Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:September:29 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2003/9/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:10358 Activity:moderate
9/29    When we send something through the mail to another country, what
        incentive do the other countries have to deliver it? In other
        words, when we send domestic mail, we pay postage to the USPS,
        but what happens with international mail? Do the countries
        have some sort of agreement set up to pay each other?
        \_ http://www.upu.int/index.html  -John
           \_ it took a little digging, but that site turned out to be
              immensely useful.  thanks.  -!op
              \_ URLp?
              \_ yeah, could you please specify where you found the info?
                 At the top level, it's mostly fluff, and doesn't give
                 much insight...
                 \_ Ever hear of a faq? -nivra
                    http://www.upu.int/faq/en/index.html#19
           \_ http://www.upu.int/members/en/members.html  Funny. Taiwan
              isn't listed as a member.  How does mail get delivered there?
              -nivra
              \_ Magic fairy doves!
                 \_ Evil capitalist fairy doves
                    \_ Mail delivery has little to do with capitalism.
                \_ Falun Gong couriers!
2003/9/29 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/Security] UID:10359 Activity:nil
9/29    What do you guys use to SFTP your files from soda to home Winbox?
        I use WinSCP but it hangs too often.  Thx.
        \_ cygwin scp
        \_ SecureCRT + zmodem
                \_ SecureFX
        \_ Putty's pscp.  Though FileZilla works too.  Both are free.
        \_ http and mozilla
2003/9/29 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:10360 Activity:nil 66%like:11978
9/28    What is worst in life?
          To crush your lead in the polls
          to see it driven before you
          and to hear the lamentation of your advisors and handlers
        \_ And just who are you talking? Even Democratic polls have
           the recall in the bag and Arnold leading.
           \_ I was confused by this, too, so I decided it was best to just
              ignore it.  That which does not kill you, makes you stronger!
              Crom!
           \_ And the Conan thread wins by virtue of surviving nearly
              24 hours without being commented on or deleted!  Congrats,
              Conan thread!
              \_ I think we were all just stunned into confused silence.  But
                 no more!  The chain is broken!  The sleeper has awoken!  The
                 mighty troll god is loose!
                 \_ Then we must summon Thor, Jotun-Slayer and Troll-bane!
                    \_ No!  Not Troll-bane!  ACK!  --Troll Lord #1
2003/9/29 [Recreation/Humor] UID:10361 Activity:nil
9/29    This is amusing
        http://rtnl.org.uk/words/20020715-hugecrush_com.shtml  -John
        \_ why?
        \_ It's amusing to me because the only new mail in my inbox is a spam
           from that company.  (but I'm married and wasn't going to click on the
           mail anyway)
           \_ If you weren't married, would you click?
              \_ No, I was just trying to avoid the inevitable jokes.
2003/9/29 [Recreation/Dating] UID:10362 Activity:high
9/29    I really want to buy a powerbook.  But my wife thinks that it's too
        expensive.  How do I talk my wife into letting me buy one?  Or a
        more general question,  how do you talk your wife into letting you
        buy any of your toys?
            \- attack your wife for her frivolous purchases. does she
               eat out too much? order expensive wine? want you to stay
               in nicer hotels on vacation than you'ld be happy with,
               do you have domestic help? how much did you/does she spend on
               watch/jewelry etc. rent "carnal knowledge". --psb
        \_ double income, seperate checking,  marry someone who shares your
           value system. duh.  -happily married
        \_ where is bdg when you need him?
        \_ Well, it is too expensive. Let her buy an equally or better
           expensive toy, and then check on how you feel. Or better yet,
           buy some stock, and when it pays off enough, buy your PB.
        \_ Siphon $50 every two weeks from your paycheck/account and keep
           it secret.  After you've accumulated a decent chunk o'cash, tell
           your wife you've been saving up for a rainy day by eating out less
           and that you'd like to buy that notebook with the money you've
           saved as a kind of downpayment.
        \_ You guys are all a bunch of losers.  You have to convince your wife
           to 'let' you buy something?  You have to siphon off your lunch
           money?  Or what?  She'll with hold sex?  BFD.  A hooker is cheaper
           if that's all you're getting.  Get some balls!  I'm married and I
           buy whatever the fuck I please.  You guys and your 90's pansy boy
           routine make us all look bad.
           \_ heh, why don't you show your comment to your wife?
              i bet hilarity will ensue...
           \_ I think he might want to get permission if money is tight...
           \_ Spoken like a man who is either not married or does not love
              his wife.  Enjoy.
              \_ or a man with no plan for family.
              \_ I love my wife dearly.  I don't spend stupidly on toys like
                 new laptops.  And all these guys who are trying to fool their
                 wife or beg for permission are losers.
        \_ The only permission you need from your wife is for 3somes.
           \_ Only if she is one of the participants.
              \_ Or if she's properly tied up like she should be.
        \_ Try looking at one or two alternatives to the powerbook and
           note their advantages (e.g., lower price) as well as their
           disadvantages (e.g., lack of features which make you want the
           powerbook).  Then mention your thoughts when talking to your
           wife and ask her opinion.  If she is a reasonable person she
           will probably agree that it's worth buying the powerbook.
           When my wife wants to buy something expensive and I can tell
           she's looked at alternatives and their is a good reason for
           spending extra money, I don't have a problem with it.  She's
           the same way.  Good luck.
           \_ this reads like bullshit to me... when buying an LV purse or
              a cartier watch, you cant really "look at the alternatives"
              and then come up w/ a "good reason". it's "hmm, i think this
              one looks the best" or "this item has more prestige".
        \_ although amuzing, you guys should read "how do I convince my wife
           to get that XXX camera on http://dpreview.com".
2003/9/29 [Uncategorized] UID:10363 Activity:nil
9/29    Cohagen!
2003/9/29 [Uncategorized] UID:10364 Activity:nil
9/29    In a now-deleted thread someone said that they thought a few of
        the trillian skin were much better than the default - any
        specifically that were good?  Thanks!
2003/9/29-30 [Uncategorized] UID:10365 Activity:nil
9/29    Moving company picked up my stuff.  Now they called me to say that
        the actual volumes for the LCL load is 2m^3 bigger than their own
        estimate, which in turn is 1m^3 bigger than my own calculation
        after they have put everything in boxes.  Now since they have my
        stuff already, I have no choice but agreeing witht them, right?  And
        is this a standard trick of moving companies?
        \_ You used Starving Students, didn't you?  And no, you don't have to
           agree to anything.  Tell em to deliver as planned at the target
           address or you'll see them in court.
        \_ This seems to be the standard scam.
        \_ See "starving students horror stories" on http://google.com.
           In general, however, having your stuff and saying it'll cost more
           is a standard scam.  Go to http://parents.berkeley.edu if you want to
           see their recommendations on movers.
2003/9/29 [Uncategorized] UID:10366 Activity:nil
9/29    Crom!
2003/9/29-30 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:10367 Activity:nil 50%like:28081
9/29    Full ROTK trailer: /csua/tmp/rotk_trailer_480x280.mov
2003/9/29-30 [Uncategorized] UID:10368 Activity:nil
9/29    interesting newsite: http://www.pantsfactory.org
2003/9/29-30 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:10369 Activity:nil
9/29    Confessions of a Spam King
        http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/28/magazine/28SPAMLT.html
        \_ More like smug musings of a Spam King.  Grr.  Hang 'em all.
2003/9/29-30 [Health/Disease/General] UID:10370 Activity:high
9/29    I am Detective John Kimball!
        \_ It is not a tumor.
           \_ Eest nod uh tooma
              \_ Stop whining!
                \_ Who is yoo daddy und wot does he do?
2003/9/29 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:10371 Activity:moderate
9/29    Sources close to the former president say Rove was fired from the
        1992 Bush presidential campaign after he planted a negative
        story with columnist Robert Novak about dissatisfaction with
        campaign fundraising chief and Bush loyalist Robert Mosbacher Jr.
        It was smoked out, and he was summarily ousted. -Esquire, Jan 2003
        \_ AH HA!  THE SMOKING GUN!  NOW WE *KNOW* FOR *CERTAIN* HE GAVE UP
           THE CIA AGENT IN NIGERIA!  BRILLIANT DETECTIVE WORK!
           \_ Nah, it just makes Rove look bad.  "Having a pump is like having
              sex.  I train two, sometimes three times a day.  Each time I get
              a pump.  It's great.  I feel like I'm coming all day."
              \_ that's not rove you moron, that's arnold
                 \_ as in, the article in Oui just made Ahnold look bad,
                    but it didn't prove anything... just like Rove.
2003/9/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:10372 Activity:very high
9/29    My father told me over the weekend that he had told the RNC to take
        his name off of all their lists, and that he was changing his voting
        registration to undeclared after 40 years of registering R.  This is
        a man who was in the Navy 25 years, and is very proud of his service.
        He has become disgusted with the current administration, not to mention
        the circus that is California.  I'm astounded that the conservatives
        speaking here have not been more introspective themselves about their
        convictions, and where their alignments lie.  --scotsman
                \_ I cannot speak for other conservatives, but I gave up
                   discussing political issues on the motd because it
                   was impossible to have a decent conversation due to
                   the censors, trolls and flamers (right and left are
                   both guilty of this).
                   BTW, your father isn't the only Republican who is
                   upset with the current state of the party and its
                   leadership. My family has voted Republican since
                   we first immigrated to this country (~ 30 yrs ago).
                   For the last year or so we have been considering
                   changing our registration to undeclared.
        \_ Wesley Clark is also proud of his service. What that has to do
           with R or D is beyond me. --dim
           \_ Clark's history as a Democrat goes back about 6 months.  I don't
              count that against him, and I'd vote for him if he were
              nominated, but I'm just saying.  If you're considering Bush,
              you need to really look at what has happened in a 4 year term.
        \_ you're dad is a twit
           \_ This one's truly beautiful. --scotsman
        \_ Why do you assume that being introspective "about [your] convictions,
           and where [your] alignments lie" means we'll come to the same
           conclusion as your father?  While I don't think he's a twit, I'm
           rather surprised at his conclusions.
           \_ I'm not saying you should arrive at the same conclusions, but
              the responses I see here are kneejerk, lopsided, and often
              uninformed.  I think there's a lot to think about that many
              here have rejected flat out. --scotsman
              \_ I see the same among the liberal views here except they're more
                 emboldened.  Practically every conservative response in the
                 motd or wall is just an invitation for a pile-on.  We thinking
                 conservatives have given up putting our comments up for the
                 inevitable liberal spin/lie/pile-on that follows.  And of
                 course there are also the outright deletions.  Please don't
                 make the (very poor thinking) assumption that the motd is a
                 realistic slice of the philosophical spectrum.
                 \_ Funny that the deletions I've seen come shortly after a
                    salient point by a lefty gets posted.  I think there are
                    people on both sides lying to themselves. --scotsman
                    \_ I think *both* sides get deletions.
        \_ How in the world can he blame CA on the RNC?  Democrats hold *every*
           statewide office, and have dominated for decades.
           \_ Mmm.. logical leaps.  Look at prop 13.
           \_ I think he meant more the current electoral joke. --scotsman
              \_ What electoral joke?  Hint: just because some call the recall a
                 joke doesn't mean that it is.  The number of people signing the
                 petition is a massive showing of democracy in action.
                 \_ Massive?  perhaps when we get a turnout >30% in an election,
                    you can call it a "massive showing of democracy".
                 \_ Massive?  perhaps when we get a turnout >30% in an
                    election, you can call it a "massive showing of
                    democracy".  Anyway, I'm the one calling it a joke.
                    Take it or leave it.  --scotsman
                    \_ son of a twit
                    \_ When have you ever seen ~2x10^6 people sign a petition?
                       It's amazing.  Please detail why you think it's a joke,
                       and why you yourself are not a twit.
                       \_ Did you sign it?  Are you voting yes?  Why? --scotsman
        \_ After carefully reading your comments, I've concluded that you're a
           twit.  And so is your dad.
           \_ Then I'm glad we'll likely never meet. --scotsman
2003/9/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic] UID:10373 Activity:high
9/29    I keep having people tell me they prefer Republicans because the
        Republicans have "principles".  What "principles" do Republicans
        have?
        \_ Conservatives.  Republicans may or may not have principles.
           Conservatives have principles.  They are well documented.  No
           need to troll here.
           \_ Sigh.  Some people are principled.  Some people are not.
              Their political affiliation has nothing to do with it.
              Also, what's so great about principles if they are awful
              principles?  I hear Tom Metzger is quite principled.
              \_ Who said anything about great?  The question asked about
                 existence.  It was answered.  The op can draw his own
                 conclusions.  Move along, no pile-on here, lefty boy.
              \_ Also, saying some people are principled is true but unhelpful.
                 Being a conservative implies a certain philosophical
                 commitment, hence having certain principles.  It's what
                 being a conservative MEANS.  Being a republican entails nothing
                 except membership in a certain org.  Sheesh.  Why does this
                 need to be explained?
           \_ Well done.  -conservative and only sometimes republican
           \_ What principles do Conservatives represent?
              \_ "You can never be too rich."
        \_ Democrats have principles too.  Just not Davis, Clinton, etc.
        \_ From WordNet:
  conservative
       adj 1: resistant to change [ant: {liberal}]
       2: opposed to liberal reforms
       3: avoiding excess; "a conservative estimate" [syn: {cautious}]
       4: unimaginatively conventional; "a colorful character in the
          buttoned-down, dull-gray world of business"- Newsweek
          [syn: {button-down}, {buttoned-down}]
       5: conforming to the standards and conventions of the middle
          class; "a bourgeois mentality" [syn: {bourgeois}, {materialistic}]
       n : a person who has conservative ideas or opinions
           [ant: {liberal}]
       \_ Clearly this dictionary needs to be burned.
         \_ clearly this entire thread is pointless and uninteresting. - danh
2003/9/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:10374 Activity:moderate
9/29    Sorry kids!  Better luck next time!  In Novak's own words,
        'Nobody in the Bush administration called me to leak this. In July I
        was interviewing a senior administration official on Ambassador
        Wilson's report when he told me the trip was inspired by his wife, a
        CIA employee working on weapons of mass destruction. Another senior
        official told me the same thing. As a professional journalist with 46
        years experience in Washington I do not reveal confidential sources.
        When I called the CIA in July to confirm Mrs. Wilson's involvement in
        the mission for her husband -- he is a former Clinton administration
        official -- they asked me not to use her name, but never indicated it
        would endanger her or anybody else. According to a confidential source
        at the CIA, Mrs. Wilson was an analyst, not a spy, not a covert
        operator, and not in charge of undercover operatives'
        \_ Sounds like a leak to me. Reread the second sentence over again.
           Just because Novak called the official doesn't mean that he didn't
           have a responsibility to keep her identity secret from the press.
           Plus, there are those six other reporters that were contacted
           by the White House....
           \_ Reread the last sentence you twink.
           \_ I agree:  Novak is telling it like it happened, and it still
              sounds bad.  There were no calls to Novak according to him,
              but two senior Bush officials did reveal her identity.  The
              CIA told Novak not to use Wilson's wife's name.  Novak found
              out -- possibly only recently -- that the wife was an analyst
              and not undercover.
              The effect is still to intimidate, the law still broken
              by the two senior administration officials, and someone may
              end up going to jail.
              \_ If she wasn't a covert operative then no law was broken and
                 there's no intimidation.
                 \_ sure, and analysts are desk workers who are never ever
                    in danger from foreign governments.
        \_ As the other person pointed out, Novak was told that revealing
           her name would cause problems. The real blame lies with the
           leakers, who according to a second SAO leak to WaPo, did this
           purely to indimidate. They broke federal law and anyone who
           knows about it and doesn't come forward is also guilty according
           to US Code (misprision of felony) --aaron
        \_ Let me quote DailyKOS: (--aaron)
           A couple of things:

           This changes nothing re: the law -- two senior administration
           officials still revealed the identity of an undercover CIA officer.

           Also, if Novak is correct, then what about the other reporters
           contacted with the information?  Novak has had a rocky
           relationship with this administration, but at the end of the
           day, he would rather have a Republican in the White House than a
           Democrat. He _is_ a partisan, and his statement (which remember,
           doesn't exculpate the administration from wrongdoing) is simply
           the first salvo of the administration's counterattack.
           \_ Now you're mix n matching to suit your agenda.  She worked for
        \_ Sounds like a leak to me. Reread the first sentence over again.
              the CIA pushing paper, not as a field agent.  One is a felony,
              the other is nothing.
              \_ BTW, I hope none of the impressionable young motd readers
                 out there actually believe this "analyst" spin.  Novak
                 himself was even backpedaling on that when Ensor stated
                 that his sources say she was undercover.  Wilson also stated
                 the same thing on NPR.
              \_ The reply to you above said it all. Your response are very
                 revealing. Let me guess, you were one of the many who
                 screamed about every Arkansas Project invention from
                 Troopergate (found to be fabricated with bribes from
                 Scaife) and Travelgate (found to be cooked up by RNC)
2003/9/29-30 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Health/Women] UID:10375 Activity:nil
9/29    birth control methods include failure percentages in a year, but of
        the successful percentages, how many of them are infertile? In
        another word do companies take in account of couples who can't
        conceive, and take them out of the statistics?
        \_ Think about this for a minute.
        \_ if you're infertile, why would you use birth control? and even if
           you did (because you didn't know), the product would still 'work'
           for you. Is this supposed to be a troll or just dumb? It seems
           more bizarre than troll.
           \_ This is actually a very important question. And yes, studies
              take this into account (or they should) when rating
              birth control products. Depending on how they conduct the
              study and who does it, the assumption is that couples are
              fertile and in their prime. Studies like this usually prescreen
              and preselect couples, and they typically have a control group.
              Since these studies are widely used in academia and are typically
              published in JAMA they should be relatively accurate. However,
              even the best studies have been proven wrong in the past. JAMA
              and the AMA as well as the FDA are hardly failsafe in their
              scrutiny.
              \_ Heh.  You should hear what an epidemologist I heard today
                 had to say about JAMA.  Meanwhile consider the statement
                 'If it's published in X, it should be Y,' for various values
                 of X and Y.  For instance X = internet, Y = true.
                 \- yeah my friends in stat/biostat also roll their eyes
                    when trying to do sophisticated statistics with doctors
                    who think they know everything. --psb
           \_ infertile != sterile.  infertile means the gametes are there
              but they have a tough time meeting or going forward in
              development after they do meet.
              \_ sort of like the bar scene?
2003/9/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10376 Activity:kinda low
9/29    WMD destroyed long before the war, just like we told you neocons:
        http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101031006/wwmd.html
        \_ And just how did you know that when the inspectors left in 1998?
           \_ Simple enough. I listened to what the people who had actually
              been there, like Colonel Ritter, had to say, not the lying
              politicians (of both stripes) in Washington.
              \_ Ritter?  Child-loving Ritter?  Who took money from an Iraqi to
                 do a documentary about Iraq?
                 \_ Credibility never counts with the Left, as long as they're
                    hearing what they want to hear.
                    \_ Who has the credibility now?
                       \_ It remains to be seen.
                 \_ So, are you going to present actual evidence of this
                    slanderous charge, or are you just going to keep
                    repeating the party line, ditto-head?
                    \_ Duh, idiot.  He was charged and indicted for the sex
                       offense and has never denied the Iraqis paid him $300k
                       to make a 'documentary'.  Google.
                       \_ Then post a URL.  The only ones i see are on dittohead
                          sites.
                          \_ Is MSNBC good enough you idiot?
                             http://tinyurl.com/p444
           \_ And how about the CIA people who were complaining about intel
              being cooked to support the WH? Remember Ray McGovern? There
              were others.
              \_ How about them?
        \_ Doesn't matter - time to rid the world of dictators one at a time
           \_ start by voting democrat in 2004
              \_ Then the entire US can be just like CA!  Oh wait...
              \_ Ooooooh, SNAP!
                 \_ Uh, yeah.  Like I said, the Left only hears what it wants
                    to hear.  When we stop having elections here let us know
                    which Democrat started the coup.
                    \_ Wow, you are really deluded.
                       \_ Yeah you sure put me in my place.  Here's my really
                          brilliant counter point, "Wow, you are really
                          deluded".  Hah!  I sure put you in your place!
2003/9/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:10377 Activity:nil
9/29    I keep waiting for Ahnold to go bananas.
        \_ Go Arhnold! Still, the "south park"-like flash movie on
           Arianna's site is funny.
           \_ But is it changing your vote in any way at all?
              \_ No, not at all. I just hope that Arnold can pull
                 everyone together, instead of becoming another Ventura.
                 My guess is that now the demo's will put up roadblocks
                 to anything meaningful until 2006 and say, "we told you
                 so." I do think that voting for a moderate is the way to
                 go...Maria will keep him honest.
2003/9/29 [Uncategorized] UID:29547 Activity:nil
9/29    How the hell are you?
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:September:29 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>