Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:April:15 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2003/4/15 [Recreation/Food] UID:28125 Activity:high
4/14    in re: restaurants: ~psb/Berekeley_Restaurants
        Bongo Burger: reasonable price/performance on the persian burger.
        \_ their fries are awesome.  i just had some.  i want more. - danh
        Fat Slice > Blondies.
        Intermezzo ok if you dont mind the granola, and I dont mean the food.
        Zacharies: do you look like a bitch? If not try Rustica.
        *Grigoire: Lunch often has some good deals. No real place to sit.
                  You can take the food to indian rock or something i guess.
        Oscar: overrated ... just go to fat apple if you want to pay for
               an expensive burger.
        La Note: have not been there in a long time. Previously overrated.
        Nann&Curry: some items pretty good. Better to go with a larger
                    group unless you really like one item. The branch in
                    the 'loin is better. Better deal than BoI.
        Top Dog: overpriced. cook at home.
        Racha Cafe: price/perf is ok also try Sa Wooei on Solano.
        *Kabana on Universty: not bad. Again probably better with 3+ people.
        Barney's etc ... are you really coming from some place that doesnt
                 have an equivalent?
        Ethiopian: the place on irving and 10th or so is the only good
                   ethiopian place i have been to. Above $10/person.
        *Brazil Sandwich Facility: across from ACE Hardware ... not much place
               to sit but the sandwiches are faily uniq and pretty good.
               Try the tritip.
        Higher end: lalime is ass. cafe rouge is pretty good but $$$.
               cesar is overpriced for food ... portions really small.
               for over priced small portions just go to A Cote on college.
               Downtown, also pricey but pretty good.
        *Cheeeboard: uniq, great price perf. weird hours.
        Khanna Peena: a little on the pricier side for indian food but pretty
               good. But all indian restaurants go downhill after opening.
               Raja or Raj whatever near homefinders on university was also
               ok. avoid most other indian places.
        Chinese: i dont claim to be an expert but if you arent looking for
                 something specific, she hua/kirin are good ... about a buck
                 more per dish and smaller portions but quality is good.
        Sushi: pretty much a matter of throwing time/money at the problem
        Vietnamese: if i were visiting from some culinarily impoverished
                    area, i would go to oakland chinatown and get a bunch
                    of vietnamese sandwiches and desserts etc.
        Sandwich: if by berkeley you mean telegraph area ... a couple of the
                  focaccia sandwiches at sufficient grounds arent bad.
        Brunch: rick and annes. lois pie queen for "ambiance".
        Thai Iced Coffee/Tea: Country Cheese Store
        BBQ: flints isnt what it used to be but still the pack leader imho.
        \_ I buy Strada croissants every time in Berkeley, esp. almond and
           chocolate. Theirs are just really good for some reason. --dim
        \_ Raleigh's on Telegraph is not bad
        \_ learn to spell BERKELEY
        \_ Coffee Source > Intermezzo.
        \_ The thing about Ethiopian is food is that basically you eating
           off someone's groin.
           \_ OOoooh, nice one.  I especially like the grammatical error,
              it gave the troll extra power.
                \_ Well everyone is using their hands and mashing it all
                   together.  Where have those hands been?
        \_ Was in town yesterday and had bongo burger for old time's sake. It
           wasn't quite as good as it once was but was still good.  They redid
           the kitchen area since I was last there the grill top is different.
2003/4/15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28126 Activity:very high
4/15    First the national museum, now, the national library.
        And believe me, history will blame USA for this:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2948021.stm
        \_ It wasn't the library at alexandria.  I agree it's a loss but
           it is hardly an earthshaking one.  History may blame anyone
           they want for anything but I know of ~30m Iraqi's who are
           happier free sans old books than enslaved with old books right now.
           Perhaps it would be better to not help anyone who lives near a
           library because, hey, books are more important than people, eh?
           \_ That was a really weak attempt at justifying the American
              forces do nothing while morons burn the Iraq's
              national library, please try again. - danh
           \_ I don't know.  Life in Iraqi still sucks more than pre-sanction
              Iraq.  It may improve, but it's a big hole to climb out of.
           \_ In fact, a good number of those interviewed are saying that
              the same bullies are back in power (Baghdad police), and that
              only Saddam has changed.
              \_ Yes, but they're OUR bullies now. Go Democracy!
2003/4/15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:28127 Activity:very high
4/15    Most people guessed N. Korea, I guessed Iran, I guess we were all
        wrong: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2947571.stm
        \_ Perhaps you missed all the articles yesterday where Bush stated
           flat out that we will not be attacking Syria militarily?  It would
           help if you read news sources that cover all the news, not just the
           news you'd like to read.  I'll be honest.  I'm disappointed that
           you're wrong.  It would be a better, safer world if the current
           Syrian dictatorship was crushed instead of economically prodded in
           the right direction.
           \_ First, provide a link. Second, you have got to be fucking
              kidding me.
           \_ Yeah.  Kill.  Kill!  Destroy!  Maim!  We numbah one!  We the
              greatest country!  YEAH!  KILL!  KILL!
2003/4/15-16 [Industry/Startup] UID:28128 Activity:insanely high
4/15    I'd like to recycle my empty glass bottles of Corona beer, except
        they have lime slices in them? What do i do?
        \- residential level recycling is basically pointless so do whatever
           you want. do you think people carefully sort their newspapers vs
           "other paper"? --psb
           \_ I actually do.
           \_ No longer true.  These days China's cheap labor makes it
              worthwhile.  Big chunk of our waste gets shipped to China
              and comes back as packaging, etc. for products.  See
              recent WSJ article about how an American kid's tossed old
              homework goes to China and back.  Symbiosis of world's
              greatest waste producer and world's greatest low cost
              products manufacturer - global economy at its best.
              \- well while i believe there might be some sucessful
                 residential recycling programs, i bet the vast majority
                 lose money [in the us]. it's places like china and
                 india where *real* reclying happens ... and that is
                 recyling by virtue of reuse. i.e. people use newspaper
                 to wrap fish, they use the glass bottles things come in
                    \_ or to wipe ass. -motd resident russian
                 to store other things. you guys who feel you've done
                 pasta container are ... wel let's just say you should
                 your part for the planet by throwing stuff into the right
                 bin and then driving to create and barrel to buy a $23
                 pasta container are ... well let's just say you should
                 move to marin county and sit in your wildly inefficient
                 hottubs and say shame shame shame about all the SUV
                 drivers. --psb
                 \_ except Aluminum.  The energy cost of processing
                    virgin Aluminum from Bauxite is so huge that it's actually
                    economical to recycle.
                 \_ Partha, do you "stink of righteousness"?
                 \_ Here is the wsj article if you are interested:
                    http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/Newszine/global/5.htm
                    One thing to note is that prices for "corrugated
                    cardboard" can go from $50 to $250 per ton within a
                    few years, so that may determine whether it would be
                    economical to recycle.  Also, "lose money" does not
                    mean no benefit.  For example, I work at a medical
                    equipment company that is losing money.  That doesn't
                    mean our products are not saving lives.  Value is
                    still being added.
                    \_Lose money means not sustainable. Take some basic
                    economics. The dot-com bubble is over. And a recycling
                    system which loses money is bad, because the money
                    has to come from somewhere, i.e. industries which are
                    polluting.
                      \_ Not sustainable, yes.  But losing money doesn't
                         mean you stop working.  Similarly, there is
                         value in spending the effort to recycle even
                         if the company involved is losing money.  The
                         cost (both for the company and for yourself) is
                         mostly labor.  You may find better ways
                         to use the labor, but that doesn't mean the
                         effort is wasted.  Put it another way, when the
                         company is losing money, it may mean that your
                         pay is too high, but it doesn't mean that your
                         effort does not deserve ANY pay.
                         \_ Uhm, dude, look, if your company is losing money,
                            you need to work on your resume.  "Not sustainable"
                            means there won't be a company soon.  I admire your
                            idealism but there's no VC going to come save
                            your ass and keep you in free beer.
                            \_ It's just an example.  It's fictitious, but
                               thanks for your concern.  My real company
                               has been alternately losing money and breaking
                               even, but it is a big fat company that doesn't
                               die easily, and actually just bought another
                               company today.  I may move on soon though since
                               work here has become unrewarding.
                    \_ the medical equipment guy must still be using the
                       "new math" of the "new economy".  Haaa haa.
                    than it is to pay for landfill.
                 \_ Of course recycling is subsidized. But in the long run,
                    it's cheaper to set up recycling and lose money that way
                    than it is to pay for new landfills.
2003/4/15-16 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:28129 Activity:very high
4/14    So I quit my company 2 months ago but I'm still getting paycheck
        from them. I'm pretty sure something's wrong with the accounting.
        I guess it's just a matter of time before they find out. Can they
        legally withdraw money from my account when they find out?
        \_ accepting a paycheck from a job you no longer work at
           is fraud, end of story.  return the money and get on with
           your life.
        \_ Tell the payroll office about it now, and don't be helpful about
           returning the money you have.  You can hope that interdepartmental
           politics will keep payroll from contacting legal and you might get
           to keep it.  The moral thing is something else of course... but
           you did quit, so maybe they screwed you over?  Eh...
        \_ Blow up the accounting office or hack their computers.  Be a MAN!
        \_ of course.  it's their money.
        \_ it depends.  If you're getting paper paychecks then no.  But they
           can sue you for it and will win.  If you're EFT then yes they can.
           Either way, I wouldn't spend the money until they're out of
           business plus a year.
        \_ Why can't the guy quit while he's ahead?  That is, close the
           bank account.
           \_ Because they'll just sue him and he'll lose.  Welcome to the
              world of adults where accountability exists.  Silly rabbit.
        \_ No. BUT... Since you know you're not working for them, any money
           received works as a claim of fraud. Since it's been a couple of
           months and probably a good amount of money recieved, you could be
           charged with embezzlement and felony fraud. Notify the company and
           arrange to return the money. If you withdrew against this money,
           it adds credence to the charges. After two months of getting checks,
           you'll be hard pressed to claim ignorance and proving "good will"
           in notifying the company of the error. Return the dough and hope
           they don't ask for interest back.
        \_ This happened to me and a fellow coworker at Cisco. He told them
           after the first paycheck arrived and they told him to keep it...
           I mailed them after receiving three paychecks (~$5K) and they
           never mailed me back but stopped sending checks. A few months
           later I deposited the checks into a money market account. I didn't
           touch the money for two years. It's been three years since. ymmv.
2003/4/15 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:28130 Activity:very high
4/14    Well, Congress passed the "RAVE act."  More astonishingly dumb policy
        courtesy everyone's favorite idiotic Democrat, Joseph Biden.
        Whatever happened to real libertarians that would make a stink
        about this kind of thing?
        \_ Passed out in the corner with an empty speedball syringe stuck
           in their arm?  In a K-hole? Just a guess.
        \_ Yes! And tell me how raves aren't the same as crack houses?
        \_ If you provided a link to the act or gave us a brief description of
           it then we could decide for ourselves if it was "dumb policy"
           instead of blindly taking your word for it.
                \_ it's on the anti-RAVE act side of things, but
                   go read http://www.drugpolicy.org - danh
2003/4/15 [Uncategorized] UID:28131 Activity:high
4/15    Rodney King caught after weaving thru traffic at 100mph in neighborhood
        and crashing into a house.
        http://csua.org/u/d32 (Yahoo news)
2003/4/15 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:28132 Activity:nil
4/15    http://www.emdef.org/s226/s226_inserted_s151.pdf
        Full text of the "RAVE" act for those that asked.  It was
        snuck into the "Amber alert" law, because it proved so unpopular
        last year that they couldn't pass it.  Essentially it makes
        virtually all concerts illegal by making it a crime to throw an
        event where people are using drugs, even if you take steps to
        ensure that people are not.  Of course, I'm sure selective
        enforcement will ensure that Great White shows will go on.
2003/4/15-16 [Recreation/Media] UID:28133 Activity:very high
4/15    http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/better_luck_tomorrow.html
        Support Asian American independent cinema.  Go watch Better Luck
        Tomorrow!
        \_ Sex and Zen !!!
           \_ Amy Yip is hot!  But I don't know if all the frontal and sideway
              chest shots were really hers.
        \_ It's a marginal movie at best. Ten of us (all Asian-Americans) saw
           it on Sunday, and we all thought, "eh." It's just a darker version
           of a formulaic teen drama.  But then again, it wasn't that bad for
           a shoe-string budget movie.
        \_ Hmm ... Chinese-American indie movie.  Did they show rice-car
           modding?  Wannabe tough/cool?  Stupid Asians?  Smart Asians gone
           bad?  Some killin'?  Then I wanna see it!!!1!
           \_ Kinda. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
           \_ Asians are by definition uncool.
                \_ Keanu Reeves is 1/4 chinese.  Is he cool?
                   \_ Only with the help of bullet dodging FX.
                   \_ http://imdb.com says Reeves' father is part Chinese part
                      Hawaiian.  Where did the last name "Reeves" come from?
                      \_ His mother?  His movie agent?  You think everyone in
                         hollywood is using their given names?  HELLLOOOOO!!!
                         \_ http://imdb.com says his birth name is Keanu Charles
                            Reeves.  Oh, never mind.  It also says "Reeves,
                            whose first name means 'cool breeze over the
                            mountains' in Hawaiian ...".  So I answered my own
                            question.  I guess this Reeves is not the same as
                            the Reeves in some Caucacian.
                   \_ Tiger Woods is half Thai.
                      \_ (1) he is not cool.
                         (2) any coolness he has comes from his black half
                         \_ So you're saying being black is not cool, right?
                            \_ the magnitude of the thai non-coolness is
                               greater than the magnitude of the black
                               coolness.
              \_ That's what Quentin Tarantino thought too.  Then one day
                 he saw canto movies and then went to Peking to make his
                 latest movie.
           \_ "Chinese-American"? Not really.
        \_ Nice!  I am going to watch it.
        \_ Are there asian women with long, beautiful, silky, black hair
           in the movie?
           \_ There's really one only chick, labeled "The Beauty" in the
              movie posters. She's alright... decent looking. But cheerleader
              outfit is a bonus.
                \_ If real asians made this movie they would have put
                   her in a sailor outfit.
                   \_ Real asians huh? http://us.imdb.com/Credits?0280477
                      If that cast and crew isn't real Asian, what is?
                      \_ The ones having cute women dress up in a sailor
                         and schoolgirl outfits.
              \_ Oh Hoyt, I miss him so much sometimes.
                         \_ I think you should just go back to watching your
                            Japanese AV porn.
                            \_ Mmmm... Naughty tentacles.
                      \_ Asian Americans?
           \_ "silky"? is that supposed to be some kind of racist comment?
              \_ Bad troll. Back under the bridge.
        \_ I'd much rather see Bulletproof Monk:
           http://www.apple.com/trailers/mgm/bulletproof_monk
           \_ Isn't this the part where we complain about the evil westerners
              degrading our culture and ripping our religious beliefs out of
              historical context to make yet another mind numbing chop suey
              circus to entertain the white masses to keep them from focussing
              on real problems in society like poverty, the homeless
              situation, unfairly high rental rates in SF, and the endless
              agression of the rich white males who dominate society in their
              quest for oil?  Or something like that.
                \_ no, this is where I complain that Chow Yun Fat, actor
                   in so very many HK movies that I love and hold
                   dear, has been reduced to making films with the guy
                   from "Dude, Where's My Car?" - danh
                \_ You left out the fact that whitey is taking all of our
                   women. Yellow fever is much worse than SARS!
                   \_ I thought we were swapping. Do I have to give mine back?
                      \_ Asian boy got a white girl?  Keep her!  Please!
                \_ We poor white boys are always made the scapegoats!  We are
                   the real victims under reverse discrimination!  Boohoo!
                   \_ You're not with the program, son.  You're off topic.
                      White men oppressing people of color is still the name
                      of the game.  Just because you had higher scores and
                      grades and better letters of rec and the position went
                      to someone else with lower everything only because of
                      their skin color is no reason to complain.  Shut up
                      and stop oppressing everyone.
2003/4/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:28134 Activity:very high
4/15    Couldn't find the link that says we won't be attacking Syria?
        Was <DEAD>www.cnn.com's<DEAD> front page too hard to find?  If you stopped
        reading biased trash that prints only what you want to read you
        might find these things on your own.  It's ridiculous that I'd
        have to actually *tell* you to go to http://cnn.com as a counter point to
        some obscure link from europe.
        \_ are you going to apologize for being such a dumbass if we invade
           syria?
           \_ Sure, right after you apologize for all the anti-Bush, the-world
              -is-doomed/quagmire/terrorism++ noise which all came to nothing
              as usual.
              \_ fine.  I was wrong about alot of things about the recent
                 war, and have changed my outlook accordingly.  In the end
                 I think the actions of the Syrian government will determine
                 wether there is war or not.
              \_ dude, the quagmire/terrorism++ worries are far from over.
                 Just because major media outlets are saying "the war is over
                 we won, neener neener" doesn't mean that serious problems
                 are still not develping.  It will be years before the issue
                 can even begin to be answered one way or the other.
                 \_ NNOOOO!  Do not you inject thought and rationality into
                    this!  Your lack of ad hominem is completely outrageous!1!!
        \_ why did you delete the european link?
           \_ why do you think I did?  I didn't.
              \_ Where is it then? What the hell are you talking about?
        \_ You claimed that Bush said we weren't going to invade Syria.
           http://CNN.com has Colin Powell saying that there are no plans to invade
           Syria. Powell has been wrong before, and he is not Bush.  If you're
           going to post your spew, you can have the decency to back it up
           with a link.  Food for thought:
           http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030421/whumility.html
           \_ I think he said "There are currently no plans to invade Syria."
              A fairly open ended statement.  Easy to update if someone in
              the administration suddenly gets a fire up their ass.
2003/4/15-16 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:28135 Activity:very high
4/15    What is a one-time pad, and why is it considered bad/insufficient
        for security?
        \_ Yeah, why is a one-time pad insufficient?  Snicker. - !OP
         \_ a one-time pad IS insufficent if it is the only thing
            you are using for security.  There better be some intelligent
            system for sharing one-time pads/keeping them secure, etc.
            Stop being an ass.
            \_ So you're saying a one-time pad is insufficient if it is used
               stupidly?  Is there a security protocol that is sufficient
               even if used stupidly?
                \_ I'm saying that used alone it is far from sufficent because
                   there are far too many unresolved issues.
                \_ declaring war on iraq
                \_ which begs the question: if your system is idiot-proof,
                   won't someone just build a better idiot?
        \_ It's an encryption algorithm: to send a (say) 5K message to your
           friend, first generate 5K of random bits (the "pad") and share
           those secretly with your friend.  Then, to send your message,
           just xor each bit with the corresponding bit from the pad.  You
           can't ever reuse pad data; you have to generate new random bits
           for each message you want to send (hence the "one-time").

           This algorithm is cool because it's provably unbreakable: if
           someone sees your encrypted message, but has no information about
           your pad, then it's impossible for them to decrypt your message.
           However, this algorithm is usually not practical, because you have
           to secretly share 5K of pad data for each 5K message you want to
           send.  (For comparison, an ordinary private-key encryption
           algorithm like AES lets you secretly share a small key (128 to
           256 bits) and then use that key to encrypt as much data as you
           want.)
        \_ because you're all being stupid and noone signs their names:
           OTPs are useful for when you have only occasional trustworthy
           contact with your sender/receiver (in-person contact, trusted
           monthly courier ...), and have a need to share relatively short
           messages in a highly secure fashion.
           to respond to some of the points attempted above:
           1) if you have a way to get someone a pad in a secret [trusted]
              way, why not use the same way to transmit the message?
              Because the way you transfer the pad may not be available
              when a message needs to be sent.
           2) if you get part of the pad, you can decrypt part of the message.
              If you get an AES key, which is comparable in size to the
              supposed partial pad, you get the whole message.
           Issues of key management aside (which affect all crypto systems),
           OTP offers the user high confidence at the expense of convenience
           (large, non-reusable keys) and reliance on periodic OTP refreash.
           (large, non-reusable keys) and reliance on periodic OTP refresh.
           --4554660b1f82fae1e048ff6c1874d31b
           \_ I think everyone who cares already knew that, since among
              other things the OTP is about the simplest cryptosystem
              imagineable. you have been trolled.
              \_ only so that I could get the guy below to respond.
                 sometimes you gotta take a troll to get a better troll.
                 --3210615175eaa726402a9001bf8dbc6a
           \_ OTP does not offer high confidence except in highly
              controlled environments because there is no way to
              perform adequate message authentication in OTP:
              1) If the recv'd msg is off by even one bit/char the
                 message won't make any sense. While single bit/char
                 errors might be noticed in the decrypted PT,
                 multi-bit/char errors that can change the content of
                 the message without being detected (this depends on
                 the language, but for things like english the
                 probability of detecting multi-bit/char errors is not
                 that high).
              2) If OTP is used for messages transmitted via a public
                 channel the big problem is that there is no way to
                 ensure that the message you recv'd was transmitted by
                 the person that should have sent it. In some cases
                 an attacker can mount a DOS on the system by tx'ing
                 fake messages.
        \_ Why is it one-time?  Why can't the same pad be used again to
           transmit a different message to the same receiver?
           \_ If a pad is reused, a pattern is formed in the ciphertext
              which can be exploited by an opponent via a Analysis in
              Depth Attack. Some of the venona decodes were the result
              of the Russians reusing the same pad for multiple (different)
              messages.
2003/4/15-16 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:28136 Activity:nil
4/15    Thanks M$, for destroying innovation and stifling creativity.
        Where would we be without you?
        http://news.com.com/2009-1032-995681.html?tag=toc
        \_ Ride Linux!
           \_ haha
2003/4/15-16 [Politics/Foreign] UID:28137 Activity:nil
4/15    "The issue is not a mean one.  It is whether you will be content to
        be a comfortable England, modeled and moulded upon Continental
        principles and meeting in due course an inevitable fate, or whether
        you will be a great country, an imperial country, a country where
        your sons, when they rise, rise to paramount positions, and obtain
        not merely the esteem of their countrymen, but command the respect
        of the world."  - Benjamin Disraeli
        \_ Paraphrased by, um, Hitler, ironically enough, early 1930s
           \_ reference?
        \_ "Ach! Das Alte Juden! Das ist der Mann!"
2003/4/15-16 [Academia/UCLA] UID:28138 Activity:high
4/15    How's bschool/lschool/gschool going for you guys? It's mid April,
        everyone should be getting acceptance/rejection letters by now.
        \_ Haven't gotten kicked out yet...
        \_ headed to UCLA (anderson) in the fall.
        \_ Did UCLA EE guy and USC CS guy ever hook up?
           \_ Yes, and their kids are going to go to UCSC EECS.  Which,
              in that program, I think they teach you how to make bongs
              out of circuit boards.
        \_ Hmm, it's been ten years since I last worried about this stuff.
           Time flies.
2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/24    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:April:15 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>