Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2002:September:13 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2002/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25869 Activity:nil
9/12    Victory of the proletariat
        What the loss of Brazil to "the Reds" would mean for the United States
        http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0902/0902brazilelec2.htm
        \_ Who cares, I'm more freaked out about the country/economy/
           just about everything I hold near and dear going to hell
           if/when/certainly! the bush administration invades Iraq
        \_ why don't you post a news link rather than a right-wing
           editorial.   can't you just write your own right-wing
           editorials here on the motd?
                \_ Have you ever seen the word 'Communist' associated with
                   any of the politicians mentioned in the mainstream
                   press.  I rest my case.
2002/9/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Companies/Google] UID:25870 Activity:high
9/13    china bans google, then... unbans google
        \_  i smelt a rat.
                \_ D'you think that they just wanted to shake down google
                   for bribes?
            \_ Ewwww.
        \_ Unbanned, but still 'filtered'
        \_ Wow, China is clearly following the US in limiting civili liberties!
           \_ Try to say this aloud while you're in China.
              \_ I fear saying it in the US!  This has become a Nazi state!
                 Bush the Fascist!  The sky is falling!  I'm no longer free!
                 \_ Yea, you say something not politically correct, and
                    mad dogs immediately attack you from all sides.
                    \_ That's why I bring the Big Stick Of Truth to the motd.
                       It's fun to beat up the PC crowd with it and kills some
                       salaried time each day.
2002/9/13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:25871 Activity:insanely high
9/13    http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/iraq/tenthings.html
        What you can do about the hopefully not COMPLETELY IMMINENT
        war on iraq.  I admit that some of them are kind of
        naive and uneffective, but what else are you going to do?
        \_ You've probably seen the flyers but there will be a march in the
           city tomorrow afternoon. The global exchange website has a link to
           that tells the details. I won't make it and I'm curious what other
           stuff people know about. I've written my letters and called my
           reps. I'm looking for things outside of Berkeley. -- ulysses
        \_ You're going to thank your lucky stars you're a citizen of the most
           powerful nation ever to grace this planet; a nation so powerful, we
           no longer draft idealistic young idiots such as yourself to defend
           ourselves.  We only send poor white trash and desperate minorities
           to defend the college kids now.  Be glad you're part of the elite
           and never have to risk anything to keep freedom alive.  You get to
           post URLs and mouth off without fear of government retribution.
           \_ How is Iraq threatening our freedom?  Our freedom to have cheap
              oil?  If the Saudis want defense, they can pay for it themselves
              they're not helping us anyways.  Fuckers.
              \_ Uhm, where have you been?  Let's assume the weapons inspectors
                 got 100% of everything before leaving in 98.  What are the
                \_ I am open to suggestions for more useful
                   urls.
                 odds Iraq hasn't started up new programs since then?  Zero is
                 a reasonable guess.  Given they're working on WMD, it becomes
                 a case of "when" we need to do something, not "should we".  I
                 don't give a flying figs fart about oil or the Saudis.
                 \_ !given: produce the evidence.
                    \_ Use some logic.  It should be obvious they're still
                       working on it.  Why would they suddenly stop after the
                       inspectors are gone?
                       \_ Because the facilities were destroyed?
                 \_ "Hey Georgie, watch me make a nuclear bomb out of rubble.
                     Nuthin' up my sleeve... Presto!"
                     \_ Nonsense.  They're got plenty of cash, a decent
                        military for the area even after getting beat on in 91
                        and the will to use it.
                      don't want to sell to me a nice price, I'll go elsewhere.
                        \_ Makes you wonder how man the Saudis have. They're
                           far richer and they've shown they'll go splat for
                           the cause.
                 \_ you probably should give a fig about oil, everything
                    in our daily life depends on it.  there are a bunch
                    of articles out there from the un weapons inspector
                    who doubts iraq has the industrial capacity to
                    make weapons of mass destruction.  i also don't think
                    if we bomb the fuck out of iraq, that a magical new
                    american friendly regime will rise up out of the ashes
                    - danh
                    \_ Ritter?  You mean the same guy who when he left was
                       still reporting they hadn't gotten everything but 4
                       years later is now giving a clean bill of health?  And
                       hey let's ignore the post-Ritter UN Security Council's
                       report that was sponsored by the Russians and intended
                       to clear their buddy Iraq but only confirmed Ritter's
                       you and those near you. And then actually do it anyways
                       to make an example of questioning authority. The Mogols
                       had terror down pat. The VV doesn't KNOW real terror.
                       last official report that Iraq still has WMD and was
                       continuing to work on them at the time.  Ritter is
                       playing some kind of sick game.  He either lied then or
                       he's lying now.  Either way, his credibility is now
                       zero.
                    \_ I don't care about "protecting" oil either.  I rather
                       pay for it at the pump than through my taxes.  If they
                       don't want to sell to us at a nice price, we'll buy
                       from Canada or Russia.  If it costs more, we'll adapt.
                       BFD.  I don't want to send some teenagers to die
                       so that I can drive as much as I want.
                          \_ Oil prices have been falling for years.
                             Plus, consumption of fuel will fall because
                             the real price of the fuel appears at the pump
                             rather than coming out of your paycheck twice
                             a month.
                       \_ It's not just cars, it's all motor vehicles.
                          Transportation costs could shoot up making things
                          cost more and cut down consumer spending which is
                          keeping the US economy alive right now.
                          \_ Oil prices have been falling for years.  Plus,
                             consumption of fuel will fall because the real
                             price of the fuel appears at the pump rather
                             than coming out of your paycheck twice a month.
                             \_ I bet you really think that too...
                                \_ that's a bunch of crap.  i recently
                                   went to a panel where a group of
                                   hydrogen fuel cell industry leaders
                                   spoke about their businesses, and
                                   they are not all that far from
                                   the automotive market.  why is 2015 such
                                   a crazy time to have the technology to
                                   market?  this is good money, being
                                   spend on good research and develpement.
                          \_ this is why one of the only *really* smart
                             things the Bush administration has done is
                             to put 1.5 Billion dollars into Hydrogen
                             fuel cell reesearch, primarily for automotive
                             aplications.  why they didn't try to get more
                             publicity for this genuinely smart move is
                             beyoned me.
                             \_ Because it's a kickback to his oil buddies
                                http://csua.org/u/296
                                \_ that's a bunch of crap.  i recently went to
                                   a panel where a group of hydrogen fuel cell
                                   industry leaders spoke about their
                                   businesses, and they are not all that far
                                   from the automotive market.  why is 2015
                                   such a crazy time to have the technology to
                                   market?  this is good money, being spend on
                                   good research and develpement.
                                   \_ While at the same time, all attempts
                                      at increasing fuel efficiency standards
                                      are thrown down with bullshit arguments
                                      over "safety concerns".  Efficiency is
                                      death to capitalism.
                                   \_ Because in 10 years, they'll discover
                                      an even spiffier technology, or prove
                                      the fuel cell is the wrong answer, and
                                      have to spend another 10 years thinking
                                      of a better way to do thing and by the
                                      way it's gonna cost the taxpayer another
                                      few billion.
           \_ Was the Roman Empire or the Mongolian Empire more powerful than
              the US?
              \_ Not even close.
              \_ Depends on what you define as "powerful." For world influence
                 and economic domination, the US. For deference by neighbors,
                 allies, and occupied nations, the Romans. For sheer terror
                 and size of empire, the Mongols.
                 \_ The US gets tremendous deference from the entire world.
                    They just want us to make some noises via the UN first so
                    they can feel like they still matter.  If you read the
                    village voice or listen to certain South Africans, the US
                    is already the greatest threat to world peace so we've got
                    it on the Mongols, too.  Also, the Mongols fell apart
                    almost instantly because they didn't have enough people
                    to hold their land and they were a charisma based primitive
                    leadership system, no concept of transition or government.
                    \_ I meant deference as in defer to us or we will slaughter
                       you and those near you. And then do it anyways to make
                       an example of questioning authority. A Roman without
                       escort could walk the Empire knowing that if he were
                       hurt, all of the locals would die. The Mogols had
                       terror down pat. The VV doesn't KNOW real terror.
                       \_ How about the mafia?
                       \_ What's "VV"?
                          \_ A W with a split personality.
                    \_ Mongols didn't fall apart instantly!  Stop insulting
                        us Mongols!  We ruled Moscow for a few centuries.  We
                        ruled China, and we had the Mughal empire!
                        \_ You fell back from Europe in a flash of historical
                           time.  Just poof.  Gone with no long lasting changes
                           on the locals.  Sorry mongoloid boy but your people
                           were good for nothing but a few hollywood films, a
                           cliche or two and some Xena episodes.
                           \_ Ungrateful unguns!  If we didn't kick the
                              Islamic terrorists from their behind,
                              including the grand old daddy of terrorists
                              the old man of the assassins, and severely
                              damaged their vitality, those islamic
                              sand people would be marching all over you,
                              and putting your bad mamas in their harems.
                              Not only that, we established trade routes
                              all over central asia which helped spread
                              trade and knowledge!
              \_ How about the British Empire at its peak around the 19th
                 century or so?
                 \_ What British Empires?  Where is it?  I don't see it.
                    \_ Not now.  At its zenith, the British Empire stretched
                       over one-fourth of the earth's surface.
           \_ I would willing serve in the defense of America, but invading
              Iraq isn't about defending America. Its all about politics. A
              good war will help the Republicans in the upcoming elections
              and the establishment of a puppet regime in Iraq will allow
              US and British oil companies to gain access to cheap crude.
              These companies are big backers of the Pres. and will help him
              in his re-election bid. - !OP
              \_ The previous US-Iraq war clearly didn't help the Republicans
                 when Bush Sr. lost to CliTton and had to let him finish the
                 job.
                 \_ That's not the point.  It's whether the Republican
                    leadership think it would.  Remember Max Boot the
                    republican bull dog of Daily Cal?  He proclaimed 4
                    more years of George Bush right after the Gulf War.
                    \_ Duh, anyone with a tenth of brain cell would've said
                       that at the time since he was riding the high 80's in
                       public polls.  You're stretching.
                       \_ Anyone with some brain cells would not put too
                          much faith in polls in predicting elections
                          some ways down the road.  Not all our polticians
                          have brain cells though.
                          \_ So call Max Boot and the motd poster above and
                             let them know how stupid they are to think that
                             a high poll rating now will translate into votes
                             later.  I agree with you.
                             \_ Max Boot is now working for a Republican
                                think tank and his articles had appeared in
                                the Foreign Affairs.
        \_ ok i'll bite, what's so idiotic about being against
           the upcoming iraq war?  It's kind of late to rant right now,
           maybe when I get some sleep.
           \_ Give it a rest. He was posting useful information for folks like
              me, not trying to start debate.
              \_ If you really *needed* that URL then you're not going to be
                 doing anything useful.  There was nothing useful there.
                \_ I am open to suggestions for more useful urls.
                   \_ Useful for what?
2002/9/13 [Science/Electric] UID:25872 Activity:high
9/12    Apparently some people are confused: Washington, D.C. is not a state.
        \_ hence the "no taxation without representation" bumper stickers
           you see on so many cars with DC plates.
           \_ DC voted in a convicted crackhead.  DC & certain parts of
              Florida are no longer allowed to vote.
              \_ hence the "bitch set me up" bumper stickers you used to
                 see on some cars with DC plates.
                 \_ really?  that's sweet.
        \_ What?  It's not?  You're kidding!  Next you'll be saying the same
           thing about Canada!
           \_ well, I thought it was obvious too, but apparently some people
              on soda don't know that. (based on the 9-1-1 Lotto thread)
              \_ My bad.  For some reason I thought the Pentagon was
                 somewhere other than DC.
                 \_ you're thinking of the octagon.
           \_ DUH! Canada isn't a state, its a protected territory like Guam
              or the Virgin islands.
              \_ Oh.  I thought those two guys who did the canadian beer
                 drinking movies in the 80s were their senators.  I guess they
                 were just non-voting reps like guam has.  Thanks for clearing
                 that up, eh?
2002/9/13 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/SW] UID:25873 Activity:high
9/12    People familar with Sun workstation: does anyone know what this
        object is/is for: /tmp/sunpart-large.jpg, /tmp/sunpart.jpg --psb
        \_ why do ppl post pics in tmp instead of on their web page?
           \- i have no WEEB page.
                \_ copy it to ~psb/public_html , then fuck off!
              \_ sunpart.jpg is a GIF file. Anyways, I think it's a torque
                 wrench for riser boards found in models like the U80.
              \_ I assume the green thing is packing material or background
                 for contrast.  The silver tool does look like a memory
                 riser board torque"r".  I haven't used one in years.  -ax
        \_ Looks to be a bit of packing or the handle for a board/enclosure.
        \_ I can't view the image from here.  If you have a part number you
           can look it up in their online hardware manuals at <DEAD>support.sun.com<DEAD>
2002/9/13 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:25874 Activity:kinda low
9/12    Has anyone else noticed that their ssh session tends to die as
        soon as they get notified of new mail?
        \_ never happens to me.
        \_ Mine is kindof twisted. If I have newmail running in the backgrnd
           I cannot seem to log out of my ssh session cleanly (it just hangs
           after the logout). But if I kill the newmail process prior to
           logging out, it works fine. (this is on a Debian Linux). Clues?
           \_ just a guess -- does newmail open an X connection?
        \_ try ssh -v when making connections.  without debugging info you
           don't stand a chance.
2002/9/13-14 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:25875 Activity:nil
9/13    Can someone install perl6 on soda?
        \_ Isn't it still beta?
2002/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:25876 Activity:high
9/13    "A Meditation on Our Vanishing Liberties, One Year After the
        9-11 Attacks"
        http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0237/solomon.php
        \_ People here pick on the mainstream newspaper URLs I post because
           they have a tin foil and black helicopter fear of the moonies, yet
           the village voice is posted as if it could be taken seriously?
           \_ have you ever dealt directly with a moonie controlled
              business?  they're like the mafia, only they can
              hide behind religion and they seem to be better at
              what they do.  it's not paranoia.  fuck the moonies.
              \_ And this has exactly what to do with newspapers or their
                 content?
                 \_ i go to their website, it increments their counters,
                    makes their site more popular, and increases their
                    advertising revenue so they can attack more busineses.
                    i don't care if there are good reporters on staff at
                    the washingon times; i will *never* knowingly support
                    a cult's business, having been hurt by them in the
                    past.
                    \_ You actually decrease their click through rate,
                       which hurts them.  You may increase their unique
                       visitors count, which may help.
                    \_ Ok, at least you admit to having an axe to grind and
                       it has *nothing* to do with the quality of their staff.
           \_ By "moonies" you mean members of the Unification Church founded
              by the Korean Sun Myung Moon?  What does that have to do with
              mainstream newspapers in US?
              \_ That's what I keep asking but my mainstream newspaper URLs
                 will get dismissed out of hand as "moony propoganda" without
                 any reference to the content which is always available
                 elsewhere.
2002/9/13-14 [Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:25877 Activity:kinda low 66%like:25886
9/13    http://www.cthuugle.com
        \_ To whomoever deleted this: fuck you, you cock-gobbling pile of shit.
           \_ It might help if you actually added a brief note about it.
              URL's with no commment or explanation are often culled out of
              hand.                               -mice
              \_ mice, this is one of those rare links that is self-commenting.
              \_ That's a really annoying habit that people have here. !op
              \_ How about this: you pretend there's a little comment next to
                 the bare url saying "this is a link that might be of interest."
                 for some things there just isn't any reasonable explanation.
                 \_ I didn't post the cock-gobbling pile of shit comment, but
                    I do agree with his sentiment.  There just isn't any
                    reasonable explanation for the link.  If you have to
                    ask, you don't know. -op
2002/9/13-14 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:25878 Activity:high
9/13    How is the CS/EECS freshman enrollment?  Is it still crowded and
        crazy as before now that the dotcom has bombed out?
        \_ Pre-dotcom era: I read through hundreds of student filled out
           surveys as to why they were in their chosen major.  99% of the
           EECS kids wrote "money".  Just the one word.
           \_ sad.  I did it because I liked it.  The money was a nice
              side effect.
              \_ I chose device driver because I liked it, even though all
                 the money was in the web field.
                 \_ I think device drivers takes more skill/ability than
                    web, yet web people got paid more?
                    \_ Yes.  You get paid based on what non-tech people can
                       see and understand.  They don't understand what a driver
                       is.  They do sort of understand what a web page is.
           \_ What kind of school admits students who say that?
              That's no reason to even go to college.
                \_ They only say that after they got admitted.  Duh!
2002/9/13-14 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:25879 Activity:nil
9/13    http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1325469
        sobering thoughts.  prepare thyself accordingly.
        \_ They don't go nearly far enough into the alarming consequences
           of deflation.  Basically deflation kills most demand.  Everyone
           wants to hold onto his cash so he can get what he wants for less.
2002/9/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:25880 Activity:nil
9/13    My 100 shares of stock dropped more than 5% at the opening.  Uh... my
        p/e ratio is improving!  Half-full!  :-)
2002/9/13 [Politics] UID:25881 Activity:high
9/13    http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2002411747,00.html
        \_ http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4065780.htm
2002/9/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:25882 Activity:nil
9/13    "Microsoft Flaw May Allow File Theft"
        http://csua.org/u/295
        Yawn ... but wait, this is unlike before:
        "The company said it will definitely repair the problem only for
        owners of the most recent versions of the software."
2002/9/13-15 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:25883 Activity:high
9/13    Any plans to install gcc-3.2?
        \_ Is there any reason to other than it's kewl and gn00?
           \_ Support for partial template specialization.  New binary format.
              Etc.
              \_ So it has kewl new features.  Is there any reason to install?
                 \_ so you can wank off to the binary's new features. duh.
                    \_ so ill guess we'll be stuck with a known-good version
                       of gcc that works just fine and does everything required
                       of a compiler until a version comes out that someone
                       actually _needs_ installed.  wank at home.
                        \_ But gcc 3.2 is binary incompatible with C++ binaries
                           from previous versions!  Don't you want to recompile
                           everything written in C++?
                           \_ and what about C99?
2017/09/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/19    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2002:September:13 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>