Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2002:June:29 Saturday <Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2002/6/29-7/1 [Uncategorized] UID:25239 Activity:high
6/28    What are the adverse effects of replacing a circuit breaker with
        one not specifically designed for the breaker box?
        \_ It breaks. :-)
        \_ Go for it.  Fire hazards are FUN!
           \_ No, seriously-- the amperage rating is the same, and it fits
              in perfectly.  What are the specific hazards/pitfalls?
              \_ self-immolation?
              \_ No, seriously, call an electrician.
                 \_ As it turns out, it's largely alright-- home
                    inspectors like to see all the breakers under a single
                    brand, but as long as it's a tight fit the only
                    potential problem is the bus arcing over and causing
                    pitting/corrosion.  That may generate heat, which is
                    bad if your box is surrounded by oily rags and tinder,
                    but in my case this doesn't apply.  All of this came
                    from a licensed electrician.
                    \_ Why not just replace the breaker with the same
                       brand? I don't get it. Are you *that* cheap? --dim
                       \_ why don't you just run windows?
                    \_ is this OP?
2002/6/29-7/1 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:25240 Activity:moderate
        Analysis of MS Palladium scheme.  It's even worse than I'd first
        thought.  Very ugly stuff.
        \_ You expected any less?
           \_ It didn't occur to me such evil was possible but I'm not
              at all surprised it was MS that came up with it.
        \_ see also
        \_ What is stopping people from just replacing the "fritz" chip
           with a FPGA that says yes to every query?
           \_ Destroying your MB because it'll be built in that way?  Or worse,
              it'll be part of the CPU in v2?
2002/6/29-7/1 [Recreation/Music, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25241 Activity:moderate
6/28    ok, so audiogalaxy is now broken, napster is dead, gnotella always
        sucked, and has gotten worse.  where do we go to get free music now?
        \_ I use Grokster - neutered so that it doesn't phone home. You can
           find howto's on the net.
        \_ Sam Goody's.
           \_ You use the old FiveFingers client?
              \_ Real pros only need and use the TwoFingers client.
        \_ Qtrax max and blubster
        \_ I've been quite traumatized by the loss of audiogalaxy... I've
           started using WinMX a bit... and it seems ok. nothing too great...
           but it seems a lot of audiogalaxy people are going there which
           means the music selection should be great. If they can just
           improve their infrastructure, they'll be good.
        \_ Gnucleus is a pretty decent gnutella client; it's GPLed and
           lacks spyware.
           \_ Which almost makes up for the fact that gnutella sucks.
        \_ Qtrax max and blubster. These are the two best clients that I've
           found after playing with about 15 of them. I'm unemployed so I have
           lots of time to compare the quality of the various MP3 engines.
2002/6/29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25242 Activity:very high
6/28    Cheney takes over government!
        \_ It's only the second time that the 25th Amendment is invoked, and in
           both times it's because the President of the United States of
           America has his anus poked.
           \_ When was the other time?  Carter getting his hemrhoids(sp)
              \_ "The only other time Section 3 was invoked was July 13, 1985,
                 when President Reagan underwent surgery for colon cancer."
        \_ "Bush said he decided to transfer powers to Cheney out of extra
            caution because the nation is at war."
           One last time... did Congress actually declare war? -geordan
           \_ you know the answer.  why don't you count how many times
              the bush administration has violated the constitution
              and tell us.
              \_ I feel so violated.  -- the Constitution
              \_ I believe that FDR was the last president to actually
                 request a declaration of war and get it..
              \_ Yawn... here come the lawyers!  Yes, sure, 'war' has a
                 specific legal meaning in this country which requires, oh
                 fuck it.  You know all this.  Fucking motd.  So pedantic
                 in a pathetic attempt to score some 'points' on some
                 mythical scoreboard somewhere.
              \_ How does Bush violate the Constitution by just saying that
                 we are a nation at war?
                 \_ Only Congress has the power to declare war. The terrorism
                    thing is a MEOW (Moral Equivalent Of War) type war. Like
                    the "war" on drugs.
                    \_ And the war on desert storms.
                       \_ And the Korean and Vietnam wars?
                 \_ Oh please, both you and Mr. Mythical Scoreboard up
                    there.  I asked if Congress actually declared war.
                    Suddenly people are pulling "Geordan said that Bush is
                    violating the Constitution" out of their ass.  And I
                    don't know about any "mythical scoreboard" you're
                    referring to.  Get a life, or at least sign your name.
2002/6/29-30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:25243 Activity:high
6/28    I have been repeatedly warned *not* to write shell scripts in
        csh/tcsh.  Is there any validity to these warnings? If so, why?
        \_ Warned by?  I write all my personal stuff in whatever the fuck I
           want (csh/tcsh/perl).  I write anything for init.d in /bin/sh
           because /bin/sh should always work so the scripts are 100%
           guaranteed portable. (heh).  /bin/sh pretty much sucks and has
           near-zero useful features but it's there.
        \_ Instead of posting your question to the motd try putting it
           to google.
           is the classic article that explains why it's not a great idea.
           \_ For starters let's note this was written in 1996.  A lot of the
              bugs he's picking on aren't out there anymore.  A lot of the
              examples he's using are a bit contrived.  I agree csh is not the
              best thing to write in if you're going to stick it in /etc/init.d
              or write a large script that does something important but for a
              quick hack, why not?  It's there, you know it, use it and throw
              it out.  Anything longer than 5 or 10 lines is probably a Perl
              job anyway.  /bin/sh for /etc/init.d, tcsh for fun, Perl for
              real work.  Just one man's world view.
              \_ When are you people going to move to Ruby?  Perl sucks.
                 \_ When Ruby has something that looks like CPAN so I don't
                    have to reinvent the wheel everytime I want to do something
                    interesting.  I started Perl at 4.015.  Lemme know when
                    Ruby is as useful as Perl was 5+ years ago.
                    \_ CPAN ugh. That is the worst thing to happen to perl
                       with the possible exception of the stupid OO crap.
                       Perl 4 was the last great perl, it had everything that
                       was missing from Perl 3 without any of the messy
                       non-sense of Perl 5 (about the only thing that Perl 5
                       add that is of any value is my).
                       \_ CPAN is bad uh how?  And Perl5 added real structures
                          to the language making it much more useful.  If all
                          you wanted was sed/awk, use sed/awk.  Some of us are
                          too busy to reinvent the wheel or fucking around with
                          the broken data structures in Perl4.
              \_ It was written in the 80s
                 \_ Even more so then.  The date inside the URL said 96.
                    \_ It's just as relevant now.  csh still can't do basic
                       stuff like redirect STDOUT and STDERR to different
                       places.  It's a fine login shell, but it sucks for
                       programming.  -tom
                       \_ Uhm, on that point in particular, you're wrong:
                          (command >stdoutgoeshere) >&stderrgoeshere
                          (admittedly, it can't, say, juxtapose the two, but
                          that's not needed too often)             -alexf
                       \_ Why would anyone want to use (t)csh in a world
                          where ksh and bash exist?
                   Who uses ksh? _/
                          \_ Because bash is broken and stupid?
                       \_ uh... % ( some-command > someplace ) >& other-place
                      \_ I've never wanted to do the obscure shit he's talking
                         about csh not supporting.  That's what perl is for
                         anyway.  /bin/sh and perl covers everything.
                         \_ if /bin/sh and perl covers everything, why are
                            you programming in csh?
                            And really, it's pathetic that csh can't handle
                            trivial, obvious syntax like:
                            "if ( "$foo" == "bar" )".  You run into shit like
                            that all the time with csh.  -tom
                                 \- writing stuff in csh to me is like using
                                    vi for quick edits ... no matter how quick
                                    or trivial you think it will be, about
                                    half the time you get started doing
                                    something more involved and regret not
                                    starting out doing it right ... however
                                    if you want an objective list of drawbacks
                                    and gotchas in csh, that is a decent list.
                                    when it comes to tcsh there are some bugs,
                                    but everything has bugs ... those things
                                    in the famous doc are mostly design flaws.
                                    if csh works you you, do what you want.
                                    a very imporant piece of "code" at lbl
                                    consists of 3024 lines of csh ... it was
                                    supposed to be a 20 line program.
                                    "bill joy has a lot to answer for"
2002/6/29-30 [Finance/Banking] UID:25244 Activity:nil
6/28    Anyone have any experiences worth mentioning, positive or negative,
        dealing with INGDirect (or other units of ING)?
        \_ Electronic transfer takes about 5-7 working days before the fund
           is available (to and from savings acct.)  Had to call service
           once, about 30 seconds wait before getting a real person.
           Overall, the experience has been good.
2002/6/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Recreation/Sports] UID:25245 Activity:insanely high
6/28    Chinese Citizen first pick in NBA draft.
        \_ hello and welcome to two days ago.
           \_ not everyone pays attention to the NBA draft when it happens.
              \_ well, you gotta figure, if you didn't care enuf to figure
                 out where he was drafted then, you don't care now.
        \_ um, is he a decendent of the barbaric Mongolians?
           \_ this is the most politically incorrect statement I have
              heard from Berkeley people for such long time.
              And by the way, many Chinese has some Mongolian blood in
              them.      -- Chinese with Mongolian relatives.
              \_ Helloooo!  Wake up, son.  "Politcal correctness" is now
                 officially dead.  Taken a look at Mongolia today?  They're
                 *still* barbarians.  Get over it and move on with your life.
                 Sometimes the truth hurts, that doesn't make it wrong.
           \_ As opposed to that dumb ogre who plays center for the Lakers?
           \_ No, that would be me.  -- russian
2002/6/29 [Uncategorized] UID:25246 Activity:nil
6/28    Are Mongolians suppose to be giants or something and drink raw lamb
        blood? What's the big deal w/ Mongolians?
        \_ Is it true what they say about... er...
           \_ Yep, pretty big feet.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2002:June:29 Saturday <Friday>