Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:August:24 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2003/8/24-25 [Computer/SW/Languages, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:29452 Activity:high
8/23    There are a lot of software that help you write outlines.
        I, however, don't think in the outline mode.  I tend to draw
        "mind bubble" during the brainstorming phase.  Is there any software,
        commerical/open source that can help me to draw them on a computer?
        Is there a proper term for "mind bubble" so i can look up on Google?
        \_ you will have to do some legwork on your own:
        \_ brain storming
        \_ ["engrish" drivel deleted] fuck you...when someone speaks
           broken english it usually just means they speak another
           language better than you
           \_ i know too many people who were born and raised and went to
              college in other countries, including china, who can write
              and speak in clear, correct english to agree with your point
              of view.  I am Amercian, yet i can speak Chinese.  it has
              been my observation that alot of the chinese poeple in
              technical fields whose english sucks are bad communicaters
              in either language(much like their american counterparts.)
              and before you start flaming, i was not the person who
              posted the "engrish" post you're responding to.
              \_ Thank you.  I want also point out that communication has
                many fronts.  A bad writer (like me) does not necessarily mean
                he can not communicate verbally.
                   --OP (asking for brain storming software and didn't expect
                         the thread became a debate in English)
           \_ I'll bet you would defend that school administrator who fired a
              few dozen teachers who couldn't pass the same test he himself
              couldn't pass after 3 or 4 tries.  His excuse?  He was foreign
              born, although he'd been here for 20+ adult years.  And no, I
              seriously doubt foreign geeks communicate in their native tongue
              better than American geeks communicate in English.  lah!
              \_ Administrators aren't teachers.  They have a different skill
                 set.  Did you ever think of that?
                 \_ hah!  I knew you were the type.  He is required by law to
                    pass the test.  He is *supposed* to be more edjumakated
                    than the teachers he was firing.  Maybe the teachers were
                    foreign born so it's unfair to ask someone teaching 12th
                    grade to pass a 10th grade test.  Ever think of that?
                 \_ You have to have a teaching credential to get an
        \_ I find paper and pencil best.  Programs get you all distracted by how
           to draw bubbles/linkages, etc.
                    administrative (teaching) credential. those who can, do.
                    those who can't teach. those who can't teach, administer.
                    \_ Hey!  Stop bringing facts into this!  No fair!
        \_ I find paper and pencil best.  Programs get you all distracted by
           how to draw bubbles/linkages, etc.
2003/8/24-25 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:29453 Activity:high
8/23    what's really at stake in iraq:
        \_ NYTimes?  With their track record the last few years, you might as
           well post something from the National Enquirer.  (I didn't read the
           link because it doesn't matter what the NYT publishes anymore)
           \_ So you're sticking to reputable, unbiased sources like
              Washington Times and Fox News then, I'm assuming.  Fair
              and balanced!
              \_ Actually with people like Thomas Friedman and Judith Miller
                 writing for them the NYTimescan feel like Fox or the
                 Moonie Times sometimes.  Just that no one ever calls the
                 NYTimes on their bullshit.
                 \_ That's a decently written editorial with some interesting
                    points, which, whether you agree with him or not, are
                    well-argued and well-presented.  Regarding the Fox news
                    comparison, do you rate news sources for the opinions they
                    present, or for how they present them?  I don't know about
                    you, but I'm more interested in a persuasive, eloquent
                    argument that I disagree with, than a rah-rah piece of
                    demagoguery that meshes with my own opinions... -John
                    \_ Fox TV sounds *exactly* like the NYT to me.  It's just
                       from the opposing view and they don't take themselves
                       so gravely seriously like the NYT does for some
                       mysterious reason.  Oh yeah, Fox hasn't yet been busted
                       with multiple flat out ficticious "news reports" unlike
                       the NYT.  I can read opinion on the net without the NYT
                       filter tainting it.
                        \_ Well ain't it just peachy then that you have the god-
                           given right to choose your own news sources.  In any
                           case, that's not a news article, it is an op-ed
                           piece.  And good luck finding something completely
                           unbiased--if you're not consuming news with a grain
                           of salt, you've losing out regardless.  -John
        \_ Summary: Iraq is about culture, but we can't say that because it
           doesn't play well on TV.  It's an important war to win, on human
           rights grounds alone.  But Bush has handled this so idiotically--
           alienating our allies, trying bear the cost alone while cutting
                           accelerated production of nuclear weapons, there
           taxes domestically, and lying outright about the immediate need
           for war-- that we may lose it anyway.
                \_ Exactly which allies are those? France, who considers
                   Iraq their client state?  Germany, who sold
                   Iran their gas centrifuge technology and continually
                   insulted the President for domestic political gain?
                   Russia and China which remain Communist states?  Please
                   do explain yourself.
                   \_ I was going to explain how stupid this person was and
                      then I saw the he claims Russia is still a Communist
                      state and realized he has already done my work for me.
                           \_ All of the same apparitchik remain in power,
                           the KGB still exists, Putin is KGB, Russia has
                           accelerated R&D of nuclear weapons, there
                           is no free press, etc. etc.  To repeat, the same
                           elite holds power but they call themselves something
                           else.  I'd trust the judgement of leaders of
                           former eastern bloc countries than yours.
                  \_ How about China? It is a mirror opposite of Russia.
                     Same party, same people in power, but they've moved to
                     market economy since mid 1980's.  and you call China a
                     Communist state?
                     \_ I think China is going for a kind of nationalist
                        unification of big business and government, which
                        is what people call fascism.
                     \_ China's 'aspirations' for political and economic
                        freedom are transparent in its client state
                        North Korea.
                     \_ They haven't moved to a market economy.  They have
                        some of the highest barriers to entry in the world.
                        The whole thing is a giant state owned business.  Can
                        I get some of that shit you're smoking?
2003/8/24-25 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:29454 Activity:high
8/23    I hate polls that don't say who or how many people were called, what
        time of day/days, and if they were registered or likely voters or not.
        This sort of poll publishing 'technique' just turns the article into
        political propaganda and does nothing to inform.  I'd *really* like to
        see the questions asked to see if they were push-polling too.
        \_ Here's the PDF that has all the info that you want - I believe
           the AJC was quoting this LA times poll.  Doesn't look that pushed
           to me:
           Note the breakdown by voter type, and the questions.
        \_ i once got a call from a polster who asked some really loaded
           idiotic questions.  i told him his questions were full of shit
           and refused to answer them on that basis.  i made the guys day.
           he agreed it was totally loaded and said i was the first person
           he'd called who had called him on it.
           \_ why do I not believe you?
              \_ why would i make the story up?  the guy who actually
                 calls you is just some random guy doing a shit job.
              \_ It's common.  I've been push polled before and had a similar
                 conversation.  Similar to telemarketers, they're just paid to
                        \_ All of the same apparitchik remain in power,
                           the KGB still exists, Putin is KGB, Russia has
                           accelerated production of nuclear weapons, there
                           is no free press, etc. etc.  I think I'd trust
                           the judgement of leaders of eastern bloc countries
                           than yours.
                 go down a list and ask random useless questions which will be
                 used later to further their client's political agenda.  They
                 don't care and don't have to.
                 \_ except I've known people who do telemarketing and they've
                    said people who digress from the script get fired fast.
                    \_ There seems to be a little more lee-way for pollsters--
                       I had a very similar conversation this past week.
                    \_ I said similar, not the exact same.  ie: they don't care
                       about the product or poll they're calling you about.
2003/8/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:29455 Activity:high
8/23    Illegals busting education budget
        \_ Or illegals are picking farmer's produce and getting paid
           squat, so farmers and everyone else up the food chain get
           paid lots of $$$ except those at the very bottom. Same goes
           for construction, restaurants, etc. In short, illegals are
           good for doing jobs that no one else wants to do, and also
           for scapegoating during hard economic times. The business
           community will never stand for stopping illegal immigration
           because they will never find americans to work the fields,
           clean offices at night, and wash dishes for minimum wage. So
           scapegoat all you want, but illegals and those at the bottom
           are indispensible to businesses and the profits that they
           generate. You directly benefit because costs for your restaurant
           meal are lower, food from the grocery stores are lower, etc.
           \_ you wish.  take a look around.  when the only jobs left in
              america for someone without a fancy pants education like we have
              are retail, janitorial, and farm jobs americans will be
              fighting for the janitorial and farm jobs.  it beats retail.
              welcome to the newest third world country.
           \__ So you are telling me we need 11 million illegal farm
               workers in addition to the 20+ million who have been given
               amnesty in the past 20 years?   Exactly how large of an
               underclass do you want to create - because they are not
               assimilating.  Graduation rates from high school are <30%.
               When does it stop - should we import all of latin america
               to be our slave labor?  Teenagers or blue
               collar workers used to perform these tasks, and still would
               if given the opportunity.  How do you know I benefit?  Is this
               hearsay - the National Academy of Sciences says we pay
               tens of thousands to each illegal over their lifetime.  The real
               price of meat and produce has not fallen, neither has the cost
               of living.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:August:24 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>