Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:March:31 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2003/3/31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27916 Activity:high
3/30    Anyone else see/hear/read Peter Arnett's "interview" and "reporting"
        from Baghdad?  Why is this clown still in the air?  He's already been
        bumped down to Nat'l Geo and he still somehow gets airtime.  It's like
        Heraldo except Heraldo knows he isn't a real reporter but Arnett lacks
        this critical bit of self knowledge.
        \_ update: turns out NBC fired his ass and he's apologized as well. -op
           \_ Yeah... but mentioned that what he said is 'something we all know
              about the war.'
              \_ Only if http://arabnews.com and al jazeera is your idea of a source
                 of truth.  Arnett drank the Iraqi PR lemonade.  Afterall, we
                 know from the Iraqi Ministry of Truth that the coalition is
                 losing on all fronts and the brave Iraqi peoples have risen
                 up and killed thousands of Americans and destroyed hundreds
                 of tanks and are pushing the evil USians into the sea!
2003/3/31-4/1 [Reference/BayArea, Academia/Berkeley] UID:27917 Activity:moderate
3/30    Anyone know where I can buy a Berkeley Engineering window sticker
        for my car? If it isn't possible to get them these days, I'd
        settle for an alumni sticker or one of those Cal stickers. tia.
        \_ Try the student union or whatever they call it these days for the
           generic stuff.
           \_ Any place online? I'm a couple of hundred miles from berkeley.
        \_ I got a bunch of them the last time the alumni society was giving
           them out - send me an email, and I'll take a look at home to see
           if I can find them and send you one. -mds
           \_ are these the cal football stickers that go on the helmet?
              I'd pay top dollar for one of those.
              \_ I wasn't aware of football players putting "berkeley
                 engineering" stickers on their helmets, but if you want
                 to pay top dollar for a yellow square and the words
                 "berkeley engineering" in blue, email me!  OP, never
                 heard from you, but I found the stickers, so if you want
                 one send me your mailing address - mds
2003/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27918 Activity:very high
3/30    Can anyone justify the use of the prefix "neo" in the term
        "neo-conservative" that is now heard so often?  isn't the exact
        nature of conservatism always changing, and so isn't it always in
        some sense new?  what's the point of this new term?
                \_ It's actually a fairly old term. It originally denoted
                   a specific group of liberals who had become more
                   conservative over time, but were still liberal on
                   social issues. Irving Kristol is the key example.
                   Now it seems to denote people who are interventionist
                   on foriegn policy but moderate on some domestic issues.
        \_ Knock, knock, Neo.
                \_ It's actually a fairly old term. It originally denoted
                   a specific group of liberals who had become more
                   conservative over time, but were still liberal on
                   social issues. Irving Kristol is the key example.
                   Now it seems to denote people who are interventionist
                   on foriegn policy but moderate on some domestic issues.
           \_ No I'm not Neo.  My name is Thomas Anderson, PhD, Prof. of
              Computer Science, UC Berkeley.
              \_ you are not the OP.  I am the OP.
        \_ no. no. none.
        \_ To make a distinction between "old" conservatives whose platform
           hasn't changed significantly since Reagan and "new" conservatives,
           a small crop that has recently surfaced and espouses a much
           more centrist platform while pursuing hegemonic goals that scare
           old conservatives.  Or something like that.  YMMV.
           \_ Ok, but what's the most confusing about the use of this
              term is that it is used to describe members of the Bush
              administration who predate the bush administration by
              decades, like Dick Cheney. This seems an awful lot like
              the way people in the humanities attatch the prefix "post"
              to everything.  I claim that that usually ends up not
              meaning much and weakening the language.
              \_ This is where having a BA in English comes in handy:
                 Believe me when I tell you that the English language
                 is strong enough to weather the additional use of the
                 prefix "neo" as regards conservatives.
        \_ Time magazine has a good article on neo-conservatives and
           the Bush Administration.  Paul Wolfkowiz (?) was the original
           one and he had to convince Cheney/Bush/Powell of the views.
        \_ Because "Neo-conservative" suggests "Neo-Nazi".  Duh!
           Another way of putting it:  Neoconservative == Rumsfeld|Cheney|
           Wolfowitz, Conservative == BushSr|Powell|Reagan
           -the troll who knows more than you
           \_ What about my hero Dubya?!
              \_ like his father, BushSr.  Not neoconservative.
                 \_ Except he is a little less intelligent than his Sr,
                    so he gets pushed around by the neos.
                    \_ Powell was converted too.  Or at least didn't
                       complain publicly.
                       \_ Once Bush got brainwashed, Powell have no
                          choice but to follow along.  Read the recent
                          WSJ article about diplomacy before the war,
                          and how Powell got caught in the middle.
                          Poor guy.  He should have gone for the
                          Presidency himself, rather than work for
                             \_ What purpose would that serve?
                          wimpy Bush and get push around by the neos.
                          \_ I wouldn't call Bush wimpy.  He wants tension
                             between his advisors.
                             \_ To make himself look like an idiot?
                                \_ like him or not, it takes tons of guts
                                   to start a major war like the one in
                                   Iraq.  Dubya has guts.
                                   \_ I don't think he has guts. He never
                                      fought in a war. He also claims to
                                      be Christian, and that all the dead
                                      people go to heaven. So basically
                                      no matter how bad he fucks things up,
                                      the God safety net makes it ok.
                                      \_ if you were president, would you
                                         be able to order a major war like
                                         the one we are having now (pretend
                                         you believe in the cause).  Some
                                         presidents do simple air strike
                                         pin pricks and then say that
                                         was enough.
                                \_ awesome, he has guts.  i feel better now.
                                   "That guy who hit that guy in head with
                                   a spiked bat, he had a lot of guts."
                                   \_ America had guts to enter the 2nd
                                      world war, while those who appeased
                                      Hitler didn't.  Would you want a wimpy
                                      President instead?
                                      \_ Guts? Hitler declared war vs. the US
                                         not the other way around.
                                         \_ The U.S. stayed on the sidelines
                                            for a long time in WWII.
                                            The U.S. didn't have to send
                                            forces anywhere in WWII.
                                            \_ True. And they would have just
                                               sat if Japan hadn't attacked.
                                               As usual, it would have been
                                               easier for the US to deal with
                                               a tyranical dictator (Hitler)
                                               than other democracies.
                       \_ Powell understands that the Bush administration
                          values the appearance of unity and a single
                          message very highly.
              \_ Dubya == a shadow of BushSr -op
                 obbutclintonwasterribleremarks
2003/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27919 Activity:high
3/30    Can anyone recommend a good book about Bill Clinton? It can be
        about any aspect of his life...pre/post-presidency, presidency,
        his life in general, etc. Thanks.
        \- YMWTR: No One Left to Lie To: The Triangulations of
                  William Jefferson Clinton
           Ok tnx. --psb
                \_ What is YMWTR?
                   \_ you may want to read.  --!psb
                      \- ^want^wish --psb
                         \_ LOL. YMMV.
        \_ "Stroke of the Pen, Law of the Land, Cool", autobiography of WJC
                               \- The book "The Law of the Land", by
                                  Charles Rembar is a really really good
                                  book. Rembar was an interesting fellow.--psb
        \_ Betrayal: How the Clinton Administration Undermined American Security
           by Bill Gertz
           The China Threat: How the People's Republic Targets America
           Absolute Power: The Legacy of Corruption in the
           Clinton-Reno Justice Department - by David Limbaugh.  Basically
           a rehash of newpaper stories during his tenure.
           Ask yourself this - how, in the past 20 years has China procured
           all seven of our nuclear warhead designs.
           \_ Clinton!  Maybe Bush Sr.  Reagan?  No, Reagan wouldn't let that
              happen.
                \_ Read the Cox report, Reagan did not know, Clinton
                   knew and did nothing about it.  Bush may have been at some
                   fault.
                   \_ Where in the report does it say, "It was Clinton's
                      fault."
                        \_ You're right, George W. Bush as Governor of Texas
                           and private citizen was completely responsible.
                           \_ While we're at it, where does it say,
                              "Reagan didn't know about it, and Bush
                              may have been at fault."
2003/3/31-4/1 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:27920 Activity:low 63%like:27947
3/30    OpenSSH 3.6 will be out shortly. Changes include RSA blinding
        and proper handling of priv. sep. when root login is permitted.
        Portable: ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/OpenSSH/portable/openssh-3.6p1.tar.gz
        OpenBSD:  ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/OpenSSH/openssh-3.6.tgz
        \_ Thanks -- I've installed it in /usr/local/bin.  --mconst
        \_ thanks
2003/3/31 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:27921 Activity:kinda low
3/30    Last item on this link demonstrates the evil that is Fox news:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55511-2003Mar30.html
        \_ And tells you how absolutely biased everything else on TV
           is.
        \_ And tells you how absolutely biased everything else on TV is.
           \_ I watch Fox news because they are unbiased and 100% for the war.
2003/3/31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27922 Activity:high
3/31    Anybody think that the republican guards are sitting around in their
        tanks waiting to be bombed from the air?  You don't have to be a
        military genius to figure out that this war will be fought in the
        streets of bagdad.  Saddam probably sent the troops home wearing
        civilian clothes and stashing weapons in houses.  Preparing for door to
        door combat.
        \_ Duh, of course they're not.  You, Sir, are a military genius!  Was
           there a point you were trying to make?  Did you have a suggestion
           for our military leadership to better conduct the war?
            \_ actually, it would be nice if they would listen to this sort of
                thing, b/c it really appears they are not.
                http://slate.msn.com/id/2080814
                \_ Actually, I think the US military has been afraid of exactly
                   this since the war was first contemplated.  It's not the
                   US military that wanted to go to Iraq.  Not AT ALL.
           \_ The point is, when this turns into door-to-door combat, it'll be
              another somalia.  Soldiers dressed up as civilians dragging a
              dead body around the streets in front of live TV broadcasted
              around the world.  What do you think that'll do to the morale?
              \_ Hmm, I actually find that REALLY unlikely.  Though there
                 are some surface similarities, the situations are radically
                 different, both politically and strategically.
                 different, both politically and strategically.      -mice
                 \_ I agree. Somalia was a very limited mission with the
                    incident in Mogadishu due to a bad operation plan without
                    Hui in Vietnam during the Tet offensive, except with
                    decent heavy support. A more accurate parallel would be
                    Hue in Vietnam during the Tet offensive, except with
                    greener American troops, tighter rules of engagement, and
                    higher US concentration of logistics and heavy support.
                    I wonder if the US will stop doing the chem-alert dance
                    within city limits and under fire.
        \_ many republican guards are surrounding baghdad.  There is
           a special republican guard unit inside of baghdad, maybe 15000
           troops?
        \_ So far Saddam's battle plan has been working a lot better than
           the American's battle plan.
           "So far"?  And the sky is green, right?
           \_ You call losing 75% or more of the country in a week a really
              great plan?  Sending out suicide bombers at the point of a gun?
              That's a plan?  Please send some email to Saddam with more great
              military advice.  It'll only make the job that much easier.  You
              haven't studied a whole lot of military history, if any.  This
              war is going fantastically well for a weeks' worth of fighting.
              If you can call a week and a total route a war.
              \_ true.  But beware -- the hardest part is still to come.
                 The Siege of Baghdad continues.  If only we can
                 create some sort of Trojan Horse.
              \_ Touched a nerve, eh? First take some prozac. Second, yes I
                 have studied military tactics. He is doing what he set out
                 to do in the only way he could. He still has the bulk of his
                 infantry *intact* and is using every possible unconventional
                 guerilla tactic to sting the so-called coalition's ass.
                 Considering the overwhelming conventional force against him,
                 yes, his battle plan is working to a "T". He will bloody the
                 coalition badly if they are drawn into city fighting. He was
                 smart to not leave his forces out in the open where they would
                 have been shot to pieces. Don't take this the wrong way, I am
                 for US/Britain victory, but covering what has happened so far
                 with blind rhetoric won't hide the truth. Capisch?
                 Roger-and-out.
                 \_ not-op: I am the gamemaster.  I give you a choice.  Which
                    side would you like to be on?  Saddam?  or Coalition?
                    \_ not-op: Err ... how 'bout God's side.
2003/3/31 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27923 Activity:high
3/31    An old Iraqi woman shouted at an American invader in Nasiyria,
        "Go home, you have desecrated our land."  She told him "Everybody
        will fight the invasion even our palm trees."
        Sources: reporter, Italian TV.
        What a stupid old hag!
        \_ you sure she wasn't yelling at the Italian reporter?
2003/3/31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27924 Activity:high
3/31    Why Iraqis are never going to see the Americans as liberators
        http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2479.htm
        \_ the most disturbing news I heard over the weekend was some middle
           eastern professor here in the US saying that Iraqis won't fight
           for Saddam. They hate him. But they will fight for Iraq.  Don't
           underestimate Iraqi nationalism.
                \_ hell it looks like even the iranians are willing
                   to fight for iraq.
                  \_ They realize they could be next. "Axis of Evil" --dim
                     \_ Relax, Iran.  There's still Syria.  --erikred
           \_ that's why some higher public officials wanted a small force --
              a force big enough to win, but small enough not to look
              like invaders.  They wanted to emulate the latest war in
              afghanistan.
2003/3/31 [Uncategorized] UID:27925 Activity:nil
3/31    Hey, is Cheney still involved anyway with Halliburton?  Does he still
        sit on the board or own stock?  Just wondering...
        \_ No.  And Halliburton lost the $600m contract to rebuild a bunch
           of stuff in Iraq.
        \_ I repeat.  There is no paper trail or business connection from
           Cheney to Halliburton.  A few years from now, after you have
           long forgotten who Cheney is, Cheney will be very well taken care
           of by whatever companies he currently favors now.
2003/3/31 [Uncategorized] UID:27926 Activity:nil
3/31    Arnett fired! Yes!
        http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/31/sprj.irq.arnett/index.html
2003/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Foreign] UID:27927 Activity:low
3/31    Amazing results when one does not take campaign finance bribes
        from foreign governments:
        From Beijing, stern words for an uneasy ally
        http://csua.org/u/c10
        \_ A result of more failed Bush 'diplomacy'.  Clinton had a grip on
           this for 8 years until that idiot stole his way into office.
                \_ To you 'grip' defines covertly refining plutonium
                   and uranium
        \_ That's right:  actual domestic corruption is so much better than
           alleged foreign contributions.
2003/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27928 Activity:very high
3/31    Apparently, having the Americans behind you is ever worse than
        having the French behind you:

        "Combat is what I've been trained for. I can command my vehicle.
        I can keep it from being attacked. What I have not been trained
        to do is look over my shoulder to see whether an American is
        shooting at me."

        "There was a boy of about 12 years old. He was no more than 20
        metres (yards) away when the Yank opened up. There were all these
        civilians around."

        "After this I am quite pleased to be going home," one of the
         wounded, Lieutenant Alex MacEwen, told the paper.

        "'Blue-on-blue' has always been one of my biggest fears. It is
         something that my friends and family joked about. 'Don't worry
         about the Iraqis, it's the Americans you want to watch'. The
         proof is in the pudding really."

        (Times of London)
        \_ ...and the point is?  That combat is dangerous?  Than being on the
           front line with bombs falling, jets screaming over head, and
           incoming enemy fire is confusing?  I think that ought to have been
           well established by now.
           \_ I think the point is, while the U.S. has spent a lot of time
              on U.S.-on-U.S. friendly fire, this hasn't translated to
              reduced U.S.-on-UK incidents.
              \_ Hmm, yeah I see what you mean -- but I don't care for the
                 presentation.
        \_ Am still searching for a semantic thread ...
                                    \_ You misspelled 'semitic'
        \_ Who's ever had the French behind him?
           \_ You must've missed the putative Patton's remark about
              the French posted here the other day.
           \_  The US, or the American Colonies as they were known then.
        \_ Just from reading the news, it indeed seemed that the British
           casualties are disproportionally high, specially friendly-fire
           related.
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:March:31 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>