Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2002:January:06 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2002/1/6-8 [Computer/HW/IO] UID:23476 Activity:high
1/5     Dvorak keyboard, yey or ney?
        \_ Do you plan to carry your own keyboard with you?  Do you ever
           have to use other people's computers?
           \_ What the hell are you talking about? Why do you need to CARRY
              your keyboard around? It's the same bloody keyboard, just a
              different layout. A kinesis on the other hand, that is a
              different keyboard.
                \_ Let's hear what nweaver has to say, he uses Dvorak.
              \_ A: I can still type (but not as fast) on QWERTY.
                 B: Most OSs these days support soft remapping.  Once you
                    can touchtype dvorak, it is a simple matter of mapping
                    and unmapping the keyboard layout.
                 C: No wrist pain since I switched.  -nweaver
                    \_ My wrist pain disappeared after I used a wrist pad with
                       my QWERTY keyboard.
                    \_ My wrist pain disappeared after I got a girlfriend and
                       cut down on my frequent masturbation.  This course of
                       action might be a little difficult for some CS types,
                       but I heartily recommend it!
           \_ Also, do other people ever have to use your computer?
              \_ Not an issue, at least not on Windows, as it supports
                 switching between the two quite easily.
           \_ When you learned a foreign language, did you forget how to
              speak English? The answer is Yay.
              \_ When I learned French I didn't forget English but I didn't
                 have to bring my French keyboard with me to France.  Your
                 analogy is false.  Good try though.  The first answer is
                 still the questions above which imply "no".
                 \_ how is the analogy false?  if you're on your normal
                    keyboard, you "speak" your normal "language".  if you're
                    using someone else's, you speak theirs.  Big fuckin'
                    deal.  -tom
                    \_ I'm sure this is fine for someone who types 20 wpm on
                       your shitty Dell keyboard but some of us are used to
                       better which makes it a "big fuckin' deal".
                    \_ can you actually touch-type at similar speeds on both
                       qwerty and dvorak keyboards, or are you talking out of
                       your ass?  I would think that "muscle memory" severely
                       would limit any kind of "keyboard fluency." I'm not
                       saying it can't be done, but it's also not easy to be
                       TRULY fluent in multiple languages, without requiring
           \_ a friend from work, who came to the US from Germany for his
              post-doc, travelled back for a conference.  another German
              asked him where he learned German, because it sounded better
              than most American's accents!
              \_ My mother (who is Dutch) gets this when she goes back to
                 visit from the USA. "You speak Dutch so well..." --dim
           \_ Dvorak!  I can't type on a qwerty keyboard anymore for > 1 hour
              without my wrists hurting / going numb for the next two days.
              I can type 80-100 wpm all day and never have my hands complain
              when using the dvorak layout.  Learning the keymap takes about
              2 hours to memorize, about a month to get faster than the qwerty
              layout.  If you are the sort of person who thought it was fun
              to spin in circles until falling over as a kid, you will probably
              enjoy the experience of remapping your neurons!  All this
              questioning of linguistic memory-  its crap.  I can type qwerty
              at exactly the same speed as before, after a good 2 years of
              dvorak.  Spend the effort.  Use dvorak.  People will freak when
              they try to type something into your keyboard, but there are
              some nifty programs that let you switch layouts ala hotkey.
              When you start learning-  make sure that you don't have a
              termpaper due during the 1st month or so-  it will only be a
              frustrating experience.   -joshk
                \_ How do you know the change to Dvorak isn't just delaying the
                   inevitable: the day that you can't type qwerty -OR- Dvorak
                   without wrist pain?  Maybe you just have destroyed your
                   wrists Dvorak style yet?  How many years of qwerty did you
                   have before it was a problem?
                \_ I am sure Dvorak is good for the hands of regular people,
                   but is it any good for programmers who use a lot of all
                   those funny characters which normal people don't usually
                   use?  Because I don't find typing English much of a
                   problem.  It's those !~@#$&*() that is a pain in the
                   ... fingers and wrist.  Maybe someone should design
                   a keyboard standard for programmers.  Remember to
                   name it after me.
                   \_ Very good point!  (Though I don't know the answer.)
        \_ "TYPING ERRORS
           The standard typewriter keyboard is Exhibit A in the
           hottest new case against markets. But the evidence has been
           "Typing Tangles"
           -- yuen
        \_ Finally listened to nweaver...and have never looked back.
           Haven't had wrist pain in 4 years.  Doubled typing speed.
           How long until I see wrist pain?  Does it matter?  I would
           rather put it off than get it now!  Does it hurt
           programming?  No.  Was the muscle memory hard to re-learn?
           A little.  Can I type qwerty?  When needed, and yes, the
           muscle memory is still there, too.  I would give the
           original question a whole-hearted YES!  In a production
           environment, it has been no problem.  We're using WinBloze,
           and I set my machine up to switch seamlessly (by setting it
           up under multiple languages) with a hot key.  When I use
           other machines, either I use QWERTY or, if I'm going to be
           at it a while, I get the drivers off my shared drive and
           set their machine up with dvorak as an alternate without a
           hot key, so they can't accidentally switch to it (and tell
           the machine owner).          -djyoung
2002/1/6 [Uncategorized] UID:23477 Activity:nil
1/5     The following prints a very standard binary series in the
        representation of 0.1, but stops short of 64 bits. Does that mean
2002/1/6 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/HW] UID:23478 Activity:nil
        0.1 cannot be accurately represented in the binary format, and if
        so, how come adding 0.1 successively on my computer works?
for ($i=0; $i<$PREC; $i++) {
    if ($radix<=$target) {
    } else {
        \_ have you taken 61c?  IEEE-754 floating point doesn't use all 64 bits
           for the significand, you know.  And no, 0.1 (decimal) can't be
           represented exactly in binary.  Try it on paper.
           \_ the point of the poster is that since it cannot be represented
              exactly in binary, why it works on modern processors.
                \_ Well we know that certain Intel cpus just ignore all that
                   precision stuff anyway.  :-)
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2002:January:06 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>