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9/3     Vote to log the motd to identify motd nukers and people who
           discussion as a routine cleanup, but you happened to have posted
              i guess isn't necessarily to reprimand but to make sure your
              fuckup can be reversed.
                 anonymity, which is essential (IMHO). I think that the auto
           most of the folks having this discussion haven't been to a
              \_ Doesn't look very ruined to me.  I've seen the CSUA's books.
                 a bigger mail quota."  Not much charity there.  I've seen
                 \_ I've never heard a request for alumni to give talks.
                    any further info. The last time I wanted to donate,
                    I'd love to help out. ----ranga
           \_ no.
        \_ How about a automatic archiving system? It could create a
           web page with the motd contents every five minutes or so
           (depending on the rate of changes). Pages older than a week
           could get deleted automatically. It seems like this could
           preserve the anonymous nature while preventing the periodic
           automated nuking.
           \_ i agree with this almost totally. what i really want is
              an undo system so that when some dubass fucks up the
              motd by repeating some post 10 times or nuking an
              active thread, i can undo his action. it would make me
              happy if the motd got prcs'ed and i could run diffs against
              happy if the motd got prcs'ed and i could run diffs
against
              it easily. the side effect however is that some people might
              get identified.
              \_ I have been RCS'ing the motd on my own for years now.
                 Shouldn't be too hard to make restoral scripts.  -ERic
                 \_ What's the best way to do this? Does this involve a
                    script running in screen? I'm a unix dope.
        \_ I have a question about what constitutes a "wrongful deletion".
           Suppose the motd is several hundred lines long with a discussion
           near the end that is several days old. I happen to delete this
           discussion as a routine cleanup, but you happened to have posted
           to the thread just a few minutes before. I didn't intend to censor
           your post on purpose, but you don't know that, so I would get lumped
           in with the motd hozers right?
           \_ i think what you're saying gets solved by logging. the point
              i guess isn't necessarily to reprimand but to make sure your
              fuckup can be reversed.
              \_ The problem with logging is that it doesn't allow for
                 anonymity, which is essential (IMHO). I think that the auto
                 archiving + undo feature mentioned above would be the way
                 to go.
        \_ Why are voting on this?  You have no authority to enforce it,
           most of the folks having this discussion haven't been to a
           politburo meeting in YEARS, and haven't been eligible for longer!
           \_ because i'd like to know what other people think.
           \_ Some of us have donated and will continue to donate money
              and hardware to the CSUA. We like this forum and don't want
              to see it ruined.
              \_ Doesn't look very ruined to me.  I've seen the CSUA's books.
                 Not that many people are donating.  Usually when someone does
                 make a donation, it's along the lines of "My mail spool
                 filled up so I'm going to donate a hard disk so I can have
                 a bigger mail quota."  Not much charity there.  I've seen
                 how pathetic the responses are when the politburo asks
                 Alumni to come back and give talks.  I'm not saying all the
                 alums out there are this apathetic, but a lot sure want
                 to have a lot of say in how soda (and the CSUA for that
                 matter) is run without contributing much.
                 \_ I've never heard a request for alumni to give talks.
                    I would have done so if I knew about it.
                 \_ I have always been willing to speak and donate. I
                    volunteered for the Startup panel but never recieved
                    any further info. The last time I wanted to donate,
                    the current set of hardware had already been purchased
                    and I was told that when more was needed someone would
                    email me. If more hardware is needed please contact me,
                    I'd love to help out. ----ranga
              \_ the csua is in much better shape today than it was 4 years
                 ago financially.  less need for ask for alumni donations
        \_ isn't posting to motd a waste of time anywayz?
           \_ no.

8/3     Paolo, who wants to work with you? Also, do you guys have anything that
        you could actually call "technology", or do you think you can actually
        survive with a bunch of Servlets that send content that is "optimized"
        for wireless? Aren't there about 150 companies doing just that?
        \_ that's 200, punk.  but only one of them has Paolo!  There can be
           only one!
        \_ I don't work there.  I'm just a stockholder trying to help out
           a company. Someone said they needed a job. So much for being
           helpful on the motd. - paolo
           \_ Ok, can you ask someone who works there (dans, do you work there?)
              the same question. -op (original posta)
           \_ It seems like a select group of people are very unhappy with
                 care about pleasing everyone all the time.
              you.  What gives?
              \_ dunno.  I have my own circle of friends, and don't really
                 care about pleasing everyone all the time.  People really
                 resist change around here.  Change is important for an
                 organization to keep in contact with current membership.
                 Some people fear that.  As it goes around, "every group
                 has to have a boogeyman".  I guess that's just me, because
                 i bring change to the static, decaying system that used
                 to be the csua.  It's kind of funny tho how i've met a lot
                 of alumni in person
                 at parties and such other events and found most to be
                 very friendly and helpful.  Anyway, i've been told by my
                 friends to pretty much ignore motd/wall/tom, so I think I'll
                 take their advice.
                 of alumni in person at parties and such other events and
                 found most to be very friendly and helpful.  Anyway, i've
                 been told by my friends to pretty much ignore motd/wall/tom,
                 so I think I'll take their advice.
                 \_ I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you
                    delete my MOTD posts, and have set up scripts to
                    automatically delete the MOTD every 3 minutes, in
                    direct violation of soda policy, while lying to the
                    CSUA and the politburo about it.  -tom
                 \_ I think you should wield Molly, my crowbar of
                    righteous indignation.  -John
                    \_ Is that related to the Mace of Hospitality?
                       \_ it's related to my fireaxe.

8/3     I am using my 1st amendment right to disagree with your posting.
        \_ No!  You're wrong!  -John

 8/3    Anybody seen "The Follow" by Wong Kai-Wor on link:www.bmwfilms.com  What
        do you guys think of it?
        \_ It's good. Much easier to watch than Fallen Angels or Happy
           Together, which are very slow moving. The Follow is slow moving, but
           it's only five minutes long.
           \_ But I still dont understand the ending fully.
              \_ Her husband(who's also supposed to be a star) hires clive to
                 make sure she doesn't run off from him.  Clive sees the bruise
                 on her eye and gives the money back to the guy that hired
                 clive.  (If you still don't get it...  She was running away
                 from her wife-beatin husband.)
                 \_ I saw it only once but I didn't get it either.  How did
                    you know about the black eye?  I guess I have to see it
                    again to catch that.
                    \_ Was the black eye really that stealth of a shot
                       that everybody missed it? Geez Louise.
                       \_ No, this person must have been reading email while
                          watching the short or something... it was pretty
                          damn hard to miss...
                          \_ For me, I saw the injury, but I still thought I
                             missed something so I watched it with the
                             director commentary and then I understood. I
                             guess I'm just a dope.
                \_ He only beat her and hired Clive after she ran away with
                   another man and started cheating on him.
        \_ It's Wong Kar-Wai.
           \_ It's Kar-Wai Wong (first name, last name, US Style!)
              \_ There are a few sites out there that list his movies
                 movies as being directed by both Wong Kar-Wai and
                 Kar-Wai Wong.
                 http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1803471119
                 \_ Does the first/last name thing represent deeply rooted
                    cultural differences between the East and West involving
                    the role and/or importance of the family versus the
                    individual? Have people written papers about this? Or
                    perhaps a kinneydrivel?
                    \_ today, it is commonly known that asian families
                       stress that family goals and needs are higher up than
                       your own individual wants/goals; but the whole written
                       name order im sure came alot earlier, definitely way
                       before modern america which is the epitome of
                       individualism, so i doubt that name order actually
                       reflects cultural differences. Also asian culture
                       dramatically changed with the introduction of confucian
                       ideals, which is probably when the shift towards
                       family over individual concept took hold the most,
                       and so any cultural differences came from that.
                    \_ Some asian cultures don't even use a family name.

8/3     paolo, why did you lie to the CSUA and the politburo about your
        policy violations?  -tom
        \_ Tom, what the fuck is your problem.  What part of
           motd != politburo don't you understand.  Are you even a student?
           \_ I have sent a complaint to the politburo already, and they have
                ignored it.  Hence the public complaint.        -tom
              the politburo's domain of responsibility.  Tom is alleging that
              paolo used/uses a script to auto-munge the motd.  I'm not
           - student, !paolo
           \_ Son, auto-munging of the motd is a squishable offense.  That is
                 the politburo's domain of responsibility.  Tom is alleging
                that paolo used/uses a script to auto-munge the motd.   I'm not
                sure I can explain any more clearly than that. -!tom
              \_ Daddy, how am I supposed to know that from Tom's post at
                 the beginning of this thread?  And, how does posting to the
                   motd about the matter inform politburo?  All it serves to do
                   is rile the soda public, most of whom don't attend politburo
                   meetings, and, even if they did, will NEVER be eligible for
                   politburo again in this lifetime.  Oh, and, by the by, are
                 you a student? - 1st respondent
                \_ I had more details in the MOTD, but paolo keeps deleting
                    them.  What possible bearing does my student status have
                    on the matter?  -tom
           \_ i dont see why you can't answer his question --motd
              \_ We will be discussing paolo's conduct at the first CSUA
                 General Meeting after the semester begins.
           \_ What part of "Tom wants to have an _open_ discussion" do you
              not understand.  In this case, whether Tom is a student or not
              is irrelevant to whether or not Paolo is doing anything.

8/3     Is it possible to have a machine dual boot between Win2000 and
        FreeBSD? I heard that Win2000 needs to be the last OS installed
        but I'm wondering how strict that requirement is. Thanks.
        \_ Odd. I have several Win2k and Linux dual-boot systems.
           I install Linux *last*.  --PeterM
           \_ But does it matter, Linux or FreeBSD?
        \_ installed win2k/freebsd on my ibm laptop. works --jon
        \_ On the contrary, I installed Win2K/Linux on my Sony Vaio
           a while ago and I seem to remember something about Windows
           being dumb and not working if it doesn't boot from the
           first part of the hard drive.
        \_ There's definitely an issue with Win9x in this area but not 2k.
           I think 9x needs to be on the first drive or something, plus it will
           blow away any boot managers when installed.
        \_ Win9x needs to be on the first partition of your primary drive.
           However, what you do is install it, then install *nix somewhere
           else, and use a halfway-decent boot manager to that installs over
           the Win9x one.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  -John
           \_ So bottom line (if there is one), does it matter if I
              install Win first or FreeBSD first?
              \_ I concur with John... do what he said.

8/4     In general, do people find a difference working for
        managers with different racial background?  Does the
        cultural/racial background of your supervisor affect
        how the team is run?
        \_ yes.  When i'm managed by a team of monkeys, they seem to just
           confuse techonolical facts by screaming loudly at meetings and
           throwing around feces.  Oh wait.. I guess there's not much diff.
        \_ fuck you, dude. you need to get a clue.
           \_ Relax the head.  It is a legitimate question, even if it's
              gotten your PC engine revving.  Different ethnicities often
           as fast as the blacks, are generally very quite, polite and
              translate into different cultural backgrounds, and thus, varying
              ways of dealing with other people, or with work, with hierarchy,
              etc.  -John
        \_ yes, I find that generally my black managers are very loud
           and crass... and my asian managers, though not able to run
           as fast as the blacks, are generally very quiet, polite and
           intelligent.
           \_ how true it is.
           \_ They're also astonishingly good at math.
           \_ They also frown upon people who arrive after 8 AM and
              leave before 8 PM and take an hour for lunch.
        \_ I find differences in all managers, regardless of race. I've
           had six managers, all caucasian, and they ranged from senile
           to intelligent, from hands-on to "I dunno what a function is",
           from socialable to introverted.
        \_ I think culture plays such a big role here. I've had Caucasian
           mgrs who are just absolutely great; maybe because they have such
           a cheerful personality that you can get along with them like
           buddies and they understand young people. Then I've also had a
           Taiwanese manager who's old-school who grunt when you leave work
           before 7 PM, who keep on raising the bar on you and so demanding
           that they really don't give a shit about your life outside work.
           No stereotype here, but old school hard working managers often
           expect their subordinates to do the same, regardless of race -jthoms
              \_ I've worked for asian, indian and caucasian managers and
                 I have to say that the caucasian managers were the best
                 of the bunch. They knew where their technical limits were
                 and they knew how to deal with personality problems and
                 how to defend thier team in meetings with higher ups.
                 I recieved larger option grants, bigger bonuses and better
                 equipment as rewards for a job well done under caucasian
                 managers than under the others. Asian and Indian managers
                 never wanted to reward or promote anyone, they were just
                 interested in covering thier own ass and getting as much
                 out of you for as little pay as possible.
                 The asian and indian managers never realized that if
                 you like the company and the work you don't have to be
                 forced to show up and work.
           \_ it's the horrid "Thou shalt suffer as I have suffered."
              philosophy. Very stupid. Very "lets reinvent the wheel".
           \_ They may influence how the team itself is built.
              I watch a manager in a "neighbouring" department hire
              programmers.... and strangely enough, 3 out of the 4 new
              hires all spoke cantonese. Pure coincidence that she was
              a cantonese-speaking chinese woman, eh?
                \_ not to stereotype or anything, but I hate Cantonese
                   workers. They have a high tendency to talk loudly and have
                   a high tendency to talk about stock market, BMW, dim-sum,
        \_ Best manager I ever had was a tall slender blonde woman --asian guy
                   so on and so forth. And they rarely mix well (read-- no
                   assimilation) with other Asian race. Say no to Cantonese,
           Once had a Taiwanese manager and he was cool, confident and
           good jokes, never grunted, probably atypical.  --asian guy
                   the bane and the embarrasement of the Chinese race.
                   \_ Where is cantonese spoken? Mainland? Taiwan? HK?
                      \_ guang dong provence, which is where guang zhou is.
                                guang zhou == canton
                        \_ the ones you see here are usually from Hong Kong.
                   \_ wtf are you talking about?  embarrassment of the Chinese
                      race?  I find southerners (cantonese) to be more friendly
                      and easy-going than stuck-up northerners.  northern food
                      sucks too. (and before you accuse me of being biased, one
                      of my parents is from the the north, and the other is
                      from the south.)
                   \_ I don't know what you mean about rarely mixing well.
                      Since most Cantonese had British education, their
                      English is usually pretty damn good.  I don't know what
                      the hell you mean about not mixxing well with other Asian
                      races.  Who DOES mix well, in Asia?
                      Yes, they tend to be on the materialistic side, but
                      seriously, how many in the bay area are not?  I can not
                      see how they would be any worse than say the Taiwanese.
                \_ This is common among all races.  Indians hire indians,
                   Vietnamese hire vietnamese.  This behavior is especially
                   promoted by referal bonuses.  If anything, my impression
                   was that the Cantonese seem the most equal opportunity
                   among the Asians.
                   \_ There are two type of indians, one who will hire only
                      other indians and the other who will hire anyone other
                      that indian. I have not found this phenomenon in other
                      cultures (except perhaps caucasian).
                      Anyway, as an Indian I tend to be reluctant to hire
                      other indians because I don't trust them to do a good
                      job.
        \_ Best manager I ever had was a tall slender blonde woman -- best
           support, best pay and bonuses and review and had sense of humor.
           Once had a Taiwanese manager and he was cool, confident, told
           good jokes, never grunted, probably atypical.  Had 3 male
           white bosses, all fine. Differences may be due to culture
           or background or the fact that white folks are used to being
           the rulers in command of their subordinates in American society
           whereas others are just struggling with no role models.
           Certainly, being a manager involves people-skills and being with
           people of like mind and background helps smooth things, but that
           does not mean it's anything more than a minor issues. You may even
           differences will help the project. And to be a good, valuable worker
           or manager nowadays, esp. with global corporations and customers,
           you need to learn to work w/ others. --asian guy
                \_ I'd love a tall, slender blonde woman too, but for
                   reasons other than you said...
                \_ is that you, my little lollipop.

8/4     And all this time we thought that Keanu was the one
        when the one turns out to be Jet Li:
        http://www.apple.com/trailers/columbia/the_one.html
        \_ i wish jet li would get a better agent. this movie
           looks like stupid timecop rehash.
           \_ And timecop was a rehash of time trax...
           \_ The entire kill one guy and get his power stuff
              and the there can only be on stuff seems like it
              was ripped of from Highlander.

8/3     One day they might come for you
        http://www.cpswatch.com/reports/nccan.htm
        http://www.governmentchildtheft.com
        \_ The only way they will take my kid or my gun is to
           pry them from my cold dead hands.
           \_ That's exactly what happened to this Chinese dad who
              was mistakenly believed to be sexually abusing his
              8-year old daughter when he was just administering
              medicine because the daughter had some vaginal
              infection.
        \_ The only way the feds will take my kids or my guns
           is to pry them from my cold dead hands.

8/4     How do I send an environment variables to all sessions started
        from KDM? Can it be done from init?  I want all of the users on
        my local machine to know that MUSIC_CD should be /dev/acd0c
        (for cdcontrol).  thanks.
        \_ echo 'MUSIC_CD=/dev/acd0c ; export MUSIC_CD ; ' >> /etc/profile

8/4     Guy who wanted to know about the java job:
        \_ Ok, can you ask someone who works there (dans, do you work there?)
           the same question. -op (original posta)
           \_ none of the original team work there.  They all left because
              they wanted to go back to school; (among other things).  the job
              is a 40 hr a week job, and requires "face time" (as the mgmt call
              it).  So, this kind of job is not good for students; but good for
              people seeking fulltime employment for a little while. - paolo

8/4     motd nuked and partially restored... bitch.