3/16 Re: Politburo minutes-- what's the deal with alexf and no more
e190 requirements for EECS majors?
\_ The minutes were somewhat misleading. I made a public threat to
drop out of the EECS major based exclusively on the E190
requirement, with a crowd of ~50 EECS honors students and the
department chairs listening. This was enough to initiate a
discussion in the crowd whereby the chairs were unequivocally
told that E190 is a bad idea, and both agreed that "something
should probably be done about this." I never actually carried
out the threat, but the chairs got more than a mouthful, and
out the threat, but the chairs got more than an earful, and
will probably get a more organized push at the faculty retreat.
If all goes well, there's a fair probability that the E190 req
will eventually be reformed or just go away. But don't hold
your breath quite yet. -alexf
\_ not to belittle your role in the eecs department
(what it may be), but why should they care if one
person drops out of their department?
\_ That's a fair question, of course, and one that I do not
feel comfortable answering fully on the motd. I do believe
I've accummulated a bit of a reputation in the department, at
least to the point that a move such as the above would attract
substantial attention. This correlates reasonably with the
reaction of at least Prof. Sastry (current EECS chair) at
the dinner, and, I believe, would be similar for a number
of others. -alexf
\_ wait, i thought you were a math grad student
\_ Err? No, not unless there's something I don't know
about... Last time I checked, I was still an
undergrad (and mostly in EECS). -alexf
\_ What is E190?
\_ "Technical Communication", a required class for everyone
in the College of Engineering.
\_ So *why* is E190 a bad idea, exactly? I took 190 voluntarily in
1997; while I probably could've done just fine in later life
without it, I found the course quite useful in helping me improve
my clarity and succinctness while presenting technical material.
Other people in my class entered the course as barely functional
communicators, and left *vastly* improved. Plus, E190 was
fantastically easy. Has 190 become more onerous since I took it,
or is this an "this course is beneath me"/freedom-to-choose
issue? Just wondering. -- kahogan
\_ I took it in '99 and found it to be a good course that most EECS
majors could benefit from. Just make sure you take it with the
right prof (in other words: Phillipi)
\_ I have him, and the only thing I've seen anyone learn yet
is how to be sarcarstic and belittling to others. -chialea
\_ Yes, and yes. From talking from the few older people who
bothered taking it before it became a requirement, it seems
that the quality has indeed plummetted since then. Of the
people who take the class now, 90-95% find it utterly useless
and unproductive. Those who can write don't gain anything,
and those who can't mostly stay that way. The instructors
are, by common consensus, epsilon semi-morons, the material
is largely, well, absent, and the grading is too
indistinguishable from /dev/random. Fantastically easy?
Perhaps in some sections, not in most. I and most others I've
talked to find it a major nuisance simply due to time wasted
on the assignments. ...And yes, I do believe that this course
was beneath me and beneath virtually everyone else who gets
forced to take it. -alexf
\_ Given the communications ability of the typical geek on the
outside, it can't hurt.
\_ It doesn't help any, and hence hurts by wasting our
time.
\_ Of course it helps. If nothing else it lets the
skip E190. Is this not the case?
failures know why their career is going nowhere later
on. Communication is more important than anything
else outside the towers. If you can't communicate
clearly and intelligently then your skills are
worthless.
\_ OF COUR53 1T H3LP5! 1F NOTH1NG 3L53 1T L3T5 TH3
F41LUR35 KNOW WHY TH31R C4R33R 15 GO1NG NOWH3R3 L4T3R
ON! COMMUN1C4T1ON 15 MOR3 1MPORT4NT TH4N 4NYTH1NG
3L53 OUT51D3 TH3 TOW3R5! 1F YOU C4N"T COMMUN1C4T3
CL34RLY 4ND 1NT3LL1G3NTLY TH3N YOUR 5K1LL5 4R3
WORTHL355, D00D!
\_ as I recall, those who prove they can write beforehand can
skip E190. Is this not the case? I considered myself to
be one of "those who can write" before I took E190, but E190
improved my writing anyway. I am now more conscious of
split-infinitives and dangling modifiers. Furthermore,
there's the oral communication part of E190, which you seem
to have ignored.
\_ Use. Less. People either freeze up or already had a bit
of experience with public speaking. I personally am
a bit of a grammar nazi, and certainly didn't gain
anything from that section. If your English is so bad
to begin with, take an English class. Technical writing
\_ don't end a clause with a preposition.
\_ this is ok. just don't end sentences
with prepositions.
should not be a grammar class. From what I've seen,
virtually everyone forgets it in a week anyways. -chialea
no clear antecedent _/ \_ not a word.
\_ my English was very good before I took E190, and I
learned more in E190 than I did in any of the English
classes I took. English classes seem to focus more on
literature than on improving real grammar skills. |
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