Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:December:07 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2001/12/7 [Computer/SW/Unix/WindowManager] UID:23169 Activity:very high
12/6    After almost 10 years on tvtwm, I'm ready for a switch.  This is
        on a solaris box and I have no root.  Can I still run KDE or
        GNOME or some other fancy GUI? What other desktop environments are
        there for solaris when I don't have root?  Thanks.
        \_ wmaker (I just compiled it myself without asking root).
                \_ ditto.  Did the same thing on my Sun too.
        \_ You can compile both KDE and GNOME without root, but it's a royal
           pain in the ass (something like 40 separate packages).  You could
           use Solaris' built-in CDE, which sucks but is probably better
           than tvtwm.  -tom
        \_ My personal favorite window manager is ctwm.  I don't think it
           offers much more than tvtwm though.  Why do you feel like switching?
           I've tried Gnome and various gnome window managers and have
           found no compelling reason to switch away from ctwm.
           ctwm is not hard to compile, usually a 5 minute task for me.
                --PeterM
           \_ Agreed.  And KDE is the complete "we will make your choices for
              you" desktop environment, not just a window manager.  --dbushong
       \_ I would have to agree with the above posters that unless you are a
          glutton for punishment, compiling KDE or Gnome is simply not what
          you want. If you really want to switch to something other than *twm,
          I would recommend blackbox, since it's very small, fast, and easy
          to compile and configure and all that. -- ajani
        \_ Not to be the big spoilsport or anything, but what's wrong with
           what you've got?  A window manager just needs to manage windows
           which the old WMs do quite well. Move/raise/lower/resize/etc.
           What more is there?  I installed several of the whizzy bang WMs
           and didn't see the point.  It was more like playing a video game
           than having control of my workspace.  And they ran much slower too.
           Even the so-called "fast" ones.  -baffled
           \_ I'm looking to make my workspace fancier.  10 years on the
              same thing is making me feel like I'm an old man.  Of course,
              10 years on unix and text-based mail readers also make me
              feel that way.  :-)  Change is good.  I need a change.
                \_ So you want to change a perfectly functional environment
                   for an inferior one just so you won't feel 30?  Here's a
                   friendly tip: changing WMs won't make you look any younger
                   than changing gf/wives.  The first makes you look less
                   UNIX GURU(tm) than you are and the second makes you look
                   desperate and stupid.
                   \_ On the contrary, I think twm makes you look "hardcore"
                   \_ On the contrary, changing your gf/wife can make
                      you a lot younger
                      \_ If "hardcore" means "unix guru" then that's what I
                         was saying.  All the bells and whistles and shit
                         are for kids.  Like the kid said, "Silly Rabbit!
                         Tricks are for kids!  Men use twm!"  Or something
                         like that....
                         \_ "Real Men use vi!"  --- emacs user
                            \_ wussies use emacs?
                         \_ It sounded like you were saying "the first
                            (wm, ie twm) makes you look less GURU and the
                            second (wm, ie kde) ...", not "first point: x,
                            second point y."
                   \_ Mid-life crisis for geeks. Tis to laugh.
                       \_ priceless. this is why i keep this account.
                          \_ Why does this sound like a commercial?
2001/12/7 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:23170 Activity:nil
12/6    I have heard that Microsoft is making June 2002 job offers
        to UCLA computer science seniors this week.  Is this also
        happening at Cal?  Has anyone heard anything about recent
        or upcoming job offers from Microsoft or other software firms?
        Thanks for any info.  -mas
2001/12/7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:23171 Activity:high
12/6    What job sites are people getting most mileage from these days?
        I am talking about senior engineers who have been laid off thanks
        to dot.bombs.
        \_ http://dice.com
        \_ http://hotjobs.com worked for me -ausman
           \_ as a recruiter, I prefer http://hotjobs.com for job postings
              and searching for new resumes. -mas
              \_ so from a recruiter, can you tell me why companies emphasis
                 only on industrial experience?  I can understand if someone
                 wasn't a CS major turned programmer, then yeah industrial
                 experience is what indicates that person's skill.  However,
                 most industrial programming is not as rigorous as UCB projects
                 This is my second job.  1st job I was doing win32 programming,
                 this job I am doing Java programming.  Compare to UCB CS
                 projects they are so simple.  I do have a few co-workers here
                 who were purely industrially turned programmers.  I constantly
                 hear them bitching about how hard it is to debug in java; and
                 get this, they don't trust what the error message says from
                 the compiler/server, incredible!  The problem is they don't
                 have the skills to track down a problem.  They have about 6-10
                 years industrial exp, whereas I have only 4.  Buy their 6-10
                 is nothing from what I see. =D
                 \_ you have stumbled onto the Great Equestrian Paradox:
                    why are there more horse's asses in the world than there
                    are horses?
                 \_ sounds like you're working with a bunch of idiots...
                    find a new job or ask for a raise.    - ! a recruiter
                 \_ Skills vary. Companies trust Industry because they can't
                    tell much from school experience, even prestigious schools.
                    Being good at school doesn't always translate into being
                    good in the industry. Working in teams, within standards,
                    with changes happening constantly, being on time and on
                    budget without burning yourself or those around you out
                    are some of the considerations. Unless you've done
                    something impressive while at school, you need to earn
                    trust and respect. It sucks, but that's life.
                 \_ I've interviewed PhDs from good schools with years of
                    experience that couldn't code a simple TCP server.  I
                    believe that it comes down to the person rather than
                    what experience they have (school or job-based).
                    What really sucks is when someone with a lot of experience
                    is interviewing for a coding job, but gets insulted when
                    you ask them a coding question during the interview.
                    They expect their experience to get them the job without
                    having to prove that they can code.  Those types don't
                    get past the first round where I work.
2001/12/7 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:23172 Activity:high
12/6    An idiot (who happens to be the architect) in our group keeps using
        PC for development and it appears that every single indentation is
        tabs (probably a VisualJ or JDeveloper guy). How do I make my emacs
        recognize tabs so that emacs will display them correctly ? Thanks.
        \_ add (setq default-tab-width 4) to your .emacs file to set tab stops
           to every 4 spaces, or better yet, read the help for the "untabify"
           function.
        \_ The coding standard for your project should define how wide a
           tab stop is.  If you find that width painful to look at, then
           the use of tabs for indentation will allow you to easily view
           it with a different tab width (though you will still be
           responsible for ensuring that your code looks right when
           viewed with the standard tab width; your coding standard should
           also define the maximum permissible line length, which you
           would then need to be more careful of).  I suggest you look at
           your project's coding standard and find out which one of you is
           right -- Indenting with 8-character-wide tabs to a maximum of
           80 characters is *very* common (at least among unix kernels).
           Where I work, he'd be right, you'd be wrong, and you'd be required
           to go through and correct everything you'd tabbed with spaces.
           \_ I had a simular situation with some people I'm working with
              via CVS.  Eventually we decided to indent with spaces,
              since a space is always a space, but a tab can look different
              in different environments.  --PeterM
           \_ This is all fine and good but if the architect doesn't buy
              into it from the get go, you might as well give up. Cuz if
              he isn't sticking to the coding standards no one else will.
              Some people could care less what code looks like.
2001/12/7 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:23173 Activity:nil
12/6    In Java, == means the same object whereas .equals() means whatever
        you want it to be (e.g. same lexical value) right?
        \_ Yes.
2001/12/7 [Uncategorized] UID:23174 Activity:nil
12/7    60 years
2001/12/7 [Computer/SW/OS, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:23175 Activity:very high
12/6    I don't think this question has been asked recently, and I am
        curious: where do you work, and what do you do at your job?  It
        would be nice to be more specific than "I am a computer
        programmer", but then again the motd is not known for being nice.
        Oh, and why do you work where you work, doing what you do?
        \_ why do you care?
           \_ it says "I am curious" above ...
        \_ grad skool
        \_ I am a code monkey.
        \_ "water resources consulting engineer" - a day's work is largely at
           the computer using spreadsheets or writing/revising documents plus
           a good deal of research on the web or existing documents. Some
           Fortran modeling and some field work. No design work. The clients
           are almost all Indian tribes.
        \_ Anyone a "consultant"?  What is the rough consensus on what a
           "consultant" is?  -- clueless code monkey
           \_ I am a consultant.  I work for a services company.  They get
              a client who needs a given job done which is in my company's
              area of expertise, so we manage a project to get it done.  I
              am one of the people who "does the actual work" (as opposed to
              making the sale, managing the project, or managing the client)
        \_ English Major for life
        \_ why is everyone giving such bitch answers for this? I think its
           an interesting question and I'd be curious to hear the various
           responses as well. I, for example, took a year off school to
           work at a dying start-up. It died, now I'm back to finish my
           senior year.
           \_ hear hear.  I guess I should answer, too, seeing as I
              started this topic.  I graduated in 1997, spent 3 years at a
              large systems vendor in their kernel networking group, and
              escaped last year to work in a similar group at a mid-size
              IP networking company.  I graduated not really caring about
              computer science, but have grown to actually like what I
              do.  - original poster
        \_ sysadmin. mostly disk management of a few dozen terabytes. boring.
           pays well. laid off. first good job offer after numerous crap
           low ball offers. checks clear. benefits average. no options.
           waiting for economy to improve to get real job.
        \_ code monkey.  i've designed cpu's, image processing chips,
           workstations, multi-processor computers, switching fabrics, and
           big router boxes.  i'm now an architect-in-residence for a vc.
        \_ code money 2. been coding for a while, but spend 1/2 of my time
           debugging legacy code written by people who left after i joined,
           and another 1/4 on pointless meetings. i am starting to hate my
           job but i gotta work to support my family. got a $700,000 house
           in santa clara and other shit too.
                \_ $700,000 house....  that's quite the boat anchor.
                \_ I gotcha. There is a lot more to life than coding 15 hours
                   a day doing something really cool that you enjoy-- like
                   spending all of your vacation at Home Depot and doing
                   upgrades and mowing the lawn.
        \_ Executive Director at a medium-sized non-profit.
           Responsibilities include development (fund-raising), event
           organization, and that catch-all term, "outreach". Salary is
           better than the academy, less than business.
        \_ grad school; then academy; still looking for permanent position.
           Never married; never owned a house.  Travel around the world;
           manage time my own way but worries about the next job.
           Bank account always < $10,000, usually much less; never owned
           a single stock, options etc.  Sometimes happy, sometimes sad,
           but not often bored.  Doing what I enjoy but there are things
           that I miss, and I certainly would not mind getting paid also
           at an enjoyable level.  I am not saying I am better or worse
           than others.  I am just answering your query.
2001/12/7-9 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:23176 Activity:nil
12/7    Since when did the Hummer start to be made by GM instead of
        AM General!?
        \_ Most of my hummers are courtesy of yer mom.
           (That was my first ever motd yer mom joke.  Comments welcome.)
        \_ GM owns AM General.
2001/12/7-8 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:23177 Activity:very high
12/7    Polling sodans on dotbomb failures.  Which dotbomb have you worked
        for?  I remember some people bitching about http://thirdvoice.com a while
        back.  Also http://bigbook.com.  Which other loser companies have sodans
        touched and destroyed?
        \_ feeling a little bitter there, troll-boy?
           \_ dude, relax. how is this a troll?
                \_ I worked thirdvoice.  I never bitched about it.  I sure
                   as hell didn't destroy it.  It's a troll.  -ex-3V
                   \_ "sarcasm" and "hyperbole." Try looking those up.
                        \_ Uh oh.  Found a real person who was there so you
                           back off.  Ok.  No problem.  Apology accepted.
                           \_ Uhh no. Try "sarcasm" and "hyperbole" in
                              regards to the orginal post, hyper-sensitive
                              guy.
                              \_ I can read.  I know what it says.  It's a
                                 troll.  If it wasn't they would've stopped
                                 after the first line.  Call it whatever you'd
                                 like and repaint it anyway you'd like.
        \_ <DEAD>MyTurn.com<DEAD>
        \_ http://gamers.com (still looking for a job and yes I am a big luzer)
        \_ http://channela.com
        \_ Just because someone worked at a place doesn't mean they destroyed
           it.  Take the troll elsewhere.
        \_ http://thirdvoice.com
        \_ http://wego.com (not fully bombed yet)
        \_ http://wired.com/hotwired.com
        \_ http://inktomi.com
        \_ http://c2.com
           \_ maybe you mean http://c2.net, which was not a failure. Sold
              to RHAT for $42M. (14x sales, 420x ROI)
        \_ ArsDigita... arguably not a dotcom, but now is failing like one.
        \_ http://wfn.com
        \_ http://cp.net (CriticalPath)
        \_ http://Adjectivity.com is still around, still has money, and had 5
           sodans at one point, including 3 former presidents, and 2 former
           vice presidents.
        \_ http://Autobytel.com, still limping along, left there a long time ago
        \_ link:PeopleFirst.com, just got bought by CapitalOne for $173 mil.
2001/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:23178 Activity:kinda low
12/7    I'm looking around the IEEE website and google and can't find the
        POSIX specifications for multi-threading.  Help, please!
        \_ You have to pay IEEE to view the POSIX standards online:
                http://standards.ieee.org/catalog/olis/index.html
           If they've been incorporated into the Single Unix Spec (many
           parts of POSIX have been), you may be able to find them online
           for free at:
                http://www.opengroup.org/austin
                \_ Thanks.  I eventually did find a line somewhere that says
                   the stuff is pay-only and they only do electronic dist. to
                   paying members which is pretty pricey for what I need.
                   I'll check out the austin group thing and see if my spec is
                   in there.
2001/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/Security, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23179 Activity:high
12/7    What is the best way to transfer funds between accounts in U.S. and
        another country (in Europe) without fee or getting riped off
        by special conversion rate?  The amount is small and just to cover
        my expenses when I travel or order internationally, i.e. < $2000.
        \_ My dad has a US checking account at B of A.  Every month I make
           a deposit to his account at a branch here, and he withdraws the
           money at a branch in Hong Kong.  No transaction fee, but I don't
           know if the conversion rate is the same as the standard rate.
           \_ I asked at the Bank of America in Hong Kong whether
              one can access his US account in HK, the answwer I get
              is plain no, as Bank of America Asia supposedly cannot
              access account of its parent bank in US.  If you are
              converting from USD to a foreign currency, you are bound
              to pay a conversion fee (3% I think in most banks). You
              can open an USD account in a more established financial
              houses (like SG), so you can withdraw funds outside of US
              much more easily.  But for $2000, it's easier to get
              travel's checks.
              \_Tnx for the reply.  However often the need to transfer
                money arises and the amount becomes known while I am outside
                U.S., not to mention carrying traveler's check is like
                carrying cash other than being much safer.
                \_ I've heard from a lot of people that ATMs are good,
                   you get better (minimal but still significant)
                   fees. Better than changing cash out.
                   \_ but you cannot deposit foreign currency to your account
                        from abroad.
                        \_ Go back and read the stated objective, duud.
                \_ Use your credit card. You'll get the best exchange rate
                   and if you pay it off, the fee will be minimal. No cash
                   that you need to carry which should eliminate the cost of
                   foreign->US.
                   \_ Depends. While I was in Europe this past summer, it was
                      cheapest for me to just withdraw cash from ATMs: BofA
                      was tacking a "foreign currency conversion fee" to each
                      of my CC transactions, while for the ATM withdrawals, I
                      was getting the interbank exchange rate without any
                      additional fees.  When I lived in Germany, I had my
                      paychecks direct-deposited to my credit union account
                      in the US and paid for everything in cash: if my needs
                      exceeded the daily transaction limit, I planned ahead
                      and visited the ATM multiple days in a row.  If you
                      want an account at a bank that has a presence on both
                      sides of the Atlantic, I've heard that Citibank and
                      HSBC are good choices for US->Europe expatriates,
                      although I have no experience with either.  -- kahogan
                \_ which ever route you choose, make sure you don't go to
                   the foreign currency exchange booth at traverler's spots.
                   Their rate is horrible.  (something like 8%)
              \_ That's strange.  Maybe my dad makes his withdrawal by writing
                 himself a check and then cash it at a B of A branch there?
                 I've never asked him.
                 \_  The more I think about it, this is a good way for money

                     laundry.
                 \_ Yes, this is exactly how my father got money at a BofA
                        branch in Taiwan.
2001/12/7-8 [Uncategorized] UID:23180 Activity:nil
12/7    Anybody ever own land in London?
        \_ The City of London or the London metro area?
          \_ Either will do. You did, then?
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:December:07 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>