Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:April:22 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2003/4/22 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:28184 Activity:insanely high
4/21    Further evidence of how fucked up California, in
        particular SF, has become (a multicultural utopia).
        Bill would force hiring of cross-dressers
        \_ and the Klan has to hire them black people to do their organizing!
        \_ No bible shop is complete without a flaming queen cross dresser.
        \_ If you don't like California so much, why not move to a place more
           to your liking?  I hear they kick some faggot ass up in Laramie,
           \_ Funny how when the other side says to folks, "America, love it
              or leave it", you lefties get upset but it's ok for you to
              blather out little lines like that.
              \_ Because "Love it or leave it" has an implicit threat.  His
                 question is formed as just that.  A question.
                \_ good point!
                   \_ I know you are but what am I?
                      \_ A hypocrite if you're a "California, love it or
                         leave it!" leftist.
                         \_ I also love how you completely missed the
                            reference to Matthew Shepard.
                            \_ I didn't miss it.  I ignored it because it was
                               meaningless in this context.  It may come as a
                               shock to you but some people who don't share
                               your politics read newspapers and watch cnn.
        \_ You don't know jack shit about what was here before 1960.
           Read a little history. This place has been a little different
           since the first tent went up in Yerba Buena. Of course straight
           idiots have decorated it from time to time.
           -- born here, been here.
           \_ actually that's not true.
                \_ You have no sense of history.  Kerouac and the rest of
                   the beatniks (a term coined by Herb Caen) were here in
                   the 50's, and were attracted to the area by its alternative
                   culture.  -tom
                   \_ Ding!  Indeed.  Also, read up on the suffrage movement,
                      the hallucinigen researchers in the 30's and 40's, etc.
                      My family has lived here since well before the turn of
                      the century.  California has always been "progressive",
                      though I think a better term is "tolerant." --scotsman
                      \_ Really?  Tell that to the natives, the Spanish and
                         the Mexicans.
                         \_ Okay, granted, my use of the term "always" was
                            ill-advised, but this comment is irrelevant to
                            the current discussion. --scotsman
                            \_ Not if you're a native, or Spanish or Mexican.
                               The fact is this state has only been so-called
                               'progressive' if you're part of a big group that
                               has votes, money, power, or some other form of
                               control over the government and media.
        \_ California has been the land of the risk-takers and the eccentric
           since the gold rush in 1849.  For example, Joshua Norton, a failed
           speculator on the rice market, flipped his lid in the 1850s and
           declared himself Norton I, Emperor of the United States and
           Protector of Mexico, becoming the first famous homeless person
           in San Francisco.  Tourists from all over the country knew his
           name.  He minted his own money, dissolved the union in the Civil
           War, and declared there should be a suspension bridge connecting
           Oakland and San Francisco, at the time a ridiculous notion.
           He also was known for stopping a race riot, making him one of
           the earliest Bay Area activists.                     -brain
           \_ The gold-mad and profiteers are a big part of the story, but
              the Mormon settlement Brennan created amidst the Russian
              holdings can't be ignored when trying to understand how we
              found enough stability to keep the region from tearing
              itself apart.
           \_ What does some random insane guy from the 1800s have to do with
              modern politics in CA?
              \_ Not just any random insane guy.  Over 10,000 people attended
                 his funeral.
                 \_ Yes, that still has nothing to do with anything regarding
                    politics in CA in the last century.
                       HAPPENED BEFORE 1900! HISTORY IS A LIE!
                       \_ What's 1900? This is the year "03" and there
                          aren't any non-positive years, right?
                       \_ Idiot, don't put words in my mouth.  I said no such
                          thing and claiming it in ALL CAPS doesn't make it so.
                          The funeral attendance for one insane guy from 150+
                          years ago has *nothing* to do with modern politics in
                          this state.  That is at best a minor footnote in the
                          history of this state.  Why do I respond to such
                          infantile noise anyway?
        \_ They already have laws like this in much of Europe and somehow
           the sky hasn't fallen in there. -ausman
           \_ Really?  Seen the unemployment rate in Germany and many other
              EU countries?  Their economies are wrecked.  Ours is doing
              fantastically well by comparison.  Not only that but we have the
              additional burden of essentially being the EU military.  Let's
              bring the troops home, let the EU defend themselves and see
              what happens.  I bet the sky falls.
                \_ not discriminating against cross dressers leads to
                   the economy falling apart?
                 4-6% are "discouraged" workers, which don't count in
                   \_ Nice try.  Go check the unemployment stats.  I'll explain
                      since you insist on being intentionally stupid: having an
                      endless array of laws that restrict and over control the
                      economy leads to inefficiencies which leads to a poor
                      economy and high unemployment rates.  See the Soviet
                      Union for a great example of what should have been a
                      power house economy collapsing in on itself due to
                      over control and lack of incentive.
                      \_ Hm, I suspect that you're neglecting to take
                         into account that the Soviet Union was a massive
                         military state.  I'd be willing to bet that had more
                         to do with it's complete collapse than 'over control'.
                         \_ The US was also a massive military state during the
                            same period of time.  Yet they collapsed and the
                            US only grew stronger.
                            \_ Not really. I can probably dredge
                               up numbers if you care, but the soviet union
                               was maintaining an active wartime economy
                               for decades.  Compare the relative sizes of
                               the militaries for the US and Soviet Union
                               in the late 80's.  If my memory serves
                               correctly (at least wrt to armor units) the
                               Soviets had NATO outnumbered by a factor of
                               3-1 or something obscene like that.  As a side
                               note, I don't think the US has had a wartime
                               economy since WWII, though I'm probably
                               mistaken.  You might also want to recall that
                               the degree of corruption was obscene and
                               certainly didn't help.
                      \_ cross-dressing laws are like communism? go
                         fucking read atlas shrugged five more tiems or
                         \_ I'm done responding to the intentionally stupid.
                            If you don't have a real response, don't bother.
                            I've been trolled enough by you and have given up
                            trying to draw you into a real conversation on the
              \_ I'll take that bet.
                 \_ If you can get the troops home and get the EU to pay for
                    their own defense I'd vote for you for President and
                    happily concede the bet.
              \_ Don't kid yourself. GDP/hour worked has been increasing
                 faster in Western Europe than in the US for over a
                 generation. They also have more free time, longer,
                 healthier lives and a more even income distribution. The
                 US unemployment figures only look good because 2% of
                 our working age population is in prison and another
                 2-6% are "discouraged" workers, which don't count in
                 the official statistics. Germany and France are running
                 favorable trade surpluses and have a smaller government
                 deficit. I agree with you about bringing the troops
                 in Europe home, though. We cannot afforde to subsidize
                 European defence any longer. -ausman
                 \_ Do you have figures for GDP/hour worked?  Not the rate of
                    increase but the raw value, like $x/1hour?  What's x?
                    Rates aren't that interesting if it'll take 50 years to
                    catch up.
                  \_ Unemployment in Germany in >25% in many areas (e.g.
                     Berlin).  The only commercially viable area is Bavaria.
                     Most of Europe enforces a maximum work week of
                     35-40 hours to keep unemployment down - this is a sign
                     of a strong economy?  French and German
                     pension liabilities are
                     well in excess of their GDPs, and in France between
                     1/3 and 1/2 of all children under 10 are Muslim.
                     Europe is economic powerhouse, indeed.  Their are
                     Muslim slums in France where the police do not ever
                     go, they have lost complete control of these areas.
2003/4/22 [Uncategorized] UID:28185 Activity:very high
4/21    Which helmets are good for long oval shaped heads and which helmets
        are good for round shapes? I've heard that Arai's are good for
        long oval shapes but what about round shapes?
           \_ Arai has helmets for both profiles. STFW.
        \_ shoei?
        \_ try a shoei and an arai..
        \_ Try a tin foil hat.  You'll be fully protected from all the
           dangerous rays.  You can use either helmet type and just fill in
           the spaces with extra foil for added ray protection.
        \_ go to a reputable store -- scuderia comes to mind -- and ask for
           assistance, perhaps a fitting.
           \_ And bring your own foil.  You never know who is behind the
              counter as these places and who they *really* work for!
2003/4/22-23 [Academia/Berkeley/UCSEE] UID:28186 Activity:kinda low
4/21    So what's going to happen to the UCSEE machines?  Are they gone
        \- ucsee is back up. it looks like the are quenching ping replies,
           so that may not be a reliable way to check on it. --psb
           12:49AM  up 1 day, 41 mins, 6 users ...
        \_ they will go on contract with CUSG so jon will have to run them.
           \_ I'll need a UC account fund number for that.
2003/4/22-23 [Uncategorized] UID:28187 Activity:nil
4/22    Can anyone reccomend a free online resource for learning Hindi?
        \_ PSB
2003/4/22-23 [Health/Disease/General] UID:28188 Activity:very high
4/22    I'm in SF a lot and when I'm near some old asian guy who starts
        sneezing (in line, at BART, on a bus, etc) I move away.  Mostly they
        don't bother covering their mouth or turning away, they simply blast
        whatever victim is near by.  Do you think moving away is a good
        safety precaution or am I just being racist?  I'm thinking SARS, too.
        \_ Maybe if they would learn to cover their mouth in Asia and Canada,
           SARS wouldn't be such a big deal.
        \_ if moving away when some asshole is about to sneeze is wrong,
           i don't want to be right. chinese people have all sorts of fucked
           up shit like that. the solution: just wait fort he second
           generation chinese.
           \_ Wait for them to take off their panties!
           \_ dude, learn to capitalize.
        \_ you're not being racist.  I'm chinese and I sure as hell move
           away from anybody coughing or sneezing.  Even before SARS I was
           doing that.  I'm the pro-actively healthy type that haven't been
           sick in like 5 years.  Avoiding crowds and good personal hygine
           are easy things to do.  -good skin guy
           \_ or you might just be gay and have OCD
              \_ personally, I'd bet on OCD
                 \_ what is OCD?
                    \_ what is google?
        \_ yeah dude, I have the same problem. My (2nd gen) asian girlfriend
           is totally hot and clean, but whenever I go over to her parents
           house, I get worried cuz her mom dad and grandma are dirty
           smelly germ-infested FOBs. can't we just breed
           hot asian chicks here in the us? man, the plagues of us nerds
           \_ dude, learn to capitalize.
        \_ I don't know man, you are a sodan, and you are complaining about
           \_ hey man, I keep my PC's cooling fan dust-free ALL THE TIME.
2003/4/22-23 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:28189 Activity:insanely high
4/22    Anyone know a good link that explains all of C++'s use of the
        keyword mconst?
           Search for const in the text box.
           Search for mconst in the text box.
           \- perfection
              \_ The real PSB would know this already.  Wouldn't he?
                 \_ who the hell said i was psb. i'm not. -!psb
                    \_ the \- is a psb thing.
                       \_ only if tailed with "ok tnx." and the spacing has
                          to be foobared.
                          \_ The psb shall do as He pleases!  --psb #1 Fan
        \_ we haven't had a good C++ discussion in a while.  It's time to
           revisit.  Anybody use C++ in a truly object oriented manner?  Does
           true OO even exist outside of the some lame-ass textbook example
           on how the truck class is inherited from the automobile class?
           Every C++ prog I've seen is about encapsulating data (foo->bar = 1)
           and doing function calls (foo->func(1)).  The latest C spec allows
           you to do both.  So what exactly is the point of OO?
                \_ inheritance, virtual funcitons, templates (not really OO)
                   all make life a lot easier.
                        \_ inheritance makes life EASIER!?!
                           have you ever been involved in a
                           big C++ project?
                           \_ my personal, limited experience told me that
                              inheritance is not bad, but multiple-
                              inheritance is pain in the butt (i.e at least
                              our company never managed to used it properly
                              enough to be useful IN THE LONG RUN)
                           \_ He probably knows someone who took a class from
                              BH.  Does that count?
                           \_ yes and yes.  Yes, inheritance can be a headache
                              if used poorly, but so can everything.  Used
                              well, inheritance is a godsend.
                           \_ My current job is a scientific application with a
                              few 100K lines of code.  Fully C++.  Yes,
                              inheritance makes life easier.
                              \_ It's probably a matter of opinion.  But
                                 generally, use composition over
                                 \_ I am so glad I don't work with you.
                                    \_ how do you know you don't?
                                 \_ Are you a total idiot?  Use the right tool
                                    for the right job.
           \_ i think you should read stroustrup 3rd ed and go argue on
2003/4/22-23 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:28190 Activity:high
4/22    Is there a trick that will tell links (the webbrowser) to let me
        highlight/copy text from its window?  It clears the screen when I
        suspend or quit, so that won't work either.
        \_ Hold down shift.
        \_ try some combination of alt+click, like ctrl+alt+click, or
           shift+alt+click, depending on your terminal. WFM.
           \_ solves the problem for me on konsole; thanks much.
        \_ I'd like to know this too.
        \_ not exactly sure what you are asking
           \_ Open up links, search for your favorite quote, song lyrics, or
              poem.  Try to highlight the text in the window to copy paste
              into another file or email or whatever-- unless you're in
              Cygwin it won't work. The best I've come up with is
                F9, Save As foo, Quit, then lynx -dump foo
        \_ This actually depends on the xterm [or whatever terminal emulator or
           terminal] you're using. I just try to use xterms that keep the X
           "selection" (or whatever it's called) until you actually highlight
           something else (even if the selection is not visible any more).
2003/4/22-24 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/Theory] UID:28191 Activity:high
4/22    Data Structure: X,Y,Z coordinates repeated. Same X,Y - different Z
        Ie, multiple surfaces over the same grid. Problem: Want a polynomial
        fit f(X,Y)=Z; save the equation in matrix/vector; then the dump into
        MATLAB. Question: a lot of programs do polynomial fits, but it
        seems to be a pain to save the equation describing f(X,Y). What can
        I use to do a large number of curve fittings and then save the
        polynomical eqn? fab@csua
        \_ If you took CS170 you should know the answer to your own question.
           Hint: it starts with an F, and runs in O(n log n) time.
                \_ Didn't take CS170. Care to provide an answer? The question
                 isn't about curve fitting, it's merely about making
                 your favorite software (Stata, SPSS, MATLAB, etc)
                 produce a friggin' macro/list/whatever. fab
                 \_ The data structure itself can be used to represent the
                    fitted polynomials.  You can transform between a 'set of
                    points' representation and 'set of polynomial coefficients'
                    representation using something called Fast Fourier
                    Transform.  I highly suggest you read up on it, any
                    engineer should know what it is.
                        \_ I'm not an engineer. Sorry to disappoint, but if
                        this is routine, I wouldn't mind paying some undergrad
                        a very modest sum to do this for me. fab@csua
                        \_ Dear fab@csua.  Are you really stupid enough to
                           not realize you just offered someone a very modest
                           sum to do nothing at all?  The whole point of FFT is
                           that your original matrix is a perfectly valid
                           representation of the fitted polynomials.
                           \_ I think it's a reasonable guess that anyone
                              not clever enough to indent motd correctly
                              may not be clever enough to do FFT's.
                    \_ I took 170.  We didn't cover that.  Must be new math.
                \_ Boy, there are a lot of wrong answers here. FFT does
                   NOT fit polinomials to data. It fits discrete complex
                   sinusoids to it. This almost certainly isn't what the
                   person wants. Your belligerence is unwarranted, and
                   surpassed by your ineptitude, mr. fft guy.
                   The op should consider performing the polyfit in MATLAB,
                   instead of worrying about how to dump the result to
                   MATLAB. the polyfit function in matlab does this. Also,
                   I don't understand your question, so what nivra said -ali.
                      \_ this teaches you how to use the FFT to multiply two
                         polynomials. the trick is based on the fact that
                         convolution of the poly coeffs is the same as
                         multiplication of the DFT coeffs. it has nothing
                         to do with polynomial fitting. did you just google
                         for "fft and polynomial" and post the result on
                         the motd? -ali
        \_ I don't get your question.  It seems you're asking for the
           following:  You have n-mesh like 2-D surfaces, you'd like a
           polynomial fit for each surface, resulting in n-sets of polynomial
           equations Z = f(X,Y), You'd like to save all n equations easily.
           Most polynomial fits should give output in terms of coefficients.
           These coefficients form a vector: eg. Ax^2+Bx+Cy^2+Dy+Exy+F.
           You will end up with n sets of coefficeints.  You can save this
           as a big matrix in Matlab.  What's so difficult about this?  If
           you want to do multiple polynomial(2nd order - 10th order) for
           each mesh surface, you run this whole thing 9 times, and get
           1 matrix for each order, with higher order polynomial fits having
           many more vector elements.    -nivra
2003/4/22 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:28192 Activity:high
        California going to run out of money and start handing out IOU's to
        vendors.  Thank God we have Democrats running the state or we'd
        *really* be in trouble!  We need people with guts in office who have
        what it takes to raise taxes without cutting any programs.
        \_Yeah, let's raise taxes, that'll really help... What's the deal
        with Northern Californians anyway, are you guys just stupid or what?
        Get out of your commie state-run mentality. The reason why we're in
        the mess we're in is because of stupid half-assed policies like
        deregulating only half the energy system, having some of the highest
        corporate taxes in the union, and anti-business laws like dissallowing
        drilling off shore completely with no recourse for other income.
        Get back under your anti-war, anti-business, anti-free market rock
        and let someone who has a clue run the state. And for crying out loud,
        stop voting in dumbassess like Pelosi, she should be muzzled and shot.
        \_ Same thing happened back when pete wilson was governor...
           \_ Yeah, good comparison - it was a one-party system back then,
              too. Know the diff betwen slow economic times cuz of cycles and
              one's own stupid decisions.
2003/4/22-23 [Transportation/Motorcycle] UID:28193 Activity:high
4/22    looking for a cheap passenger helmet. HJC or KBC?
        \_ would you stop your motorcyclist trolling?
                \_ no troll is less important than another troll. On motd
                   we value all the trolls as equals and we do not
                   discriminate. We celebrate troll diversity.
        \_ you don't value your passenger's life?
           \_ if he did, he wouldn't have a passenger
        \_ Is there actually any saftey diffrence between the $150 full-face
           HJC and the $400 Shoei or Arai helmet?  They're both Snell approved.
           I've never seen any evidence that there's a significant diffrence
           other than $250 and less comfort with the Shoei.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:April:22 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>