Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:September:18 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2001/9/18 [Uncategorized/Multicategory] UID:22495 Activity:insanely high
9/17    Ok, so basically, no one has an answer to what we should do other
        than take some sort of military action?  I include assasination and
        elite strike force hit-squad activity as military action and doing
        anything to oust a foreign government as a form of pseudo-military
        action as well.  I'm honestly surprised the motd is so pro-war.
        \_ I wonder, given how badass the US is at cryptography, about
           mounting a massive cypher attack with the intent of identifying
           bin Laden's bank accounts and freezing them. This would be
           very illegal but perhaps a good use of the NSA and its talent.
           --ulysses
        \_ Hit squads are NOT military action. such things don't endanger
           the general population, nor do they put large numbers of troops
           at risk. Not that I'm advocating either way. I'd like us to commit
           thousands of troops unilaterally to fighting any and all countries
           where Osama could be, as long as it's not a big scary country like
           China or Russia.
           very illegal but perhaps a good use of the NSA and its talent.
           --ulysses
        \_ Hit squads are NOT military action. such things don't endanger
           the general population, nor do they put large numbers of troops
           at risk. Not that I'm advocating either way.
           \_ I stand corrected.  I shall clarify.  Rather than "military"
              let me use the phrase, "non-violent".  Taken that way, what I
              said still stands.
        \_ With the support of some Muslim allies, destroy the Taliban and
           Al Qaeda from the face of the earth.   Restore the exiled king
           Al Qaeda from the face of the earth.   Restore exiled king
           as head of a Constitutional monarchy and rebuild Afghanastan
           as we did in Japan and Germany after WWII.
           \_ I like this idea too, but I think it would be costly.  We
              must be prepared to suffer some losses.  However, I do not
              think the Taliban had the support of the people the way
              Ho Chi Minh does.  The Taliban are more like the Khmer
              Rouge butchers when the Vietnamese invaded.
           \_ potential, but doesn't this remind some of the Bay of Pigs?
           \_ a political solution
           \_ I like this idea too.
2001/9/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Domestic/911, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:22499 Activity:insanely high
9/17    A word from the next generation.  Berkeley HS students speak:
http://www.alamedatimesstar.com/S-ASP-Bin/Ref/Index.asp?PUID=609&Indx=1090676
        \_ Ahh, the virtues of the modern PC public school system,
           teaching our youth first and foremost to be victims and
           teaching first and foremost our youth to be victims and
           dependent on the federal government.
           \_ Nah, they're just too young to understand the seriousness
              of it all.  It's the self-centeredness that hits most
              teenagers at some point in their lives.
              \_ Yup.  Wait till their sweetie boyfriends/girlfriends are
                 killed by terrorists and then see what they say.  It's
              place without 5 billion people).
                \_ so much for the belief that all men are created equal.  Guess
                   those 5 billion people are less equal?
                 depressing to see how self-centered teenages are these days.
                 I have cousins in a top-rank high school, and they drive me
                 crazy.
                 I have cousins in a top-rank high school, and their lack of
                 concern on others drives me crazy.
                 killed by terrorists and then see what they say.
           \_ aah the virutes of cointelpro.  tell me, do you really
              believe, that you could prove, in a court of law, that
              afghanistan is responsible?  Will the surrender of
              afghanistan stop terrorism?
              (caveat; but then again the world would be a better
              place without 6 billion people).
                   \- this is kind of the ultimate in ratcheting --psb
              place without 5 billion people).
                \_ so much for the belief that all men are created equal.  Guess
                   those 5 billion people are less equal?
                   \_ i think the total world's population is 5 billion.
                      \_ World population is 6B. There are 1B muslims.
                   \- this is kind of the ultimate in ratcheting --psb
2001/9/18 [Reference/Military] UID:22500 Activity:high
9/17    Can you pack a knife in check-in luggages or is it totally banned?
        \- well i think it is possible all bets are off for a little while now
        but i have brought stuff like machetes, large daggers etc in checked
        luggage. the bans on checked baggage are usually combustibles,
        pressurized stuff, live electronics, agricultre and animals. i am
        not sure if the airlines or the national authorizies impose the rules
        on guns. i think the hard question is what random stuff will the
        disallow on carry on and how restrictive will they be on volume.--psb
        \_ I, and several other passengers, had toenail clippers and swissarmy
           knife keychains confiscated this past weekend...
           \_ I'm surprised they let you keep the toenails.
              \- i dontunderstand this things with the keychains ... are
              they concerned you can use them to pry stuff open? i mean i
              think i can do more damage hitting someone with my hiking
              boots or a mechnical pencil. eh? --psb
              \_ better safe than covered with searing hot jet fuel
                 \_ there's probably lots of ways to disguise primitive weapons
                    and get them aboard, but i guess it's good they're trying.
                    if you brought a selection of seemingly innocuous parts
                    you could probably build a more dangerous weapon.
        \_ I was just on Air Canada last nite (Toronto->SF), and check-in /
           security took about 1.5 hours. they replaced the knives on the
           flight dinner with plastic, but the forks were still metal.
           \_ I think a terrorist can stab someone with just a ballpen or a
              key, or break someone's neck with bare hands if he knows some
              martial arts.  I think the safest way is to handcuff everyone
              onto his seat and not allow bathroom breaks.  But that's
              impractical, and handcuffing alone violates FAA regulations.
              -- yuen
              martial arts.  -- yuen
2001/9/18 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:22501 Activity:moderate
9/17    Is laptop still allowed as a carry-on in flights?
        \_ Man sitting next to me on my flight yesterday brought a laptop
           with him.
2001/9/18 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22502 Activity:nil
9/18    http://wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,46771,00.html
2001/9/18-19 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:22503 Activity:low
9/18    Are there programs which can auto-detect soundcard make and model, and
        hence, what driver one needs, in WinNT? This is standard in Win98 but
        I haven't found anything that does this for NT.
        \_ Don't use NT. Use 2k. Not only is it vastly better in stability, it
           does novel things like HW autodetection and USB. There really is
           no point to using NT now, unless you like pain. - ajani
           \_ Imagine for a moment that I don't have a choice...
2001/9/18 [Reference/Religion] UID:22504 Activity:high
9/18    I really good point was made yesterday.  The dumbest thing any american
        can do is to harass or in anyway mistreat arab-americans or american
        muslims.  IF there still are terrorists at large in the US that come
        from an arab culture or muslim faith, then the most likely people to
        notice them and help bring them to justice are the arab-americans or
        american muslims.
        Arab-americans and american muslims are everybit as american as anyone
        else and we should count ourselves lucky if they pay extra attention
        for the good and protection of all of us.  The last thing we want is
        to make them feel apart from us.
        \_ I watched the service in the national cathedral on Friday.  When I
           saw the imem (Dr. something from the Islamic Society of North
           America) and the rabbi walking into the Christian church side-by-
           side and delivered their speeches together, I was very touched.
           I hope all Americans and all the Jews and Muslims in the Middle
           East can see this.  I hope all Americans see the President talking
           in a mosque yesterday too.  (What Bush actually said there is less
           important.)
           \_ What did he say?
           East can see this.
           in a Muslim temple yesterday too.  (What Bush actually said there
           in a mosque yesterday too.  (What Bush actually said there
           is less important.)
2001/9/18 [Health/Women] UID:22505 Activity:nil
9/18    http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/WiredWomen/wiredwomen.html
2001/9/18-19 [Reference/BayArea] UID:22506 Activity:moderate 70%like:22465
9/17    I'm looking for more females around the bay area.  I found four in San
        Jose with large fruit.  I'm collecting the phone numbers to give to
        family and friends.  Thank you.
        \_ Very funny.  He's looking for female ginko trees.
        \_ if youre interested, i know where a few are in berkeley.
           send me an email  -hahnak
           \_ Females in Berkeley?  Mooooooo.
2001/9/18 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/Security] UID:22507 Activity:insanely high
9/18    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-7215723.html?tag=mn_hd
        " U.S. citizens back encryption controls "
        Right, only American companies can write encryption code/product,
        and the intelligence failure to warn the attack is due to, or partly
        due to encryption products!  Classical "not my fault" syndrome.
        Let's ban commercial airlines because their planes are used in the
        attack.  Let's ban all knives because they are used in the attack.
        \_ lets ban all people because they were used in the attack.
           \_ Let's ban religion. religion is the root of the Northern Ireland
                                  \_ Try economics.  There's not much that
                                     was ever perpetrated solely because of
                                     religion.  People aren't that pious,
                                     no matter what they may say.
              conflict, Palestine, Pakistan/India, and various historical
              atrocities. Not to mention the Holocaust, Cyprus, Kosovo, etc.
              atrocities.
              That's the one thing I didn't mind about China and USSR.
              Freedom FROM religion.
              I guess I don't mind Buddhists. They never slaughter anyone.
              (right? i'd be interested to learn otherwise.)
              \_ Tibetan Buddhism was the state religion of the Mongol Khans,
              \_ Tibetan Buddhism was the state religion of the the Mongol Khans,
                 possibly the most murderous forces in known history. Zen
                 Buddhism, as connected with Imperial Shinto during the
                 years leading up to the Japanese expansion, was part and parcel
                 with the philosophy that guided that set of warriors.
                 \_ So is there such a thing as a religion that doesn't have
                    significant blood on its hand?
                    \_ Quakers?
                 \_ Well, I see that as just being their personal philosophy,
                    and not something that actively caused strife. I mean, I
                    don't think they cared what religion other people were when
                    they were conquering them, they just wanted to conquer them.
                    That's good, honest conquest. They weren't haters.
                 \_ Imperial Shinto?  Zen Buddhism is very different from Shinto.
                    What is your source?
              \_ The Shaolin monks in ancient China once fought for an emperor
                 in the Tang dynasty against rebels in the region.  I think in
                 return the emperor gave the Shaolin temples exclusive rights
                 among all Buddist temples to openly practise martial arts, or
                 something like that.  But that you can say they fought for a
                 good cause.
                 in the Tang dynasty against rebels in the region.  But that
                 you can say they fought for a good cause.
                 \_ yeah, nothing wrong with that. no hatred, no frothy fervor.
        \_ lets ban the internet in the US!
              I guess I don't mind Buddhists and Hindus. They never slaughter
              anyone.
              I guess I don't mind Pengiuns. They never slaughter anyone.
                    That's good, honest conquest.
2001/9/18 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:22508 Activity:high
9/18    http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/09/18/flag/index.html
        I tend to agree with the sentiment in this article. I've always
        been annoyed that when I express my own patriotism, people
        automatically lump me in with the "right wing gun nuts". Why isn't
        there a middle ground? Why can't someone not want to "nuke all
        the brown people" and not be a traitor at the same time?
        \_ <troll>I don't know about you, but I think we should nuke
           all the yellow people, and I consider myself a patriot!</troll>
        \_ Why, oh why, can't someone be a good wholesome "right wing gun
           nut" without being accused of wanting to "nuke all the brown
           people"?
2001/9/18 [Reference/Religion] UID:22509 Activity:high
9/18    Fewer than 1 in 6 American Muslims are Arabs.  Fewer than 1 in 5
        Arab-Americans are Muslims.
        http://msnbc.com/news/630410.asp?0cb=-81924124
        Fewer than 1 in 6 Muslims worldwide are Arabs.
        http://www.freep.com/jobspage/arabs/arab7.html
        Afghanistans are not Arabs, although bin Laden is an Arab.
        Hope this clears up some misunderstanding.
        (As an example, there's a big Chinese Muslim restaurant in Milpitas
        Square.)
        --- yuen
        \_ Informing many Americans that Afghanis and Persians are not Arabs
           is akin to telling them that not all Asians are Chinese. I'm
           reminded here of what happened to non-Chinese people last Spring
           during the Hainan affair.
           \_ So ALL Asians are Chinese? You mean none of those Asians
              are Japanese or Korean?
2001/9/18-19 [Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:22510 Activity:kinda low
9/18    I have an existig apache install with mod-so.
        I have the .c file of a module i want to add.
        How do i get the .so file?  url would be great.
        \_ /path/to/apxs -i -a -c module.c
           -i: installs the .so in your apache dir
           -a: adds the AddModule and LoadModule lines to your conf
           -c: compiles the .c to a .so
           --dbushong
2001/9/18-19 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:22511 Activity:high
9/18    Does someone have a URL that archives all US Senate and House
        transcripts?
        \_ Does http://thomas.loc.gov work for you?
           \_ I already tried that. That's just an archive of the
              legislative texts. I'm actually looking for transcripts
              of speeches and congressional hearings.
        \_ I don't believe that such a URL exists.  If memory serves, what
           you're looking for is called the Congressional Review (or something
           to that effect).  The Federal Government sells it as a subscription
           service.  It is incredibly expensive (i.e. thousands of dollars per
           year); its pricing rivals that of some of the more ludicrously
           priced scientific journals.  Your best bet would be to see if it is
           available in a sizeable library near you. -dans
        \_ tape C-Span or look for C-Span web site somehow?
2001/9/18-19 [Computer/Theory] UID:22512 Activity:very high
9/18    I never took 172 and don't have the Sipser book. What is a good
        alternative?
        \_ the files in <DEAD>www-inst/~cs172<DEAD> are protected. Does anyone
           have the files where I can download them from? Thanks!
        \_ Papadimitrou's book is very good.  But Sipser's book is not
           bad either -- just buy it.     -- misha.
           \_ in what respect is it better than Sipser? Papadimitrou has
              two books, one is Elements of the Theory of Computation and
              the other one is Computational Complexity. Which one are you
              refering to?
                        \_ "To which are you referring?"
                           \_ "To which do you refer?"
                              \_ "What book is you tawkin' 'bout Huck?"
        \_ A good alternative to not having this book is to buy this book...
           or check it out of the library.
        \_ Nerds usually like "hopcroft and ullman" it's sufficiently
           status-generating.
           \_ in what respect is it better than Sipser?
2001/9/18 [Recreation/Dating, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Aspolito] UID:22513 Activity:high
9/18    I'm tired of all the talk about terrorism. Can we get back to
        aspolito and anal sex and asian chicks discussion?
        \_ no.
        \_ Mmm, Mayu Kiozumi..
           \_ Can't find her in Yahoo.  Who's she?
2001/9/18-19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:22514 Activity:high
9/18    http://www.foreignaffairs.org/Search/document_briefings.asp?i=19981101facomment1428.xml&nb=0
        \_ A link to Patton's speech:
           http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/patton_20010914.html
           Patton was already using terms like "He Man" and "superman".  I
           thought those were first created as comic characters after WWII.
2001/9/18-19 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Health/Men] UID:22515 Activity:high
9/18    Here is something one can do to prevent and combat future terrorist
        threats:
        http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24529
        \_ Wu Shu is good for everyone.
        \_ A link to Patton's speech from that page:
           http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/patton_20010914.html
           Patton was already using terms like "He Man" and "superman".  I
           thought those were first created as comic characters after WWII.
           \_ "superman" was a 19th century idea.  See Nietzsche, Wagner,
              Shaw, et al.
2001/9/18-19 [Uncategorized] UID:22519 Activity:high
9/18    So, here's an example of wonderful reaction to the crisis (sarcasm):
        http://www.98rock.com/audio/shoot.exe (from  http://www.98rock.com
        \_ Virus alert.
        \_ This site is really disturbing... they have an "in house tribute
           to the victim's & family's" in the form of an mp3 of Judas Priest's
           "You've got another thing comin." <drawl>God bless america.</drawl>
           \_ Welcome to florida.
           "You've got another thing comin'". God bless america.
2001/9/18-19 [Computer/Networking] UID:22520 Activity:high
9/18    I have seen several people (mostly grads but some undergrads)
        walking around soda with 802.11(b) cards on laptops. I have
        a card of my own... does anyone know if there is some way I
        can gain access to the wireless LAN? Thanks.    - rory
        \_ AirSnort
           \_ You know, you're not half as funny or clever as you think
              you are.
              \_ neither are you.
              \_ uh... AirSnort is a real thing.
                 \_ Yes. I see that now. I'm an idiot then. My apologies sir!
                 \_ Oh.  I'm an idiot then.  My apologies sir!
        \_ officially? no.  you need the special IDSG cards with
           mac addrs on their access list.  The best/easiest way to get
           wireless is to work with a prof and have them get it for you thru
           IDSG and their grant funds. - paolo
           \_ (granted, you can just change your mac address....
               figure out the key... hypothetically)
              \_ Provided you know what mac addresses are allowed ...
                 What, you thought everything is free here? --Jon
                 \_ ping scan the network, then look at
                    arp -n | grep -v incomplete
           IDSG and their grant funds. - paolo (granted, you can just
           change your mac addres.... figure out the key... hypothetically)
2001/9/18-20 [Uncategorized] UID:22521 Activity:nil
9/18    Would I expect performance gain by using multiple BufferedInputStream,
        and if so, how much? What is its the upper limit?
        \_ Why would you expect this. I don't think BIS is doing what
           you think it is doing. Look at the source.
2001/9/18-19 [Uncategorized] UID:22522 Activity:nil
9/18    this week's sot installment is the best there is yet:
        http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=6320
        \_ get a life, cmlee
        \_ "Taste - use erotic foods; taste your own fluids."  YUCKS!
           \_ Get a clue.
        \_ Does that encourage people of even more isolation from the society?
           \- who exactly is the target audience of this column? --psb
              \_ Since it's the Daily Cal, I'd guess it's the students.
        \_ Her last name is "Manlove". Haha. --dim
2001/9/18 [Uncategorized] UID:36328 Activity:nil
9/18    I thought this was interesting, nuke it if it's too long.
        \_ it's too long for the motd.
2001/9/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:36329 Activity:nil
9/18    I thought this was interesting, nuke it if it's too long for the
        motd:

 ===================================================

The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim Ansary. Tamim is an
Afghani-American writer. He is also one of the most brilliant people I know
in this life. When he writes, I read. When he talks, I listen. Here is his
take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in.

-Gary T.

Dear Gary and whoever else is on this email thread:

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone
Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean
killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity,
but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we
do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the
belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the issues being raised
especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived
here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want
to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

 I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt
in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.
I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

 But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the
government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who
took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a
plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think
Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in
the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing
to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators.
They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and
clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.
Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The
answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.

 A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000
disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There
are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive
in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all
destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan
people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.
Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the
Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn
their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done.
Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care?
Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble
of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In
today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move
around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those
disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have
wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a
strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would
only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the
people they've been raping all this time. So what else is there? What can be
done, then?

Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden
is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly
to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly
to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms
about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's
actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some
Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's
hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to
Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not
likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim
nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world
war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's ! Bin Laden's
program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his
speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam
would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can
polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If
the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with
nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view.
He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would
mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just
theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

Tamim Ansary
2001/9/18 [Uncategorized] UID:36330 Activity:nil
9/18    Man, you people surf the web too much. Link link link, blah blah.
        Get back to work!!
2001/9/18 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:36331 Activity:nil
9/18    Anyone listen to trance/techno/house/electronica in the morning?  Its so
        awful.  Just like Beer and Cold Pizza in the morning.
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:September:18 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>