Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:September:15 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
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2001/9/15-16 [Recreation/Food] UID:22447 Activity:nil
9/14    http://www.thehungersite.com is back online, and for the rest of the month
        is sending food to rescue workers & victims in NYC.
2001/9/15-16 [Computer/Theory] UID:22448 Activity:high
9/14    I'm trying to buy the 2nd edition of Intro to Algorithms from
        mitpress, but they're telling me it can't be sold in the US.  Does
        anybody else know about this?  They're not being overly helpful.
        \_ nothing about it on the books pages on http://www.amazon.com
           link:www.mitpress.com or http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~clr
           You sure they just didn't mean it's not printed yet?
        \_ Cody's books has copies of the 2nd edition - twohey
           \_ What's the difference between the two editions?
        \_ Cody's Books has the 2nd edition in stock. -twohey
2001/9/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:22449 Activity:low
9/14    I don't really understand the idea behind making posters and
        pictures to carry around in the search for your loved ones.
        Not to minimize their loss, but are people merely playing to the
        camera?  I don't recall seeing this mourning in this fashion
        before.
        \_ There is both the "have you seen this child" pictures on milk
           box cartons, as well as "the disappeared ones" whose relatives
           would carry around pictures of their missing loved ones as
           a form of protest. This is not quite the same thing, but
           there is a tradition of similar things. -ausman
        \_ Hmmmm, maybe because they want to FIND their loved ones?
2001/9/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:22450 Activity:high
9/14    USA Today Headline: "Palestinian leaders try to repair image --
        Effort includes threats to the media"
        http://usatoday.com/usatonline/20010913/3627513s.htm
        \_ Why do Palestinians hate America so much?  What's wrong with them?
                \_ Israel has occupied Palestinian lands for decades. U.S. backs
                   Israel.
           \_ The united states was pretty key in forming israel and (as the
              poster below points out) supporting it with weapons and cash.
              poster below points out) supporting it weapons and cold cash.
              Additionally, US foreign policy in the middle east (dating back
              to the cold war and after WWII) has been extremely mercenary --
              we gave money and training to ANYONE willing to fight the
              soviets; even if the current groups was in opposition to one of
              groups we'd supported before.  The fact that we've been playing
              a pretty shifty game, coupled with the fact that their religious
              beliefs are in oppostion to those of the US....
                \_ the weapons the israelis use on palestinians
                   come from the united states.  we are also
                   israel's biggest trading partner.  many israeli
                   settlers living in well guarded compounds in the west
                   bank were united states citizens.
                   \_ Ah, like Uzis, Galils, Kfirs and Merkavas, not to forget
                      the Israeli nuclear program we actively sponsored.  You
                      are a bit off-base;  that hatred is the result of a
                      fairly uneducated and volatile population being taken
                      cynical advantage of by fanatical, resentful religious
                      groups.  -John
                \_ so we need to educate the population that the US
                   didn't give Israel gunships and missiles, but we sell them
                   to Israel, except Israel uses aid dollars we gave them?
                   I think saying we spend billions of dollars supporting
                   Israel is a valid point, no matter how much we educate
                   the Palestinians.  we need to educate Israel into treating
                   the Palestinian minority in a more humane way.
                      \_ more so we need moderate/peaceful muslim to educate
                         the fanatics/uninformed that US and the rest of the
                         world are not against muslim, but we are against
                         world is not against muslim, but we are against
                         terrorists.  Taliban is claiming that getting
                         to bin Laden equals to attack on musim, what kind
                         of f***** up logic is that?! But guess what, a lot of
                         muslim would belive the claim looking at all the
                         anti-arab activies/sentiment displayed.  Step back
                         and think about it before you run down to your
                         local mosque and help Taliban to solidify their claim.
                \_ There are plenty of reason why they hate us.  We installed
                   Shah in Iran (not exactly most humane regime on face of the
                   earth).  We support Iraq when it invaded Iran.  We shut
                   down Iran passener jet because we think it is an F-14.
                   Ultimately, I think our unconditional support for
                   Israel didn't really help neither.  What Israel has done
                   to Palestinians are identical to what we have done to
                   the native American: build nation upon the promise
                   land... by whiping out those who lived there for past
                   2000 years.  Those sucide bomber are nothing more than
                   an desperate and fruitless attempt to prevent such
                   demise from happening.
              soviets; even if the current group was in opposition to one of
              the groups we'd supported before.  The fact that we've been
              playing a pretty shifty game, coupled with the fact that their
              religious beliefs are in oppostion to those of the US....  --mice
              religious beliefs are in oppostion to those of the US....
           \_ the weapons the israelis use on palestinians
              come from the united states.  we are also
              israel's biggest trading partner.  many israeli
              settlers living in well guarded compounds in the west
              bank were united states citizens.
           \_ I find it extremely disturbing that the US gives more money
              in foreign aid to Israel than to any other country.
        \_ Even the Quaran acknowledges Jews have a right to be
           in Canaan.
                         of f*** up logic is that?! Step back and think about
                         it before you run down to your local mosque and
                         help Taliban to shore up their claim.
                         muslim would belive the claim.  Step back and think
                         about it before you run down to your local mosque and
                         help Taliban to solidify their claim.
                   \_ The thing I am against is the economic sanctions
                      and bombings against Iraq 12 years after a war that
                      lasted 1 year.  How many Kuwaitis and Nato soldiers
                      died in the invasion of Kuwait and defeat of the
                      Iraqi forces.  How many Iraqis civilians have died
                      as a result of the economic sanctions?  Seems like
                      the response is disproportionate to the crime.
2001/9/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:22451 Activity:low
9/14    I propose a boycott of the old motd, even when it comes back.
        \_ Sounds good. You've got one supporter.
        \_ why don't you boycott soda?  you can get a life or maybe
           post whatever you want on the motd of your home/work machine?
           \_ You've got two.
          \_ don't boycott it. make sure the only message on it from
             now on is "use the free motd." -ali
             \_ works for me.
             \_ doesn't work as well, since it's not automatically displayed
                on login. What about some sort of cron job that makes sure
                the motd.public displays motd.csua info? or mirror the two,
                so that if the public is censored, all the information is
                freely available on motd.csua.  Course then it's no longer
                a boycott. I'll stop blathering now.
2001/9/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:22452 Activity:nil
9/14    Any csua'ers in NY/NJ might want to help out:
        http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,46821,00.html
2001/9/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:22453 Activity:nil
9/14    Campus closed from noon to 2 on Monday 17 Sept 2001:
        http://www.berkeley.edu/news/specupdates/statements/rmbstatemnt.html
2001/9/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:22454 Activity:kinda low
9/14    I'm reminded of the kkat presidency.  When are y'all gonna walk
        out and leave danh as supreme CSUA dictator again? --scotsman
        \_ I wish.
        \_ "Never compromise, even in the face of armageddon." - Rorshach
2001/9/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:22455 Activity:high 50%like:23956
9/14    Hello everyone.  Welcome to the underground guerilla motd.
        So much for censorship.  --PeterM
        \_ Indent your goddamn entries, whitey. --pld
                \_ I think that _was_ his entry.  2 lines long.
        \_ Anyone know which comment(s) resulted in the lock down?
           \_ Jon put the copy of it on ~jon/pub/motd.1.14055
              \_ once again, you are wrong that was not the complaint
                 that was voiced by several members.
                 \_ what was the complaint then? why the secrecy?
                    and in what manner was it voiced? (i hope not in the motd)
              \_ That's it? What a total waste of time this censoring has been.
              \_ That can't be right. The motd has been much more
                 offensive/childish/racist in the past and wasn't
                 censored. There must be a much more offensive motd
                 that jon didn't get a hold of.
                 \_ it was the last pre-nazi motd in the mehlhaff motd
                    rcs archive;  I did read the past few days worth of
                    motd in the archive and didnt find anything as offensive
                    as the politburo implied.  --jon
           \_ yes - they're in the csua@csua mail. - paolo
             \_ where is the list archived?
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:22456 Activity:nil
9/14    The new WTC:
        http://www.chrisgrout.com/images/wtc/NewWTC.jpg
        \_ Woohoo!  I want to work on the top floor of the middle one!
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:22457 Activity:nil
9/14    One groups answer to tues. events:
        http://www.frontsight.com/gun_school_for_pilots.htm
2001/9/15 [Computer/SW/Database, Computer/HW/Drives, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:22458 Activity:very high
9/14    I added a second IDE drive (slave) to the primary chain in my system
        and the drive is only detected on cold start (ie power up) and its
        never detected on warm start (ie reboot)?  I've tried jumpering the
        drive for cable select but that didn't work. Any ideas?
        \_ get a new hard drive
           \_ So this is a drive problem and not a controller/config
              problem? Sigh. I really didn't want to wait in the return
              line at fry's.
              \_ what OS?
        \_ Check the settings on your first drive.  Some older drives have
           different settings for Solo vs. Master.
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:22459 Activity:high
9/14    You know, when I say sign your posts, I don't mean for you to sign
        them with my name.  Sign your own damn posts with your own damn name.
        --jon
        \_ Sure thing, Jon.  --john
        \_ Sure thing, Jon.  --Osama Bin-Laden
        \_ Sure thing, Jon.  --jon
2001/9/15-16 [Reference/Military] UID:22460 Activity:moderate
9/14    This reminds me of current handgun laws.  If someone feels threatened
        by someone's gun (even if it is holstered), the gun owner can be charged
        with ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON.  Now, I realize our situation isn't
        quite the same, yet something is funny about drastic actions being
        taken as soon as a _single person_ feels threated by words on his/her
        screen.  I don't want to live in a society made prisoner to its most ..
        timid members.  Get some balls people, no one is getting lynched.
        \_ No one's getting lynched, but people are getting death threats
           on their answering machines and bullet holes in their mosques.
           Normally I might agree with you, though.
        \_ hey, nerd.  you ever been in a fight?  No, slapping your
           nerd buddies with a slide rule doesn't count.
           \_ Yes.  You?
        \_ Bullshit.  Sofia had a damn good point.  People are buying
           guns.  The shit that was said here, if taken seriously, was
           dangerous and threatening.  I thought taking down the motd was
           a bad idea, until I read Sofia's and Dan's mail.  I'm still not
           sure it was the best idea, but the point had to be made that
           some comments are taken seriously by people who are already
           shitting bricks.
           \_ Is there someplace where I can read this email? Thanks.
        \_ Sofia had a legitimate fear and made it known to the officers.
           Whether the officers did the right thing is another matter.
           As has been stated numerous times already, the entries in the
           motd went far beyond "anti-arab sentiment offending many members"
           to what could only be called "hate speech" and "incitement
           to riot" and were actually advocating violence.
              \_ yeah, i was the one kicking your ass.
        \_ Actually, more than one person was threatened.  It would be pretty
           fucking callous of the politburo to forward every mail they
           received with complaints of this nature to csua@csua
2001/9/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:22461 Activity:nil 62%like:36298
9/14    I'd like to make the following points:

        (1) If you haven't read wall.log yet (or don't know how to), at least
            one CSUA member had indicated to the Politburo that they felt
            threatened and scared by the racist comments in the MOTD.

        (2) The Politburo did not make this fact clear to the membership,
            that it was a basis for the closing of the MOTD.  Instead, it is
            described as "anti-arab sentiment offending many members" in
            /csua/pub/minutes/F2001/0913.politburo.
            (no offense intended to the CSUA Secretary)

        You're all human beings.  I'll let you figure out who was right
        and who was wrong here.  You can then return to what you were doing,
        instead of feeling incredulous, righteous, wronged -- whatever.
        \_ I read wall.log and at least two of the comments have been
           clearly misinterpreted. They were ment to illustrate just how
           stupid a particular line of reasoning was.
2001/9/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:22462 Activity:very high
9/14    Regarding dan's and sofia's emails about the motd;
        First I'd like to thank them for making their positions clear.
        But I think this has nothing to do with legal rights. This was just
        people being pissed that the politburo had the arrogance to shut down
        the motd. Censoring is nothing new to the motd, the motd censors itself
        on a regular basis. But the idea that the CSUA or politburo is somehow
        responsible for stuff that happens to appear in the motd.public is what
        concerns me. There is a disclaimer; perhaps it needs to be more clear
        and/or prominent. Perhaps it should display some kind of warning before
        you're allowed to look at it. I mean really, there's so much crap in
        the motd that if you're even capable of being offended by the remarks
        of anonymous strangers you probably shouldn't read it. You can't trust
        the sincerity of half the things in motd either.

        Personally I think it's healthier in the end if all the ideas come
        out in the open. It's not like they go away when you censor them.
        I wish I could reassure Sofia that her fears are out of proportion...
        truly, there are potentially dangerous morons out there, yet the US is
        a different place than it was in the 40's and the civil rights movement
        along with fear of lawsuits means that internment camps are as much a
        thing of the past as slavery. Racist morons were out there the whole
        time anyway; events have given them a specific excuse to vent their
        hatred, but it doesn't mean we were safe from them before this, and
        these people are not the norm.

        Finally, most of the statements cited by dans look like they were from
        ONE PERSON with personal "issues"; they were also stripped of the
        (sometimes lengthy) opposing views that lots of other people posted.
        At some point I think people started just ignoring or deleting him.
        Once again, a few people with extremely offensive views popping up
        is a price of freedom and should be reflected in the disclaimer. Yet
        punishing the motd community as "irresponsible" in light of the reality
        of how it handled itself both on the day of the tragedy, putting up
        helpful info, and later, yes, dealing with hatred, is an injustice.
        \_ Agreed, but what happens when those ideas pose a real and direct to
           a persons safety and well-being?
        It's not like they go away when you censor them.
        I wish I could reassure Sofia that her fears are out of proportion...
        truly, there are potentially dangerous morons out there, yet the US is
        a different place than it was in the 40's and the civil rights movement
        along with fear of lawsuits means that internment camps are as much a
        thing of the past as slavery. Racist morons were out there the whole
        time anyway; events have given them a specific excuse to vent their
        hatred, but it doesn't mean we were safe from them before this, and
        these people are not the norm.
        \_ tell that to the arab who's store was shot full of ak47 bullets
           in indiana the other day.
           \_ I guess in all the hoopla about the racist comments, the posts
              about people being depressed by acts of violence against arabs
              in this nation seem to have been completely ignored.

        Finally, most of the statements cited by dans look like they were from
        ONE PERSON with personal "issues"; they were also stripped of the
        (sometimes lengthy) opposing views that lots of other people posted.
        At some point I think people started just ignoring or deleting him.
                                                                 or her._/
        Once again, a few people with extremely offensive views popping up
        is a price of freedom and should be reflected in the disclaimer. Yet
        punishing the motd community as "irresponsible" in light of the reality
        of how it handled itself both on the day of the tragedy, putting up
        helpful info, and later, yes, dealing with hatred, is an injustice.
2001/9/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:22463 Activity:nil
9/15    DOWN WITH POLITBURO!!!!!
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:22464 Activity:nil
9/15    The first casualty of war is the truth.
2001/9/15-18 [Reference/BayArea] UID:22465 Activity:kinda low 70%like:22506
9/17    I'm looking for more female ginkgo trees around the bay area.  I found
        four in San Jose that have a lot of fruit.  I'm collecting the seeds
        to give to family and friends.  Thank you.
        \_ there are at least two trees near the front of school, to the right
           of asuc.  both are female, with lots of stinky, sticky fruit.  also
           on fulton near channing there is at least one female tree with another
           one nearby.  write me, hahnak
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:22466 Activity:nil
9/15    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/15/opinion/15SAT1.html
        "But the nature of the enemy, and the sanctuaries where he
        hides, promise to make this a long and unpredictable war."
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:22467 Activity:nil
9/14    Problem found in RSA libraries:
        <DEAD>www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/21685.html<DEAD>
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:22468 Activity:nil
9/15    Some sane voices in all this comotion:
        http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram-0109.html
        <DEAD>www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46784,00.html<DEAD>
2001/9/15 [Consumer/CellPhone] UID:22469 Activity:nil
9/15    So does all the cell phone use on the hijacked flights prove the FAA
        has been overreacting for years by banning cell phones?  Or are they
        going to claim that contributed to flight 93 crashing in PA?
2001/9/15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22470 Activity:high 57%like:22406 57%like:22423 57%like:22719 50%like:23057 50%like:23376
9/15    rm /bin/Laden
        \_ better is  rm -f /bin/laden
           \_ better still is chmod a+x /bin/laden
                \_ I don't get this one - clueless
                   \_ it;s because people are guessing that bin laden is
                      "executable", without much in the way of proof.
2001/9/15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22471 Activity:nil
9/15    The NSA is falling behind the terrorists:
        http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/21047.html
2001/9/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:22472 Activity:high
9/15    where can I find a copy of that photo of the firefighters raising the
        flag, similar to the famous Iwo Jima photo?
        \_ http://www.time.com/time/photoessays/rescue2/6.html --jon
           \_ thanks!
           \- does anyone know where there is a copy of the picture of the
           businessman in a fedora-type hat from the back looking up at
           the inferno? that is one of the best pix i have seen from
           the situation. --psb
2001/9/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:22473 Activity:low
9/14    bombing afghanistan would solve nothing since they're
        already living in rubble:
        http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/14/afghanistan/index.html
        oh and politburo:  fuck you!
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:36296 Activity:nil
9/15    Can we trim the motd a bit?
        \_ you have a text editor. go at it. -ali
           \_ I guess I just wanted to make it clear I'm not censoring
              any of the stuff below, I just want to shorten the motd.
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:36297 Activity:nil
9/15    link:www.miami.com/herald/content/features/columnists/pitts/digdocs/000565.htm
2001/9/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36298 Activity:nil 62%like:22461
9/14    I'd like to make the following points:

    (1) If you haven't read wall.log yet (or don't know how to), at least
        one CSUA member had indicated to the Politburo that they felt
        threatened and scared by the racist comments in the MOTD.

    (2) The Politburo did not make this fact clear to the membership,
        that it was a basis for the closing of the MOTD.  Instead, it is
        described as "anti-arab sentiment offending many members" in
        /csua/pub/minutes/F2001/0913.politburo.
        (no offense intended to the CSUA Secretary)

        You're all human beings.  I'll let you figure out who was right
        and who was wrong here.  You can then return to what you were doing,
        instead of feeling incredulous, righteous, wronged -- whatever.
2001/9/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36299 Activity:nil
9/14    WTF was seano ranting about? Bitching about ignorant opinions being
        shoved in faces, people wanting the motd are "insecure"...
        The only insecure people here are the ones who can't deal with the motd.
        And maybe he should take his own advice and keep his ignorant opinion
        out of my face.
        \_ Maybe you should tell it to his face on csua instead of
           hiding it here where he won't see it --pld
           \_ too much spam there as it is. what's the point.
2001/9/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:36300 Activity:nil
9/14    to speak to the politburo fiat, were people inciting to riot or some
        such?  the wonderful thing about world writable files is ...  wait
        for it...  you can DELETE as well as add...  Unless the motd was
        being used to coordinate concerted attacks against the local mosque,
        get over your power trip, politburo, and return the motd to the
        people.  --scotsman
        \_ Well, according to the info down below, it seems like the motd
           was fairly normal (and downright tame compared to last nov.)
        \_ yeah, FUCK politburo censoring. Let's vote politburo members
           off the island
2001/9/15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36301 Activity:nil
9/14    Friday Night at 7:00 p.m (US edt). step out your door, stop your car,
        or step out of your establishment and light a candle. We will show the
        world that Americans are strong and united together against terrorism.
        Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to reach
        everyone across the United States quickly. The message:
        WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM!
        CHECK OUT OUR WEB SITE AT  http://www.ynpn.org http://www.ynpn.org
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:36302 Activity:nil
9/14    Fiat lux? Lighten up is more like it.
        \_ Ex Cathedra is more appropriate in this case.
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:36303 Activity:nil
9/14    rm /bin/ladin
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:36304 Activity:nil
9/14    Paolo, you're a fucking nimrod. -ali
2001/9/15 [Uncategorized] UID:36305 Activity:nil
9/14       First post!
2001/9/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36306 Activity:nil 57%like:21883
9/14    MOTD poll: Worst CSUA officer ever

        mel
        appel
        kkat
        thorn
        lila    .
        paolo   .......
        politburo       .
        yermom
        dans .........
        \_ Yeah, he sucked.
           \_ I heard that he [Censored]

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                ____----=~ // /WVW\* \|\ ***===--___

                           AFGHANISTAN
\ now is that mature?
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/25    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:September:15 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>