7/29    Can some one tell us some definitive info about what's going on
        with pop?  it hasn't worked since the ip change.  Do I need to
        change port number?
        \_ The sort-of official, and thoroughly unannounced answer is that
           clear-text POP/IMAP has been disabled since the recent compromise.
           You can only use SSL enabled POP/IMAP clients.  Hopefully we will
           soon have localhost clear-text service available for those who
           prefer to ssh tunnel instead of trying to find an SSL enabled
           mail client --scotsman
           \_ okay, what settings do I use for POP3 over SSL?  port 995?
              \_ Y'know.  looking at things, I don't see POP3s enabled..
                 I'd have to say mail root. --scotsman
           \_ wasn't this always the case? I was never able to use POP w/
              clear-text password remotely and have been ssh tunneling for
              about the last year.              - rory
        \_ On a somewhat related note, is telnet / skey going to be
           reenabled, or is it permanently disabled?

7/29    All my favorite PC gamer news sites are dead.  I'm down to gamespot
        which is nothing more than advertising and screenshots.  What are
        the rest of you reading?  Thanks for any URLs.
        \_ whatever happened to http://gamers.com?
          \_ dead dead dead
        \_ how about http://ign.com?
           \_ I just don't know which is why I'm asking.  All PC gamer news
              URLs appreciated.  --OP
              \_ http://shacknews.com, http://evilavatar.com    -blojob

07/29   There are currently no plans to reinstate plain text POP and IMAP.
        Use SSL POP and IMAP. -- ajani
        \_ Well, these would work, if stunnel didn't core all the time.
           We are currently looking for a solution that actually works.
           Until then, POP and IMAP may not work. Deal. Volunteers are
           welcome.  -- ajani

7/29    What are some instances where the housing market tanked, not due
        to natural disasters?
        \_ cities where it tied itself to a major industry or army base.
           when the company or military base closes shop, everything goes
           downhill.  Or places where there is a major factory disaster,
           like Love Canal in the 70s.
           \_ new england has dozens of cities like this that were tied to
              manufacturing of various kinds.  you may have heard about
              Stanley Tool relocating to Bermuda on paper and moving
              alot of their production overseas.  I used to live in the town
              that used to be the Stanley headquarters, and it's really really
              sad.  houses stay on the market for months and go for nothing
              to slum lords that rent them out to the shitheads who have moved
              in and destroyed the town as the decent people with the skills
              all moved out.  once there is a critilcal mass of shitheads in
              the town(attracted by the cheap housing), the decent folks become
              literaly afraid to send their kids to the local school, and
              you pass a realestate event horizon beyond wich only slum lords
              dare to tread.  If you're the kind of person who likes to
              "buy american", don't buy stanley tools.  fuck stanley.
        \_ Seattle in the '70s. Boeing cancelled the SST program and laid off
           several thousand engineers. The trickle down effect wiped out the
           local economy for over a decade. This was culminated by the billboard
           someone paid for at the edge of town at the time:
           local economy for over a decade. This was culminated by the bill-
           board someone paid for at the edge of town at the time:
           "Will the last person to leave Seattle please turn out the lights".
             -- ulysses
           \_ Follow on note - the general thinking is nothing like that will
              ever happen here because the Bay Area has a diversified
              base. The "effect" of the dot-com crash on the housing market
              (owning vs. renting) pretty much proved this.
              \_ Don't be so sure.  "General thinking" has often been proven
                 wrong.
              \_ Yeah.  In Alameda, the dot-com crash combined with the closure
                 of the military base didn't seem to have an effect on the
                 home prices there.
                 \_ The dot-com crash didn't kill any jobs which existed
                    before 1997.  If Silicon Valley starts moving operations
                    en masse to India, the Bay Area would have the same kind
                    of dropout that the eastern industrial cities had when
                    all those industries moved overseas.  -tom
                    \_ Nonsense.  Jobs are not moving en masse to India.  If
                       you've ever been involved with an Indian project, you'd
                       know this "all the jobs are moving to India" noise for
                       the ridiculous FUD that it is.  Multi-lingual, multi-
                       time zone projects are insanely hard to get right.  Yes,
                       a certain amount of the grunge work and QA can be farmed
        \_ white flight from major cities had a serious effect on housing
                       out but those are $10/hr jobs here anyway.  All the real
                       work for American companies will continue to be done
                       right here for decades to come.  The only thing dumber
                       than sending important work to India is hiring masses of
                       incompetent H1b's based on fabricated resumes and the
                       recruiter's word.  Been there, done that, seen it fail
                       over and over.  My current company does India work but
                       only in very carefully measured doses and only the lamer
                       work.  The important work is still done here and always
                       will be because we don't want the company to go under.
                 \_ Au contraire. Alameda prices dived after the closure.
                    Prices on the unfashionable west side were about 200K
                    for a 2bd 1ba four years ago. Now the mean would be
                    closer to 400K due to leftover splash from dotcom.
                    \_ Oops!  I was only thinking about the Bay Farm side and
                       thought it represented the whole city.
                       \- you should see some of the photographs of places
                          like Flint, Michigan.
        \_ white people from major cities had a serious effect on housing
           markets.
        \_ The real estate market in SoCal tanked after reaching all-time
           highs around 1989. It took about 8 years to recover. Shit happens.
           Like the stock market, the general trend is up. --dim
           \_ That's the key point here.  If you buy something with solid value
              such as real estate (and not the stock of Anderson clients) and
              _hold it_, then over the _long term_ you'll end up ahead no
              matter the ups and downs along the way.
              \_ "no matter what" should be replaced by probably not.  In
                 the Bay Area, anything west of the east bay hills should
                 be safe, unless it's in active gang land.
              \_ I'm sure people who bought condos in Allentown in 1972 think
                 this is great advice.  -tom

7/29    A question for you married alumni:  have you become more conservative
        since you graduated, started working, and got married (or had kids)
        even?  (assuming you were liberal before):
        yes:
        no: .
        \_ Marriage had no effect.  But going to Berkeley did.  I entered Cal
           as a blank slate.  All the political stuff was totally outside my
           entire universe before entering college.  I came to Cal.  I was
           inundated with leftist propoganda.  I listened.  I analysed.  I
           became aware.  I eventually registered Republican and vote that way
           at every election now.  I don't agree with the entire (R) platform.
           A lot of it is a load of crap but less so than what the left wants
           to do.  I think talking with BH was the turning point for me.
           \_ I came in left and UC Berkeley made me much less left for
              basically the same reasons. I've since moved away from campus. I
              live and work and volunteer in West Berkeley now and my politics
              have been drifting back to the left working with the community
              here. It was the frickin' indoctrination that sucked.
        \_ More responsible and financially conservative, yes.  My politics
           haven't changed- although I'd encourage Pat Buchanan to build the
           wall twice as high now that we are post 9/11.  -ax
           \_ Woo woo!  GO PAT GO!
        \_ i was republican when i first went to Cal and when i graduated
           i was still a republican.  now (6 years after graduating) i'm
           still a republican.  i guess my political views haven't changed
           at all.  -uctt
        \_ I came to Berkeley center-left, but watching Tim
           Russert smirk the night of the 2000 election and reading
           Freerepublic I am now hard right.  How could I have been so
           stupid? BTW Bush is increasingly a disappointment.
           \_ Bush has always been a disappointment. --dim
           \_ I hope you're a troll.  The freepers aren't real republicans or
              real conservatives (not the same thing).  They're a bunch of
              whacko extremist freaks.  They're the right's unthinking
              counter part to the left's unthinking Berkeley/San Francisco
              counterpart to the left's unthinking Berkeley/San Francisco
              whacko extremist freaks.  I've yet to hear an extremist from any
              part of the spectrum that didn't turn my stomach.  And no I'm not
              a wishy washy undecided middle-grounder either.