11/7    I hate math 55. If CS is an extension of math 55, I'm gonna drop out.
        \_ if you don't like math 55 you are better off doing something else
           with your life.  You will not be happy as a programmer.
           \_ I don't think math55 is a good measure of what a career in cs
              is like.
              \_ career in CS or a career in programming?  they are not the
                 same thing.
                 \_ *sigh*
                    \_ well, obviously if you just want to be a code monkey,
                       you don't need to be able to grok math55.  hell, you
                       don't need to go to college either.
                       \_ What's your definition of a code monkey?
                          \_ me.want(obBanana);...
                          \_ well, if you have a million monkeys sitting in
                             front of a million terminals for a million years..
                             \_ You end up with many dead monkeys?
                             \_ UCB undergrad CS labs?
            \_ Definitely, most CS majors have no pure theoretical interests,
               they are looking for a well paying job; math 55 will definitely
               help sharpen certain mental attributes, but most of CS is long
               work at the lab and understanding of the theory in 170 series..
               \_ false dichotomy: pure theoretical interest vs. looking for
                  well paying job. there are many cs research areas that are
                  not theory and some (not many) theory-type jobs that pay
                  well.
                  \_ Well, I think the really smart ones go out and get high
                     paying theory type jobs. The fact of the matter is that the
                     average CS graduate (undergrad) is not going to be the next
                     brilliant theory head, and will just want a good salary and
                     a good work enivironment.  Oh yes, btw, I think you have to
                     be absolutely brilliant to do theory type jobs, I dont
                     think most people fall into that catgeory either.
                    \_ The really smart ones format their motd entries
                       correctly.
        \_ there are certainly CS areas that don't need as much discrete
           math, e.g. AI, information modelling, or networking even.  but if
           you hate continuous math (calculus, series, etc) too, then give
           up now!  any heavy CS requires a math strength _somewhere_..
           \_ Um, graph theory is used pretty heavily in the above disciplines,
              and Math 55 is a great introduction to graph theory.
           \_ AI doesn't need discrete math?  I see...
              \_ Well... it depends how intelligent you want it to be.
                \_ no, it doesn't. AI needs as much combinatorics, graph
                   theory, and numerics as any other aspect of CS. you're
                   deluded. if you don't understand math 55, you don't
                   understand algorithm. if you don't understand algorithm,
                   you're doing something else. and you certainly don't need
                   to know what they teach you in university to do those things.
                   \_ that was sarcasm, but thanks for the rant.
        \_ I feel for ya. I hated Discrete Math as well (even though I didn't
           take it at Cal). There're many things in life that won't require
           Discrete Math and don't let that intimidate you from pursuing CS.
           Besides (this is going to totally invite spam), you don't always
           get to work in fields that you majored in. Most people would take
           a job in fields that they're "trained" on; whether trained in
           school, internship, etc. AFAIK, system administration doesn't
           require Discrete Math. But at the same time, when you commit
           yourself to CS at Berkeley, you're setting yourself up for research,
           software/system development or teaching.

11/7    Look what we're doing to those poor innocent people in Afghanistan!
        http://www.taipeitimes.com/news/2001/11/08/story/0000110619

11/8    What did people think about the Afghanistan South Park Episode?
        \_ Is there an echo in here?
           \_ pedantic
           \_ wow.  there is a user with a middle name of Echo
           \_ echo in here?
              \_ in here?

11/7    Happy 84th Annivesary of the CCCP.
        \_ You mean BOCP.  CCCP was established in 1923, last time I checked.
        \_ YPA!!

11/7    I'm graduating in May.  Has ee122 improved at all?  I don't want
        to waste my time.
        \_ No. It sucks. Don't waste your time. Take something more useful,
           like underwater basket weaving. At least you might get a good
           prof and perhaps your GSI will have clue.
        \_ It is more dependent on the professor teaching it than other classes.
           http://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/prof-query?walrand_j
           The last EE 122 numbers for Walrand are not encouraging. -mgoodman
           \_ Walrand's book was the most ridiculously priced POS textbook I
              bought at Berkeley.  God, taking EE122 was a mistake.
        \_ So it seems unanimous that this class is a waste of time...
           So what is another good way to learn this material? Is there a
           really good book on the subject?
           \_ TCP/IP Illustrated, by Stevens.  -- misha.
              \_ thanks for the suggestion... I highly doubt that this is
                 legal, but the full text of the first volume of this book
                 appears to be online for all those interested:
                   http://starlet.deltatel.ru/tcp_stivens
        \_ the only time it was good was when kevin fall taught it.
           but I think too many students bitched and moaned about how
           unfair it was that they had to do real coding projects with
           real protocols when they expected an easy handful of units
           that it has reverted back to lameness again
           \_ The class sucked with Kevin Fall. Yes, the project was cool,
              but he was the single worst prof that I had at Berkeley. Yes,
              worse than even Smith (!). Fall didn't really seem to care about
              the students, spoke in a monotone, had uninteresting homeworks
                            \_ Yeah, at least when Walrand teaches, you get to
                               be amused by his fruity accent!
              and tests, bad TAs, etc. The project was good, but not enough
              to redeem the class.

11/7    So, okay, I'm 1/2 way through math 55 and I don't see how relevant
        it is to computer science. any comment?         -clueless sophomore
        \_ Take CS170 (and 172/174 if you have the time). You'll get a good
           whiff of why 55 is vital to CS. Even 150/164/188 will rely on
           snippets of it. -alexf
           \_ Unless, of course, you take the class from Kahan.  In which
              case, none of the class will be relevant... to anything.
              Unless, of course, you are a math prodigy.  Then it will be
              relevant to increasing your nerddom.
              \_ Kahan will be teaching math 128B next semester, Im preparing
                 NOW FYI, anyone else taking it, be prepared to have backup
                 classes so you can drop this!
                 \_ I wish somebody told me this a few years ago.  I am going
                    to go back to Berkeley to beat him up someday.
                        - screwed by kahan.
                    to go back to Berkeley to beat him up someday.  "You are
                    stupid" was what he told a friend of mine who worked for
                    him.  - screwed by kahan.
        \_ Sit through it and hope you gain clue some day.
        \_ realize that computer science is that to which math 55 is
           relevant.
                \_ Hm, good point.

11/7    I've noticed that, when I use PGP on soda, it spits a chain
        of hex numbers that I don't need to see. Does anybody
        know the flag to get rid of all that? It's not on the man
        page and I wouldn't even know what to check on google.
                                                    --ulysses
        \_ 2>/dev/null ?

11/7    Let's say you got laid off but you still have mail and packages going
        to your company. How do you go about getting them?
        \_ File a forwarding card with U.S.P.S. I've done it before. - jthoms
           \_ what about fedex/whatnot?
                \_ what about them?  Those are short term near-over night
                   services.  Why would someone fexed you something after you
                   were gone?

11/8    Is there any truth to this (Israeli detained for celebrating WTO)?
http://www.americanfreepress.net/11_03_01/Suspects_Still_Held/suspects_still_held.html
        \_ are you serious?  look around the website.  I don't know where
           to start, the racist christian identity site banners?
           new world order paranoia?  ok i actually
           agree with
http://www.americanfreepress.net/08_25_01/Banksters_to_Discuss_Phony_Age/banksters_to_discuss_phony_age.html
        \_ Well, if I thought it was a credible source I wouldn't have asked
        here on the motd  :-), but just because someone is, say, racist, does
        not mean everything he says is false.  The reason I searched and
        found that article is that an Israeli friend with no sympathy for
        Arabs learned from an Israeli newspaper that a dozen Israeli had been
        detained since 9/11 for simply taping the events and are now
        represented by Alan Dershowitz, something I have never heard of.
        Also, I do distinctively remember in the day of the attack, TV news
        reported "several Middle-eastern looking people were arrested in NY
        after being seen celebrating," just as related in the article above.
        But I never heard what happened to them afterward.
        \_ They were released.

11/8    I bought a home with a big round satellite dish (about 8'
        diameter) on the roof.  The dish is see-through like a net, not solid
        like the DirectTV kind.  Neither the previous owner nor my real-estate
        agent know how to use it.  Is there certain service that I need to
        subscribe to?  (I assume the dish is for some kind of TV service.)
        Does anyone have any company name or phone number that I can call?
        Thanks for any info.
        \_ Watch the movie Heat. you can get soooper secrit bank codes
           right out of the air and make millions!!!!
           \_ You misinterpreted the scene. The guy knew when the bank was
              getting cash because of increased number of signals.
              \_ huhuhuhuh...there's TA in that movie..
                 \_ Brutha, you are going down...

11/8    A little late, but how was Monsters, Inc?  Were there a lot of kids
        in the theatre? Or mostly adults?
        \_ I was feeling really depressed and it really helped to bring
           my spirits up with all the cuteness.  I did not like Shrek
           very much, this movie is much better.
        \_ I enjoyed it. A lot. More so than Shrek or Toy Story 1/2. There
           were definitely more kids in the theater than the average film,
           but not overwhelmingly so.
        \_ pretty good movie.
        \_ Funny movie. Better than previous pixar offerrings. Unless
           you absolutely have to see the eps2 trailer show up a bit late
           as the number of previews for annoying kid movies is a bit much.
        \_ The Pixar short film in the beginning was hilarious.
           \_ Some other shorts at Spike & Mike's were better.
           \_ Yeah, that one with the bird was great...

11/8    Quick math 55 poll please:
        Took 55, find it useful as a programmer :.
        Took 55, find it useful as a theorist   :.
        Took 55, find it *completely* useless   :..
        Didn't take 55                          :

11/7    Look what we're doing to those poor innocent people in Afghanistan!
      http://www.studentmagazine.com/thisweek/thisweek_article.asp?articleID=213