Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:December:15 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
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2001/12/15 [Uncategorized] UID:23249 Activity:nil
12/14   http://www.theonion.com/onion3744/java_programmers.html
        links to the "author"'s page.  (i'm so confused this is the first time
        i have EVER thought "is this a real person?" in regards to an onion
        article.  (I have MANY times thought "this is just like a real person"
        but that is no the same) The Authors page links to Lila's.
        (http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~lila/humour/startrek/janeway.vs.picard
        \_reformatted
2001/12/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:23250 Activity:very high
12/15   Bush: "I don't know whether we're going to get him tomorrow or a
        month from now, or a year from now, or in my second term of office. I
        don't really know. But we're going to get him," he continued."
        \_ <DEAD>www.smirkingchimp.com<DEAD>
        \_ Is self-confidence a crime now?
                \_ you misspelled "arrogance"
                   \_ Bush would've spelled it that way.
                        \_ Funny that no matter how well the man does some
                           people are still stuck swallowing leftist media
                           noise.  Do you also think it's ok to sell secrets
                           to foreign powers for DNC cash infusions?
                           \_ Do you have any evidence backing up your paranoid
                              fantasies? URL please.
                           \_ You're as bad as all those people in the Arab
                              world who unequivocally accuse the US of
                              doctoring the bin Laden tape without any
                              actual evidence they it was doctored. Like
                              them believing anything al Jazeira says without
                              proof, you believe anything the RNC says
                              without proof. So unless you actually saw
                              Bill Clinton hand over a pile of secret military
                              documents to another country, shut the fuck up.
                                \_ Amazing.  So unless I *personally* see a
                                   crime take place it couldn't possibly have
                                   happened?  So let's say I break in to your
                                   place while you're gone and steal all your
                                   stuff.  You later find your stuff at my
                                   place but you didn't see me take it.  You're
                                   cool with that?  What's your address?  I'm
                                   coming by for a visit.
                                \_ Congratulations, this is among the most
                                   pathetic posts I've read on the motd.  As
                                   we all know, it was just a vast right
                                   wing conspiracy. Uh huh.
                                   \_ This is nice. You have nothing more
                                      intelligible to say so you retort
                                      with an inane comment. And stop
                                      putting words into my mouth.
                                        \_ Ok, ask yourself why Clinton
                                           was spending his time jerking
                                           off in the Oval Office sink
                                           instead of counteracting
                                           terrorist threats?
                              As for Bush doing well, people said he was
                              doing a great job handling the matter hours
                              after the attacks, even though he didn't actually
                              do anything yet. It was the NYC mayor who was
                              in charge of the situation there, not Bush. But
                              it's natural to rally around your president
                              during a crisis as big as this. The same thing
                              happened to FDR right after Pearl Harbor. Does
                              the fact that thousands of people died all of
                              a sudden make him a great president? No. He's
                              done things by the book and, of course having
                              the largest military in the world, it's not
                              hard to come to the conclusion that we're going
                              to kick the Taliban's ass. In my opinion, Bush
                              has made several critical faux pas, most of
                              which were by his attorney general. His ability
                              to communicate effectively as a statesman (yes
                              it is part of your job as president) has been
                              meager at best and his choice of words an
                              embarrassment to our country. And I don't think
                              he has the diplomatic skills to handle the
                              international coalition in the long term. He's
                              already done and said a lot of things to piss
                              off a lot of countries (the war itself is not
                              one of them - military tribunals, security
                              council veto, planning to wage war against
                              Iraq, etc...) and the only reason why other
                              countries are condoning the US is because we
                              were victims to a horrific attack. Once the
                              war in Afghanistan is over, we're going to lose
                              support and isolated from the world unless
                              Bush changes his attitude. Of course, I'm sure
                                \_ While Bush is no Reagan, compared to Gore
                                   hes the fucking Messiah.  What are you
                                   an ambassador from a foreign country?
                                   Exactly why are we supposed to care
                                   what socialist euro-trash think?  This
                                   argument about pissing off other
                                   countries is ridiculous, yet its
                                   repeated incessantly by the media pukes.
                              there are csua Republicans here who are
                              insistent that "other countries" in the world
                              are irrelevant and that the UN should be
                              destroyed.
                                 \_ You seem a little upset.  Perhaps some
                                    Prozac?  I've been waiting for years to
                                    hear exactly why it matters what other
                                    counrties think of us.  So let's say Syria
                                    and Gabon and uhm BFE all decide they hate
                                    the U.S. so much they're declaring war.
                                    They pull their ambassadors out and print
                                    bad things about us in their government
                                    run newspapers and on their governement
                                    run tv/radio.  Ok.  Yeah?  So what?  And?
                                    Still waiting....
                                    \_ If we cared more about what
                                        other people thought of us, we
                                        might not have had whackos crashing
                                        planes into buildings.  That's not
                                        enough reason for you to care about
                                        international relations?
                                 \_ Keep on watching CNN little sheep.
                                    \_ I read the NY Times, not the Drudge
                                       Report. And stop trying to pretend
                                       to be 3 separate people posting
                                       to the motd. I know you posted the
                                       other 2 above.
                                        \_ Nothing wrong with the Drudge
                                           Report.  99% of it is just links to
                                           big media newspapers online.  Unless
                                           of course you have a problem with
                                           big media (which you should if
                                           you're smart).
                           \_ As opposed to selling weapons to foreign powers
                              to fund a rebellion against another foreign
                              power?
                                \_ What's wrong with that?  You really don't
                                   see any difference between selling out your
                                   own country and screwing around with some
                                   little banana republic???
                           \_ Non-sequiteur.
                                \_ Not at all.  Care to try again?  Look up
                                   the word "hypocrite" and come back.
                                   \_ And, while we're at it, how to spell
                                      "non sequitur."
2001/12/15 [Uncategorized] UID:23251 Activity:nil
         _ Perhaps you should put this on a web page and post a URL.
        /
2001/12/15 [Computer/SW/Languages, ERROR, uid:23252, category id '31298#8.23' has no name! , ] UID:23252 Activity:high
12/14   i've been contemplating a serious career change, back to teaching
        english.  maybe not in the same form.  i've been how in japan
        there hasn't been enough people with computer skills to handle
        the job requirements so maybe i might try something like that
        there.  but today really disturbed me.  at work two of the senior
        guys were talking about "weeding people out."  i think the thing
        that got to me was the tone that they used.  it was snobbish and
        elitist.  it got me thinking about how the industry works and
        what's been going on.  it's pretty sad actually.  there's quite
        a bit of arrogance on behalf of computer science people.  then i
        read an article over on slashdot which discussed how computer
        science people wanted to be laisse faire regarding policies in
        government.  there's obviously this double
        standard/paradox/oxymoron that is going on that's really irking
        me.  the thing it seems is that computer science people are these
        ayn rand clones that believe they can live in a world of their
        own and as long as no one disturbs them they won't do anything.
        but the thing is that's not realistic and far too egocentric in
        thinking.  it sucks that there are people in CS who do it for the
        money or don't have as sincere of an interest in the field, but
        people have to eat and live.  that's just life.  the problem with
        that mentality is that it still creates an elitism, a social
        divide that does affect people.  i've seen people at interviews
        that have kids and need jobs.  maybe they aren't the best people
        for the job, but you're not going to get perfection.  i dunno.
        it really sickens me to hear that.
        i've become so paranoid that i trust no one at this point.  i
        suspect everyone of doing wrong and being the enemy.  it sucks.
        the thing that's really sad is that i like computing.  but it's
        the people that fuck it up.  same as music.  i like metallica's
        (old) music but i hate them.  i'm starting to think the whole net
        thing is going to end up being like the ending of jurassic park
        1 where everyone, especially the chief scientist, realize that
        it's something that man shouldn't handle because he's incapable
        of the responsibility.  so the secret must be hidden from man
        until he's ready.  perhaps the net revolution will collapse on
        itself as it seems it's doing until it's only utilized by
        researchers in universities again.
        \_ Now _THIS_ is a troll.  Watch and learn, people.
        \_ Buddy, get laid and relax a little. It's only work.
        \_ psb, is that you?
           \- no, you cant just do a key word match. --psb
        \_ See kids, this is what happens when you smoke pot and go to college
        \_ This poster is clearly an idiot or someone posing as one, but (at
           the risk becoming troll bait) I do think libertarians are really
           misguided... and there is a curiously large number of libertarian
           programmers for some reason. anyone have a guess as to why?
           \_ The real world is a messy place. I think these libertarian
              programmers don't like that -- they want to try to reduce
              the world to a small set of simple principals that sweeps
              all the messiness under the rug.
2001/12/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:23253 Activity:nil
12/14   I think we should all work to make sure that every crappy "you must
        login to use" has a csua/csua user/pass combo.
        \_ Ok, I'll cover NY Times, you cover the porn sites. -phil
        \_ Good idea.
2001/12/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:23254 Activity:nil
12/14   [ Troll deleted. ]  It wasn't bad, it just came at a bad time,
        immediately after the WORK OF ART below.  Wow, I still can't believe
        that the motd can still produce such quality material after so many
        years.
        \_ i disagree.  one judges a troll not on some abstaract quality,
           but on the nature and volume of responses.  I'll post my troll
           again in a couple of days, and i bet it will be more effective
           than the one below.  I think that I made a mistake in using
           bad english in the troll, though.  The best trolls are
           *almost* legitimante posts, but have some key flaw that
           peple can attack, thinking they're the only ones who see it.

         _ Perhaps you should put this on a web page and post a URL.
        /
2001/12/15-16 [Recreation/Food] UID:23255 Activity:very high
12/15   A momemnt of silence for Fenton's: http://www.fentonscreamery.com
        \_ This was in the news a few weeks ago.
        \_ They were the restaurant of the bourgeiosie
           \_ What are you smoking? Have you been there? The food is not
              very good. The service horrible. The ice cream is the only thing
              going for the place. It's the reason I am waiting for it
              to re-open.
              \_ Fenton's is a family place, and like most family places,
                 the focus isn't on the food.  The ice cream is pretty damn
                 good.  -tom
                 \_ I thought it was more quantity (ice cream) than
                    quality (ice cream)
              \_ Look up bourgeiosie and realize why you just made a fool
                 out of yourself.
                 \_ I think you've both just made fools of yourselves. First
                    of all, its "bourgeoisie". Second, I can't think of any
                    reason why Fenton's would be a particular example or
                    counter-example of bourgeoisie dining.
                    \_ Why not leave it at "I can't think..."? Since you
                       obviously cannot.
                       \_ man, you're so funny and clever. But if your
                          point is so damn obvious, why don't you just
                          make it?
        \_ I miss Leatherby's.
           \_ Where in Fremont can you find an ice-cream parlour?
              When I was in Jr. High (early 80s), there was Farrell's
              in Fremont Fashion Center.Damn long time ago. What was the
              name of that standalone arcade/bumper-car place in the same
              Nothing beats having ice-cream with your date.
                \_ how about having sex with your date?
              big and Pinball was still king. This was even before
              Chuck E Cheese (PacMan! Tempest!) opened near the Gemco.
              When I was in Jr. High, there was Farrell's Ice Cream
              in Fremont Fashion Center.What was the name of the standalone
              building/nightclub and arcade/bumper-car place in the same
              shopping center? They had the old mechanical baseball arcade
              games. Oh man, long time ago. Space Invaders was just getting
              big and Pinball was still king and games took quarters instead
              of tokens. This was even before Chuck E Cheese (which debuted
              Tempest! Missle Command!) opened near the Gemco. That was the
              first time using tokens.  And what happened to Frontier Village?
              With that fishing pond and sloped floor.
              Okay, back then it wasn't a date, just having ice-cream with
              the girl you liked. All right, secretly liked.
2001/12/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:23256 Activity:nil
12/15   Motd trimmed based on # of responses & age of original.  Trimming was
        not done based on content; sorry if your favorite thread is gone.
2001/12/15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23257 Activity:high 83%like:23265 53%like:36311
12/15   http://www.washtimes.com/national/20011215-68264047.htm
        MOTD POLL:  Bin Laden will:
        Be found dead:   .
        \_ it may take 25 years, but everyone dies eventually.
        Be captured alive:
        Escape:              .
        Surrender:
        Beat back the evil western hordes in the name of Allah: .
        \_ The Washington Times is one of the few newspapers worth reading.
2001/12/15-16 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:23258 Activity:kinda low
12/15   I have cable srevice by at&t, but I don't think this is a problem
        with my cable service.  Basically, I have a linux 2.2 natd box for
        connections from my internal network.  I have win98/ win2k/linux
        behind the natd box.  WHen I ssh out (OpenSSH_2.3.0p1 or ttssh),
        if I am idle for say, 5 mins, the connection is cut..reset
        by peer.  Why does this happen, and how do I fix it?
        \_ I don't have this problem with a similar setup.  Could the other
           side be idling you out?  I _have_ had that problem.
        \_ This is a problem with ipchains. It doesn't have any state, so
           it has no idea about connections and things like that, so to keep
           from having NAT sessions open forever, it has timeouts for inactive
           NAT sessions. I forget where you change this (it's been years since
           I used ipchains, since iptables (linux 2.4 filtering) is so much
           better.) however, I'll bet money that that is your problem. Look
           it up in the ipchains HOWTO, I believe it is in there, and increase
           the timeout for TCP, since the default is something low, like 5
           minutes. There may be a way to get ssh to send connection keep
           alive packets, which would solve the problem without having a large
           timout value, so I'd look into that as well. Or, just switch to
           2.4, and use iptables. Stateful packet filtering is your friend.
               -- ajani
           \_ thanks!  when i was using ipf on openbsd I kind of took this for
              granted.
           \_ NAT is stateful by definition. You can't do NAT without keeping
              session state information. NAT session timeouts exist in all
              implementations, not just ipchains because if you don't expire
              the idle sessions, there is a higher chance that the NAT session
              state table will eventually fill up. What Linux iptables adds is
              a session state tracking for non-NAT sessions as well.
           \_ Uh, the ipchains NAT session timeout default is way bigger than
              a few minutes. Check the HOWTO, it is more like several hours.
2001/12/15-16 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:23259 Activity:nil
12/15   How do you add/change a security certificate in IE 5.0 Mac Edition?
        \_ Evil + Evil = Really Really Really Evil.
           \_ what a shitty answer. typical of the CSUA.
              \_ No shit. Evil + Evil = 2 * Evil.
              \_ hmmm, let's see... this is a question about Microsoft software
                 on a Macintosh asked on a computer science unix machine
                 populated by uber geeks and wanna-be uber geeks.  What were
                 the odds you'd get a real answer?  Anyway, sorry if it's been
                 a while since I had a math course.  I defer to the greater
                 math skills of the person who replied 2*Evil.  I was wrong,
                 so shoot me.
2001/12/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:23260 Activity:nil
12/15   http://www.berkeleyartisans.com
2001/12/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23261 Activity:nil
12/14   Al Qaeda Training Manual
        http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/trainingmanual.htm
        It was mentioned in an NY times article but not linked. I google'd
        it on usdoj.gov. Pretty interesting read about some of what the
        terrorists are learning/teaching.
2001/12/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:23262 Activity:high 50%like:21883
12/15   Motd Poll
        Think Different:
        Dude, yer gettin a Dell:
        \_ What was wrong with my poll?  Why do people destroy such simple
           non-offensive things?:     ...
2017/09/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/19    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:December:15 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>