Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:04 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
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2003/10/4-5 [Uncategorized] UID:10460 Activity:nil 50%like:11536
10/3    Roy mauled by Tiger (Siegfried and Roy):
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/10/03/state0030EDT0231.DTL
        \_ finally, some small measure of justice for the animals.
           \_ how mean.
              \_ mean?  you're talking about what they do to the animals,
                 right?  taking wild creatures that belong far far away from
                 people and making them dance around on stage for the
                 audience's delight every night and then into a tiny cage
                 until the next show until they're too old to move and die?
                 *that* is mean.  getting your throat ripped out by such a
                 creature is the risk he chose.  the tiger ripping out his
                 throat is simple natural justice.  i'll bet you think its
                 cool to see the animals at ringling brother's, too, huh?
2003/10/4-5 [Health] UID:10461 Activity:nil
10/3    So I'm a big time radio personality making $500 million on my current
        contract and I buy drugs from my maid instead of doctor shopping until
        I get the one that will prescribe what I want?  My idiotic white trash
        mother in law manages to get all the drugs she can stand (or pass out
        on) through doctors, I think Rush could, too.
        \_ A. You don't know the facts of the case. So you have no idea
           on what is going on.
           B. It's obvious you are white trash.
           \_ BWAHAHHAHAHA!!!  If you brought hitler into this you'd have a
              perfecta!!  I read the stuff on the smoking gun which is more
              than you have.  I love (B).  That just fucking kills me.  I'm
              totally fucking rolling!  Thanks for making my day.  You rock!
2003/10/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10462 Activity:nil
10/3    Conservatives: read your hero's speech:
        http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031003-4.html
        Can you honestly respect that? He talks as if his audience is a bunch
        of children. The guy is just bizarre.
        \_ I agree that his public speaking is insultingly stupid. Just
           remember: Bush is inarticulate, but he is not stupid -- he
           deliberately plays to the dumber segment of the public's desire
           not to feel inadequate. Welcome to anti-intellectualism in
           today's America.
           \_ you think he's smart enough to have a strategy like that?
              i think that appearances aren't deceiving in this case. it's
              easier for him to just act like himself than act like a smart
              person playing dumb, even if the net effect is about the same.
           \_ I don't believe he is capable of actually being intellectual,
              at least he's never demonstrated any high-level abilities. But
              he does have a kind of instinctive cunning, and people skills.
        \_ I'm not sure he can really help it. How does a child talk to other
           children? Anyway, I think he's more stupid than bizarre.
        \_ "There is no air raids on Air Force One"  this guy went to fucking
           Harvard?  Sheeet.
           \_ No, he went to Yale, get it right.  Harvard >>> Yale.  For many
              reasons.
              \_ and harvard.  for MBA at least.  note that Dean, Kerry,
                 and Liebermann also went to Yale.
                 \_ But they're all leftist heros so that's good!
                  \_ Dean and Kerry going to Yale doesn't invalidate the
                     fact that Harvard >>> Yale.  And who the fuck cares
                     about Liebermann anyway?
                     \_ Yeah, he's just some Jew, right?  Albeit, a Jew with
                        about the same poll numbers as Dean and twice Kerry,
                        but a Jew just the same.
        \_ He has politically outmaneuvered the Dems and other detractors
           repeatedly.
           If he wasn't so effective you would not be having such a hissy
           fit.  He's ethical (for a politician), has a vision and principles.
           He understands he's not an intellectual.  He has
           leadership qualities, is not an egomaniac like Clinton / Gore,
           and is comfotable enough to delegate to people more capable to
           him.  His foreign policy has been impecabble, too bad he's
           such a lib demestically.  We have had massive increases in
           government spending - isn't this what you want???  You libs should
           be full of glee with the increases in gov't.
           \_ Unfortunately, this is too true.  His domestic policy sucks.  His
              very first act was to raise *every* budget in the entire federal
              government by 4%, minimum.  Some went higher.  We should be
              slashing stupid wasteful governmeny budgets, not fluffing them
              more.  And his open border policy is sheer insanity.  I voted
              for him as a lesser-devil issue.  When soccer moms start getting
              killed on the highways by illegals with valid driver's licenses
              then maybe they'll clue in.
           \_ why do you like him then? also it's more than not being intellec-
              tual. It's like he has trouble speaking and keeping basic trains
              of thought.
                \_ you need to be both incredibly naive and/or incredibly
                  selfish to consider bush' entire gamut of foreign policy
                  decisions as anything but knee-jerk, near-sited and
                  destructive. as for his domestic policy, there isn't any
                  money to even really talk about increased government.
                  unless of course you mean national security and the
                  military.  you should hang out by union square in nyc
                  sometime and watch the national debt grow.
                  \_ he's already increased federal government.  how much
                     bigger should it get?  you want socialism or communism?
                     i'll bet you're a socialist but you're also opposed to
                     all the Big Brother stuff that comes with a big gov'nt.
                     \_ Right, because we all know that people can be easily
                        classified in a mere handful of big economic theories.
                        Grow up and realize that it's possible to want huge
                        sweeping competent and efficient government programs
                        _and_ decent privacy rights/civil liberties.
                        \_ Huge, sweeping, competent, efficient, non-Big
                           Brother government?  You can want that, sure.  I can
                           want to win the powerball super lottery every month
                           also.  Our wants have nothing to do with the way the
                           world really is, but I do admire your lust for
                           paradox.  Big, efficient, competent government.  I'm
                           guessing you're in school and never had a job at a
                           place with more than 2 dozen people.
                        \_ Oh yeah?  Give an example of an efficient govt.
                           program.  (IRS doesn't count)
                           \_ http://www.nist.gov
                              i know several people who work at NIST and
                              i think the taxpayer definitely gets his/her
                              money's worth there.
                              btw, i didn't read the rest of the thread, just
                              saw your question and answered it.
                              \_ You think NIST is big?  It's a penny ante
                                 dinky little half baked government funded
                                 hangout for nerds with slide rules.  I'm
                                 glad to hear they're really efficient nerds.
2003/10/4-5 [Uncategorized] UID:10463 Activity:nil
10/3    For the truely lazy geeks:  http://daimaoh.kir.jp/ho/menssom.htm
        \_ Truly lazy geeks don't read random links from japan that don't
           include a reason why we should read them.
2003/10/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/Canada] UID:10464 Activity:nil
10/3    Greasy Canadians exempt from border controls:
        http://csua.org/u/4m6
        \_ i know a canadian who got banned from crossing the border for
           being a dick to the border guards. yes, he's a dumbass.
        \_ Only the greasy ones?  Is there a standard for greasiness?  Maybe
           we should set up a government commission to study the issue?
2003/10/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10465 Activity:low
10/3    bios-ain't-done-till-linux-won't-run
        http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39116902,00.htm
        \_ Time to adopt OpenBIOS
        \_ time for osX
        \_ what was the line from starwars:  "The tighter they grasp,
           the more of them will slip through their fingers.." ?
           \_ Welcome to reality.  That was a movie, this is life.
                \_ Get over it.  Compaq SmartStart bios for Proliant servers
                   has been WinNT-based forever now.  If that's not enough,
                   for once I'd suggest a big 'hooray' for the ChiCom
                   electronics industry as a balancing factor.  Combine
                   (http://tinyurl.com/ppo7 - propaganda) with Red Flag Linux
                   and you may realize that 1 billion screaming Chinese aren't
                   going to be voluntarily shoehorned into having their pirate
                   DVD PC game stations running Windows 2010.  -John
                   [formatd was here even though John should be able to self-f]
                        \_ John apologizes, John was on way-too-wide xterm.
                           John promises introspection and betterment in
                           future.  Please forgive John.  And apparently URL
                           is dead too--was meant to refer to Dragon CPU.
                           future.  Please forgive John.
                   \_ fuck you, John. Number of Communist Party member in
                      China is roughly around 100k.  Consider we got
                      1.3+ billion people, it is so fucking unfair to label
                      us that way.  Years of Berkeley, you haven't learn
                      how to seperate regime and the nation and its people.
                      you white imperalist.  Yes, you are.  Based upon
                      your logic, you are responsible for Iraq and Afghan,
                      especially consider the regime is elected by people
                        \_ Pardon me, but what the fuck are you talking about?
                           Dragon CPU development is Chinese government
                           sponsored, and the domestic electronics industry
                           there is "strongly motivated" by various govt. trade
                           bodies to compete with US commercial entities.  Red
                           Flag Linux is openly sponsored by the Chinese
                           post office and other (government) organizations.
                           Chinese government is, well, communist, or at least
                           they say so.  But if that pisses you off, I strongly
                           apologize and take back my assertion that the
                           Chinese (1 billion of them, and please _do_ point out
                           where I said they're all commies) are smart enough
                           to use technical alternatives to what M$ wants them
                           to buy.  And I should add that after years of
                           Berkeley, I have a very solid understanding of
                           politics, sociology and economics, and in contrast
                           to you, a GRASP OF HOW TO WRITE A PROPER ENGLISH
                           SENTENCE, YOU BLITHERING FUCKWIT.  Eat a turd and
                           wither, ChiCom troll.  -John
                           \_ um, I think you've been trolled, John.
                              No one on the motd really writes English as
                              badly as the above poster claims to.
                                \_ law of averages.  Idiots do exist.
                      like you
                      \_ yeah and uhm yeah so take that and that and that and
                         you're a big bad white cracker racist and china isnt
                         communist and john is evil whitey imperialist racist
                         and cant format and has big bad whitey xterm format
                         problem in afghan and iraq and Hey, did anyone see
                           future.  Please forgive John.
                         my bag?  I think I left it on the boat!
2003/10/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:10466 Activity:nil
10/3    Does anyone have a good link to a discussion of the pros & cons
        of giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants?  I didn't hear
        about it until a couple of days ago, and it seems rather far-
        fetched, but someone must have presented some good reason or
        it wouldn't have happened, right?
        \_ RANT! GROWL! MESSICANS! GRRR!!!!! DAVIS!!!!! ARNOLD!!!!
        \_ pro: they're driving anyway and we need slave labor
           \_ That's it?!?!?  If they're too broke to pay for insurance,
              what's the point of giving the license that will let them
              get insurance?  And if they *do* get driver's licenses,
              what prevents the INS from tracking them and deporting
              them if they are illegal immigrants?
              \_ The INS?  Nothing.  You forgot about the importance of
                 slave labor.
              \_ the INS bit is easy, you don't let the INS use the DL
                 database.  Other pros: if you make laws so that people
                 stopped without a DL get checked in the INS system and
                 deported, while poeple with DLs just get a speeding
                 ticket, suddenly there are going to be a lot less
                 unliscensed, uninsured drivers out there.
                 \_ Like that would happen.  They already don't deport illegals
                    who have "established connections to the community".  They
                    just let em walk.  Almost no one gets deported.  There's
                    never been a serious effort to stop the influx or kick out
                    those who are found when anyone bothers looking.  This is
                    a load of bullshit.
           con: they shouldn't even be here, they're going to use it to vote,
                it can be used to elevate an illegal to the same level of
                concern in the government's eyes as tax paying citizens.
                \_ DL alone is not a valid enough id to register to vote.
                   \_ Motor Voter!  Howdy!  That's all it takes.  Fact.  I'm
                      a citizen voting every election for 15+ years and I've
                      never showed anyone any real proof of anything to vote.
        \_ Anything which adds drivers to the road is bad.  I don't care
           who they are.  More drivers means more idiots on the roads
           and more pollution.  We should raise the driving age to 18 to
           balance things out.
           \_ Under 18 drivers aren't a significant percentage of drivers out
              there. Furthermore, even if we increase age limit to 18, they're
              still going to be inexperienced drivers on the road. Yeah, they
              will be more mature, but still not confident on the road.
              \_ let's change the minimum driving age to 80, video tape it,
                 sell the tapes, and use the revenue to pay for good public
                 transit in california.  this will also save money on health
                 care for the elderly.
                 \_ public transit can never entirely replace private transit.
                    it cant *never* be that flexible due to it's very nature.
                    \_ try visiting tokyo sometime.
                       \_ the rest of the world isn't built like tokyo.  try
                          visiting *any* large American city.  Actually, try
                          visiting just small city, town, village, or farm in
                          the US.  Hint: this is a bigger place than tokyo and
                Not really.  Ever seen Tokyo?  -John _/
                          frankly who the hell wants to live like the japanese
                          do?  I'm a man, not a sardine.
                          \_ what's really amazing is that i got three serious
                             replies from my "let the elderly kill eachother
                             on the roads" troll.
                             \_ not really.  that part was ignored but you
                                can give yourself a few troll points if you
                                like.  its not like anyone keeps track or
                                cares.
2003/10/4-5 [Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:10467 Activity:nil
10/3    I'm a linux person, and my work is requiring me to learn Solaris,
        which I have very little experience with.  Any good books that
        you guys can recommend or courses offered in Bay Area?  I need
        to learn Solaris 2.6 and 9, with emphasis on 9.  Thanks.
        \_ planning skills are easily transferable.  hardware references can
           be found online.  I'd suggest picking up O'Reilly Essential System
           Administration.  Lots of translation tables between "the Linux Way",
           "The Solaris Way", and so on.. BSD's, AIX, HP even.  It's all the
           same beast.  Also, there's plenty of solaris fu on wall.  throw out
           a question sometime.
        \_ They're all the same for the most part.  Are you just being a low
           level admin or they want you to run a veritas clustered database
           on multiple E10Ks?
2003/10/4-5 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:10468 Activity:kinda low
10/4    Interesting research regarding world petroleum supplies
        http://news.independent.co.uk/world/environment/story.jsp?story=449053
        Whoever comes up with the best viable alternative to fossil fuels
        is going to be a gazillionaire, though I'm really curious (and a little
        wary) of what the "end of oil" might do to capitalism in general.
        \_ I'll read your link later but you understand various 'experts' have
           been predicting the "end of oil in the next 10 years" for at least
           30 years now, right?  As oil becomes harder to find and get out of
           the ground, it becomes more expensive and more money will be put
           into developing and subsidising other sources of energy (which *all*
           have their own problems) and life will go on.
           \_ Maybe you should read the link before you say anything - its about
              new estimates of the oil supply being far smaller than thought.
              If the oil starts running out in 2010, as they predict, the
              economic effects could be catastrophic.
              \_ That's what I'm saying.  "Experts" have been saying exactly
                 that since the early 70's.  What's so different about this
                 set of experts?  Anyway, what I said still stands: if oil
                 starts getting harder to pump in 2010, other energy sources
                 will look more viable, tech advances and government subsidies
                 will lower rates to economically viable ranges for the
                 consumer and businesses and we'll go on.  It doesn't matter
                 what kind of power plant provides energy for your wall socket
                 and hardly matters what powers your car.  Changing cars to
                 another fuel source will be the hardest part but it's not
                 impossible or even close.  Anyway, we'll just be swapping the
                 problems oil causes for other problems from the replacement
                 energy source.
                \_ I don't think we'll need to pave a sun-rich country
                   to prove worldwide dominance
                   \_ No, you'd just poison the rest of the planet with toxic
                      sludge to produce all those solar panels.  *EVERY* source
                      of energy we currently have has problems.  Solar isn't
                      some magical clean source of free power.
        \_ Yes, they predicted that oil production would peak in 2010.
           Turned out that it peaked in like 2001 and has been going down
           since.  Maybe it's just a local maxima, but add to that the new
           since.  Maybe it's just a local minima, but add to that the new
           demand from China where people are starting to buy cars, and I
           am going to invest in China/oil/gas related stocks like IVAN.
           Instead of worrying about things I can't control, I am going
           to profit from it.  This is kind of like the Economist repeatedly
           predicting the burst of the tech bubble in 1998 and 1999.  They
           sucked at the timing, but eventually it did happen, and no, I
           don't think the world is ready for the oil supply drying up.  There
           sucked at the timing, but eventually it did happen, and no, I
           don't think the world is ready for it.  They will be a worldwide
           depression.
           will be a worldwide depression.
           \_ Uhhh, timing is everything moron. Everybody knew that the tech
              bubble would burst, like everyone knows that petrol supplies
              will dry up. The important question is when.
              \_ Easier said than done.  I would rather be like Warren
                 Buffet getting out of tech early even though it may
                 mean giving up gains one may attain if one can time
                 perfectly.  Perfect timing is usually luck.  Same
                 principles apply to oil.
                 \_ A. There's no such thing as "perfect timing."
                    B. Timing is something that can be learned. If
                    that wasn't the case, then all traders would
                    trade equally good/bad over time. This is not
                    the case. There are certain individuals who
                    have winning strategies. Do they always time
                    correctly? No. But they win often enough to
                    know how to play the averages effectively.
                    \_ A. In investing, I prefer the Warren Buffet /
                          Peter Lynch way.  I find myself very good
                          and its potentially severe consequences,
                          I would rather not leave it up to "traders"
                          and "timers".
                 mean giving up gains one may attain if one can time
                 perfectly.  Perfect timing is usually luck.  Same
                 principles apply to oil.
                          at "trading" with hold times averaging around
                          1-month durations, but it takes a lot of work
                          and time.
                       B. In dealing with future oil shortage
                          problems and its potentially severe
                          consequences, I would rather not leave it
                          up to "traders" and "timers".
                          and its potentially severe consequences,
                          I would rather not leave it up to "traders"
                          and "timers".
2003/10/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:10469 Activity:nil
104/    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/6929308.htm
        Because we know Americans aren't willing to do this sort of work,
        we _need_ illegals or nothing would ever get done.
        \_ definitely.  I agree.  - someone who thinks Rush is being
           unfairly mischaracterized.
2003/10/4-5 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:10470 Activity:nil
10/4    Heh, turns out those Arnie Hitler quotes were made up by his
        ex-business partner who was trying to sell a book.  Time for lots of
        apologies all around on that one.  I don't expect to see any from
        anyone in the media even after above the fold giant headlines.  Maybe
        it'll be a page 9 blurb to correct their misunderstanding.
        \_ Even less reported was when Arnie broke up a neo-nazi gathering
           when he was 16 years old.
        \_ aren't these people legally culpable? also, is it legal to print a
           front page story claiming someone is a Nazi and then putting a tiny
           "correction" buried in the next issue?
           \_ There are some things in life a lawsuit can't correct.  The
              election will be long over and any damage done long before they
              get to court.  Anyway, I doubt he'd win anyway.  We have a very
              free press in this country.
        \_ url?
           \_ Page 9 of the entertainment section of the LA Times this morning.
2003/10/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:10471 Activity:nil
10/4    I love motdlogic.  If someone suggested here that a bass guitar player
        would make an excellent software engineer without any training, you'd
        laugh him off the forum.  But a bad action movie actor to run the
        the world's fifth largest economy?  That's a-ok!
        \_ Yeah, I've reconsidered and now Arnie is my last-place choice for
           replacement. A guy who knows nothing, won't debate, and doesn't even
           have any record of leadership (being an actor is about following
           directions), not got my vote.
           \_ You forgot the number one rule: anyone the press hates *that*
              much has to be doing *something* right.
              \_ yeah, like Saddam, or Hitler
        \_ Welcome to democracy.
        \_ he's also ahead in the polls in the most populous state in the
           U.S. i don't see why you're blameing the motd. he's probably
           less popular on the motd than in california at large.
        \_ So should we only vote for economists or politicians?  I'd be fine
           with only voting for economists.  But since when do economists run
           for public office?
        \_ This is contrary to what was intended when this country was founded.
           The idea was that serving in public office was a duty, like jury
           duty, not a career.  They never intended for career politicians to
           exist.  Term limits were an attempt to resurrect the concept but
           the term limit laws didn't go far enough.  Right idea, though.
           \_ Obviously you know nothing about government. Term limits
              are an exceedingly bad idea, and it is what got us into
              this mess. The government is the largest entity you have
              to deal with, and people need time to learn the ropes.
              If term limits were implemented in the federal level
              the House would be a non-functional body. There needs
              to be, and should be career politicians. If you don't like
              it then maybe we should hand over government to you and you
              can try to deal with the daily headaches of governing.
              \_ The House is already a non-functioning body.  WTF are you
                 talking about?  It's *you* who doesn't know how the government
                 works.  You think it was really cool to have a doddering vet
                 of the War of 1812 in there for a few centuries like Strom?
                 Get your two or three terms and get the hell out.  It should
                 be like jury duty, not a place to suck off the public teat
                 and drink in the power for life.  Shit, I even think Strom
                 was kind of funny at times and here and there he did do
                 some good things, but 60+ years in office?  Fuck that.
           \_ Though if anything, term limits as currently implemented have
              just made special interests more powerful, because newly
              elected candidates are that much more beholden to the money
              that got them into office.  We need serious, hardcore
              campaign finance laws for term limits to be effective, but the
              courts seem dead set against that.  Also, things are a lot
              different than they were in 1792.
              \_ I agree term limits alone aren't enough.  I had this very
                 same conversation over dinner tonight.  However, I don't
                 agree that things are different from 1792.  People are still
                 people, power still corrupts and absolute etc etc etc.  Some
                 things never change.  Like old crusty career politicians.
                 \_ Yeah, but the country is something like 200 times as large
                    population wise as it was in 1792. You don't think that
                    General Motors needs the same corporate structure as
                    the mom and pop grocery down the street do you? Our
                    government is large and complicated enough to require
                    career politicians. Note that I have change my position
                    on this after watching what has happend to California
                    since we instituted term limits. -AML
                    \_ Career politicians don't run the country.  The
                       beaurocrats do.  That's why you end up with so many
                       fucked up laws.  The people voting on them already don't
                       don't what they're voting on or what effect the bills
                       might have so how is being in office for a few decades
                       good for the rest of us?
              courts seem dead set against that.
2003/10/4-6 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:10472 Activity:moderate
10/4    RCS question: I've checked out (with a lock) revision 1.4 of a file
        which has a revision 1.9.  I want to check it in as revision 1.10
        and unlock it.  I thought this would work:
          ci -r1.4 -u1.10 test-contact.html
          but I get an error "ci: warning: redefinition of revision number"
        and revision 1.4 is still locked. I know RCS by default makes a new
        branch when you save changes to an old revision, but I want to keep
        the tree structure linear. Any pointers as to what I'm doing wrong?
        general question: how to check in a file and set the revision to the
        next main "trunk?" branch.
        \_ How about:
           $ mv test-contact.html test-contact.sav
           $ co -l test-contact.html
           $ mv test-contact.sav test-contact.html
           $ ci test-contact.html
           \_ not quite what I was looking for. I'd like a
           \_ ok, but that's not quite what I was looking for. I'd like a
              method that uses the ci and co or RCS commands? Thanks..
           \_ A much simpler question: What's the best way to make a new
              revision 1.10 that hass the contents of rev 1.4.  In other
              words "how to jump a previons revision to the top"?
              \_ co -l file; co -u1.4 file; ci file
                 \_ Aah. Excellent! You rock. you saved the day -op
              \_ A general way that works with cvs too:
              method that uses the ci and co or RCS commands? Thanks..
              words "how to jump a previons revision to the top"?
                 \_ Aah. Excellent! You rock. you saved the day -op
                 co -p1.4 file > file; ci file
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:04 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>