4/30 Remember kiddies, do your part to arm china. buy more chinese goods
- help the PLA/PLAN/PLAAF.
\_ this is dumb. of course i'll buy chinese goods. if it's the same
quality for less, i'd be stupid not to. the real problem is our
trade policies that put no compensatory tariffs on imports from
nations that do not adhere to environmental and labor standards
that domestic companies must, and nations like Japan that have
high trade barriers to which we do not respond in kind, and groups
like whatever lobby is responsible for our continued monetary aid
to places like israel that i doubt any american really wants their
tax dollars being funneled to.
\_ Monetary aid to Israel that is pre-earmarked to buying American
weapons. It's really just a grant to the American weapons
industry. Those dirty Jews don't get the cash to spend on
just any old thing.
\_ what does that have to do with anything? it's still giving
them my money. does this somehow make it okay, or good for
taxpayers? if it's so good we should have the government
buy tons of computers and cars and other shit and give that
away too.
\_ Medicare and Welfare and the EPA are giving my money
away to worthless causes. At least if my money is used
to purchase weapons that are used by the people of
Israel defend thier homes and thier freedoms, my money
is put to better use than wasting it on some lowlifes
who can't get off thier asses to find work or for some
tree huggers who just want to stand in the way of modern
civilization and progress.
\_ what does this have to do with anything? all this
is irrelevant to the fact that tax dollars are going
to israel, and i've never seen anyone that wants this,
except the israelis.
\_ *I* want this. Now you can't honestly say you don't
know of American citizens who want their tax money
to go to support Israel. You'd rather it go to what?
If they're going to tax the shit out of me, better it
goes to Israeli weapons than some welfare whores.
\_ are you jewish? if so, i rest my case. otherwise,
why do you consider this an either/or case? both
are happening. why do you keep bringing up welfare?
\_ You rest your case? Based on what? I'm an
American and I pay a shitload of taxes to the
state and federal government all year long. I'm
also a registered voter and I actually vote.
Can you provide a URL for where it says tax
paying, voting American born citizens have no
say in how their money gets spent? And welfare
has a lot to do with it. I'll say it again for
you. This is _my_ money they're taking in
taxes. If I must pay taxes I want the money to
go to things I support, like Israel and not
things I don't such as welfare whores. What is
so hard to understand about that?
\_ right. do you understand that disabled people
wasn't going to the defense of Isreal, it would
are on medicare/welfare? not everyone is
able to support themselves. i suppose you
would just have them killed? or leave them
to their poverty. furthermore, welfare
choices are issues that come up in elections;
sending money to israel doesn't. it is not
the duty of the united states to send money
to foreign nations to support "causes."
the world runs on self-interest. the money
is sent because of self-interest groups
with undue influence.
\_ The number of people on welfare who
can't take care of themselves is miniscule.
Most of the people on the dole are
just to lazy to get a job.
\_ Wen Ho Lee is hardly innocent. He has pled guilt to most
In the case of Israel, if we don't
support them, they will not survive.
And the "holy land" will not be free.
I'm not jewish, christian or muslim,
but the though of Jerusalem in Muslim
hands is frightening.
\_ god you are an idiot. on what do you
base this "miniscule" claim?? anyway
the job of the *US* government is to
do things that help the *US* people,
not the israeli people, you fuckwit.
besides which, israel is and has been
for decades overwhelmingly capable of
defending itself. if you want to
support them further you can send
your own money there, but you can't
pretend that most americans would do
so. there are many causes right here
in the usa that money could be spent
on.
\_ welfare is not help, esp. when
most of the people who are on
welfare are using my money to
buy drugs and avoid work. Ideally
the government wouldn't waste
commies traitors out to ruin this country. They
any money and I wouldn't be
overtaxed, but in reality that
won't happen because of the
greedy liberals in Washington
who think that its their $s
instead of mine. Since money
will be wasted anyway, better
that it gets put to good use
defending Israel rather than
to bad use by some crack whore
in the bronx.
in case you forgot the point _/
of this, it isn't whether israel
is a "good cause", it's whether US
representatives should be doing things
\_ Did you read the link to the Dir. Freeh's
statement? He states that the charges were
dropped because proving would compromise
national security.
that *most* americans do not want,
for their own personal gain. and you
can't elect/not elect based on these
issues because they are buried under
more important ones. this is called
corruption. your "it's good because
at least it's not welfare" is totally
ridiculous. the same goes for our
trade policies.
\_ Prove to me that *most* americans
don't want to support Israel or
that such support is given by
elected representatives for personal
gain.
\_ it's not a matter of "support" it's
a matter of doling out money. we
"support" taiwan but we don't actually
buy their arms with tax dollars. us
policies in the middle east have a lot
to do with arabs hating the usa, they
didn't just wake up one morning and
decide "usa sux". but that's ok,
cuz they're muslims, and it's ok to
be anti-muslim.
\_ Why do you keep saying "most" Americans
agree with you? URL, please? Here, how
about I say something equally unfounded:
"Most Americans want tax money spent on
Israel". There. Now we've both said
something unfounded, unproven and unknown.
We're now equally stupid and ridiculous.
And I think *you* forgot the point of this.
This thread was started as a "boycott
Chinese goods" thread, not the antisemitic
thread you turned it into.
\_ oh that's classic. i was just waiting
for the "antisemitic" thing to come up.
the typical shield. you don't want to
give your money to israel?? you racist
bastard! you don't want to be RACIST,
do you? that's right, cough it up.
fucking dumbshit. and i brought up
israel as an example of a special
interest cause, because our stupid
trade policies wrt china are also
governed by special interest groups.
\_ Lets all just agree to disagree.
\_ You still fail to provide any proof
of your assertion that "most Americans"
oppose helping Israel and hide behind
one minor comment. Israel isn't a
random special interest cause. It is
the only democracy and friendly
nation in a very unfriendly area of
the world to the US. It behooves
this country to help that country.
Where's that link about "most
Americans"? Ho hum... oh? There
isn't one? You were just debating
out your ass? What a surprise! I
called you anti-semitic because you
instantly dismissed any defense of
Israel thinking I might be Jewish.
You're an anti-semite. That's ok.
You're not a alone. A lot of people
are. Now where's that link about
"most Americans" agreeing with you
on the subject of helping Israel?
\_ i'm not going to argue about
the real point when you bring
the anti-semite bullshit into
this. what possible basis do
you have for calling me this?
all i did was dismiss support
for this policy by jews, since
by definition their religion
obligates them to consider
israel the holy land etc. which
is just reality. the religion
says they're the chosen people.
obviously they're going to be
biased. if you can't understand
this you're a waste of time.
\_ You're guilty as charged and
still unable to provide a link
saying *any* Americans agree
with your views, much less
"most" Americans. You put up
a good fight for someone with
such obvious biases and near
zero debate skills, but it's
over. You got no links, you
got no argument, you got nada.
Insert coin to continue? Y/n
if debate skills consist of twisting _/
\_ Maybe so for long dead people, but
poor villagers in India almost always
have better teeth than city slickers.
Their teeth may be colored, but its
never rotten, and that largely due to
thier diet.
a discussion into "you're racist" and
"i'm right and you're wrong" then yes
you have commendable debate skills.
\_ You both are complete morons. Stop
extending this damn motd to a 50 page
book.
\_ I'm not jewish. It is either/or. If my money
wasn't going to the defense of Israel, it would
be getting wasted on dipshit treehuggers, and
welfare crack whores. If my $s have to get
spent, better it is on the defense of the
Jewish homeland.
\_ Tax $s get misspent all the time. At least with
Israel its going to a good cause.
\_ what is good about that cause?
\_ The struggle for the freedom and the right
of the Jewish people to live. The defense
of the rights and freedoms of people is
by definition a good cause.
\_ Uhm, whatever. Avoiding Chinese goods won't make a big difference.
Kicking all their students and spies out might.
\_ Yeah. We, like, need to build Chinese internet camps like we
did for Japanese Americans in WWII because you know how all of
them were spies.
\_ Yeah, like we need more straw men like this. Nice try.
\_ Chinese internet camps would be cool. t3 lines to every
computer and only chinese are alowed to use it.
\_ the US would be taken over rapidly.. he means internment?
\_ I think he does but he's too busy trolling to check
his spelling and word choices.
\_ 1824, Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The closer contemplation we condescend to
bestow, the more disgustful is that booby nation I
have no gift to see a meaning in the venerable
vegetation of this extraordinary people. They are
tools for other nations to use. Even miserable
Africa can say I have hewn the wood and drawn
the water to promote the civilization of other lands.
But China, reverend dullness, hoary idiot! All she
can say at the convocation of nations must be --- I
made the tea."
1881, Republican Senator,John Miller of California:
"The Chinese are inhabitants of another planet.
Machine like. They are automatic engines of flesh
and blood. Why not discriminate? Why aid in the
increase and distribution over our domain of a
degraded and inferior race, and the progenitors of
an inferior sort of men. We ask you to secure us
American anglo-saxon civilization without
contamination or adulteration. Let us keep pure the
blood which circulates through our political
system. And preserve our life from the gangrene of
oriental civilization."
1999, Representitive of California, Christopher Cox:
"essentially ALL Chinese visitors to the U.S. are
potential spies. Futhermore, all Chinese Americans
are potential "sleeper agents," who can be used at
any time but may not be activated for a decade or
more."
When we fought a civil war to abolished Slavery, we put
Chinese labors in pig pens and import to Cuba (the term we
used them was "coolies").
When we talk about innocent until proven guilty, Wen Ho Lee
was in solitary confinement 23 hours a day, shackled from
waist down for MONTHS without possiblity of bail. Though
we can't prove it, but his name is indeed too Chinese
sounding to be innocent.
\_ Wen Ho Lee is hardly innocent. He has pled guilty to most
of the charges filed against him and there was no question
as to his guilt in those charges. Only one or two of the
most serious charges have been dropped. There is still
no doubt in the minds of most *rational* americans that
Dr. Lee's action were not in the best interest of this
nation, its secuity and its people.
\_ what the fuck are you smoking? MOST of all his charges were
dropped except for a few (like a couple i believe). Why
don't you track down the Time articles are these before you
spill.
\_ Cough... Time articles? I bet you love those
little colored pie charts in USA Today, right?
Lee was guilty.
\_ At long last, sir, have you no shame? Have you no
sense of decency, sir?
\_ Still doesn't mean they weren't a bunch of fucking
commie traitors out to ruin this country. They
still are.
\_ Okay, 58 of the 59 counts were dropped, but not
because Dr. Lee was innocent, its because proving
in court that he was guilty would have ment that the
FBI (under the espionage act) would have had to
reveal too much information about national security
procedures and the information that was stolen.
Here's a URL even:
http://www.salon.com/news/col/horo/2000/10/03/lee
\_ That's the same David Horowitz that tjb quotes.
What are you, 64, white, and living in Alabama?
Be ashamed of yourself and stop polluting the motd
with random URLs pretending to know something.
\_ quoting horowitz is not going to win you
points around here
\_ God damn it! Stop bringing facts into this! I really
hate when you shut down someone's little rant on their
personal agenda with facts.
\_ Facts? What facts? The http://salon.com article just
mentioned a bunch of hearsays and conjectures
of what might have happened.
\_ Try again. I know it's hard.
\_ Whatever. You just need a good beating.
Because someone said something doesn't
make it a fact. The URL points out a lot
of facts but none of the facts prove
Dr. Lee was a spy. "Fact: The sky is
blue today. Conclusion: Jon Doe was the
killer." is a pathetic argument. The
same goes for "Fact: Freeh said that
that proving Dr. Lee guilty would have
resulted in a breach in national security.
conclusion: Dr. Lee is a Chinese spy." is
also an equally pathetic argument.
\_ If proving Dr. Lee guilty (which he
obviously ws) would further compromise
national security, the FBI has to
cut its losses. What part of that
do you not understand?
\_ [ followup about just needing to
prove mishandling of secrets
deleted (censored?) ]
\_ Actually, you have to produce
the files that were mishandled
or at least details about thier
contents under the espionage act.
This is a big problem in certain
cases, esp. in nuclear weapons
technology (which Lee was involved
in *mishandling*).
\_ What's special with that? OJ was innocent too. Don't
blame the races. Blame the American justice system
instead.
\_ Wow... this is such a well done troll. Blunt yet
has a subtle hint of "I *must* respond to this
fool!". Bravo! Well done.
\_ I'm not blaming chinese people. I'm just
saying that Dr. Lee was guilty.
\_ Lee was not *targeted* because he was chinese
he was arrested because he *BROKE THE LAW*. Maybe
your little criminal mind can't understand
that or maybe you don't care about national
security or maybe you don't love this nation
and its freedoms, but some of us do. And people
who compromise the security of this nation
have no right to live.
\_ Dr. Lee *WAS CHINESE*? I could have sworn
he came from a little island that is considered
a U.S. ally and very anti-China. In this
country, we don't need facts to prove that
someone *BROKE THE LAW*. Conjectures and
hearsays are good enough.
\_ He's still guilty of 1 charge which
carries a 25 yr sentence. I'm guessing
that means he *BROKE THE LAW*.
\_ I agree, and that's why I said blame the justice
system for not being able to nail down these
bastards.
\_ The bane of the innocent until proven
guilty system is that guilty men walk
free. It is the price of assuring that
innocent men are not incorrectly locked
up. All in all its a better system than
say GB's where it guilty until proven
innocent and the burden of proof is on
the defendent not the prosecution.
\_ Great Britain? No, there it's also
innocent until proven guilty and guilty
men often walk free. Same problem.
\_ I just checked my facts, you are
right its innocent until proven
guilty, apparently this was changed
in the late 70s because of several
judicial mistakes:
http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/law/uk00000_.html
\_ But you still don't have nearly as
many rights in GB as you do here if
you're a defendant.
\_ Agreed, GB defense law sucks.
Selective enforcement of the law based upon race, ethnicity
and national orgin is the fundamental building block of
our great nation. Without it, there will be no land which
we can establsih our nation; without it, there will be no
slaves which fuel our economy.
\_ I'm a victim, I'm oppressed. Cry me a storm wussy boy.
You can't be oppressed or victimized unless you let it
happen.
Anti-Chinese is as American as apple pie. So, live with it!
\_ Hi Paolo!
\_ Was this supposed to be shocking or something? And oh yes, I
would like some more tea. Go be a good boy and refill my cup.
\_ Soli sah thea i no mo tea, injuans dump i in bosto harbo.
Perhap you like drink coffee?
\_ Get the whips.
\_ I'm pro-Chinese, as long as they're cute girls! --aaron
\_ Chinese chix are ugly and have bad teeth.
\_ Making fun of poverty, how crass.
\_ poor != bad teeth
\_ poor => bad teeth. Condition of teeth is one of
the ways Archaelogists used to determine the class/
social status/material well being from the remains
of a person.
\_ White racist oppressor arhcaeologists. The
ultimate in racism: racism covered by the veneer
of science. Oppressing people who aren't even
here to defend themselves. How cowardly.
\_ This is not strictly true. In India for
example, poor villagers often have much
better (ie not rotten) teeth than city
slickers. Its mostly due to a better
diet.
\_ Same in China.
\_ so do some Japanese chix. Dentistry in the far east sucks.
lots less drugs
\_ Japanese chix raised in the US are still much
more attractive than chinese chix raised in the
US.
Japanese chix is where its at.
\_ List of some spies. Don't make me dig out my list of 250
since WWII:
Harold Nicholson
Aldrich Ames
David Sheldon Boone
Mariano Faget
George Trofimoff
Alejandro Alonso
Earl Pitts
Richard W. Miller
Robert Philip Hanssen
John A. Walker Jr.
George Bush
Felix S. Bloch
Ronald Pelton
George Blake
Edward Lee Howard
\_ xenophobia is bane of society
\_ buying goods from the enemy is the bane of society
\_ xenophobia keeps a society from being some random mishmash of
crap like this country is becoming.
\_ and i supposed your ancestors were native americans who
didn't emigrate here like everyone else? that's about
as logical as saying america's strength is derived from
being one homogenous population. |