Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:April:20 Friday <Saturday>
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2001/4/20 [Science/Space] UID:21024 Activity:insanely high
4/19    What's the best degree to get if you want to become an astronaut?
        \_ Looking for a genie in a bottle?
        \_ there's so much I don't know about astrophysics... I wish I read
           that book by that wheelchair guy...
              http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/hawking  -- yuen
           \_ "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking?
              http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/hawking
              "He is the only scientist invited to appear on episodes of Star
              Trek and The Simpsons."  (http://www.isepp.org
              -- yuen
              \_ http://hawking.org.uk runs linux (according to netcraft).
              \_ Dr. Hawking is much more than a mere physicist. He's
                 also a bad a$$ homey g gansta rapper:
                 <DEAD>www.mchawking.com<DEAD>
                 And he runs BSD/OS with his Gin and Juice!
        \_ don't be CS, and get two degrees in unrelated disciplines.
           \_ CS=ground control.
           \_ ugh, psychology and mass comm?
        \_ Naval Architecture, Physics, Math or Engineering Science.
           These are the primary majors at West Point and Annapolis,
           the primary source of graduates who go on to become
           Astronauts.
        \_ Things are different now with the Space Shuttle. You dont need
           to necessarily be all engineering or jet-pilot/military-like
           See http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/astronauts/training.html
           for the different degrees, requirements and other skills needed.
           \_ 60-76 inches tall?!?  blackballing, short bastards! -erikred
                \_ 5' - 6'4"?  What's wrong with a range like that?
                        \_ I'm 6'5", oh well.
                   \_ erikred = 84"
                   \_ Nothing this is the 80% range of human height. And
                      the assemblies on the Shuttle are designed for
                      this range of people. It would be prohibitively
                      expensive to design for 100% of all people.
           \_ they didn't say anything about weight. Whew!   -6'4" ~400pounds
                \_ At $10k per pound to send stuff to orbit, you're not going
                   anytime soon.
                   \_ I'm curious at how this figure is arrived at. So if I'm
                      an astronaut and happen to have five Big Macs the night
                      before (ok, unrealistic, but humor me here), will I be
                      costing NASA another $10-30k?
                        \_ Not in that sense.  But if you know the weight of
                           the shuttle and everything in it and you know the
                           "total cost" then it's simple math.  I'm guessing
                           that the TC includes things like salaries for the
                           flight control crew and other support staff on the
                           ground, so no, it won't cost anymore if you chow
                           down the night before.  Nothing measureable.
           \_ I'm 5'2" 96 pounds, can I go? -cute azn chick
              \_ pixP.
              \_ That depends on your bra size.  What's yours?
              \_ If nasa won't have you. I will.
                 \_ Bang! Zoom! Off the to moon, Alice!
                        \_ who's alice?
2001/4/20-21 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:21025 Activity:high
4/19    What is the name of the emacs mode that automatically inserts returns
        and indents after you type in a semicolon? Every now and then,
        i turn it on accidentally and don't know how to turn it off.
        \_ c-mode
        \_ asm-mode?  -- yuen
           \_ ass mode
2001/4/20 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Dating] UID:21026 Activity:moderate
4/19    Anyone's seen Memento?  How was it?
        \_ I don't remember.
        \_ awesome.  It was a cross between Usual Suspects, Pulp Fiction,
           Betrayal, and film noir.  Pay attention, don't go get popcorn.
           \_ It was very creative story. But I don't think it was an awesome
              film.
              \_ _Soldier of the Mist_, _Soldier of Arete_, Gene Wolfe
                        \_ goetz?
              \_ Well, it's good enough where I'd consider it criminal if this
                 worthy film does not get a nationwide release.  The film
                 had more plot twists than a double helix.
              \_ If it's not that good why do 5 http://imdb.com staff give it
                 an average rating of 9?
                 \_ it's barely released and has already cracked the top #50
                    on http://IMDB.com.
              \_ damn it people.. don't give away the movie.  This is one of
                 those chicks where the less you know the better experience
                 you'll have.
        \_ I'm trying to convince my friend and his wife to see this tomorrow
           night, but my friend says he's heard it's violent, and he wouldn't
           want to mislead his spouse.  Is it that violent?
              overall cuz she doesn't like movies with violence.
                \_ A dude gets his head blown off in the first two mins.
           \_ My gf have it props for creativity but gave it thumbs down
              overall cuz she doesn't like movies with that much violence.
        \_ What's with their commercials? Are they European or something?
2001/4/20 [Recreation/Media] UID:21027 Activity:very high
4/19    Do episols 2 and 3 of Star Wars already exist in some form other than
        movie, like in a book?
           \_ Its all very simple, the plot is g33k5 give money to
              GL who uses that money to live the life of landed
              gentry. In return, GL puts out medicore crap called
              a movie.
        \_ Yes, George Lucas wrote the scripts for Star Wars 1-9 already.
          \_ There are 9 summaries in a treatise called "Journal of the
             Whills" that Lucas wrote long ago. He decided to make episode
             4-6 because they were the most interesting. 1-3 was/is only
             other movies he'll make of the story. 7-9 will not be filmed.
             Only C3PO/R2D2 remain constant thru the stories.
              \_ 7-9 will be filmed when GL needs more $s. He'll pimp
                 his sorry excuse for an "epic" for every $ its worth.
           \_ Not true. He has the basic concept in his head, but he
              hasn't actually written all the scripts.
           \_ He's also said there just isn't much more story after 6, which
              is part of the reason why you'll never see 7-9.
              \_ If GL runs out of cash, you'll see 7-9.
                 \_ The guy has millions upon millions. And he owns ILM. I
                    doubt he'd run out of cash.
                 \- Hello, Lucas will release 7-9 when he has grandkids and
                    has another excuse to again betray those of us that were
                    around in 1977 with some new "technological terror"
                    along the lines of JJB. ok tnx --psb
                    p.s. does anyome know which UCB math prof is the one that
                    looks like George Lucas?
                       \_ Okay maybe the bit about running out of $s
                          was wrong. But he will release these movies
                          when he wants more $s, because g33k5 will
                          pay good money to watch his crap.
                    \_ Bergman?  He looks more like Francis Ford Coppola,
                       but i guess you could make the stretch...
                    \_ GL already has grandkids.
                 \_ yeah that's so true. he didn't "charge himself" for
                    using ILM as the EFX company for Episode One. 20th
                    century got maybe 50 cents of every ticket sold.
                             \_ was this with one or two asian chic sitting
                                with you on your bed?
                             \_ No matter how good your setup is in your living
                                room, you will not recreate the effect of
                                watching celluloid on a big screen.
                    1/3rd went to the theatre. the rest went to GL.
                    so he made off with a good $400 mil of Ep1 $600 mil
                    no bad for a movie he forked over his own $110 mil for
                    \_ So he had a profit of $290m on his crappy movie?  I
                       felt so robbed that I spent good money seeing it.
                       \_ It's funny how people bitch about wasting their time
                          and money on Star Wars 1. It's not like you never
                          ever felt robbed watching a less-hyped movie.
                          \_ Sure I do.  You want a list of all the shitty
                             movies I've wasted my money on and bitched about?
                             I only mention this one because that's the thread
                             topic.  If I came up with a random movie to bitch
                             about, you'd say I was an idiot and off topic.
                             Tell me the funny part about expressing my
                             opinion about the subject of the thread topic?
                             It's funny how stupid people come to the motd to
                             feel clever but aren't.
                             \_ Anyone who is stupid enough to *pay* to
                                watch a movie has no right to bitch that
                                the movie was bad. You checked your brain
                                at the door when you traded hard earned
                                money for worthless celluloid drivel.
                                \_ You sound like one of those napster idiots.
                                   \_ Why? Because I don't waste my money
                                      on entertainment?
                                      BTW, I never said that one should
                                      pirate IP, I said that hollywoods
                                      IP SUX!
                             \_ Why do people go to theaters anyway? All
                                movies are freely available (even before
                                the release date in most cases) on hotline
                                and irc. The quality isn't too bad in most
                                case. Why would you pay $8 to sit in a
                                dark room with a bunch of insensitive
                                jerks who are talking to each other and
                                yakking on thier cell phones instead of
                                \_ Because spending hours hunting down and
                                   downloading movies so I can watch them on
                                   a dinky monitor or TV is a much bigger waste
                                   of my time than the $8 lost at the movies.
                                   When your time has no value, this is a good
                                   way to go if you don't mind being a thief
                                   and a criminal.
                                watching the same movie in the comfort
                                of your own home?
                                I've heard about this thing called the
                                "theater experience", but the "experience"
                                seems to me to be worth $1 or $2 not $8.
                                \_ Because spending hours hunting down
                                   and downloading movies so I can watch
                                   them on a dinky monitor or TV is a
                                   much bigger waste of my time than the
                                   $8 lost at the movies. When your time
                                   has no value, this is a good way to go
                                   if you don't mind being a thief and a
                                   criminal.
                                   \_ A big screen tv and dolby 5.1 ss
                                      are just as good as the "movies".
                                      And searching/downloading takes
                                      almost 0 time. You just have to
                                      know the right sites.
                                      I don't care about the criminal
                                      part. The founding fathers were
                                      considered criminals by the brits.
                                      TPTB were wrong then, they are
                                      wrong now! Viva la revolution!
                          \_ Yeah. Why do people watch movies in theaters
                             anyway? Its much cheaper and faster to d/l the
                             vobs or asfs from hotline. I watched SW:E1 in
                             asf format 3 days before the theater release
                             in the comfort of my dorm room.
                             \- i bet the person who wrote these two posts
                             were not born in 1977 ... "you dont get it".
                             The reason "we" felt ripped off has nothing to
                             do with wasting $8 ... hell, my Star Wars lunch
                             pail i still have will pay for the price of
                             admission several times over. Hint: the fact that
                             I have a SW lunch pail has more to do with why
                             I feel betrayed. --psb
                             \_ You feel betrayed that GL is pimping his
                                shitty little "epic" for all the $s its
                                worth so that he can maintain his elite
                                lifesytle? Why? After all its his shitty
                                little epic and he can do anything he wants
                                with it. If you thing that it was good or
                                that it was some kind of story for the ages
                                you are a bigger idiot than tom.
                                (I have read Campbell, so I know what
                                qualifies as an "epic" and despite what
                                Campbell may have said to Bill Moyers,
                                SW is a POS. Star Trek is a *much better*
                                and a much more realisitc epic)
                                \_ Star Trek is realistic?  Are you totally
                                   stupid or just trolling again?
                                   \_ Star Trek is more realistic than
                                      SW. I never said that ST is realistic.
                                        \_ That's like saying the humpty dumpty
                                           story is more realistic than the
                                           wizard of oz.  zero is not greater
                                           than zero.  I find the gritty ugly
                                           future of SW more realistic than the
                                           politically correct ST junk.  The
                                           science in both is pure fantasy.  In
                                           what way is ST more realistic?
                                           \_ The gritty ugly future of SW?
                                              Its in the past you idiot.
                                              "Long, Long, Ago, In a Galaxy
                                               Far, Far, Away..."
                                              Have you even seen SW?
                                              And what's so gritty and ugly?
                                              All of the major cities GL
                                              has shown (the space port
                                              is not a major city) are
                                              neat and clean, manned by
                                              a work force of non-sentient
                                              slave bots.
                                              ST is more realistic in that
                                              it is a story of ordinary
                                              people (not super-human jedi)
                                              who perform extraordinary
                                              acts in the line of duty.
                                              (I'm talking about TOS here
                                              not TNG or any of that other
                                              bs that pretends to be ST)
                                \_ no one is a bigger idiot than tom.
                                  \_ actually, tom is an idiot, a big one.
                                    \_ but you two are extremely clever!  -tom
                                        \_ your real fans wouldn't participate
                                           in such mindless name calling, tom.
                                           we're still waiting to hear your
                                           "reasonable definition" of liberal.
                                           \_ The word was "leftist", and I
                                              don't argue politics with
                                              anonymous cowards.  -tom
                                              \_ True.  You just delete
                                                 anything that doesn't fit your
                                                 agenda.  Also, no one wanted
                                                 to debate with you.  A simple
                                                 definition isn't a request.
                                                 I'm not surprised you can't
                                                 manage to define yourself out
                                                 of the leftist category.  It
                                                 would be laughable.  I don't
                                                 see why you refuse to provide
                                                 a "reasonable definition" of
                                                 an English word.
                                \_ No, I didn't feel betrayed at all. And I
                                   watched SW in the theaters. Back in 1977.
                                   It's not like Ep. 1 was the first SW that
                                   disappointed (hello Ep. 6). It's like
                                   Star Trek. Some good, one or two great,
                                   rest monkey doo-doo.
                                   \_ Only watch even numbered ST movies.
                                      No such rule can be given for SW.
                                      They all suck.
                                   \_ The teddy bear episode should have been
                                      a big tip off that the next film was
                                      going to be pure crap.  Lesson learned.
                                      I will not be seeing the next one.
                                      \_ yeah really. the epic backstory
                                         was a big hoax. and even if there
                                         ever was a master plan, it was
                                         fucked right from the start when
                                         they destroyed the death star. the
                                         empire strikes back is the only
                                         saving grace of the series, the
                                         only one with some adult themes.
                                         but haven't you learned by now?
                                         kid stuff is what sells, look at
                                         pokemon and boy bands. so lucas
                                         went for the money and with ROTJ
                                         steered starwars firmly into the
                                         realm of kiddie flicks.
                                         \_ Which is why ST is better than
                                            SW. Star Trek dealt with adult
                                            themes in all of TOS and the
                                            first six movies.
2001/4/20 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:21028 Activity:nil
4/19    What's the difference between "rate" and "APR" in a mortgage?
2001/4/20 [Science/Physics] UID:21029 Activity:very high
4/19    Say you have a long pole of some hard substance. If you push on
        the end, how soon does the other end move? Is there some ripple
        effect at the atomic level that propagates at some speed? If so,
        is this "c"?
        \_ Are you trying to figure out if you can transmit information faster
           than the speed of light (say, a giant pole to another planet)? I
           think mechanical energy transfers through a metal pole similarly
           to how sound would through air.
        \_ if you push on my pole, baby, i'll move faster than c
        \_ Are you trying to figure out if you can transmit information
           faster than the speed of light (say, a giant pole to another
           planet)? I think mechanical energy transfers through a metal
           pole similarly to how sound would through air.
                \_ Yes, the sound speed in the metal.  You're propagating
                   compression/tension waves, more or less.  Not only
                   would it be < c, it would be WAY less than c.
        \_ Since the bonds that hold the hard substance together are
           electromagnetic, the maximum speed to transfer an impulse from one
           end to the other would be the speed of propogation of an EM wave.
           So, yes, c is the limit.
           \_ Sure, c is "the limit", but your understanding is poor.
              Consider hammering a metal train track with a sledghammer.
              How long would it take to "notice" that the rail was hammered?
              How long would it take your friend "joe" down the track
              to hear that it had been hammered?  The distance to joe
              divided by the speed of sound in metal, that's how long.
              Moving it is essentially the same as hammering it.  It's
              just a very large amplitude, slow frequency sound impulse.
              What is the speed of sound in steel?  Very high, but nothing
              like c.
              \_ hm, makes sense, thanks. so it seems the speed of sound in
                 diamond is around 10^4 m/sec. okay, there goes my plan
                 to revolutionize fiber optics. (fiber sonics?)
                 \_ What's the speed of light inside fiber optic cables then?
                    \_ approximately c/1.52.  Index of refraction of glass
                       is 1.52 ( vacuum speed / material speed ) --jon
                       \_ Then how is using diamond going to beat fiber optics?
                             \_ damn. as I suspected, people are already working
                                on everything. i was basically thinking about
                                what they call wavelength division multiplexing.
                                those fuckers.
                          \_ I said "there goes my plan." Although, something
                             else occured to me. But this one might be the
                             million dollar idea. I'm sure you buy that huh?
                             Hmm. --original poster
                             \_ hey, don't feel bad.  there are plenty
                             of very succesful internet companies that have
                             made all of their money via the reciprocal
                             motion of rigid rods.  it just has to be the
                             right rod.
                                \_ The one they shoved up your ass as
                                   they took all your money in exchange
                                   for worthless options.
                             \_ Oops, never mind.
                             \_ damn. as I suspected, people are already
                                 working n everything. i was basically
                                thinking about what they call wavelength
                                division multiplexing. those fuckers.
                                \_ take a look at negative ir.
        \_ I think Einstein said nothing, not even information itself, can
           travel faster than c.  But I think some quantum mechanics guys
           said otherwise.  They said for certain pair of particles
           far apart, if they do something to one particle, the other particle
           responses in some way in a time shorter than light requires to
           travel between the two.  It's something like that, I don't know
           exactly.
           \_ Feynman explained this to me once, and I thought I understood
              it at the time, but afterwards, I realized I had no idea what
              he was talking about. Here it is:
              http://www.stardrive.org/feynman.html -ausman
              \_ You knew/met Feynman?!? Lucky dog.
           \_ You are talking about "spooky action at a distance". The problem
              with this analysis is that it forgets to take into account the
              wave modes of the particles. There was a paper discussing this
              last year in phy. letters or something.
           \_ You can't use this to transmit a message, though.  Imagine
              that you and I have two coins that are mystically linked, so
              that when they are flipped, they both come up the same way.
              We both flip the coins a bunch of times, and -- wow! -- the
              sequence of heads and tails that arises is the same for us
              both.  But we can't know this until we get together and compare
              notes.  Until then, it just looks like a bunch of random
              coin flips.  This quantum thing is like that.
              \_ But you're assuming that "flipping a coin" is random.
                 It's not. If you train yourself, you can consistently flip
                 quarters to come up the same side pretty much every time.
2001/4/20 [Reference/Religion] UID:21030 Activity:nil
4/19    What do you mean Jedi is not a religion?
        <DEAD>us.imdb.com/PeopleNews/#10<DEAD>
        If Scientology is a religion, then so is the otherwise-known-as-
        make-George-Lucas-richer religion of Jedi.
        \_ Scientology is not a religion.
2001/4/20 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:21031 Activity:nil
4/19    Anybody have experience installing w98 drivers under w2k?  I read
        some FAQ about both conforming to windows driver model so they should
        be compatible.  I'm wondering if this is indeed true.
        \_ not true.
        \_ BZZZT!  Well written drivers won't even allow you to install them
           on the other OS.
           \_ No well written drivers will include both 98 and NT interfaces
              so that they automagically work with both versions.
                \_ Huh?
                   \_ Sorry.  No well written drivers will include both 98 and
                      NT interfaces so that they automagically work with both
                      versions.
2001/4/20 [Uncategorized] UID:21032 Activity:nil
4/18    How do i keep in.telnetd  from trying to do a DNS lookup?  Does FTP
        ever behave like this?  (Sorry for the confusion!) the question has
        been fixed.  I meant how do you keep in.telnetd from doing a reverse
        lookup on the incomming connection?
        \_ 80 columns, people.
        \_ utsl
        \_ don't run in.telnetd
                \_ sshd.
        \_ Edit the source
2001/4/20-22 [Health/Disease/General] UID:21034 Activity:high
4/19    What's the technical difference between viral meningitis and flu,
        and between cold and flu? Same phylum/genus/specie of virus strand
        with different potency? Sounds like they have similar symptons.
        \- are you looking for difference in cause or diagnostic symptoms?
        meningitis is an infection of the cerebro-spinal fluid aand can be
        either viral or bacterial. cold are caused by a large group of viruses.
        flu also from a small number of viruses but the flu virus is more
        of a continuum than distinct germs ... they gradually change in drifts
        with occasion dramatic changes (shifts), which explains large epidemics
        becuase few peopel have resistence to the new form. recommend
        l. garrett: the coming plague. ok tnx
        \_ Say it loud!  I've got Balamuthia mandrillaris, and I'm proud!
        \_ virus gets into brain - headaches
           \_ Bzzt.  that has much more to do with dehydration and fever
              than viruses in your brain.
        \_ I don't know the technical defferences, but I think you cough
           when you have a flu but not when you have a cold.
           \_ Bzzt.
        \_ Flu more _often_ involves nausea.
           \_ Bzzt.  Influenza is a respiratory illness.
              http://thedailyapple.com/level3/ds3/flhmds3.htm
           \_ Technically, you're an idiot...
2001/4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:21035 Activity:nil
4/19    Jew spreads her racist drivel about SATs at Cal.
        http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/jennings.html
2001/4/20-22 [Computer/Domains] UID:21036 Activity:kinda low
4/20    is there a command (like whois) to find the MX server for a domain?
        What is it?
        \_ nslookup -type=mx
        \_ dig mx [domain]
2001/4/20-22 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:21037 Activity:nil
4/20    If I want to insert a TAB character, what's the escape key in Emacs?
        \_ C-q TAB
        \_ C-i
2001/4/20-22 [Uncategorized] UID:21038 Activity:moderate
4/20    How often does network solutions do bulk deletions of expired names?
        I want to buy a name that has expired more than 3 months ago.
        \_ "When they damned well feel like it" is how they run the domain
           system.
        \_ When all attempts to auction it themselves have failed and they're
           convinced no one wants to pay them money for it.
2001/4/20-22 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:21039 Activity:moderate
4/20    How come sed -e 's/[\ \t\n]/ /g' doesn't work for the tab and \n?
        \_ obUsePerl
           perl -pe 's/[\s\n]/ /g'
           \_ perl -pe 's/\s/ /g' is sufficient --dbushong
        \_ This is ugly, but it works for tab:
           sed -e 's/'"`echo \"\t\"`"'/ /g'
           Oh, and what's the point of matching SPACE, TAB, and NEWLINE
           instead of just TAB and NEWLINE? Replacing SPACE with SPACE?
                \_ you mean /bin/echo right? echo (shell command) wouldn't
                   work. Also maybe the guy means 's/[\s]+/ /g'
                   \_ yup, /bin/echo or /usr/bin/echo
2001/4/20-21 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:21040 Activity:high
4/20    Why do we still have sanctions against Iraq when obviously the Iraqi
        gov't does not care?
        \_ "obviously".  You make this statement based on what?
           \_ the Iraqi gov't does not capitulate even though the Iraqi people
              and children suffer and die. So simple logic tells me that our
              sanctions hurt the innocent and do not accomplish our goals.
                 \_ Simple logic tells us no such thing. "The children
                    suffer and die", whose fault is that? Its the fault
                    of the children's parents. If the parents cared about
                    thier children, they would overthrow the iraqi gov.
                    and establish a free society that wasn't interested
                    in state sponsored terrorism.
                    Since the parents don't do that, it is logical that
                    they don't care about thier children and thus why
                    should we care?
                    And furthermore, why are the dependent on supplies
                    from the US to survive? Can't they live on what they
                    make in thier own country? No, uh, then they have to
                    play by our rules or suffer the consquences. If you
                    want my stuff, then be prepared to deal with my terms.
                    \_ This is the most childish agrument I've heard.
                       Let's suppose for one moment that you don't
                       like the US government, why don't you overthrow
                       it to show the iraqi parents 'how to do it'.
                       Maybe it's time you get out of soda hall and
                       see the real world.
                          \_ You miss the point. The original argument
                             is as suspect as the one advanced here.
                             Both are equally invalid.
                       \_ Yeah maybe you should try. But know what,
                          you will fail. Why? Because this is the
                          greatest nation on the face of the earth
                          and quite possibly in all of god's creation.
                    \_ like above post says, this argument is ridiculous.
                       the government controls the military. a bunch of
                       starving people can't just overthrow the gov't.
                       the eastern bloc communist countries coudn't just
                       revolt. and it isn't just a US sanction, the US
                       maneuvered the UN into a UN sanction by forgiving
                       a bunch of debts in return for votes.
                       \_ Yeah, like Solidarity in Poland didn't overthrow
                          the government? And the founding fathers didn't
                          overthrow the government? And the Indian National
                          Congress (literally lead by starving peasants)
                          didn't overthrow the government. The list goes
                          on. Machine guns may kill a few people, but the
                          will of the people will eventually triumph.
                          If the people in iraq are unwilling to do anything
                          about thier conditions, its thier problem not
                          mine.
                          And what is this BS about the UN getting
                          "manipulated". Its about F'ing time they
                          did something our way. Its not enough
                          that the UN gets my Tax $s, they want to
                          spend it the way that they want. Screw
                          that. As long as its our $s at work, its
                          our way. The UN wants different, let 'em
                          earn thier own money. Until the UN should
                          STFU.
                          If you think that our way is the wrong
                          way you are welcome to leave the US and
                          go live in whatever 3rd world hell hole
                          suits you better.
              \_ Our goals being what?  Iraq still has a nothing army and isn't
                 militarily in a position to hurt anyone outside their own
                 borders.  Mission accomplished.  You thought we had some other
                 goals?  Sanctions are about isolation.  Iraq is isolated.
                 \_ okay fine, with this argument you admit the US does not
                    care about human rights. so what then gives us the right
                    to prattle about human rights to china?
                     \_ No it doesn't.  It says the world isn't the nice little
                        black and white place you want it to be.
                        \_ no, it's about the US fucking over people so that
                           soccer moms can keep driving their SUVs.
                           \_ No its about the jealousy of other nations
                              that we have enough prosperity for our
                              "soccer moms" to drive SUVs. We worked
                              hard for it and they want to take it
                              away via state sponsored terrorism.
                              We have every right to prevent them
                              from doing that.
                    \_ we care about human rights. The people in iraq
                       are oppressed by the current government. There
                       are only two ways to set them free. Bomb the
                       current government out of existence or starve
                       it out of existence. Starving is cheaper than
                       bombing, though bombing would be quicker.
                       I favor starving, since its cheaper.
                        \_ bombing is more fun.  I love those CNN giant type
                           "WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST!" headlines on the tube.
                           \_ So is there some sort of CNN conspiracy where
                              CNN backs all wars, otherwise CNN would have no
                              business?
                        \_ This is the problem. If we truly believed the
                           rhetoric of Bush and Bush Jr. we should have
                           destroyed the Iraqi government like we destroyed
                           the Nazi government. And if they are doing
                           threatening things we should do it now. Otherwise
                           sanctions just 'kill babies'. If you think about it
                           the US probably kept Saddam in power because it
                           serves US interests. It lets us keep a firm grip.
              \_ eventually they will all die, and we will send in
                 our oil companies to run the place and we get cheap
                 gas.
        \_ so what happens if we lift the sanctions and the iraqi
           government starts funding programs of weapons of mass destruction
           targeted at the US? - non troll
           \_ well they are doing that anyway right? or we wouldn't have
              sanctions, eh? besides, china funds weapons of mass destruction
              targeted at the US and we don't have sanctions on them. what
              i'm saying is our methods don't solve the problem, they only
              hurt the innocent.
              \_ we should have sanctions on China. I agree that sanctions
                 don't solve the problem, but its better than bombing.
              \_ See above about our goals.  And there are degrees to things.
                 Funding isn't an either/or deal.  They might still have mass
                 weapons programs but they're a shadow of what they could be
                 if there weren't sanctions in place.  The world is not black
                 and white.
              \_ i agree sanctions suck and kill babies, but I can't think
                 of a better solution.
        \_ never fear, the us is gearing up for another hot war in the
           persian gulf. Haven't you noticed all the military propoganda
           on the tv these days? Start paying attention and it'll become
           clear. We'll be at war again within a year. :(
           \_ what's wrong with that? i want to watch some real violence/death
              on TV.. not enough of it. besides the iraqi are secretly
              arming. the coalition has fallen apart.
              \_ The Iraqis are not secretly arming. They're doing it quite
                 blatantly.
2001/4/20-22 [Reference/Law/Court] UID:21041 Activity:high
4/20    US District Court judge rules "The First Amendment clearly applies to
        the internet.  The law says that a person has a right to speak
        anonymously."  Who would've guessed?
        <DEAD>digitalmass.boston.com/news/daily/04/042001/chatter_privacy.html<DEAD>
        \_ but tom reserves the right to not reply to your
           posts on the motd.
           \_ Who said anything about tom?  The whole world doesn't revolve
              around tom.  The truth is tom is a very itty bitty tiny part of
              the world.  The post is about important things, not tom.
              \_ as far a free speach on the internet goes, i think that
                 what i will call the "tom phenomenon" is very important.
                 by this i mean that unrestrained speach also can lead to
                 unrestrained censorship.  in the end, as on the motd, we
                 are not censored by large insitituions or governments,
                 but by single, petty individuals who feel very strongly that
                 certain points of view need to be censored.
              \_ tom is so k3w1!
                 How many tom's does it take to screw in a light bulb?
                 One. Cause the world revolves around him.
                 - tom's #1 fan
                \_ you already used this joke with Alan Greenspan this morning,
                   ikiru.  -tom
                   \_ tom, i think most people only bait you and pick on you
                      because you're intellectually dishonest and hypocritical.
                      it isnt personal.  youre not worth getting personal over.
                      it -is- fun to bait you though.  youre very knee-jerk and
                      reflexive which adds a dose of consistency to life that
                      some find comforting. thanks for being the same old you
                      every day without any growth or change all these years.
                      keep on truckin!  -!ikiru
                      \_ said like a moron whos never made a solid argument
                         in his life. you're the kind of person who likes to
                         play devil's advocat because it's easier than making
                         constructive arguments. you should kill yourself.
                         \_ A friend of the devil is a freind of mine.
2001/4/20-22 [Recreation/Dating, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:21042 Activity:high
4/20    Can some one explain how silly puddy works please?
        \_ Ok you female "Friends" watcher.. MOTD is for INTELLIGENT questions
           not to wonder if silly puddy can be made to look like the prepuce
                \_ wow, someone used the words "motd" and "intelligent"
                   in the same sentence
           \_ There are females on the motd? WOW! pixP!
        \_ putty, not puddy, you nincompoop.
        \_ I'm interested in making a male masterbation device with silly
           putty. I thought you guys might already know some web sites
           where I could get some information
           \_ masturbation, not masterbation, you nincompoop.
              \_ Shut the fuck up, twink.
                \_ twink is such a stupid word.
                  \_ No, it's a word for stupid, you twink.
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:April:20 Friday <Saturday>