Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:June:17 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2003/6/17-18 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:28740 Activity:high
6/17    Anyone have any experience with StarOffice 6?  I am sick to death
        both of MSOffice, and of StarOffice 5.2 munging macros and formatting.
        Neither koffice nor OpenOffice do a better job.  And yes, I do
        occasionally need to work on word docs.  -John
        \_ obED!
        \_ soffice 6 sucks on Linux/*BSD/Solaris. It is slow, unresponsive,
           and frequently screws up word conversions (esp. those with
           custom styles, macros and revision history). If you just need
           to read the occasional word doc and you don't mind that the
           converted versions looks like shit soffice is okay otherwise
           you are stuck with M$ Office.
                \_ Funny, SO5 already filled all those criteria.  Thanks for
                   the honest appraisal, though.  -John
        \_ err... what is the differences between StarOffice and OpenOffice?
           \_ think netscape 7 versus mozilla
              \_ thought so.  If that is the case, why would anyone,
                 as an individual, choose Staroffice over OpenOffice?
                                -Mozilla / Firebird user
                 \_ If the individual is not a technical guru, the
                    1-800 number tech support instead of usenet/mailing
                    lists is a big plus.  There's also a couple of features
                    in SO but not OO, such as some of the spell checking
                    dictionaries and the database for their MS Access
                    clone.
                    \_ funny thing is, last time I checked, there is no
                        1-800 number on MS office neither.  In fact,
                        I don't recall any of MS products has tech support
                        :)
                        \_ In Office X there is a button labeled 'Tech
                           Support' that brings up contact info for M$
                           tech support. In case you wanted to call them
                           the numbers are:
                           Standard Support: U.S. (425) 454-2030
                           Paid Support: (800) 936-5700
                           \_ standard support?  "Please dial 800-936-5700
                              for further support!  Thank you for calling
                              Microsoft's Standard Support Hotline!"
2003/6/17 [Health/Women, Health/Disease/General] UID:28741 Activity:very high
6/16    Socialized medicine: The fix is in
        http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33110
        Younger workers will be paying for this.
        \_ If people exercised and ate healthier food, we wouldn't
           have such extreme health care costs.
           \_ No.  You couldn't be more wrong.  Costs spiral due to insurance,
              lawsuits, and endless medical tests to avoid lawsuits.  If we
              were all as fit and healthy as you costs wouldn't be any lower.
        \_ I admit, it all sounds reasonable, until you remember that you're
           reading WorldNetDaily, a publication that thinks that Hitler was
           a Leftie, and that McCarthy was soft on those commies.  Grain of
           salt with that diatribe?
           \_ What publications are we allowed to read?  What is on the PC
              list this week?
2003/6/17 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:28742 Activity:high
6/16    Business Owner Chases, Runs Over Robbery Suspects In Hummer
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/930181/posts
        \_ that was the busineess owner.  what sucks is when you're just
           an employee with a shitty car and the manager busts your balls
           for not engaging a shoplifter in a high speed chase. this actually
           happened to my brother in law.  apparently someone else in the
           company ran over a shoplifter in the parking lot with his car and
           management felt this was a good idea.
        \_ Now that is a good use of the Free Republic website. -motd liberal
        \_ If everyone in the store was armed the criminals wouldn't have
           tried this shit in the first place.  Now these lowlifes are going
           to press criminal *and* civil charges and the owner will be in jail
           and owe each criminal a zillion dollars.
           \_ Until they hit their first civie accidentally, or the robbers
              come in with their own guns. Then the price goes up and the
              zillions of bucks start flowing.
              \_ When everyone is armed there are no civilians.  That's the
                 point.  And in this case if you had bothered to read the link
                 instead of knee jerking, they were armed.
2003/6/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28743 Activity:moderate
6/16    Last question on Israeli/Palestinian issue.  This is a question
        for those who are in support of Israel:
        One of the justification for the Israel is that it is a land promised
        by God.  However, based upon my limited knowledge, God has promised
        a land which is a lot a lot bigger than the current Israel even if
        Westbank AND Gaza Strip are included.  My question is 1.  Are
        majority of Israeli desire to claim the rest of the promised land
        eventually?  2.  For those American / American Jews who support of
        Israel, would you support Israel if Israel use this as an excuse
        initiate invasion of, let say Jordan, Syria and other neighbors so
        the promise in the Bible can be fulfilled?
          \_ I would imagine that a vast majority of Israelis do not have the
             extreme viewpoint of the whole Promised Land justification.
             They just want peace.
        \_ TROLL!
        \_ I would imagine that a vast majority of Israelis do not have the
           extreme viewpoint of the whole Promised Land justification.
           They just want peace.
        \_ TROLL!
        \_ Cmon now. Like any faith they will interpret or ignore the facts
           to fit their 'word of God'. 1. No, the settler types are few,
           maybe just over 100k, and are viewed as fringe. Israel is a very
           secular country on many levels, don't make the mistake of
           thinking that Israel's "jewishness" is all about religion --
           jewishness is a complex mix of ethnicity, culture, and religion.
           Most Israelis are not religious. 2. Learn English. --aaron
           \_ You are down playing the role of religion on this.  Hate
              to say this, but the way Israeli evicting Palestinians are
              pretty similar to the way Nazi evictings Jews just a decade
              earlier. Their main "justification" for it *IS* that it is
              "THEIR" land promoised by GOD.  Further, if religion is not
              an issue, then, why Israel want Jerusalem so bad?
                                        -- OP
                \_ You know, it's sad enough already that Godwin's Law
                   pops up so often, but it's even more pathetic when people
                   start trolling just for the sake of starting an argument
                   in which they can (yet again, sigh) prove it.  -John
        \_ TROLL!
2003/6/17 [Computer/HW/IO] UID:28744 Activity:high
6/16    anyone using a good ergonomic mouse?  I'm looking for something to
        reduce wrist pain. [moved up to it's own topic by !op]
        \_ for future reference: its, not it's. -grammer [sic] god
        \_ I've been using Kensington Expert Mouse trackballs for years with
           out *any* pain.  Costs about $100, has 5 year hardware support from
           Kensington.  I couldn't live without it.  Note that they do not
           advertise it as an ergonomic device.  Ergnomics is a nonsense pseudo
           science.  You have to find something that works for you.
                \_ Kensington trackballs are superb.  However, I've found that
                   with the expert mouse 5 and friends, the connection between
                   cord and mouse is a bit shoddy, and the wheels tend to
                   gum up pretty frustratingly.  Otherwise they are
                   very good (but pricey)  -John
                   \_ I've been using one version or another for many many
                      years.  However long Kensington has been doing consumer
                      trackballs.  Yes, they can get gummy.  I just flip it and
                      blow out the dust once a day.  That's enough to keep it
                      from getting all gummed up.  I had trouble with the
                      version 4 mouse connector and they sent me a new one
                      without questions.  My v5 has been fine.
        \_ I was looking into using a wacom tablet or a 3M mouse designed to
           reduce wrist movement.  Anyone have any experience with these?
           \_ I used a wacom tablet for a while to reduce wrist movement.
              It's nice, especially if you do a lot of mouse work or even
              web surfing.  It's not as useful if you switch between kb
              and mouse often.
        \_ Often it's the mouse setup, not the moust that's most important.  I
        \_ Often it's the mouse setup, not the mouse that's most important.  I
           have a mouse on each side of the keyboard (a symmetric one for the
           left hand, a right-handed one on the right).  The mouse is right next
           to the keyboard (at the same height--that's very important).  And my
           preferred editor is Vim, so I don't need to use the mouse very much
           anyway. -emarkp
        \_ it will all depend upon what do you mean by "ergonomic."  I hurt
           my hand because i used index finger too much.  I end up using
           a product called "anir mouse."  It is an odd-looking mouse that
           shaped like a joystick.  It will take about a day or two to get
           used to, but it's the best mouse I've ever used.   Having said
           that, I agree with post above.  I usually try to use keyboard
           as much as I can myself.  More questions, email me
                                        -kngharv
           \_ I don't mean to pry, but how did using your index finger too
              much hurt your hand?  Muscle strain?
              \_ Putting it in the wrong place.
2003/6/17 [Uncategorized] UID:28745 Activity:nil
6/18    Is there a way to make a reference to several consecutive
        items in your bibliography in LaTeX, like this: [1-5] ?
        I'm trying \cite{ref1 -- ref5} but it doesn't work. Thanks.
        \_ \usepackage{cite}. Then \cite{ref1,ref2,ref3,ref4,ref5} just
           like usual. (It also puts your refs in numerical order if
           necessary, as well it should.) Piece o cake.
                \_ Cool, thank you.
2003/6/17 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28746 Activity:high 73%like:28752
6/18    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030616/ap_on_re_as/japan_us_military_10
        Yet another american soldier raping the local population. If our
        soldiers are raping allied civilians, what do you think they're doing
        to Iraqi women?
        \_ Buying them cheap. The starving and hopeless give the best bang for
           the buck.
        \_ the main issue is that US Military is pretty much immued to
           the local jurisdiction.  And that USA tend to be very protective
           of her own subjects.   This is nothing new.  A century ago,
           British nationals could pretty much get away with anything in
           China for the same reason.
2003/6/17 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28747 Activity:nil
6/16    Last question on Israeli/Palestinian issue.  This is a question
        \_ Hah! Haha!  Hahaha!
        for those who are in support of Israel:
        One of the justification for the Israel is that it is a land promised
        by God.  However, based upon my limited knowledge, God has promised
        a land which is a lot a lot bigger than the current Israel even if
        Westbank AND Gaza Strip are included.  My question is 1.  Are
        majority of Israeli desire to claim the rest of the promised land
        eventually?  2.  For those American / American Jews who support of
        Israel, would you support Israel if Israel use this as an excuse
        initiate invasion of, let say Jordan, Syria and other neighbors so
        the promise in the Bible can be fulfilled?
        \_ TROLL!
        \_ I would imagine that a vast majority of Israelis do not have the
           extreme viewpoint of the whole Promised Land justification.
           They just want peace.
        \_ TROLL!
        \_ Cmon now. Like any faith they will interpret or ignore the facts
           to fit their 'word of God'. 1. No, the settler types are few,
           maybe just over 100k, and are viewed as fringe. Israel is a very
           secular country on many levels, don't make the mistake of
           thinking that Israel's "jewishness" is all about religion --
           jewishness is a complex mix of ethnicity, culture, and religion.
           Most Israelis are not religious. 2. Learn English. --aaron
           \_ You are down playing the role of religion on this.  Hate
              to say this, but the way Israeli evicting Palestinians are
              pretty similar to the way Nazi evictings Jews just a decade
              earlier. Their main "justification" for it *IS* that it is
              "THEIR" land promoised by GOD.  Further, if religion is not
              an issue, then, why Israel want Jerusalem so bad?
                                        -- OP
                \_ You know, it's sad enough already that Godwin's Law
                   pops up so often, but it's even more pathetic when people
                   start trolling just for the sake of starting an argument
                   in which they can (yet again, sigh) prove it.  -John
        \_ TROLL!
2003/6/17-18 [Finance/Investment] UID:28748 Activity:very high
6/17    I know the .com days of ugrads trading on etrade are long dead, but
        I haven't heard any economy stuff on the motd these days... so...
        what are the predictions on the DOW hitting 10,000? if, and when?
        also, is that a good or bad sign?
        \_ As long as Bush is in office, we are f*cked.
           \_ why?
              \_ economic policy based upon benefiting small group of
                 people which is politically important (read: farm bills,
                 steel tariff, lift estate tax and reduce stock dividends,
                 you name them); lavish military spending (Afghanistan,
                 Iraq), and shows no fiscal discipline... for starters.

                 \_ and this is new to this administration?  hi idiot!
                        \_ well it is more extreme.  Bush's budget has
                           planned for record deficts.  Almost 1.5 times
                           as high in 2003 dollars as the last record defict
                 market.  look for small, midcap, low pe, low ps, some growth for
                 decent peg, little or no debt, no big worries like
                 market.  I look for small, midcap, low pe, low ps, some growth
                 for decent peg, little or no debt, no big worries like
                 headache walmart giving to supermarket stocks, price at
                 least 25% lower than yahoo minimum 1-year target ... get
                 some good stuff out here.
                           that was created by... yup that's right, his dad.
                           Funny how the democrats are the party of responsible
                 some good stuff out here.  among the stuff above, still like
                           spending these days.
                           \_ No, they just raise taxes endlessly to pay for
                              the votes they need to buy to stay in office and
                              keep the poor dependent on government.
                              \_ Here are stats even a neocon can understand:
                 market.  I look for small, midcap, low pe, low ps, some
                 growth for decent peg, little or no debt, no big worries
                 like headache walmart giving to supermarket stocks, price
                 at least 25% lower than yahoo minimum 1-year target ... get
                                 http://csua.org/u/3a9
                                 Democrats have decreased the size of the
                                 government, Pugs increased it for the last
                                 five presidents.
              \_ because no matter how well or poorly the economy does, the
                 "we are f*cked" person is so deeply entrenched in their
                 own hatred they can't believe anything else.  the comment
                 has nothing to do with the economy but with irrationally
                 deep personal political philosophy.
                 \_ Nonetheless, we are still f*cked.
                    \_ *laugh* whatever.
        \_ I don't know about economy, but I've been making a killing in the
                 some good stuff out there.  among the stuff above, still like
           stock market. like 80% return since last october.  It's as good as
           ever.
           \_ how do you do that? derivatives?
              [ kinney's drivel deleted]
              \_ just pick the right stocks, and you don't even have to go
                 into those high risk stocks, just all your basic boring
                 value stocks like best buy, helen of troy, american eagle,
                 fossil, blue rhino, netbank ... ok ... a bit of tech like
                 nvidia, utstarcomm and gric.  basic idea of last october
                 is find boring safe stocks that has good value and no
                 downside as alternative to hopelessly low rates of money
                 market.  I look for small, midcap, low pe, low ps, some growth
                 for decent peg, little or no debt, no big worries like
                 headache walmart giving to supermarket stocks, price at
                 least 25% lower than yahoo minimum 1-year target ... get
                 some ideas from smartmoney magazine.  now is a little harder
                 cause things are more expensive but I think there are still
                 some good stuff out here.  among the stuff above, still like
                 and hold hele, rino, ntbk, tkci, fosl and utsi (I like utsi,
                 started by berkeley alumni, for the long term.  it's a
                 telecom stock doing well in the worst telecom slump ever).
                 \_ there's no such thing as a 'no downside' stock.  the
                    stock market always has risks.  maybe martha's company
                    was looking real good for a while, eh?
                        \_ you're an idiot.
                           \_ thanks for adding nothing to this thread.
                \_ My portfolio is up 50% over the last 6 months.  Of course
                        it's 100% SUNW, so it's also down 80% from a couple
                        of years ago.  It's all just numbers you can spin any
                        way you want.
                        \_ Down 80% means you lack discipline in your
                           investing.  You won't ever see warren buffett
                           down 80%.
2003/6/17-18 [Computer/HW/Drives, Computer/Companies/Apple] UID:28749 Activity:nil
6/17    I've got some old 3.5" Apple ][ disks that I'd like to read.  I
        remember that old Macs (SE, LCII, etc.)  could read Apple ][ disks,
        but I haven't been able to find any.  Anyone know where I can find
        one to use for a few minutes?  Thanks.  -- mikeym
        \_ Same question applies for 5.25 ][e disks -!op
        \_ maybe weirdstuff?  probably sell you one for next to nothing.
2003/6/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:28750 Activity:nil
6/18    Hillary is getting the full Lewinsky:
        http://www.msnbc.com/news/927756.asp?0cl=c1&cp1=1
        \_ "According to the survey, 63% of Democratic voters want Clinton to
            run for the 2004 Democratic nomination, while a whopping 100% of
            Republicans want her to do so."
2003/6/17-18 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:28751 Activity:nil
6/18    How does the transfer rate of a 4x DVD drive compare to a 4x CD drive?
        \_ The 4x DVD is faster.
        \_ in terms of raw KB/s, multiply the DVD speed by 9 to get CD speed
           \_ Thanks
2003/6/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:28752 Activity:nil 73%like:28746
6/18    http://csua.org/u/39y
        Yet another american soldier raping the local population. If our
        soldiers are raping allied civilians, what do you think they're doing
        to Iraqi women?
        \_ Buying them cheap. The starving and hopeless give the best bang for
           the buck.
        \_ the main issue is that US Military is pretty much immued to
           the local jurisdiction.  And that USA tend to be very protective
           of her own subjects.   This is nothing new.  A century ago,
           British nationals could pretty much get away with anything in
           China for the same reason.
           \_ Damn!  I wish I could be immued to the local jurisdiction!
           \_ Nonsense.  You seriously want our soldiers to be subject to the
              concept of 'justice' that exists in the many places we send our
              troops?  That's so naive and childish a concept it borders on
              the infantile.  If you want to avoid US Soldier/Local Civilian
              problems, the only way is to not have our soldiers in other
              countries.  The end results of that could be far far worse than
              the once per 4 years rape that happens.  If you were truly
              concerned about the locals around the world, you'd be screaming
              everyday about the UN boys from other countries that are
              actively and openly engaged in the sex slave trade buying,
              selling, and raping the same women they're sent there to protect.
              \_ US troops are hugely involved in the local sex trade, too.
                 Have you ever been to a military base overseas, or even
                 in the US? The nearest town is almost always full of
                 prostitution. It is hypocritical to condemn the UN
                 soldiers of doing this while ignoring the fact that
                 the US does the same thing. -veteran
                 \_ There is also a problem with sexual assault/rape
                    within the armed forces, and fraternization, too.
                    -veteran#2
                 \_ It would be better if the US soldiers weren't customers
                    but our officers are not actively engaged in buying,
                    selling, and moving women around the world.  You're trying
                    to make some sort of moral equivalency which doesn't
                    exist.  Example: a pot smoker in Berkeley is *not* the
                    same level of criminal as the grower moving a few tons of
                    pot every year.  Both are criminals but one would get a
                    small fine at worst while the other would get big time at
                    the big house.  (insert your drug of choice in that)
                    \_ And the US tends to cover up those nasty rumors about
                       permitting military contractors to have child sex slaves.
                http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/163052.html
                    \_ True enough. While visiting prostitues certainly
                       creates the demand for the sex trade, it is not
                       the same kind of crime as actually running it. -veteran
              \_ Flapdoodle.  There's no need to make this an either-or
                 proposition.  Improve the process by which these cases
                 are reviewed by military tribunal, and hand over suspects
                 in non-frivolous, evidence-supported cases.  This will
                 protect the troops from malicious and baseless accusations
                 and still address real problems.
                 \_ Ok, let's say a US soldier is involved in an evidence
                    supported case in Pakistan.  You're going to turn that guy
                    over to the mullahs running the northwest province under
                    shariah islamic laws?  Why don't you just do him a favor
                    and put him in front of a firing squad instead?
                    \_ Hey, if you do the crime in a foreign country, you
                       get to face the consequences of your actions.  That
                       said, we could even modify the process to weed out
                       crimes for which we have no analog here in the US
                       and (like Mexico) refuse to extradite criminals if
                       we believe the expected punishment will be cruel and
                       unusual by our standards.  There's a lot of room to
                       work with here.
                       \_ The difference is that a soldier doesn't have any
                          choice about going to some third world shit hole with
                          brutal laws and no justice.  As a civilian I can
                          choose to not be subjected to that by simply not
                          booking the flight.  Soldiers go where they're told
                          to go.  They should be subject to the US code of
                          military justice.  That's why it exists.  I'm not in
                          any way saying rape is ok or that our guys shouldn't
                          get punished for it.  I'm saying they should be
                          consistently subject to the same code no matter where
                          they might be assigned.
                          \_ We have a draft again?  Oh whoops, it's all
                             volunteers.  And last I checked, I was able to
                             contain my hormones enough to not rape anyone.
                             Bring 'em all home, stop wasting my dough.  -John
        \_ My country Singapore is the smartest.  We let US have small base
           in Singapore in case commie China turn into big bad wolf.  US
           has no better choice since getting kicked out of Pilipines.
           Also, we tell US to follow local jurisdiction just like Michael
           Fay.  Small little red light district in Geylang for horny US
           GIs, but no mischief or arse gets cane.  Neighborhood bullies
           like Malaysia and Indonesia also don't dare to cause mischief
           with US base in Spore.  By the way, we detained like 10 terrorists
           without trial over the years.   US beat us by detaining 762 in
           Guatanamo Bay.  Poor GIs in boring Geyland with ugly spore girls
           must miss Olongapo bad.
           \_ LAH!
           \_ Guatmo.. A lovely place. Females staying there are advised upon
              arriving to lock their doors and keep a loaded firearm nearby
              because the US marines and navy boys tend to get a little wild.
              I've had female friends talk about being woken up in the middle
              of the night as drunken sailors and marines attempted to knock
              down their door for a little unrequested R&R.
              \_ I'm sure they're willing to pay after.  What's the problem?
                 \_ Yermom keeps wanting more than the $5 she's worth.
2003/6/17-18 [Uncategorized] UID:28753 Activity:moderate 54%like:28720
6/17    John's Link of the Day
        http://www.livejournal.com/community/linux/397771.html?thread= \
        2531787#t2531787
        \_ http://csua.org/u/3a1 shortened via http://csua.org/u
        \_ All your OS are belong to us.
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:June:17 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>