Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:April:26 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2001/4/26-27 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:21109 Activity:high
4/26    What are some good reasons to use C fptr over regular method calls?
        \_ Data directed programming allows you to do function calls
           in constant time. Of course, many modern compilers will
           take switch/case statements and implement them in constant
           time.  Look at examples of C function pointers and you can
           see why they're used.
           \_ dude, read the fucking post. VERSUS METHOD CALLS. are you
              fucking awake?
              \_ Well, maybe if he/she DEFINED C METHOD CALLS...
                 \_ Method calls are what the Java people use to call
                    functions associated with a certain class because
                    they're "too cool" to just call them member functions
                    or just functions. Kind of like the whole "Java doesn't
                    have pointers, they have references" bullshit. Even
                    Hilfinger thinks the guys at Sun are full of it.
                        \_ Hilfinger thinks anything which doesn't involve
                           400 macros is full of it.
                    \_ but C is not OO, and hence does not have classes or
                       methods.  Even if the original poster meant "functions"
                       instead of methods, the question makes no sense.
                    \_ It has nothing to do with being "too cool".  Method
                       call is the terminology from Smalltalk, which predates
                       the C++ "member function" terminology.
        \_ Cool people use function pointers.
        \_ you should use method calls whenever you can.
        \_ methods?  in C?  what?
           \_ farms? in berkeley? what?
              \_ moo.
                    \   ^__^
                     \  (og)\_______
                        (__)\       )\/\
                            ||----w |
                            ||     |b
2001/4/26-27 [Health/Men, Health/Women] UID:21110 Activity:insanely high
4/26    house passes bill defining fetuses as people. what's next,
        sperm is "potential people" and jacking off is a federal crime?
        \_ too much gov intervention on people life is a dangerous thing.
           besides we should be concerned with over population.
           21 week old fetus reaches out and grabs doctor's hand.
           \_ what is a "medical ethicist"? hi there, i'm a medical ethicist.
              as opposed to a diesel engine ethicist. what i say goes.
           \_ I thought the picture was interesting.
        \_ Yes!  Excellent!  *Now* young troll, you have walked across the
           rice paper without leaving a mark!  I'm so proud of you!  -papatroll
           \_ thanks, dad. now i must seek revenge against the evil red trolls.
        \_ Yeah.  Millions of potential murders.   You horrible mocking
           unbeliever, you!  Uhm, Die now or something.
        \_ sperm does not have the full genetic code to make a unique
           human being.
           \_ So is masturbation a half murder?  Potential murder?  Maybe an
              attempted murder?
              \_ think boolean operation.  sperm by itself or an egg by itself
                does not activate human life threshold function.  0 or 1.
                \_ okay, what if I take a bunch of sperm and eggs, and mix
                   them around in a solution so that I get a thousand little
                   2-cell fetuses, and then flush it down the toilet. did
                   i just kill thousands of people?
                  \_ so when does human life start for you?
                    \_ so why do you only answer with another question?
                        \_ answering without proper context would not be
                           a good idea.  A larger view of things would be better.
                           So when does human life start in your view?
                           \_ what does my opinion have to do with yours?
                              \_ the question to resolve is when life
                                 starts.  I want to get the other point of view
                                 too to be able to properly contrast the two.
                                 \_ i asked whether the sperm egg thing would
                                    be killing, not for a compare/contrast.
        \_ We're finally taking our nation back!!!      -NRA supporter
           \_ Uh, you're mixing your politics up.  The NRA has nothing to do
              with abortion.
              \_ When sperm is outlawed, only outlaws will have sperm.
                 \_ i have more sperm than i need, but not as much as i want.
        \_ if sperm is "potential people" then I practice genocide on a
           daily basis
           \_ sperm and fetus are completely different things...
        \_ they are people, human, but are they US citizens?
           \_ Probably not, since they are not (yet) born in the US.
                 pills", on the other hand, kill fertilized eggs.  E.g. RU401.
              \_ Interesting point. Its is not clear that the "equal
                 protection" clause would apply to unborn children.
                 But it is still murder, since killing a non-citizen
                 is the same as killing a citizen.
                 \_ why do you care if some fetus is aborted? i can
                    see why the mother cares, but why should you?
                    it's none of your damn business. what justification
                    do you have for considering a fetus a person?
                    the bible certainly doesn't. a fetus doesn't
                    breathe air. it is physically integrated into the
                    mom's body, sharing her bloodstream. damned if
                    the government has jurisdiction over the inside
                    of someone's body. A uterus is not US territory.
                    \_ I'm pro-choice, however, I do care if other people are
                       killing other third parties I don't know.  Your logic
                       doesn't follow cleanly on that point.
                    \_ why should you care about Jane Doe or John Doe
                       being murdered elsewhere?
                       \_ because they're human beings.
                          \_ so are those in the womb.  When does human life
                             start relative to conception? 9 months?
                             12 months?  when?
                             \_ Life begins at birth, however, you're not a
                                real person until around age 8 or so (it varies)
                                at which point you are capable of feeling for
                                others.  Once you can feel for others, you
                                become human and not just some animal on two
                                legs.  Yes, this logically leads to post-natal
                                abortions.  And why not?
                                \_ 8 years?  Yes!  If my 5 year old kid is
                                   bratty, I have a right to kill him/her!
                                   That would be so cool!
                             \_ a person's life begins when they're *born*.
                                duh. that's the standard by which society
                                has always judged these things. that's
                                why we celebrate birthdays, not conceptiondays.
                                why do you have to try to use your limited
                                medical knowledge to complicate things? what's
                                wrong with the obvious definition?
                                do you want us to start putting fetal tissue
                                in graves, and have church gatherings for it,
                                and put who knows what on the headstone?
                                \_ so you would support killing a "baby"
                                   20 seconds before it is to be born
                                   (such as 1 second before 9 months)?
                                   \_ irrelevant. i don't *support*
                                      killing anything, fetuses included.
                                      if a woman goes into contractions,
                                      and then kills the baby, jeez
                                      you're reaching. but if there's a
                                      line to be drawn it should be
                                      sensible, like third trimester.
                                      \_ what's the point in protecting
                                         fetuses if it isn't human life
                                         and human life begins at a birthday?
                                         How dare you infringe on the rights
                                         of women who just so happen to have
                                         a bunch of cells in them.  There
                                         is no point protecting those cells.
        \_ just consider this thought experiment. we have the ability
           to produce test tube babies. so imagine a timed apparatus
           containing egg and sperm, set to begin the conception at
           12 midnight. then the janitor knocks it over. is that murder?
           if not, why not? a fetus is a bunch of cells that will grow
           into a baby. so is that egg and sperm, in that apparatus.
           now replace that apparatus with a guy and girl. oh shit,
           by not fucking each other they're murdering a potential baby!
           \_ I believe this is called a "slippery slope argument" or
              "argument from the heap", but I don't remember which.  It's
              a common fallacy.  Basically you are saying the gov't
              arbitrarily drew a sharp line dividing A and B.  However,
              A is to B as B is to C and B is to C as C is to D.  Therefore
              since A is illegal and that is pretty  much the same as D,
              then D should be illegal.  Since making D illegal would be
              absurd you conclude that making A illegal is also absurd.
              Killing a person is illegal so since smart animals are similiar
              to people killing them should be illegal too.  Also since
              dumb animals are similiar to smart animals, killing them
              should be illegal.  Insects are basically dumb animals
              so killing insects should be illegal.  But making the
              killing of insects illegal is absurd so making murder
              illegal is also absurd.  By the way, I'm not pro-life,
              I'm just pointing out that your argument is flawed. -emin
              \_ i disagree. because there is a huge difference between
                 a seperate living organism (baby) and the organic parts
                 inside a mother that _can_ produce a baby.
              \_ emin, i know the answer to this point and it's not one
                 that should be discussed right now, because we need to
                 talk about other things. -lotfi zadeh.
                 \_ That makes me very curious.  What is the answer?
                 \_ Hah, hah, very funny, really.  I didn't know other
                    sodans were at Zadeh's talk on Tuesday. -emin
                    \_ i was there, wasn't it? -lotfi zadeh.
        \_ what's the definition of a fetus? 4 weeks after conception?
                \_ okay, what if I take a bunch of sperm and eggs, and mix
                   them around in a solution so that I get a thousand little
                   2-cell fetuses, and then flush it down the toilet. did
                   i just kill thousands of people?
           2 weeks after embryo?
           \_ defined as ``a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage
              of development, who is carried in the womb''
           \_ so will this make using oral birth control illegal, since
              those are fertilized eggs being flushed away?
              \_ The common female birth control pills don't kill fertilized
                 eggs. They prevent eggs from being produced.  "Morning-after
                 pills", on the other hand, kill fertilized eggs.  E.g. RU-486.
                 \_ Bzzt.  Wrong.  on both counts.  birth control pills
                    prevent fertilized eggs from attaching to the uterine
                    wall.  RU486 causes the uterine wall to slough away,
                    thereby ending the pregnancy.  Get a fucking clue.
                    \_ Actually, it looks like we both are right about the
                       common pills.  Plus they also prevent eggs from being
                       fertilized.  See
        \_ I think it's not the government's business.  I support the
           mom-is-god until baby is given birth position.  The bond
           between mom and fetus is unique, and mom has to take all
           responsibilities for it.
           \_ i fully agree. an unborn fetus is not a person. it is not a
              citizen of any country. hence, if the mother kills her own
              fetus it's nobody else's business. if someone else kills it
              or damages it against her will, that's another matter, but
              we're protecting the mother's rights and not the damn fetus.
           \_ Mom is not always god, because not all moms are good. Consider
              moms that want to kill thier kids. Bad mothers. Murders.
              \_ I agree, but God has given mom and unborn kid a unique bond,
                 and has given mom the full responsibility (including guilt)
                 for the unborn kid.  Attempts for the clumsy government to
                 intervene will only backfire and make things worse.
              \_ not all gods are good either.  so?
        \_ let us take a baby inside the womb about to be born.  Lets take
           it partially out.  Lets kill it.  Legal in the U.S.  What's the
           difference between a baby halfway out of the womb and a baby
           outside the womb in terms of being "human", or having the act
           be "legal".
        \_ what if the woman miscarries the fetus?  should woman be charged
           with involuntary manslaughter?
           \_ No, miscarriage is not the same a murder (or what you refer
              to as abortion). A induced miscarriage would be murder though.
              \_ You missed his/her point.  If I accidentally ran someone down
                 with my car, killing him, I'm charged with involuntary
                 manslaughter, even though I clearly didn't mean to hit the
                 person.  The poster is trying to stretch that to miscarriage
                 \_ it's not a stretch. what if the mom crashes her car and
                    the resulting injury causes a miscarriage? hmmmm?
                    \_ Well, I didn't use the word "stretch" in that I
                       disagreed with him (I'm undecided actually).  But it
                       is a valid question, imho.
                \_ the idea is "intent" or negligence.
                 \_ What if a pregnant woman goes to see a movie rated NC17?
                    Since her fetus is a "human being", wouldn't she be
                    violating some rules about bringing children there?
                    Can a pregnant woman be sued for child abuse if she
                    smokes or drinks (good Republican values) while
                    pregnant, since the House republicans are calling
                    the fetus a human being?
2001/4/26-27 [Uncategorized] UID:21111 Activity:kinda low
4/26    The medical establishment has finally decided how long you're allowed
        to live.  Welcome to the new world where It Takes A Village.
        \_ Amusing, but he comes to the wrong conclusion.
        \_ This is horseshit
2001/4/26-27 [Computer/SW/Database, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:21112 Activity:nil
4/26    I'm looking for software that can do the following.  Anybody know
        of such a package for a small business?
        1.  Track customers' data and their order history.  Plus I need to
            enter customized data fields that can be searched.  E.g, "list
            all customers who ordered XYZ".
        2.  A way to combine information from a arbitrary number of customers.
            E.g., "list all order from all customers from such date to such
        3.  Some minimum accounting functionality.  Accounts payable, accounts
            receivable.  Simple stuff.
        I'm doing all this stuff in Excel. And it's getting hard to manage.
        I need like a small database with a customizable front-end.  But with
        a lot of small-business functions preconfigured.  Thanks.
        \_ /usr/bin/perl or /usr/local/bin/perl on some systems.
        \_ Used to do this in Access.  It is Easy(tm) but not worth the effort
           compared to either PeachTree or QuickBooks Pro.  Both do full
           accounting, rudimentary customer management, and full order mgmt.
        \_ I was also going to reccommend peachtree, just as long as you don't
           ever intend to become a big (or even medium) sized company, 'cause
           peachtree is definitely a small business only system (or was 6 yrs
           ago when i last used it.  Things might have changed.
        \_ How about UNIX based systems?  Anyone? Ones that will work with
           a postgress backend database maybe?  or should i not hold my breath?
        \_ I'm looking at PeachTree and QuickBook web sites.  They are also
           offering online version of the products.  Like QuickBase.  It keeps
           customer information in their database and you use a web browser
           to access it.  Anybody used it?  Comments?
        \_ QuickBooks easily does this for you.  It isn't the most
           sophisticated piece of software, but it works.  From what you
           describe, you do not need QuickBooks Pro.  And you could perhaps
           use QuickBooks for the Web, although it only works on Windoze and
           only works with Internet Explorer (yes, they are lame... don't even
           get me started).  And if you want QuickBooks for cheap ($50), I can
           get it to you. -phale
2001/4/26-27 [Reference/History/VietnamWar] UID:21113 Activity:high
4/26    "Kerrey Speaks of Guilt on Vietnam War Killings"
        If the media hasn't been looking into the matter and getting closer
        and closer to him, would he all of a sudden "stand out and reveal his
        wrongdoing" after all these years?  What a politician.
        \_ Yeah but he felt bad for being a lying scum and a butcher for all
           these years so we should not only forgive him but be proud of him.
           Kerrey in 2004!
           \_ Ah, good timing on his part then.
              \_ You know, he's still a lying scum.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:April:26 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>