12/9 How come the media likes to talk about 1-2 dead Israelis but rarely
talks about thousands of Palistinians killed by Israelis gunship?
Are Palistianian lives less worthy than Israelis? -conscious jew
\_ Who has more influence in the US media? Jews or Palistinians?
\_ Who has more influence in the US media? Jews or Palestinians?
\_ Ultra Leftists.
\_ That woman, Ms. Lewinsky.
\_ Ah ha! Exactly! Jew Temptress ruins career of
pro-Palestinian President with aid from Jew controlled
anti-Palestinian right wing media!
\_ Yes.
\_ When the oppressed side has suicide bombers who say things like
death to all the jews and explode themselves in public places,
the press tends to take the oppressors side. If the Palestinian
people started to use non-violent means of protest, we might
see something different.
On a different note, I think the Israel-Palestine situation is
all about provoking the other side into doing something that
plays especially badly in the press, and claiming victimhood
while you're fucking the other side back.
\_ The Palestinians were at one point much less violent, at
least for a people who had their homeland stolen. But they
got no attention (positive or negative) until they carried
out some gruesome acts of terrorism. Israel's PR system is
enough to give any Redmond spin doctor a woody. Once they
had the ear of the international community, the Palestinians
tried peace, but Israel continuously baited them.
\_ The Palestinians tried peace? Are you intentionally ignorant?
1999. Arafat walked away from 99% of everything he had been
asking for. They gave him everything. He refused to talk
further and then called for more intifada.
\_ How much of the Right of Return was offered?
0% you mean, not 99%. This is a right guaranteed
by the UN and all signatories to the Geneva Convention.
\_ Israel offered 20k. Arafat wanted 400k. There was no
further discussion since Arafat fled the talks without
counter offering. Sorry for providing facts that don't
match your opinions.
\_ 20k != 90% 400k.
IF he offered 99%, he might as well have gone 100%...
\_ There were many other things offered and on the
table than any right of return. You're not being
honest if you look at one thing which Arafat
didn't even *try* to talk about and say it's all
Israel's fault when he got just about everything
he was asking for on every other topic. If you're
going to be intentionally intellectually dishonest
then we can stop right now, you can get the last
post and walk away thinking you're really smart.
\_ I'm not blaming Israel. I'm just saying that
99% is utter bullshit, but the 20k/400k analogy
is much more accurate.
\_ And another thing: The West Bank belonged to
Jordan. It's Jordanian land if not Israel's. If
you think it should be "returned" to anyone, it
should be "returned" to Jordan, a Palestinian
country, not Arafat, a Palestinian terrorist.
\_ All this tells me is that the Palestinians must TRAIN HARDER.
It is not an understatement to say that with each day that
Hamas, Islamic Jihad, et al. continue to exist as they are,
the Palestinian people will suffer just much more for it.
\_ You know I'm not big on Isreal BUT you have a pretty
revisionist version of history there.
\_ read this article without getting mad:
http://www.harpers.org/online/gaza_diary/?pg=1 - danh
\_ The Palestinians better stop the suicide bombing, yes?
\_ It makes me mad that people with such obvious prejudice and
bias can be published in major papers (although the NYT is known
to be heavily biased) and get taken seriously by anyone as a
reporter. Once again all the Arabs have names and faces and are
real people and the Israelis are the Evil Faceless Hordes.
This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about earlier
concerning media bias against Israel and in favor of terrorist
suicide bombers. Yes, it makes me mad.
\_ i guess this proves soda is very diverse. I read an awful lot
of print media, and i would say in the articles I read
(I don't confine myself to reading left wing hippie rags either)
the palestinians are faceless, and the israelis are portrayed
in a more favorable light. yes no one is blameless, but i think
the article is pretty good at depicting the palestinians as living
in completely miserable economic conditions. feel free to
refute! - danh
\_ How come we always hear from the families of the suicide bombers
but never from the families of the real victims? Are Jewish victims
worth less than Muslim terrorists?
\_ I don't hear anything about families of suicide bombers.
Much more common is Palestinian police/kids getting whacked.
\_ You don't? I read several papers every day. Most of the
suicide bombings have names and interviews with the bomber's
family but the victims are just body count. What exactly
are you reading that you're unaware of this?
\_ nytimeslatimescnnwashingtonpostjpostmsnbc
okay, I should qualify what I said before to
"I hear 2x-3x more about the kids/policeman getting
whacked than the suicide bombers families."
\_ Then you're reading but not comprehending. All of
these sources do exactly as I said. In the future
(god, there's a sick thought) after a suicide
bombing in Israel see how many victim names you
get vs. the bomber and his family and see who gets
most extreme version of distorsion and pure hatred.
interviewed, if anyone. Keep track.
\_ They talk about the Jewish families in http://jpost.com
naturally. As for the U.S. outlets, they
don't usually, I admit, and say stuff like
"young people out for a good time got blown up."
\_ There is a tendency to accuse anyone with the slightest
concern for Isreali action of bias and prejudice, while
editors like William Safire of the NYT get away with the
most extreme version of distortion and pure hatred.
That the gaza diary is posed on http://harpers.org online rather
than in NYT on paper is a good example. Recently for
various reasons there is a bit more coverage for the
Palestinian plight but I suspect it will be shortlived.
I have been reading the NYT for many years and they almost
always report suide bombing of Isreal as a profound
tragedy, while only occasionally make passing mention of
the brutal oppression the people under the occupation has
to endure. Whenever they do, my Isreali friend will cry
"bias bias," and some other will cry "anti-semitic." Deep
in their heart they know there is something seriously
wrong, something contradictory to all the good liberal
and often socialist education fed to them by the Ashkenazi
labor government. But when their conscience conflicts and
challenges their country's very legitemacy of existence
and the morality of their daily life, they enter into
vehement and violent denial, just like almost anyone else
would. The Gaza diary link was posted before but removed
And yes, the Palestinians are brutal and stupid with all the
suicide bomging. If someone even tries to run Americans
out of their American dream homes, we will be sure to drop
tons of cluster, oxygen depleting, bunker busting bombs
on them. The Isreali and the Palestinians are far more
alike, both genetically and mentally, then they both like
to admit. Many researches show that most Palestinians are
not Arabs but Jews who adopted Islam. I believe if their
positions are switched they will behave exactly the same.
\_ The day I see Hamas/Islamic Jihad/PFLP renounce
Israeli armies in the earlier wars and laugh at that.
Israelis believe in strength, as exemplified by Sharon.
The Palestinians just cannot impress them with the
inefficient and ineffective method of suicide bombing
and a kill ratio that tilts heavily against themselves.
terrorist acts or rendered ineffective by Israeli,
international, or Palestinian deeds, is the day
I start feeling sympathy for the Palestinian cause.
Until then, Israel in my book can assassinate leaders
of these organizations and continue acting oppressive.
- I don't necessarily believe what I just wrote, but I
sure bet a lot of Israelis do.
\_ How much will that sympathy help them? Isrealis
think the Palestinains fled in the face of advancing
Israeli army in the earlier wars without a good fight
and they laugh at that. Israelis believe in strength,
as exemplified by Sharon. The Palestinians just cannot
impress them with the inefficient and ineffective
method of suicide bombing and a kill ratio that tilts
heavily against themselves.
\_ My friend, sympathy is the key. The world turning
a blind eye to the Palestinian cause is because
of the wasting away of a sympathy.
\_ I am far more pessimistic. I think the
Palestinian cause is a lost one. Even if the
world does not turn a blind eye, so what?
The strong one wins.
\_ What about South Africa? What about
Ireland?
\_ In South Africa the white is such an
isolated minority that unless their black
killing virus had worked, they would always
be demographically weak. And no U.S.
government will saction Isreal. As for
Ireland, I don't see it as a total victory
for IRA, whose cause is not worth much
sympathy regardless of the violence or not.
But they have proven such a headache for
GB that the latter had to make some
concession. This is an exemple in which
terrorism actually worked, to some extent
at least. By the way, the biggest backers
of the IRA is the Irish catholic community
in the U.S.
\_ You know, there has to be something wrong when the military wing
of Fatah is named "Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade"
\_ Easy enough to understand: when a Jewish settler kills a
Palestinian it is "self-defence," when a Palestinian does the
same it is "terror." When the Mossad assasinates a Palestinian
leader it is "justice," when Hamas assasinates an Isreali leader
it is "terror." When Ireali rockets blow up Palestinian homes
and civlians: "justice." Palestinian suicide bombers: "terror."
Any further questions?
\_ Yes. Where'd you get this shit? When a settler kills a
palestinian, they pick up his ass for murder charges. When the
Israeli army kills a known palestinian bombing planner, it is
self-defense. When Hamas murders an Israeli leader (who had
resigned, btw), it is murder. When Israeli rockets blow up the
buildings from which mortars are fired into Israeli civilian
areas it is self-defense. Palestinian suicide bomers blowing
up kids at the disco (no crime having bad taste in music) is
murder. Any questions?
\_ Easy enough to understand: Palestinian fanatics make an
effort to kill as many Israeli civilians as possibe; Mossad
tries to kill Palestinian fanatics. As for Jewish settlers
and Palestinian residents shooting at each other, many
wouldn't be so anti-Palestinian today if there weren't any
suicide bombers. Anyways, like I said, Israel provokes the
fanatics with settlements, erecting a police state, and acting
like oppressors in general -- its the radicals' fault if they
continue to blow themselves up in shopping areas in response.
\_ Israel cleaned *all* of the settlers out of the Sinai to
get a guaranteed peace with Egypt so we know Israel is
willing to do such a thing. The problem here is that Arafat
nor any other Palestinian leader can or will grant Israel
any sort of peace, guaranteed or otherwise. Get some real
leadership on the palestinian side that can guarantee a peace
and there'll be something to talk about.
\_ Although they lost the war, Egypt was too big for Israel
to destroy as a whole, so Israel was willing to clean the
settlers out for a peace treaty. My Isreali colleagues,
self-described "leftists", all claim they do not really
care about the settlement but want to use it as a
bargaining chip. So it seems fair that the Palestinians
have nothing but suicice bombing as *their* bargaining chip. |
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