Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:September:11 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2003/9/11 [Computer/SW/Apps/Media, Computer/Networking] UID:10142 Activity:moderate
9/10    Does anybody else see themselves telling their kids in 15 years,
        "Yeah, I shared files... but it was a different time back then."?
        \_ Dual Income, No Kids, Early Retirement, Happy Life.
           \_ Censor censor censor.  Join the army and mark things.
              \_ The motd censor struck, so I had to remark on it.
                 Apparently someone has decided that there is no such
                 thing as a fat sysadmin.  Probably they're a fat sysadmin
                 themselves.
                 \_ You can't censor a content-free statement.  Your fat
                    sysadmin silliness just adds noise.  If you had something
                    to say it would still be here.
                    \_ I also like the fat sysadmin posts
                       \_ It's funny the first time.  Now it's just noise.
                          Like other trolls and 100% noise posts, they'll be
                          purged instantly like all content-free posts.  I'm
                          one of the louder anti-censor people but I also
                          understand that adding noise is a form of censorship
                          which makes it harder for others to see real content
                          or discuss anything real.  By removing trash and
                          trolls, censorship is weakened.
                          \_ Your logic is flawed.  The motd is 100% white
                             noise.
        \_ http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
        \_ yes.  and I can tell my kids (when they are old enough) that
           I was part of underground resistance movement fighting against
           unfair copyright and intellectual property laws.  And no,
           I don't think 90 years of protection is fair.  RIAA is just
           pissed off because they can no longer make obscene profit,
           ignoring consumer's demand like the way they used to (force
           all the junk down his throat when all he wanted is one single
           hit song... just an example)
           \_ Not to mention the fact that the artists themselves see only
              a fraction of the profits unless they've already become wildly
              successful...and typically lose the rights to the music that
              they've created in the first place.
              \_ It's funny that computer programmers don't see the irony
                 here.  -tom
                 \_ Computer programmers are typically very well compensated
                    for the work that they do.  Last I checked, musicians
                    aren't guaranteed any sort of compensation at all.  I
                    see what you're getting at, but I think you're wrong.
                    \_ Neither are programmers.  Heard of the H1b program?
                       \_ Yes.  Two of my friends at Intel were H1B's (each with
                          MS degrees) and were paid according to their grade
                          level (which was the same as Americans with MS
                          degrees).  They were also some of the best engineers I
                          knew. --emarkp
                 \_ are you saying software engineers are like musicians?
                    please name one piece of software that was written in
                    less than a week by four guys, and which was then used
                    for decades with no modification whatsoever and made
                    millions of dollars.  and show me one job ad for
                    a musician to make 80k/year garrunteed with benefits,
                    regardless of wether their code directly makes money
                    or not.  there are similarities in the IP issues, but
                    the economics of the two industries are totally different.
                    maybe i'm reading too much into your post.
                    \_ you're reading too much into the post.
                 \_ I agree with tom on this.  The stars must be in some
                    weird alignment.
              \_ the funny thing is that in the small, non-RIAA labels where
                 the artists actually do see a significant portion of profits,
                 the CD's are actually cheaper.  http://www.misfits.com
                 And, they give away songs and videos free on the internet!
                 The Misfits may sing about evil, but unlike other segments
                 of the record industry they don't actually embody it.
                 amazingly they seem to understand that the same people who
                 download their video for free are likely to spend 30 bucks
                 to go see them in concert.  personally, i'm just going to
                 buy all my music from Misfits records.
              \_ This is all well and good, but it's clear you aren't
                 interested in fighting the (flawed) system but in getting
                 freebies, in other words, stealing.  If you actually wanted
                 to fight you would organize politically.  As it is you
                 are a twice dishonest thief.
                 \_ Failed your reading comprehesion, I see.  I don't support
                    stealing or theft -- either by institutions or
                    individuals.  You need to stop frothing at the mouth long
                    enough to really think.
                 \_ Easy on the assumptions, chief. What makes you think
                    the above poster doesn't contribute to defense funds
                    etc.?
        \_ The ethics of file sharing is intimately related to copyright and
        intellectual property law.  As perhaps some children and
        teenagers unconsciously appreciate, stealing a loaf of bread is an
        inherently different act than downloading a song.  Stealing bread
        denies another from eating it, while downloading a song denies nobody
        else from hearing it.

        Of course, the musicians who produce a song should be compensated if
        we as a society want to encourage the production of music.  The
        framers of the constitution recognized this by allowing congress to
        grant an exclusive right to distribute books, music, etc. for a
        LIMITED TIME.

        Essentially, the idea of copyright is a social contract between the
        consumers and producers of music.  Consumers agree to pay the
        producers for new works with the understanding that, after a
        reasonable time, these works will pass into the public domain.
        Limited copyright strikes a balance between the non-exclusive nature
        of music (i.e., my downloading a copy does not deprive you of the use
        of your version) and the need for musicians to be compensated.

        Unfortunately, the producers of music, movies, and other media have
        refused to hold up their end of the contract.  Large corporations have
        repeatedly lobbied congress to extend copyrights in order to prevent
        their works from passing into the public domain.  In addition, music
        companies in particular have violated various other laws by colluding
        to artificially prop up music prices.  Consequently, a strong case can
        be made that while file sharing may be illegal it is not unethical.
        \_ it's incredible that we live in a country where the intellectual
           property generated by a bunch of kids in a garage 50 years ago
           property generagted by a bunch of kids in a garage 50 years ago
           enjoys more protection than, say, a new drug that took years and
           hundreds of millions of dollars to develop.  It's even more
           incredible that most people don't seem to think this is odd.
           I'm not arguing for stronger patent law; I'm agreeing with you that
           copyright law as it stands in the US is crazy. under US law, my
           post is copyrighted, and technically i could sue all of you for
           "stealing" it by reading this.
           \_ technically, no you couldn't but I agree with the rest.
        \_ that looks like some giant cut n paste from some site. it's also
           based on the assumption that stealing a physical object is different
           than intellectual property.  i think Intel, Ford, and GE would
           disagree with you that the IP they've spent (B)illions of dollars
           to create is not yours for the taking if you find an empty work
           station and bring your own floppy disk on a factory tour.
           \_ Intel Ford and GE would be wrong then. Ideas are not the
              same as things, no matter how much lawyers would like to
              pretend otherwise.
              \_ So you think it's ok to bring your own floppys on a company
                 tour and copy shit off their computers and take it home with
                 you and share it on the net?  After all, it's only IP and not
                 something physical they're losing.  They still have *their*
                 copy of the plans for their next chip/car/appliance, right?
                 I hope you understand that's what you're saying.  The rest of
                 us, non-lawyers included, would call it theft.
           \_ It's a cut n paste from a letter to the editor that I wrote.
              Note that the point isn't that intellectual property should
              not exist or that you should be able to "take IP".  The point
              is that IP is a fiction designed to balance compensating the
              originators of IP and the benefit to society of making IP
              freely available.  In US law, IP is not a "right" like the
              right to life, liberty, and happiness; IP is specifically
              designed to promote science and the arts.
              \_ Was it actually published?  You made the point very well.
                 \_ Thanks for the compliment.  I sent it yesterday and
                    recevied an automated reply saying that letters over
                    150 words would not be published.
              \_ First off, *all* laws are fiction.  You don't _really_ have
                 the *right* to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
                 That's a fiction.  The concept of physical property not
                 currently in your personal physical possession is also a
                 fiction.  Only the law says your stuff is still your stuff
                 when you're not around.  The law has been extended for
                 creative expressions known as Intellectual Property.  Other
                 than people interested in free-as-in-beer music I think every
                 one should easily be able to see this.
                 \_ True, law is a fiction.  But the law of physical
                    property goes back to primitive times and is designed
                    to promote peace and progress to mankind-- ie,
                    well-defined propery ownership benefits mankind by
                    minimizing disputes and enables some other worthwhile
                    goals (e.g., capitalism, avoiding the tragedy of the
                    commons, etc.).  Intellectual property laws exist
                    because the Framers of the Constitutions recognized
                    that such laws could be of some similar benefit to
                    mankind-- encouraging a creative person to share his
                    invention/music/book/discovery by giving him a
                    temporary monopoly.  Current law, however, is a sad
                    bastardization of what IP was meant to be.
                    \_ I disagree with you and the post you replied to.
                       According to documents written by the forefathers
                       of our government, people have certain inalienable
                       rights.  These rights are not regarded as fiction.
                       You may disagree with this view, but certain rights
                       are viewed as fundamental parts of any legitimate
                       government and IP is not one of them.
                       \_ According to documents is the key phrase.  The rights
                          *are* fiction.  They are created by laws created by
                          men and didn't exist until this country was free from
                          Britain and even today must be guarded closely lest
                          we lose them.  IP is merely an extension of simple
           "stealing" it by reading this.
                          property rights.
2003/9/11 [Uncategorized] UID:10143 Activity:nil
9/10    Anyone else get an automated email from http://wordofmouth.com or something
        like that?  Mine was based on my jobs email address and they don't
        allow you to send any sort of response or contact the person who they
        claim has commented about you or is seeking you without paying them.
        It looks like a big scam to me but I was just wondering if this is a
        real service that people actually use.  I'd think anythone who wanted
        to contact me and already had my email could just, you know, email me.
2003/9/11 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:10144 Activity:kinda low
9/10    Re: MBA thread below.  I wanted to get an MBA a couple of years back.
        I got all the applications and even visited a couple of schools.  Then
        I started reading books by successful businessman like Sam Walton,
        Michael Dell, Andy Grove, etc.  *NONE* of these men have MBAs.  But
        they're still very sucessful.  That's when I had an epiphany:
        Entreprenurial capitalism cannot be taught.  It is the fire in the
        belly that's either there or isn't there.  Getting an MBA will help
        you get a high paying job. But if you want to do something greater
        like actually CREATE jobs for MBAs, you need to look deep inside and
        see if you have the passion to sell. -self employed sodan
        \_ You're right.  Also, Bill Gates doesn't have any college degree.  I
           inadverdently started this religious war a while ago--my conclusion
           is that, like all non-vocational schools (does med school count?)
           it's not meant to teach you how to how to do a particular job, but
           rather ought to give you some tools and resources to make your task
           easier.  The contacts one makes probably aren't bad either.
           However, a lot of people on soda seem to have some religious
           zealotry about any scholastic learning being evil--whatever.
           Just inform yourself and do what's right for you.  -John
           rather ought to give you some tools and resources.  The contacts
           one makes probably aren't bad either.  However, a lot of people on
           soda seem to have some religious zealotry about learning anything
           in a school being evil--whatever.  Just inform yourself and decide
           what's right for you.  -John
2003/9/11 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10145 Activity:nil
9/10    http://nationalreview.com/comment/comment-lynch082103.asp
        \_ a remarkably even-handed criticism of the civil rights issues
           raised by the Patriot Act by a rabidly conservative media outlet.
           check it out!  --charmer
           \_ I don't think Cato institute is rabidly conservative.  They
              are libertarians, they don't like government interfering with
              people's lives.
              \_ they don't like the government interfering in corporations
                 lives, which allows for more corporate intereference
                 in our lives.  In every way that matters, they are the
                 very far right.
                 \_ very far right != conservative, anymore than very far left
                    == liberal.
2003/9/11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:10146 Activity:nil 60%like:29422
9/10    OpenBSD 3.3 semaphore patch (earlier versions are not affected):
        http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-security-announce&m=106323655917088&w=2
        ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/patches/3.3/common/003_sysvsem.patch
2003/9/11 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:10147 Activity:nil
9/10    Can i buy PhD strips at a drugstore?  if not then where?
        \_ No, but I think Walgreen's sells MBA jerky (spicy and regular)
2003/9/11 [Uncategorized] UID:10148 Activity:nil
9/10    Anyone have ticketmaster's number.  It is no longer listed in the
        toll free directory. (it used to be)
        \_ http://www.ticketmaster.com click "Help". Dumbass.
2003/9/11 [Uncategorized] UID:10149 Activity:nil
9/10    About Freehoo, it already has the logging feature I was looking for.
        ~/.freehoo/history
        \_ install it on soda already
        \_ what is it?
           \_ a free text-mode yahoo instant messenger application
2003/9/11 [Uncategorized] UID:10150 Activity:nil
9/10    Spam subject line: "enlengthen your thing".
2003/9/11-12 [Politics] UID:10151 Activity:high
9/10    Opus returns:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45450-2003Sep8.html
        \_ "I think there's been three great strips that have gone away over
           the last five, 10 years that I really miss: 'Bloom County,' 'Calvin
           and Hobbes' and 'The Far Side.' Those are the three strips that
           never should have ceased."
           It's funny to think how Bill Watterson and Berkeley Breathed had
           a spat.  Does anyone have a URL to that sketch Watterson sent
           to Breathed?  It was someone stuffing cash into a speedboat.
           \_ Wasn't Bloom County a shameless rip-off of Doonesbury?  I
              remember reading about Breathed doing a wholesale copy of
              another strip.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
                 \_ Bloom County has elements from Doonesbury, but
                    so does just about every good occasionally politically
                    oriented comic strip, it's not fair to tar Bloom County
                    as being a complete rip-off of Doonsebury. - danh
                    \_ hey, don't blame the motd.  Trudeau is still pissed
                       about this.  i don't understand why, since they
                       both won pulitzer prizes.
              \_ http://www.toonopedia.com/bloom.htm
           \_ I hated Bloom County when I was a kid. Then again I wasn't crazy
              about Doonesbury. But I liked the talking cigarette ones.
                \_ so go read Garfield, moron
                   \_ I love the motd.  He doesn't like something you like so
                      he's automatically a moron.  That's so great.  You guys
                      are all so kewl since you know what the right comics are!
                        \_ he doesn't like the two comics which actually
                           had intelligence.
                           \_ oh, so Calvin and Hobbes and the Far Side
                              totally lack intelligence?  i see. you're
                              a dumbass. it's all clear now.
                           \_ no, he didn't like the two comics which were
                              super heavily opinionated, somewhat weird and
                              often not at all funny.  some people like their
                              funny pages to be funny.  weird, huh?  he must
                              be a moron for not liking that same things as
                              "everyone else".
                                \_ no, he's a moron for not liking Bloom
                                   County.
                                   \_ Uh huh.  Bloom County was only so-so and
                                      for only part of the run.  The Earth kept
                                      spinning when he stopped writing it.
                           \_ Dude, he said, "WHen I was a kid."  You're
                            calling an 8yr old stupid for not liking
                              political strips?
           \_ A Google search for "bill watterson art breathed" returns this as
              the first link: http://ignatz.brinkster.net/cbillart.html
                --jameslin
2003/9/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10152 Activity:high
9/11    http://salon.com/politics/wire/2003/09/11/dean_israel/index.html
        Dean criticized for being too "evenhanded" about Israel.
        \_ While his views may be the same as Clinton and Bush Sr.'s,
           he didn't have the intelligence to not stick his foot in his mouth
        \_ evenhanded is a code word for "tell the Israelis to stop defending
           themselves and go back to '67 borders".  Do you feel any different
           knowing what the phrase means?
           \_ You may have a point, but I have never, ever heard of
              "evenhanded" being used as a code word.  I could just as easily
              say, for example, that "affirmative action is a code-word for
              the coloreds overrunning the country" or something stupid like
              that.
              \_ you could say anything you want but that wouldn't make it so.
                 in this case, it is so.
           \_ What is wrong with asking Isreal to return a little land
              to the people they took it all from in return for peace? No
              one is asking Isreal to stop defending themselves....
              Oh I get it, I have just been trolled. Nevermind.
              \_ You weren't trolled. You *are* a troll and an historically
                 ignorant one at that.  No cookie.
              \_ Wow.  Well, for starters because it won't grant peace....
                 \_ I forgot... by continuing conquer Palestinian, treat
                    the Arabs within Israel as less-than-second-class citizen
                    Israel will achieve eternal peace.
                    \_ Nice emotional knee-jerk logic there.  Try picking
                       up a decent history book and, you know, reading it.
                       \_ Don't try to bring history, facts, or logic into a
                          discussion about Israel and Palestine.  You'll just
                          be accused of being racist for not supporting the
                          "Palestinian People", a ficticious people created
                          in the 50's.
                          \_ Yes, I see that now.  And here I am trying to
                             be reasonable with the ESL Anti-US Conspiracy
                             Theory Guy.  I loves de MOTD!
                          \_ Fictitious people? Yes they don't exist. They are
                             subhumans who have no rights.
                             \_ Uhm, I don't think that's what the PP was
                                saying.  I *think* he was making a statement
                                about the label being artificial and perhaps
                                an oversimplification.  *shrug*  Maybe he'll
                                speak up and clarify....
        \_ "``It is unacceptable for the U.S. to be `evenhanded' on these
           fundamental issues,'' the letter said." Love it.
           \_ Of course it is.  Even if "evenhanded" meant what you'd like it
              to mean, it would be unacceptable to support an enemy over an
              ally at any time for any reason.
              \_ Enemy? That's not US policy. Why don't you explain how
                 "settlements" (as if the area wasn't already settled) are a
                 just thing and why removing them is so unthinkable.
2003/9/11-12 [Uncategorized] UID:10153 Activity:very high
9/11    Why is vanilla/cherry/"and whatever other shit they've come up this
        week" is being pushed down to our throats? All I want is a regular Coke
        but most of the time the vending machine are out of it. Of course,
        there is usually plenty of vanilla coke still left in them since
        no one buys this crap.
        \_ don't worry, vanilla coke has just as much cocaine as normal coke
        \_ are you old enough to remember new coke?
        \_ Yeah, it's so hard to walk half a block to the liquor store where
           you have 50 choices.  You're better off without coke anyway.
           \_ It's a lot more than a block. I am talking about the campus
              vending machines.
              \_ God, you'd have to walk like, 5 minutes?  It might even be
                 healthy for you!
                 \_ That's the problem.  I want to avoid all healthy things.
                    Otherwise I can't sue the company over my obesity in the
                    years to come.
2003/9/11-12 [Computer/HW] UID:10154 Activity:nil
9/11    Is there a commercial server colocation service somewhere in Berkeley?
        \_ There's something in Emeryville, and InReach in Oakland. --scotsman
        \_ Do you really want your computers on top a major fault that
           is predicted to rip open any minute now?
           \_ That's fine. It's just one server that's worth about
           $1000 when it's new.
        \_ winterlink, but i don't recommend them.  Why not just get a "dedicated
           server" somewhere? -crebbs
2003/9/11-12 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:10155 Activity:nil
9/11    I am looking for a program that can make a flow chart out of
        C code. Is there anything opensource, or does Borland or MS C
        coding environment have anything that could do this?
        \_ man cflow. See cflow run. Run cflow, run!
2003/9/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10156 Activity:nil
9/11    "Gov. Gray Davis' administration says it is unlikely to approve plans
        for substantial reductions to the state payroll until the middle of
        next month. That makes it likely that the impact of the cuts -- in
        thousands of layoffs and in reduced state services -- won't become
        public until after the Oct. 7 recall election."
        http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/ca/budget/story/7393104p-8336582c.html
        \_ Davis is a master at hiding bad news until after the election,
           which a huge part of why he's up for recall now.  Look, its not
           smooth sailing once he's elected, he still has to deal with the
           consequenses of his policies.  Thank goodness for the Recall!
2003/9/11-12 [Uncategorized] UID:10157 Activity:nil
9/11    Not to worry sodans!
        http://digital.lib.umn.edu/IMAGES/reference/swhp/SWHP0016.jpg
        \_ Is that aaron?
          \_ No, he saves the seminal emissions for the AznSchoolGurlz.
2003/9/11-12 [Recreation/Dating] UID:10164 Activity:low
9/11    Where can I find pics of sky's Korean gf?
        \_ email him?
        \_ why do you care?
           \_ Because she's hot.  I miss her boobs.
              \_ missing them implies you once had them.  seems unlikely.
              \_ missing them implies you once had then.  seems unlikely.
2003/9/11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29532 Activity:high
9/10    http://CNN.com story - "A UK-based Islamist group is planning a conference
        on September 11 hailing the suicide attackers who killed thousands in
        New York and Washington as "The Magnificent 19." http://csua.org/u/49e
        \_ The UK is a known haven for anti-Western Islamic forces.  This
           'conference' shouldn't surprise anyone.
        \_ let's fly a plane into their conference
           \_ that's a good idea.
        \_ the Islamist group's web site is down. doesn't respond to pings.
           why can't these arabs keep their websites up?
2003/9/11 [Uncategorized] UID:29533 Activity:high
9/10    What is a regular expression to match local0.warning or local0.notice
        or local0.debug?
        \_ local0.*
        \_ local0\.(warning|notice|debug)
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/21    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:September:11 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>