offline?
        \_ I use costco. $0.19 per print at 4x6. picture quality
           is excellent at the Sunnyvale store. It does show some sharpening
           artifects, but i think all digital printing service do. they
           uses Fuji machines and print on Fuji Crystal Archive paper, the
           same machine that prints the 35mm photos.
           \_ do they do contrast and brightness adjustments?
              \_ no. why do you need them to do it? I'd do it myself if it
                 needs any adjustments. They crop the center by default to
                 make your image fit on 4x6. on some images you may want to
                 crop it yourself. they take CD, compactflash, etc...
                 \_ Good advice. I heard similar advice in some photo mags
        \_ I use costco. $0.19 per print at 4x6. picture quality
           is excellent at the Sunnyvale store. It does show some sharpening
           artifects, but i think all digital printing service do. they
                    about adjusting the photo yourself, so that a machine
                    doesn't adjust your image incorrectly (e.g., make your
                    snow look gray) or crop out the face of your loved one.
                    You can take control of how your photo's turn out by
                    using photoshop (elements, 7.0, or similar) and a little
                    knowledge on how to best do this.
           \_ Nah, that's just the Fuji machines they're using.  Go some place
           uses Fuji machines and print on Fuji Crystal Archive paper, the
           same machine that prints the 35mm photos.
           \_ do they do contrast and brightness adjustments?
           \_ Nah, that's just the Fuji machines they're using.  Go some place
              that uses Kodak.  Don't settle for less than the best.  It isn't
              becuase you're digital.
              that uses Kodak.  Don't settle for less than the best.  It isn't
              becuase you're digital.
              \_ nonsense. Costco also has Kodak machines for their 35mm
                 development. I use it regularily. The fuji-digital prints
                 are excellent quality compare to the 35mm Kodak processing.
                 If anything, the differences are film/digital rather than
                 the printing machine. The 35mm prints looks 'better' because
                 I have better photo gears, but the printing quality is more
           \_ either.
        \_ I use costco. $0.19 per print at 4x6. picture quality
           is excellent at the Sunnyvale store. It does show some sharpening
           artifects, but i think all digital printing service do. they
           uses Fuji machines and print on Fuji Crystal Archive paper, the
           same machine that prints the 35mm photos.
           \_ do they do contrast and brightness adjustments?
           \_ Nah, that's just the Fuji machines they're using.  Go some place
              that uses Kodak.  Don't settle for less than the best.  It isn't
              becuase you're digital.
        \_ http://Ofoto.com's got the best quality.
           \_ nonsense.  they use the same fuji crap that costco uses.  if
              you want Kodak quality you need to go to a place that uses
              Kodak equipment, paper, etc.  That isn't Ofoto.
              \_ either you or ofoto are mistaken, becasue they claim that
                 a) they're a "kodak company" and b) they print on kodak
                 paper, at least. -chialea
                 or less the same.
        \_ http://Ofoto.com's got the best quality.
           \_ nonsense.  they use the same fuji crap that costco uses.  if
              you want Kodak quality you need to go to a place that uses
              Kodak equipment, paper, etc.  That isn't Ofoto.
              \_ either you or ofoto are mistaken, becasue they claim that
                 a) they're a "kodak company" and b) they print on kodak
                 paper, at least. -chialea
                 \_ They don't claim to use Kodak printers, scanners,
                    development equipment, processes, chemicals or anything
                    else.  Know why?  Because they don't.  The paper is the
                    least important part of it.  They imply the rest but
                    won't and can't say it because it isn't true.  Call them
                    up and ask what model equipment they use and who makes it.
                    It's Fuji.
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:06 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>