Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:April:08 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2003/4/8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28025 Activity:high
4/7     Here is a completely absurd question (I know this will never happen
        but..) Imagine that Saddam Hussein and his cabinet of ministers are
        all captured alive. Suppose, that six months later the we still fail
        to find a credible proof that Iraq was producing WMDs. What other
        excuse will our government use then for not reinstating Saddam
        as the president again since he represents the legitimate government
        of Iraq?
        \_ You don't consider finding evidence of biological weapons and
           chemical weapons enough proof of WMD?
           \_ All planted by the US government.
           \_ What evidence? So far everything that has been announced to be
              a "Smoking Gun" eventually turned out to be missilies with
              conventional warheads, or pesticides, or some other non-WMD
              related chemicals. (e.g. http://csua.org/u/c9d
        \_ He was killed while trying to escape, of course.  Or we could just
           release a video of him being some Bubba's bitch in prison.  That
           should fix his political future.
           \_ How about a major blockbuster hit movie in which he is Satan's
              gay lover?  Thank you Trey Parker and Matt Stone.
        \_ Excuse?  So you consider WMD's an excuse (from your use of "other")?
           How about 12 years of UN resolution violations?
           \_ Never proven.  And it would be upto UN to prosecute these.
           \_ I used -excuse- word because the WMD argument was used merely
              as an excuse to start the war. They didn't show us a credible
              proof so far that these weapons exist and if they do whether
              they posess any treat to USA.
           \_ And how long has Israel been violating UN resolutions?
              \_ Oh no! Israel has been brought to the table. Now someone
                 surely will -have- to delete this thread.
        \_ irrelevant since he will be tried for War Crimes ie: Kurds
           \_ American propaganda.  The Kurdish accusation is absurd on its
              face.  There is no proof that chemical weapons were used.
              Even if there were, the proof was manufactured by the
              US and Kurdish traitors.  Besides, the decision to use
              chemical weapons were made at a local level.  And Saddam
              actually thought he was authorizing the spraying of fertilizers
              anyway, and it was an honest mistake that chemical weaponry
              were loaded into the missiles instead.  Besides, Iraq did
              not possess chemical weaponry, so it was impossible it
              was used against the Kurds.  qed.
              \_ The truth is that the much touted "Saddam uses gas
                 on his own people" myth is almost assuredly a lie:
                 http://truthout.org/docs_02/020303C.htm
                 Saddam used mustard gas many times on the Iranians,
                 but that is not really the same thing.
                 \_ And of course, Iraq's actions during that war were
                    done with a full US support and approval.
                    \_ You mean our boy Jimmy who told Saddam he'd have
                       our full support if he invaded Iran?  That support
                       and approval?
                    \_ The US did not approve of Hussein's use of gas.
                 \_ Yep.  Guy citing top secret hush hush US intelligence
                    you-can't-read-them-just-trust-me-what-they-say
                    documents.  Got me convinced.
                    \_ How about these Marine Corp assessments, that
                       say also that it was Iranian, not Iraqi gas?
                       http://fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/docs/3203/appb.pdf
                       \_ On the other hand, here's something more recent:
                          http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm
                          Whether recent means more likely to be slanted by
                          current politics or based on more recent information
                          is of course based on your own prejudices.
                          \_ Here is a very long, well documented, though
                             sometimes overstated summary of the evidence:
                             http://www.mediamonitors.net/robinmiller10.html
                             The Army War College assessment does not
                             disagree with the CIA document above, except
                             in omission. Both say there was a battle, both
                             say Iraq used mustard, but the Army and Marines
                             decided that Iran used blood agent, which caused
                             most of the casualties observed by the foreign
                             press. In any case, the evidence is weak, not
                             the slam dunk it was portrayed in the US press.
        \_ The US government lies all the time to get us to agree to
           dubious wars. GWB is hardly the first:
           http://goatee.net/2003/deadly-deceit.html
2003/4/8 [Uncategorized] UID:28026 Activity:nil
4/7     Is Legolas (in Lord of the Rings) gay?
2003/4/8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28027 Activity:nil
4/7     What is the official Israeli stance on the war?
        \_ Preemptive war and targeted killings without support
           of a world body (in fact, scorn from a substantial number of
           nations) are fine to insure domestic security, especially if
           the other side is associated with suicide bombers.
2003/4/8 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:28028 Activity:high
4/7     Isn't it funny that someone is perfectly ok with being denied entrance
        to a college in favor of people with lower scores, so long as that
        person with lower scores was white?
        http://csua.org/u/c9e (washington post column, free registration, blah
        blah)
        \_ As much as I hate to take the same of the issue as the knee-jerk
           pseduoconservative facists, this author missed the point.  No one
           got points for being white.  People *did* get points for being
           part of a recognized minority group.  The other bonuses had to
           do with things like participation in athletics, student government
           and social service organizations.  None of these, which the single
           exception of the child-of-alumni credit, has a disctinct racial
           correlation slanted towards white people.  Assuming that the
           comfort or discomfort of this applicant had to do with the race
           of the benefactors is both unfair and unwarranted by anything I
           have heard from her.         -liberal lawyer
                \_ Just curious, are you saying motd conservatives are really
                   faux conservatives, faux fascists, or both?  And if so, how
                   can we be real conservatives, fascists, or both in your
                   liberal lawyer view?  --wannabe pseudoconservative fascist
                \_ I imagine you will get far with this insightful pithy legal
                   rhetoric.  Please post your name / affiliation so others
                   might avoid your services.
        \_ White?  I thought it's usually black or Hispanic.
           \_ No, you fail to understand.  See, she didn't sue when she found
              out that she had lost out to a person with lower scores.  That
              didn't bother her when she thought it was due to some other sort
              of desire the college had (for people with diverse socioeconomic
           he did not mention any of the other criterion for getting "points".
              backgrounds, athletes, etc.).  No, she only sued when she found
              out that she had lost out to people who were black.
           \_ Perhaps she was comfortable with a policy that gave extra
              points to applicants' accomplishments and talents
              as opposed to their ancestry.
              \_ Yeah, as long as they were white!
        \_ Current case law:  You can't use quotas, but you can use race as
           a "factor".  20 points for being black out of 150 points is a
           "factor" but not a quota, so it's legal.
             \_ I love people who can't distinguish between a moral discussion
                and a legal one.  (this includes almost all lawyers). Do you
                plan on becoming a lawyer.  'Cause you already have the mind-set.
                \_ obcookie
        \_ No, it's not funny, or even interesting, at all.  I would wager that
           the majority of people who are against race-based affirmative action
           are in favor of socio-economic affirmative action (at the very least
           as a "reasonable compromise").  Socio-economic AA is not racist,
           whereas race-based AA, ipso facto, is.  What *Is* "funny" is that
           he did not mention any of the other criteria for getting "points".
           I can only assume that this is because if he had people would have
           noticed a difference between judging based on those items and judging
           based on race.  As the individual bringing suit may have as well.
           \_ I disagree with your "ipso-facto."  This is opinion, rather than
              \_ I'm not the original author, but I'll defend the use of
                 the term "ipso-facto".  The immediate clause indicates that
                 race based AA is a racist practice.  This is true, whether
                 you find is morally repugnant or morally just.  Perhaps it
                 the difference is that the latter term has a negative
                 connotation whereas the former may not for some.  Be
                 wary when reframing a statement changes your opinion of it.
                 This typically means you are holding conflicting beliefs
                 and could use a little introspection.
                 \_ Sigh... you're bringing harsh facts into this.  Please,
                    stop now before someone learns something and becomes a
                    better person!  Think of the children!
              fact.  Why is it ok for a school to place importance on elements
              of diversity such a culture, heritage, and socio-economic
              background, but not on ethnicity?  Ethnicity in America is the
              very essence of culture.  To say that race "doesn't
              matter" and "has no bearing" when it clearly DOES have a bearing
              is willfully ignorant of life in America.  But that's just my
              opinion.  By the way, the motd conservatives are way too easy
              to troll.
              \_ The problem is you can't just become black to earn these
                 bonus points.  There are lots of poor people irrespective
                 of what color they are, so it's okay to earn points because
                 you're poor.
                 \_ Do it for the children!  Please stop now!
              \_ Got your point smashed to the sharpness of a dull crayon so
                 you decide to claim you were just trolling all along? Uh huh.
                 Like anyone believes that.  Back to rhetoric 1a for you!
2003/4/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28029 Activity:high
4/8     This is what you get for tell people what US of A
        doesn't want you to tell:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2928153.stm
        Call me a cynic, but I think US destroyed Al Jazeera office
        deliberately.
        \_ Ok you're a cynic
           \_ and you're naive.
                \_ Great way to gain credibility for your opinions.  Go around
                   belittling the competence of your opponents by name-calling
                   and questioning their knowledge.  Anyone who disagrees
                   with me is obviously an idiot.  -John
                   \_ cynic sounds right, but naive is mightily persuasive!
                   \_ John, the first was a joke and the second was just an
                      idiot the rest of us chose to ignore.  Why couldn't you?
        \_ And a few French embassies.  And so what?  It isn't for telling
           people what we don't want them to tell.  It's for being lying
           sacks of shit and enemies of our nation.  We bomb our enemies.
           Why is that a big surprise?  Anyway, if they weren't hanging out
           with Iraqi snipers trying to get a good photo or story, they
           wouldn't be getting killed or bombed as often.
           \_ You know, freedom of the press is one of the things that
              foreign oppressed people particularly admire about the
              United States. This tarnishes our reputation a bit,
              don't you think?
              \_ Our press is quite free.  What are you talking about?  If
                 you're concerned about freedom of the press, look at the rest
                 of the non-Western world.
                 \_ What am I talking about? I am saying that deliberately
                    killing journalists makes our comittment to free
                    press look less than sterling. What are you talking
                    about?
                    \_ Who said we deliberately killed journalists?  If we
                       wanted to deliverately murder journalists I think the
                       U.S. marines have proven quite capable of killing
                       anyone they're pointed at.  One or two dead here and
                       there *in a war zone!!!!* is no big surprise.  How many
                       journalists do you think we killed in Dresden?  sheesh.
                \_ freedom of press only applies to people of US Citizenship
                   and people who have no threat to the big brother. Look
                   at MLK, he was assasinated by the big brother.
                   \_ For the people!  Kill whitey!  Death to the Man!  Blame
                      America First!  Yeah!  Down with big brother!
        \_ Um, since when was being a war correspondent a safe and cushy
           job?
           \_ Worked for Wolf Blitzer and they promised to not target any
              civilian areas and we know that being in a war zone as a civvy
              is really safe so it must have been intentional murder.
2003/4/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28030 Activity:high
4/8     Godmother of Baghdad
        http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=7145
        \_ this is from David "American liberals are responsible
           for Stalin murdering millions" Horowitz's website,
           who cares besides that one guy who's always posting
           frontpagemag urls? - danh
           \_ But they are, can't you see? Plus, Hitler was really
              a liberal.
              \_ No.  Hitler was a socialist.  BTW, since you mention Hitler
                 first, you automatically lose.  You lose extra points for
                 not even bothering to accuse someone else of being Hitler.
                 \_ No, I was just trying to get someone to delete this
                    whole idiotic thread. But I think this whole thing is
                    proof that deliberate trolls don't get deleted.
                    \_ RACIST!  HITLERITE!
        \_ from the same site:
           "MOMENT OF TRUTH
            (For the Anti-American Left)
            Every movement has its moment of truth. At an "anti-war"
            teach-in at Columbia last week, Anthropology professor
            Nicholas De Genova told 3,000 students and faculty, "Peace
            is not patriotic"
           In other words, bad troll, no cookie.
        \_ This whole thread is a troll.  Censorbot, ACTIVATE!
2003/4/8-9 [Finance/Investment] UID:28031 Activity:high
4/7     What's a good pointer to sell your time-share? ok thx
        \_ There are time-shares that aren't scams?  First I've heard of it.
           As far as i can tell time shares are always sold at the same kinds
           of seminars where "breakthrough marketing opportunities on the
           internet" are sold.
           \_ There was an article in Smartmoney Magazine (WSJ affliated)
              that tried to make a case that time shares do not totally
              deserve all the bad publicity.  It did mention that it is
              best to buy it second hand rather than directly from one of
              those slippery snake oil salesperson.
              \_ No one buys a timeshare as an investment.
           \_ I would have thought the same, but I know a couple people who
              claim to love having their timeshare. They swap with other
              timeshares in various places. I suppose this is cheaper than
              just booking hotels or whatever in these places.
              \_ Trading credits for other destinations has a fee attached
                 as high as $500/week, or as much as I spend in many places.
                 TSs work if you like a place a lot, and keeping coming
                 back.  I prefer to change it up myself.
              \_ are they really timeshares, or did they just go in
                 with a bunch of friends or aquaintances to buy a
                 shared vacation home?  I've known several people who've
                 been happy with the later, but only suckers who've fallen
                 for the former.
        \_ There is always eBay. If the site is fairly desirable, you can
           also try the rental method. I hear okay things about that.
        \_ Timeshares are like the market in the late 90's.  It's a game of
           selling to the greater fool, except in timeshares, most people are
           smart enough to not buy one in the first place so everyone except
           the original builder loses money.  A good pointer?  Get good fire
           insurance and burn the fucker.
2003/4/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:28032 Activity:low
4/8     What is a good program in FreeBSD to draw flow charts? Thanks.
        \_ xfig?
2003/4/8-9 [Transportation] UID:28033 Activity:high
4/8     I might buy a used vehicle. What's the best way to exchange money?
        Cash is too dangerous. Check takes days to clear. What's a good
        alternative?
        \_ money order/cashier's check.  Duh.
        \_ money order/cashier's check.  Duh.
        \_ money order/cashier's check.  Duh.
        \_ money order/cashier's check.  Duh.
        \_ money order/cashier's check.  Duh.
           \_ I think what he's trying to say is money order or cashier's check
           \_ Just as dangerous as cash.
                \_ depends on how secure you want to be.
                   A money order is less secure than a cashier's check, but
                   a cashier's check is at least if not more secure than
                   a regular check, and clears instantly.
                    \_ some hearsay for your: a friend of a friend allegedly
                       said they got a cashier's check through ebay, cashed
                       it at the bank sent the product, and then the
                       bank came back and said "woops it was a forged check,
                       we are taking the money out of your account.
                       \_ maybe they should try using escrow next time?
        \_ crack.  bring enough crack for the vehicle value.  and a shotgun.
2003/4/8-9 [Uncategorized] UID:28034 Activity:moderate
4/8     Anyone heard of a peer2peer program called Phynd?  Know anyone
        currently running or who once ran a Phynd server at Berkeley?
        Please drop me an email if you do. -dans
        \_ Yeah I read in the news that the RIAA was suing some guys
           who used Phynd $1.5 Trillion dollars.
                \_ not $93T?
                   \_ that would be ridiculous
2003/4/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28035 Activity:very high
4/8     If Saddam has a network of underground tunnels, why aren't special
        ops going through the tunnel system already? (they captured palaces)
        \_ Who says they aren't?  Just because Geraldo and Arnett and Al
           Jazeera are walking around the war zone doesn't mean our special
           ops guys takes them on every mission.  sheesh.  this isn't a movie!
           \_ true that there are special ops possibly going down there.
2003/4/8-9 [Science/GlobalWarming, Recreation/Food] UID:28036 Activity:nil
4/8     geek fiction:
        http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/4/3/19455/41933
        \_ a kur5hin story/bad geek fiction is not more interesting than
           the motd you destroyed.
2003/4/8-9 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:28037 Activity:nil
4/8     Motd restored.  If you're going to remove it, you have a moral
        obligation to replace it with something more interesting.  Your
        comments on how boring the current one is are not more interesting.
        Thank you for playing the Motd Restoration Game!  Play Again(y/N)?__
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:April:08 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>