Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2002:December:11 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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 2002/12/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:26783 Activity:nil ```12/10 http://csua.org/u/69b [azcentral.com] Goooooo bears! \_ I believe its pronounced: GO BEAH!```
 2002/12/11 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science/Physics] UID:26784 Activity:very high ```12/10 Physics question: When one lifts weights, s/he exerts more forces, hence the pressure the ground s/he stands on receives more pressure. Is that correct? My friend tried to tell me it is rather because the object (the weights) are moving, it is the acceration that translates into greater force hence greater pressure. But shouldn't the object as a whole (the weights + the weight lifter) be considered a still object since the area touching the ground isn't moving? Any url reference to this would be great. \_ pressure is force per area, so if the are is fixed(the area of the bottoms of your shoes if you are standing), then the force is your weight plus the weight of the weights plus the added force from the acceleration of the weights. this added force is the mass of the weights plus your arms(measuresd in slugs) times the acceleration you apply. if you don't bielive \_ what do you mean measured in slugs? It doens't matter what units you use. English units are confusing. Best to use kg to measure mass, but slugs will work too. \_ right. i was just making the point that slugs are mass and pounds are force. IF you use kilograms, you'd better use Newtons, which most people are not familiar with. that this aceleration adds force, accelerate the weights as fast as you can, and feel the burn in the knees. to keep the same force, but change preassure on the floor, just change area: stand on tiptoes or sit down. \_ You can also do the experiment by lifting dumbbell while standing on a bathroom scale. The reading is roughly the same as the force (although expressed in mass units) between your feet and the ground when the scale is not there. Watch the reading becomes higher after you grab the dumbbells and hold them steady. Then watch the reading changing when you accelerate and decelerate the dumbbells in the vertical direction. \_ I understand f=ma. But ultimately, it's the weight lifter that needs to exert more force. The acceration of the weights is caused by the extra force the lifter has to put out. My friend's argument is that the accerleration generates more force, but isn't it really the oher way around in this case? The fact of the weights moving at an accerlerated speed and the greater pressure are both caused by the more force exerted from the lifter, no? \_ Don't confuse energy and force. I can slump on the sofa like a big pig not spending a single calorie of energy, but my fat butt would still be exerting a force on the sofa. Remember Energy = Force x Distance Moved. I am a lazy bum who don't like to move, and AnyForce x Zero is still equal to Zero. \_ hmm. I am more confused with weight v.s. force. Isn't weight force in the first place? _/ Help me settle the bet here. My friend's arguement is weight changes as objects are being lifted. But my argument is it's the force that's changing, not weight. Isn't weight simply the gravitational pull on the mass? In this case, aren't both constant? \_ What the bathroom scale usually measures is the gravitational attraction (a force) between your mass and the fat lump of mass we call the Earth. When you hold onto two dumbbells like some dumb body builder and stand on the bathroom scale, it is now measuring the the gravitational attraction between "your mass plus two dumbbells" and the Earth. When you are further accelerating the two dumb bells upwards, the bathroom scale is now measuring the above plus an additional force exerted by the accelerating dumbbells on your body. Remember "Action Reaction". That's why when measuring yourself on a bathroom scale, you try to be naked, so that there isn't any extra mass, and you try not to jump up and down. What your friend refers to as "weight" is what is measured on the bathroom scale. What you refer to as "weight" is the gravitational attraction between your mass and the Earth's mass. As seen above, the two of you are referring to different things. The two are only one and the same when you are naked and not jumping up and down. I think I have been trolled. Oh well. \_ Your friend's thinking is inherently flawed, but explain it to him this way: When you talk about a person's weight, you imply that that person isn't moving. If he jumps up while on a scale, his "weight" will increase as he jumps up. This is cheating; you take weight when you're standing still. So you can't be pushing dumbbells while taking your weight. Likewise, you can't raise your arms up and down. Ask him if his weight is changing when he's pumping his arms or jumping on the scale. \_ conservation of angular momentum \_ Huh? \_ Check an elementary physics text. Or sit on a computer chair, hold a spinning bicycle wheel and twist it. \_ Yeah I know what conservation of angular momentum is, but what does that have to do with the questions in this thread? \_ the overall pressure's the same but your feet exert more. \- if you have flies in a jar on a scale the scale wil read the same whether they are sitting on the bottom, the side or flying ... but at lift off it will register more. \- here is a fun problem: you have a uniform gold chain of legnth l ... say 1meter ... with mass m ... say 100 grams. you hold the chain l units above a scale and drop it. so at t0 when you release the chain, the scale reads 0 and at t1 then the chain is resting on the scale, it reads m->100g ... plot f(t) between t0->t1 where f(t) is what the scale reads. this might be sort of unkind as an interview problem for a software guy :-) --psb \_ Birkett demonstrated and then explained this in class once, but I forgot the physical basis of it. Can you post it? \_ typical physics h7a homework problem \_ yeah, so typical. \_ Ok, I give up. What is the solution? I got a big complicated equation ( (7Mggtt)/(2l) ) which I don't think is right.```
 2002/12/11-12 [Finance/Investment] UID:26785 Activity:high ```12/10 How come mortgage interest rates didn't drop sharply during the past month given that the 0.5% Fed intereste rate drop on 11/6 was a surprise one rather than an anticipated one? \_ Long-term (expected) budget deficits keep bond prices low. Interest rates move in the opposite direction of bond prices. \_ to add to this, mortgage rates do indeed follow the yield on the 30 year treasury. Like the stock market, expectation moves the rate rather than the actual news. That's why you see the market go up in anticipation of a news and actually drop after the news is confirmed. Mortage rates are the same deal. The threat of Iraq and imminent war will drive the mortgage rate down. When when the bombs actually start dropping and we're kicking ass, you'll see it come back up again. \_ 5.825%/15 year baby! Love this economy! \_ I just refi'ed last week and got 5.375%/15 conforming. \_ Let the mortgage dick waving commence! \_ It's not worth it for the companies to drop their rates. They've got enough business via refi's and new home buyers, dropping their rate overloads their business for low profit. \_ Home mortgages have to compete for cash, just like everything else. The other big competitor for the low-risk, long-term yield is 30 treasury bonds, so mortgages can't move too far from them. But there are other bonds, like AAA rated corporates, that are similar. So just the fact that the Fed is lending money at a lower rate to banks, doesn't neccessarily lower rates to to the consumer. Above posters said this, but in a less clear fashion, imo. \_ So, since the Fed lowering the rate doesn't mean consumer can get lower rates, how is the Fed lowering the rate going to stimulate the economy? It still costs investors the same to borrow money to invest, so they won't be any more willing than before to invest and create jobs. \_ same way as tax cuts for the rich: trickle down economics! \_ I knew we were getting trickled on!```
 2002/12/11-12 [Science/Electric] UID:26786 Activity:very high ```12/10 If you are changing jobs, can you count on people at your current company to provide honest references despite the obvious conflict of interest? \_ obviously it depends on the people \_ I usually keep in touch with those who left before me. Then again, you need to keep contacts before you are even thinking of leaving your current job \_ The funny thing is, the only person I know who left before me was the guy who held my current position and only worked there 3 weeks. The ones who will could give good references won't because they will be boned if I leave. The ones who accept that I'm leaving are idiots. This sucks. -OP \_ How long have you been working at this place? If new, you can use references from previous job and explain away the lack of references from current job. This would imply that someone actually checks the references. \_ Don't people check references? Otherwise, you could claim credit for more than your share of work. \_ How about talking to the ones who will be boned. If they are mature adults they should be able to handle it professionally. If not, candidly offer them a bribe.```
 2002/12/11 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:26787 Activity:nil ```12/10 I have some RTF files that I want to extract the text from. Any recommendations on good, simple UNIX apps? (not "strings") I use "catdoc" for .doc's. But it doesn't do rtf. \_ Typing "rtf" at soda shell prompt yields rtf2LaTeX. No, I don't know how well that thing works. Also, the catdoc website (http://www.ice.ru/~vitus/catdoc has an "rtf2html" posted. Same disclaimer applies. \_ Thanks. the rtf2html I found earlier was from 1993. This one you pointed me to was upgraded in 1998. Works Great. Thanks -op \_ real men use strings. truly real men write their own in perl. \_ Why reinvent the wheel? True men take existing open-source software and improve upon it and put it back out into the world, GPL Style. \_ The GPL is for babies. That's newbie shit. Real men \_ I believe the proper term is quiche eaters predate this gpl craziness, write their own code, and you can have the source if you can break in and take it.```
 2002/12/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Transportation/Car] UID:26788 Activity:high ```12/11 Is there any discount for FasTrak users on bridges? Someone told me there is, but when I look at http://www.dot.ca.gov/fastrak there isn't any. Thanks. \_ \$4 instead of \$5 on the Golden Gate: http://toll.goldengate.org \_ This should end soon. Budget problems. \_ Golden Gate is FIVE dollars?? How long has this been the case??? - moved out of the Bay Area \_ A year or two. \_ No, it started September 2002. --aaron \_ BB, SM, and DB bridges used to be 1.85 but now 2.00 \_ fastrack is not about discounts. its about making traffic move faster. it doesn't but that's the idea. they don't need to discount a service (using bridge) that you're goint to use anyway. \_ what about all the unemployed tooltakers? \_ I've heard that those people supplement their income with the tolls. \_ what about them? is there a real question here? are you in favor of eliminating all labor saving devices to increase employment for the unskilled? \_ yes. \_ Cool, as you're obviously unemployed and desperate for work, post your name. I have some ditches that need digging. -John \_ You think the poster is qualified? \_ Let's see: strong back, good work ethic-- nope, no motd'rs fit the bill.```
 2002/12/11 [Uncategorized] UID:26789 Activity:nil ```12/11 This has been done before, but we need an updated version with new characters. Cast sodans as Star Wars characters! I'll get the ball rolling. ... \_ the new trilogy is a piece of shit, and frankly RotJ was no great shakes either. why are you wasting your time with this crap? --aaron```
 2002/12/11 [Uncategorized] UID:26790 Activity:nil ```12/11 Hot Spanish butts! :-) http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/021211/168/2uh44.html \_ These are men's butts :( Most Sodans are straight men so I doubt this link will be of much value. \_ I feel oppressed by this statement. I think you are expressing a sentiment I have perceived in other venues that homosexual males and heterosexual females have no place in this organization.```
 2002/12/11-12 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:26791 Activity:high ```12/10 Can anyone recommend any good tests for wireless equipment in a campus network environment, with a large-ish number of clients? Everything I come across only does performance benchmarking with single clients. I'm hoping for some tips on how to go about properly setting up such an environment. -John \_ What kind of tests? What are you looking for? \_ I have an environment with large amounts of very very bursty traffic (it's a school, with classrooms full of kids all logging on at the same time.) I'd like to avoid dropping APs all over the place, although if I have to, I'll consider citrix. These are Win2k laptops doing domain logins. -John \_ Write a script that simulates bursty traffic. Put them on some laptops on a cart and push them around the school. Add APs where performance is bad. \_ Wow.. didn't realise the job market in Europe was that bad. \_ Excuse me? They've got _me_ in as a consultant, trying to figure out Win2k problems...I haven't seen any dotcom-dropout breadlines here recently... -John \_ Agilent. I know a guy who works in their wireless test division if that helps.```
 2002/12/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26792 Activity:high ```12/10 How does one explain proofs by induction to an idiot? \_ Lead him through it step by step. He should be able to arrive at the conclusion. -John \- sing "the sun will come out tomorrow, tomorrow, you can bet your bottom dollar" --psb \_ No that's how you explain it to an intelligent person/adolescent who has never been taught induction. I don't think induction is for idiots. \_ It was supposed to be a joke. -John \_ Here, hold this wire... \_ A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step \_ ask them to use an indirect proof to prove that induction doesn't work. walk them through a simple proof, like how summing increasing odd numbers generates squares. \_ http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/56866.html \_ On the same note, does anyone have a good online reference to explain induction to a 16 year old brother? \_ see the above mathforum link. \_ is he an idiot? \_ Schools haven't taught this to 11th graders? \_ Go back to russia, jew. \_ It was taught in the 10th year in Britain. \_ I was taught induction in 8th grade (Cupertino CA) I'm poor at geography and history but I'm pretty sure that Cupertino is not has never been a part of russia (or the USSR). sure that Cupertino has never been a part of russia (or the USSR). \_ This one is a master of double-think. \_ RAdm Poindexter is watching you. Don't be surprised if the Ministry of Truth pays you a visit.```
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2002:December:11 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>