Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:June:21 Thursday <Friday>
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2001/6/21-22 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/SW/OS/VM] UID:21582 Activity:moderate
6/20    I have an OS question.  Most programs make use of shared
        libraries and use a dynamic link loader to relocate branch
        targets at run-time.  The problem is that if you have
        multiple copies of, say, emacs running under their own
        user space wouldn't those relocated addresses (either relative
        or absolute) conflict under each process?  For example, if
        multiple programs were using OpenGL they would create virtual
        memory entries for libGL.so in their own process space. The
        location of libGL within this process differs from program to
        program so if libGL calls libm.so the dynamic link loader will
        place that library in a different location for each process
        and the branch targets under one process won't correspond to
        those of the other.
        \_ The shared bits are mapped to the same virtual addresses in
           each address space.
        \_ Not sure what you're asking.  But only the text portion of
           the shared lib is shared amongst the different processes.  All
           processes that need to use libGL.so have addresses that point to
           just one copy of the text portion of libGL.so.  It's the OS's
           job to keep the program counter and the VM straight.  Why would
           there be any conflict?
           \_ That's the problem. If you only have one copy of libGL.so
              in memory there would be a conflict in the outgoing branches
              from libGL.  For example, if we were calling glVertex
              within libGl. That function would have a jump an link
              to another absolute address to the libm math library. The
              dynamic link loader is responsible for resolving the branch
              addresses.  The problem is that if one user was running
              Quake while another person was  running Doom or something
              like that then the jump target addresses would be different.
              Let's just say, for example, that glVertex called the pow
              function:
              Quake                             Doom
              -----                             ----
              0x00000000 main                   0x00000000 main
              0x00003fff end of quake           0x00001fff end of doom
              0x00004000 libGL                  0x00002000 libGL
              0x00005000 libm                   0x00003000 libm
              0x00005040  pow()                 0x00003040  pow()
              If we were to have a jump and link to the pow() function
              then the addresses would be different in both copies of
              libGL.
        \_ Also, most, if not all, shared libraries are compiled to be
           position-independent.
2001/6/21 [Uncategorized] UID:21583 Activity:nil 50%like:22540
6/20    Yet another good piece on why Kyoto is a bad idea:
        http://opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont
        \_ TEXAS. TEXAS IS THE STANDARD!
        \_ Not another one of these "during my daily anti-environmental
           google searches I came across this URL" postings again. I
           can already point out several things wrong about the way
           this author makes his point: fallacy from ignorance,
           prejudicial language, anonymous authority, false analogy,
           fallacy of exclusion, an so on.
           \_ I wasn't googling, I read this in The Journal (perhaps
              the last honest paper left in the world, even the WP
              has started liberal appeasement).
        \_ beachfront property in nevada
           \_ ever heard of lake tahoe?
2001/6/21 [Computer/SW/Languages] UID:21584 Activity:kinda low
6/20    IsFoodPAnMITThingP
        \_ #F
           \_ IsItABerkeleyThingP
              \_ nil
2001/6/21 [Recreation/Dating] UID:21585 Activity:high
6/20    why bother collecting movies you've seen before?
       \_ there is no reason unless it's really good and your own
          personal favorite.  The current dvd market is simply a
          another creation designed to get consumers to spend more
          money on more stuff that they really don't need mostly.
        \_ Why bother collecting stamps someone has used before?
           \_ 34c < $15
              \_ 34c << 36dd
                 \_ 36DD < 32DD
              \_ Not all stamps are $0.34, dipshit. Second, why collect
                 art you've seen before?
        \_ Why marry your girlfriend if you've done her before?
              \_ Because she is pregnant and you don't want the
                 kid to grow up without a father?
              \_ Because she's so hot you can't bear the thought that some
                 other guy will be doing her?
              \_ Because you want to be sure she'll let you do her again and
                 again?
              \_ I'm still waiting for the bitter divorced guy to come in and
                 rant and rave about his ex-wife and the feminazi judge that
                 slapped a gigantic alimony up his ass.  Where are thou, my
                 bitter man?  -divorced guy's #1 fan
              \_ because it's harder to prove it was rape in court if you're
                 married to her?
           \_ Why take the cow when you can get the milk for free?
                \_ cuz other bulls will be milking her as well if she's that
                   slutty of a cow
2001/6/21-22 [Health, Health/Men] UID:21586 Activity:high
6/20    Let's say I workout every other day and I've gotten 1.2X more buff
        than before. How long would it take for me to atrophy back to 1.0X
        if I don't work out afterwards?
        \_ I remember my trainer mentioning that one loses 10% of muscle
           mass per week without exercise.  -chris
           \_ wow it's amazing i can walk at all!
           \_ true only if you are using steroids
              \_ All I hear are the squeaky voices of girly men.
           \_ I heard it was 10% per YEAR if you're 25 or older.
              \_ So if I work out for a year, it'll take me 10 years to
                 atrophy back to where I started?  This is just wrong.
        \_ The most reasonable answer I've heard in that case is that
           it takes the same amount of time to lose muscle as to add it.  -ax
           \_ so how long did it take you to buff up? You look sexy on
              your web site.                    -ax #1 fan
        \_ I think it depends.  If you are completely sedentary and you
           don't eat much it comes off pretty fast.  If you eat enough and
           keep at least a little active it takes much longer.  Also, even
           really short workouts (say 10-15 minutes a few times a week) are
           enough to drastically slow down or stop the loss.
2001/6/21 [Computer/Theory, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:21587 Activity:high
6/20    Robotech DVD's released.  Bad ass.  Box set available with extra
        disc featuring the Robotech pilot.
        \_ fuck that!  I'm waiting for the Macross DVD set with the REAL
           voice actors and non of this "flower of Life" Carl Macek
           bullshit.
        \_ Fuck that, I'm waiting for Space Kitteers dvd's and Gaiking.
           Gaiking Space Dragon on DVD would rock.
        \_ I am Cyborganizer.
        \_ cheapURLP
           \_ #t
        \_ Robotech? Bad Ass? Surely you jest.
           \_ Yeah, it only created the giant fighting transforming robot
              genre.  (See, Transformers, Evangelion, to name a few).
              \_ my ass it did.  Maybe you forgot Mazinger Z?  Of which
                 Voltes V was the sequel, and then on to Starbirds, and then
                 on to Dynamos... talking 70s here.
              \_ Create the fighting transforming robot genre? Hardly.
                 Voltron for example was out many years before Robotech.
                 As I recall the same is true with Transformers. If Robotech
                 inspired the creation of the hideously bad Evangelion,
                 well that just another reason that it sucks.
              \_ man Gundam was out before any of them. Stop watching dubbed
                 anime, and watch the "real" stuff.
                 \_ Quibble over semantics if you must.  Macross (later
                    rebroadcast and munged together with two other series
                    as Robotech in the U.S.) predates Voltron, Transformers,
                    and Gundam.  Get over it.
                    \_ uh, Macross originally was intended to PARODY the giant-
                       robot genre.  there was plenty of giant-robot anime
                       well before Macross (Danguard Ace, Grandizer, Gaiking,
                       etc.).
        \_ Robotech, Harmony Gold, and it's progeny must be destroyed.
           Makurosu, ai oboeteimasuka, forever.
2001/6/21 [Uncategorized] UID:21588 Activity:nil
6/20    What's the best place to learn the oh-so-confusing DataInputStream,
        FileInputStream, Stream, InputStream, BufferedDataInputStream, so on
        so forth?
        \_ the javadoc
        \_ Learn how to use shell piping.
2001/6/21-7/20 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:21589 Activity:high
6/21    Don't you ever wonder about what is going on in the world?
        1. South Africa - Ya there was alittle news about how debeers is
        going private but not much else- they control a good deal of
        energy and recently Africa is coming into its own- why- rich
        people have finally realized that they can buy all the land- and
        they have. But again no one talks about it
                \_ the black man will just wake up and hack off both
                   your arms, like in neighboring rwanda
        2.http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/published/ESP_Lists/esp_udc.htm  : They
        don't have commercials about this- Everyone assumes all those
        rate increase are mandatory---- well not really.......
        3.  Australia: There economy is based a lot of raw material
        production. In 9th or 10 grade had class where we played a game
        called simpolican or something like that- a pred of civilization.
        But you actually had to produce raw materials to produce
        everything else.  So why is it that our press never talks about
        the foundation of our economy- commodity production.
        4. What about going ons in france
        5. What about changing demographics- US simply has to many
        people- if you look at like euro countries people don't work
        nearly as much- thus the need for employees is more- you can
        sustain higher employment if people lets say take off a month
        here and there.
        6. What about families- US just wasted 5 years with no family
        economics- why because everyone was working instead.
        7. I am still waiting for a good story in the news about Japan or
        the Tigers. It is like Taiwan, ah I forgot the 5 tigers and did
        a quick search and came up with http://www.theglobalist.com
        \_ A... WHAT WERE SMOKING WHEN YOU WROTE THIS?
2001/6/21-22 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Recreation/Media] UID:21590 Activity:high
6/21    Has anyone seen both Pearl Harbor and the old movie "Tora! Tora!
        Tora!"?  How do they compare?  I've only seen the latter.  -- yuen
        \_ Tora Tora Tora is a classic (together with Midway).  I haven't
           seen Pearl harbor though.  Heard it wasn't that great.
           \_ Was Midway like a "part two" of Tora Tora Tora?  (Same style,
              same cast, etc.)  Or was it a separate movie?  -- yuen
              \_ In real life, it was a sequel.  The movie is a separate movie.
                 Don't know whether it was the same actors, but the production
                 seems to be done by the same people.  I say seems because I
                 haven't checked for sure.
           \_ Was Midway made like a "part two" of Tora Tora Tora?  (Same
              style, same cast, etc.)  Or was it a separate movie?  -- yuen
              \_ http://www.teachwithmovies.org/guides/tora-tora-tora.html
              \_ in real life, midway happened after pearl harbor.  Moviewise,
                 the movie Tora Tora Tora came out before Midway.
                 midway stars Charlton Heston, Robert Mitchum and others.
                 the japanese helped out with Tora3
                 \_ Yeah, I know about the real life part.  I was just
                    wonder about the two movies.  Thanks.  -- yuen
                    wondering about the two movies.  Thanks.  -- yuen
                 \_ I thought that Midway happened before the Japanese
                    surprise attacked the US at Pearl Harbor. Doh! --dim
                    \_ I know you are being sarcastic, but these days,
                       you never know what people know about WWII.
                       \_ Pfft.  You call that island hopping WWII?  WWII
                          happened on the Russian steppes.
            \_ part two in life toomore
                \_ Pearl Harbor: Theater Hop the special effects.
                   Don't waste your money or time on anything else.
2001/6/21-22 [Recreation/Dating] UID:21591 Activity:kinda low
6/21    Katherine Heigl.  Discuss.
        \_ I've had better, but I wouldn't say no.
        \_ Nice breasts.
           \_ URL please?
              \_ google it.
              \_ http://www.katherine-heigl.com/maxim.html  Nice bosom.  Also
                 http://www.katherine-heigl.com/fhm.html
                  http://www.katherine-heigl.com/100girls.html
                 \_ Huh? Merely OK, if you ask me. Kind of droopy.
                    \_ i always find it funny when geeks grade
                       really hot girls as "merely ok".  i bet
                       a female would run screaming from your fat ass
                       if you wore shorts.
                       \_ I don't know who she is, but she's sexy. Her
                          breasts presumely "droop" because they are large
                          and *real* but this guy doesn't know that because
                          he's never seen a breast. Finally, geeks *are*
                          picky. It's why 95% are still virgins. They are
                          waiting to make their millions so that they can
                          bed someone like Vendela. Good luck! I'll just stick
                                           \_ ^Vendela^Melinda
                          with cute girls who look like real women. --dim
                       \_ Please post a pic of yourself so we geeks can
                          judge your fat ass as well.
                          \_ catty, aren't we.
        \_ didn't she do My Father the hero when she was a young teenager?
           \_ yes. nice thong swimsuit.
2001/6/21-2002/2/6 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:21592 Activity:high 80%like:21634 66%like:22367
6/26    [ Kinney's drivel deleted. ]
            \_ Does MySQL really do transactions, ACID, etc now?
               anyone have a URL handy? --oj
               \_ No, MySQL is not presently ACID compliant.  That's why you
                  can corrupt MySQL databases if you throw enough traffic at
                  one.  They just moved their transaction code into the stable
                  release.  Don't know if it's usable yet though.
                  \_ Its not. Our 'database' guy is a rabid MySQL fanatic and
                     had us use it in our project (instead of PostGres which
                     I wanted to use). The transactions code is turning out to
                     be the cause of a lot of our problems. We will probably
                     switch to PostGres in the next version.
                     \_ From what I read the corruption problems were due to
                        real multiuser env where multiple insert and update
                        statements clouded the water.
                        \_ Yup, that's the problem. MySQL "forgets" to do
                           some inserts and updates. We got about 5 daemons
                           reading network and system state and trying to
                           populate the db with this info and sometimes
                           stuff doesn't show up, but the db says everything
                           is okay. It really sucks.
                        My application having only read rights should not be
                        affected; but then again who cares- my master data file
                        is still maintained on my local computer and used only
                        by me. I do an update once and month on my local copy
                        and publish the new tables out to the network.
            \_ Will MySQL ever have transactions? I thought the point
               of MySQL was that it wasn't a real database, just a fast
               data source that could understand SQL.
               \_ Anyone who runs something they really care about with
                  either Access or MySQL is asking for what they'll get. They
                  each have their uses, but so does Excel for that matter.
                  If you want a real database, then use a real database like
                  MS SQL Server, Slimebase, Informix, Oracle, or the like.
                  Postgres/Ingres is about as good as its going to get for the
                  "freeware" camp, and in fact we use it here to catalog
                  near-earth objects and (in another application) store
                  GPS data. Rock solid. --dim
        \_ No Kinney, I don't wonder.  If I'm curious, I read the
           New York Times and the Christian Science Monitor (both
           available free online).  Add in a dash of The Economist
           and a liberal paper (insert SF Guardian or Village
           Voice here) to balance it out, and a grain of salt to
           account for the ridiculous conservative bias in one and
           the loony liberal bias in the other and you come out
           pretty well informed.
         \_ wow.  Tell your boss he is a moron and he shouldn't be making
            these decisions.  Do what is right (PostgreSQL) and then if
            you get fired be GLAD that you now will get a tiny bit of money
            on unemployment while you dick around before getting another job
            which you obviously need to do anyway.
            ( If this database will really stay like it is now forever, then
              yes, mysql is great).
            (Also, ignore the person who said (point 3) that Oracle is faster
              than MySQL.  That person is either a moron, or he typod).
             Finally, to answer another deleted question, MySQL does NOT support
             sub-queries.  (very annoying and another reason to run Postgres).
             One thing Mr. point #3 is Right about is that you should never even
             consider running Access. (so much for "Finally")
             \_ No, really, Oracle is significantly faster than MySQL.
                - Mr. Point 3
                \_ MySql is faster on simple selects.  But when you run join
                   join queries of many tables, mysql slows down significantly.
            \_ Does MySQL really do transactions, ACID, etc now?
               anyone have a URL handy? --oj
               \_ No, MySQL is not presently ACID compliant.  That's why you
                  can corrupt MySQL databases if you throw enough traffic at
                  one.  They just moved their transaction code into the stable
                  release.  Don't know if it's usable yet though.
                  \_ Its not. Our 'database' guy is a rabid MySQL fanatic and
                     had us use it in our project (instead of PostGres which
                     I wanted to use). The transactions code is turning out to
                     be the cause of a lot of our problems. We will probably
                     switch to PostGres in the next version.
        \_ godamn i missed this one before it was purged.  Pray tell it
           wasn't about h07 4zn ch1x?
           \_ D00D U N33D 2 134RN 2 5P311! 175 42N ! 4ZN!
           wasn't about H07 42N CH1X [ 5P3111NG C0RR3C73D ]
        \_ I hope it becomes standard MOTD policy that Kinneydrivel(tm) is
           automatically deleted.
           \_ I hope so too.
              \_ Solidarity, man.
        \_ Oh my god, you deleted kinney!  You bastard!
        \_ what's the average lifetime of Kinney's drivel?
           \_ 3-5 minutes
        \_ Are you on drugs? Do you even know what the ASP model is? This
           is the most nonsensical discussion I've ever seen.
           \_ Please ignore kinney, he is something I like to call a
              'blazing moron.'
        \_ I think "ASP" means something different to most people than
           what it means to you.
           \_ Please ignore kinney, he is something I like to call a
              'blazing moron.'
        \_ goddamn it stop censoring kinney.  Kinney you must share
           your wisdom with the world.  Put it all on a web archive
           or something.
        \_ you guys are fast. did you write an automatic kinneydrivel filter?
           i actually enjoyed the last two drivels.
           \_ yeah, i've yet to see any at all. someone got a repository of it?
           \_ I guess I happened to view the motd at the right moment and then
              immediately deleted it. Knee-jerk reaction I guess =)
        \_ Hey, this was the first one that wasn't drivel.
          \_ wasn't the post signed by psb? and yes, it was total drivel
             and completely random question that didn't follow from
             the story.
             \_ i'm gonna keep putting drivel in motd.kinney even if it might
                be fake kinney. making fake drivel is pretty lame anyway so
                i'm gonna hope no one bothers.
             \_ Did we read the same post? The one I read was a question
                about transmission limits imposed on communications equip.
                by the FCC as it related to a new technology. It seems to
                be a non-drivel question.
        \_ I thought it was cute.  Why'd you purge it?  I was going to have
           some fun with it.
2001/6/21-22 [Uncategorized] UID:21593 Activity:nil 66%like:21602
6/21    "Center of the World".  You love this movie.  You live this movie.
        \_ What's it about?
2001/6/21-22 [Uncategorized] UID:21594 Activity:nil
6/21    A good read on freedom
        http://www.myplanet.net/jeffhead/dadmisc/gritz.htm
        \_ RETURN TO THE "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" WEB SITE
2001/6/21-22 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Industry/Startup] UID:21595 Activity:nil
6/21    I've just found a version of emacs vc that supports ClearCase:
        ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/cc-vc, but it's dated 1996.  Does anyone know
        of a newer version?  Thx.  -- yuen
        \__http://www.ultranet.com/~esler/ccase-mode
2017/09/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/26    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:June:21 Thursday <Friday>