10/28 So why is it that gas prices in the bay area (any city, any station)
are higher and sometimes *much* higher than the isolated, zero
competition stations on the I-5? What's the excuse for that BS?
\_ gas/food/utility is a small fraction of your housing expense.
Why don't anyone bitch about that?
\_ They've admitted all along that gas prices are based in part
on income levels of the zip code. Then throw in the cost of
doing business in the bay area, and there you are.
\_ Buy a hybrid
\_ My first thought would be land expense. Also, how about taxes?
There might be far higher taxes in urban areas. --PeterM
\_ When I drove the I5 in '89, gas was about 50% higher on the I5
than here. I'm not aware of any changes in the tax rates that
would account for 10% lower on the I5 now.
would account for 10% lower on I-5 now.
\_ supply and demand. No matter how expensive the gas is your wealthy
next-door-retired-HP/IBM/Intel-guy-who-worked-here-for-30-years
when-a-3000-sq-ft-house-in-SJ-was-only-$80,000 will still pay for
the gas, lowering competition. That's why BA sucks. Let's all
leave! I did and I'm happy.
\_ amen on that, man. fuck the bay area. i pay 25% less in gas
or so, *and* i walk to work every day from a decent home.
\_ When the next gas is 30 to 60 miles and your typical driver has
another 200+ miles to go, I'd say supply is low and demand is
high on the I5. I think you might have something with the "Bay
Area people are just stupid" concent, though.
\_ More people live here than travel along I5. Why is demand
necessarily high? Besides, people are more inclined to be
picky if they know they are going to spend a large sum on
gas in the next few hours.
\_ bullshit. it's collusion.
\_ a Hydrogen/Solar economy is inevitable.
\- There are two major variables you can collpase this to
per occam to get good quality explanation: 1. REGULATION
2. COMPETITION. The regulations explain why production
costs in califnornia are higher and (surprise) explain why
costs of gas are high all over CA. 2. As for why gas prices
are higher in Bay Area than Los Angles, that is largely
competition [LA has more gas stations per unit area].
A third factor, production costs [I am including shipping
from production site, to refining site, refining costs,
jobber costs,and finally shipping to pump], probably
contributes some ... large diameter pipelines are the cheapest
way to move oil ... and there is no lg diameter pipeline to
CA ... however supertankers are actually pretty cheep, and
if this were the largest contributing factor, you would think
Hawaii would have the most expensive gas, but SF started to
pass Hawaii a little while back. You can discover this and
more via emacs M-x analyze-local-petrolium-mkt. You may
need to do a (setq calendar-latitude +38.9)
(setq calendar-longitude -122.25)
guess what, the Bay and the I5 are both in CA and suffer
first, however. ok tnx, --psb
\_ all of which fails to address the question, which is
"why are gas prices higher in the Bay Area than on I-5",
guess what, the Bay and I-5 are both in CA and suffer
from the same regulation. And as for competition,
it always seems to me that gas stations on I-5 are
crowded all the time, while gas stations in the Bay
are not so busy. If anything, it argues for economies
of scale on I-5 vs local stations in the Bay.
What about land expense, taxation, and lower labor costs,
also?
\_ Are you stupid or just stupid? Try looking into the
regulations before presuming they're statewide.
\_ I was criticizing psb, who only mentioned CA
regulations. He made no claims about regional
regulation.
\_ criticizing on what he _didn't_ say... train
be diff in the i-5 case. what you need to look at
harder.
\_ Land is cheap along I-5, but expensive in the BA.
\- "crowded" is not the measure of competition.
the franchise terms and jobber set ups may also
isnt a matter of competition. if the i5 gas station
be diff in I-5 case. what you need to look at
are profit margins. a higher price can reflect
either higher costs, perceived product differen-
tiation or rents/mkt/power/less competition.
if the price is higher due to higher costs, that
isnt a matter of competition. if an I-5 gas station
has a larger profit margin, that may be an
interesting phenomenon looking for an explanation.
the mcdonalds outside the grand canyon has really
high prices. is it because they have a monopoly
from the park? no. it is outside the park in BF
nowhere ... where rents cannot possibly be high.
while they are the only fast food place there, that
is still not a monopoly because of the idea of
contestability [if they were making undue profits
then someone else would open up a restuarant].
so the real explanation is costs. it turns out you
basically have to run a dorm for your crew to have
them live in BF nowhere. --psb
\- BTW, there is an interesting discussion in
Kwoka & White: The antitrust revolution:
economics, competition, and policy
ok tnx, --psb
\_ This is a troll... I was on the I-5 over the weekend and it was
almost always more expensive on the 5 than in Berkeley.
Berkeley ~ $1.45; I saw up to $1.89 on the 5.
\_ Maybe not: http://csua.org/u/476
\_ Collusion. Why does everyone ignore the obvious? |