Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:April:18 Wednesday <Tuesday>
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2001/4/18 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:21008 Activity:moderate
4/17    Sysadmin job posting --appel

                /csua/pub/jobs/Skotos
                \_ advanced experience with Windows and 2+ years Unix
                   experience for $15/hour?  hahahaha
        \_ advanced experience with Windows and 2+ years Unix
           experience for $15/hour?  hahahaha
                \_ That's 2+ years Unix experience.  Not Unix sysadmin exp.
                   I actually read the job, (unlike you), and that's ok for
                   a student slacker job as long as they understand the kid
                   has other things to do and is going to flake a lot.  It
                   looks ok to me for someone who needs a first job and wants
                   more on their resume than "Member of CSUA/HKN/XCF/Fubar"
                   or whatever other student clubs there are.  Non-job shit
                   may sound important to you, the student, but out here no
                   one gives a flying fuck what your non-job related beer
                   swilling student club was doing.  -!appel
                   \_ the prequisite skills that are preferred is a bit over
                      the top for just 2 yrs xp.  you're going to weed out
                      a lot of good people who would take such a low wage.
                      people already with all those skills can get much better.
                        \_ The preqs for a student job are always fluffed. They
                           obviously (to me) just want a kid who knows some
                           unix and is really good with windows.  It looked
                           like a really straight forward job posting.  Anyone
                           not afraid to apply is probably good enough to get
                           hired and I still say the pay is decent.  This is
                           a student job.  Your alternative as a student is to
                           get $6-$8 at the library or $8 washing bottles in
                           the Chem dept or $8 as an "engineering aid" for
                           eecs which has the same skillset requirements: a
                           student who knows some unix and a lot of windows.
                           There are *no* students who fit the exact criteria
                           of this job.  They're fishing for what they can get.
                           This is no different than FTE job postings for much
                           higher end professionals.  They ask for the moon but
                           will be happy with someone who knows the moon is
                           made of cheese.  (You did know the moon is made of
                           cheese, right?)
2001/4/18 [Uncategorized] UID:21009 Activity:kinda low
4/17    This picture is one of those classic Life magazine type moments:
http://a799.ms.akamai.net/7/799/388/c26bc2cd5e93af/www.msnbc.com/news/979510.jpg
        \_ uh, why the <DEAD>akamai.net<DEAD> stuff?  Start at ^ works fine
2001/4/18 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/HW/CPU] UID:21010 Activity:very high
4/17    I'm between jobs and want to build a fast Athlon Thunderbird box.
        Any suggestions?  I'm not sure about which motherboard to get
        (KT133A?), what the diff is with the T-bird 200 and 266 MHz bus
        versions, and whether PC133 or DDR memory is what I need.  Thanks!
        \_ What does being between jobs add to your query? Does that mean
           you want one on the cheap? --dim
           \_ stop being impertinent.
        \_ Go to http://www.anandtech.com Lots of info there. They just did a review
           of KT266 vs. all the other DDR 266 MBs out there. The forums are
           of great help too.
           \_ Thanks.  The message I took home was:
              "If anything, you should still stay away from the KT266, the
               platform is simply not mature enough."  So I guess I'm
               going with a KT133A chipset, probably an Asus.  After reading
               a # of articles, I'm still not sure about whether a 200 or
               266 is what I need, and whether the KT133A supports DDR.
               \_ Um.  There are othe choices than those two.  Go with an
                  Asus A7M266; it's gotten good reviews, wins all of the
                  benchmarks, and isn't based on that chipset.
                  \_ What is "those two"?  Thanks.
                     \_ Currently there are 3 chipsets:
                        AMD 760
                        Ali Magik something or another
                        Via KT266
                        \_ KT133A? KT133?  Are these older?
                           \_ Yup.
                     \_ The two stated: KT133A (old tech) and the KT266
                         (unstable)
               \_ Is there a winning combo for Athlons?  For Intels, you
                  get a Pentium 3 866 with PC133 CAS2 memory on a CUSL2-C
                  and whatever video card you want. (since the Pentium 4's
                  blow, currently, and the higher-speed Pentium 3's have
                  heat problems, to say the least)
        \_ just one word about the KT133A, dont get any orb-type fan with it
           it'll bash and cut the capacitors situated right next to the CPU
        \_ I think this fall will be a much better time to buy, fwiw. The past
           six months have not brought enough advancement to be worthwhile.
           Laptops will get more choices by then too, with amd and ati getting
           new chips out.
           \_ "later" is always a better time.
        \_ You keep talking about this filling some need but never say what
           your need is.  Is this a game box, a cpu cruncher, a web server, or
           just a random toy because you're bored?  http://www.tomshardware.com is a
           good place to start for opinion/info/benchmarks.
        \_ Get the 266 FSB.  This means that the cpu bus is running at 133MHz
           (or DDR if you have DDR RAM), and the mult is much lower.  The 133
           bus wins all around over a 100mhz bus, imo.  Also, it would behoove
           you to get a system that can eat the $50 256M DIMMS.  This memory
           can only be used by certain chipsets.  I have a 1000/266 TBird with
           $512M of the cheap RAM.  It's on an ASUS A7V133.  --sowings
           \_ jee-zuz.  That will get you, what, 2500 terabytes of RAM?
        \_ All of you giving advice don't have a basis for it.  You don't know
           what he wants it for.
2001/4/18 [Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:21011 Activity:kinda low
4/17    from truss:  Err#4 EINTR
        Will someone please translate.
        \_ a system call was interuppted. It should be safe to
           resume.
           \_ thanks.  Unfortunately i'm getting TONS of these in a
              row with PID's associated with child threads that are
              dying in apache.
28015:  getpid()                                        = 28015 [28013]
28015:  door_return(0x00000004, 0, 0x00000000, 0)       Err#4 EINTR
28015:  getpid()                                        = 28015 [28013]
28015:  door_return(0x00000004, 0, 0x00000000, 0)       Err#4 EINTR
28015:  signotifywait()                                 Err#4 EINTR
28015:  getpid()                                        = 28015 [28013]
28015:  door_return(0x00000004, 0, 0x00000000, 0)       Err#4 EINTR
28015:  getpid()                                        = 28015 [28013]
                                        ...
              \_ You are on Solaris right? I forget why door_return
                 fails with EINTR, but this is probably related to
                 nscd (nameserver caching daemon timing out or not
                 running or something)
                 I just looked this up in an old Solaris book. Looks
                 like this could happen if a signal is recieved while
                 door_return is called.
              \_ The door_call() function is not a restartable  system  call.
                 It returns  EINTR if a signal was caught and handled by this
                 thread.
              \_ Could be a NIS or permissions problem or need kernel patch
2001/4/18 [Uncategorized] UID:21012 Activity:very high
4/17    How accurate is the time reported by 767-2676 (POP-CORN)?  Within
        milliseconds?  Seconds?  Minutes?  Thx.
        \_ go visit <DEAD>www.usno.navy.mil<DEAD> for the official time
           \_ Thanks for the great info!
        \_ within a few seconds.  -geordan
        \_ Compared with USNO and NIST atomic clock phone numbers,
           POP-CORN is right on. I would guestimate it is accurate to 0.1 s
           Compare it yourself :
           National Institute of Standards and Technology       +1 303 499 7111
           United States Naval Observatory Time Voice Announcer +1 202 762 1401
        \_ FYI, POP-anything works, not just POP-CORN.
           \_ POP-ROCKS? POP-BONER?
                \_ Yes.  Even POP-yermom.
2001/4/18 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:21013 Activity:very high
4/17    Now that those rat bastards at VALinux are getting out of the
        desktop market who is a reasonable alternative as a supplier?
        IBM? HP? Dell? Someone else? --dim
        \_ what was good about VALinux? there's penguincomputing.
           I don't know why you'd care, just install Linux on anything.
                                        \_ Just say no. If you must
                                           use PC hardware, at least
                                           install FreeBSD.     \
                                           \_ and deal with freeBSD?  fuck that.
                                              \_ Deal with what?  You're either
                                                 a troll, ignorant, or simply
                                                 deeply confused.
           what's so bad about PC hardware? it's cheap and fast _)
           hey, this is a good troll.
           \_ BIOS, crappy memory bandwidth, floppy disks, IDE drives,
              32bit PCI, ISA, bad power supplies, awful SMP performance.
              I don't think that I need to go on.
              \_ You do realize you can buy a PC with SCSI and PCI64,
                 right? SMP performance is partly a function of the OS.
                 Have you seen what kind of crap Sun is shipping these
                 day? Their low end boxes are IDE! --dim
                 \_ Sun is shipping this bottom-end server crap, the 280R:
                    redundant hot-swap power supplies with independent power
                    cords, hot-plug power subsystems, fibre-channel disk
                    drives, backplane has software-mirrored hot-plug boot
                    drives. 8MB cache. 8GB RAM. lights-out management card.
                    Free solaris. Now hook it up to the T3 external hardware
                    RAID array, GBIC cards, dual-ported 10K RPM FC-AL disk.
                    Max. multimode optical fiber length of 500 meters.
                    Two redundant loop cards per enclosure FC-AL circuitry
                    Two Power/cooling units per enclosure, Integrated
                    backup battery power, Redundant fans, Battery backup
                    for cache destage. Free Veritas. Yeah I agree its shitty
                    product. But your cheap PC will always be its bitch.
                    You can mass your million-man Red Army, but their few
                    precision jet bombers will blow you to bits.
                    So what if their products "suck", I'd like to take a poll:
                    if SUDDENLY TODAY, someone gave you choice of a FREE $1000
                    PC or a FREE $1000 SunBlade, which one would you take?
                \_ VA Linux sales were good at calling over and over and over
                   like clock work.  I always knew it was the first thursday
                   because that's when VA Linux sales would call.
                    \_ the SunBlade is a piece of shit.  The 280R, configured
                       with 8GB of RAM and a T3 RAID array, costs $90K,
                       hardly "bottom-end".  -tom
                    \_ You are nothing more than a shill for Sun. -ausman
                       \_ No, that's the top-end E280R configuration.
                          I just priced a $10,000 one on their site
                          (one CPU, one disk, etc..)
                       \_ A $1000 PC is a POS. A Sun Blade is not. I'd
                          take the SunBlade over even a $10K PC.
                       \_ The 280R *is* the bottom-end of the Sun server line.
                          It's a workgroup server. Max two CPUs only.
                          \_ are you stupid or just lying?  The bottom-end
                             server is the Netra X1, which costs an order
                             of magnitude less than the 280R, and is a piece
                             of shit.  -tom
                 \_ are you comparing PC servers to desktop machines? --jon
                 \_ Ultra 2, 2 300 MHz US2 Procs, 1GB Ram, Creator 3D
                    now that is a Desktop Machine (~ 2 - 3K now).
                    Or an Ultra 60.
                    I prefer real hardware to some cheap broken PC
                    crap.
                    \_ An Ultra 2 is a piece of shit these days. --dim
                       \_ Really? I guess that the 2 GB of RAM
                          it supports along with the 2 300 MHz
                          US2 procs are just no good compared
                          to your OC'ed Celli 933s. I'm so sorry
                          that your IO bandwidth and your memory
                          bus speed SUX, as does your SMP bus.
                          But I'll bet your GeForce2MX make up
                          for that in your "real world" applications.
                 \_ PowerMac G4 w/2x533 G4e's, 1 GB Ram, Ultra 160
                    drives, GEForce2 (or 3). Now that is a desktop
                    machine.
                 \_ P5-166, 96 megs RAM, 3 EIDE disks: 1.2 GB, 2.0 GB, 4.3 GB,
                    Matrox Mystique (the first one), OpenBSD, open air case,
                    300 watt PS, 1.44 diskette, 2 serial, 1 par, dual 10/100.
                    Rock solid!  Top that, kids!
                    \_ SparcStation 10, 1 SM61 proc, 272 MB Ram,
                       2 Barracudas, QFE, no framebuffer (serial
                       console only), OpenBSD CURRENT.
                    \_ p5-166?
        \_ Dell makes rather nice Linux boxen. Don't expect their
           Linux (software) support to be anywhere as good as VA Linux
           though.
           \_ Are you joking?  My research group ordered some computers
              from Dell and they SUCK.  We ordered the plane vanilla
              machines with Linux pre-installed and Dell installed
              unsupported video and network cards then dragged their
              feet when we asked them to fix there mistake.  I will
              never again by Dell.
           \_ VA has support? Surely you jest.
                \_ VA Linux sales were good at calling over and over
                   and over like clock work.  I always knew it was the
                   first thursday because that's when VA Linux sales
                   would call.
                   \_ I said support.
2001/4/18 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:21014 Activity:nil
4/17    What is ld.config?  What is it used for?
        \_ It's a file used by some unix boxes to tell binaries and compilers
           where to look for object library files (.so and .a).  Man ldconfig.
           Considered by evil communists to be a bad thing.  -John
2001/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:21015 Activity:nil
4/17    Did you know that asking "how to XYZ" (instead of "how do you do XYZ")
        is grammatically correct in Russian?                    -misha
           \_ Hey, sign with your login name, imposter! -- real misha.
                \_ 'misha' sounds like a girl's name.  Only that you're
                   not a girl you're a big ugly guy.  Why do you have
                   such a cute name.
        \_ Interesting but thankfully this isn't Russia and most of us are
           not fluent in Russian.  When the Russians emerge from the stone
           age, get a grip on their economy, wipe out their mafia, stop selling
           mass destruction technologies to terrorists and make some minimal
           effort cleaning up the communist era environmental mess, I'll take
           a tour with my english/russian guidebook in hand.
           \_ huh? That entire paragraph would be just as valid if you
              replaced "Russia" with "America", and "communist era" with
              "unrestrained capitalist era".With the possible removal
              of that crack about the stone age.
              \_ Unrestrained capitalism is good, young troll.
              \_ you have much to learn, seeker. the wise sodan would have
                 simply implemented said replacement to greater effect.
              \_ BZZZZT!  You have much to learn, Seeker.  The wise Sodan would
                 have known wtf he was talking about before spewing the typical
                 ignorant lefist rhetoric about the US being the same as all
                 other countries.  I'll grant that Russian material sciences
                 are ahead of the rest of the world, the rest is still in the
                 70's if it wasn't stolen.  So you're actually wrong twice in
                 a sense.  You get an "A for effort" to keep your self esteem
                 up though and to increase diversity.  We need stupid people
                 at Cal, too.
                 \_ You get a "D" for debate talent. There is virtually
                    nothing you said specific to the text preceeding.
        \_ Lots of weird sentence fragment stuff is grammatically correct
           in Russian.  Russian is efficient.  It doesn't have stupid useless
           articles and verbs that do not serve any function.
           \_ we should learn to speak in lisp
              \_ FOL!  FOL!  FOL is the STANDARD!  Language.
        \_ As is in Chinese.
        \_ no, but if you're in need of more efficient usages, try:
                "how is x done?
                "how do I X?"
                "how?"
        \_ then the questions asked on the motd should be in Russian or
           Chinese.
        \_ how do you say it in latin?  (there, was that so hard?)
           \_ psb timer has now been started
           \_ owhay?
              \_ did you too attempt to find a translator and came up with
                 nothing but pig latin converters?
                 \_ You suck.
              \_ Partha, Partha, wherefore art thou, Partha?
                 \_ Because his parents named him that.
                    \_ not why, where. "The bard" misused the language.
                       \_ Young troll, you must learn never to contradict
                          dict directly.  Merely twist what is there, ever
                          so slightly.
                       \_ you're a moron.
2001/4/18 [Uncategorized] UID:21016 Activity:high
4/17    Is there any way to look up the geographical location for a telephone
        area code?  Thanks.
        \_ i think that if you dial 0 an operator will give you this info
        if you ask.
        \_ do a search for "reverse yellow pages" or "reverse lookup"
        \_ http://www.555-1212.com . Lazy fuck. --dim
           \_ Thanks.
           \_ I don't think it was lazy so much as ignorant.  Never attribute
              to evil that which can be explained by ignorance or incompetence.
        \_ -rwxr-xr-x  1 jwang  contrib  1795 Jan  3 00:54 /csua/bin/areacode*
        \_ http://www.usps.gov/ncsc/lookups/lookup_ctystzip.html
2001/4/18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:21017 Activity:nil 66%like:21064
4/17    perl-5.6.1 installed, bugs to mconst.
2001/4/18 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/Theory] UID:21018 Activity:moderate
4/17    Lookin' for something that can generate a dependency graph for
        C's #include and Makefile's include. Thanks!
        \_ Check out AST on freshmeat or sourceforge.  It's out of AT&T
           research.
           \_ ast.pl is also good.
        \_ make depend?
2001/4/18 [Computer/Networking] UID:21019 Activity:very high
4/19    Anyone know good firewall info ideally balancing maximum security with
        minimum effort (ignoring cost and competence)?
        \_ If you want a ready-made solution, you can pick up a sonicwall
           for about $1000--they are fairly decent.  For high security, I
           would recommend OpenBSD with ipf--syntax is well documented and
           straightforward.  http://www.openbsd.org and for the ipf page,
           (also known as ipfilter), http://coombs.anu.edu.au/ipfilter
           Mail me if you want some tips.  -John
        \_ yeah. sure.  is this a consulting job?
        \_ yes, its called an 'airwall'.  Complete internet security
           accomplished with about 30 seconds worth of effort. Simply find
           your router and unplug its internet connection.  Where do I send
           my consulting invoice?
        \_ OpenBSD -> 30 min to 1 hr install, 30 min setup, 30 min testing.
                                           firewall?
           \_ and 4ever to make world.  Linux + iptables is fine
                                        \_ Yeah if you don't care about
                 BTW, D0 U KN0W WH1CH V3R510N 0F G11BC 1 N33D 2 RUN
                 K3RN31 2.4? I C4N7 F1ND TH3 R1GHT RPM on RH.C0M.
                                           performance, security, stability
                                           logging and working stateful
                                           filtering.
                 RUNN1G K3RN31 2.4? I C4N7 F1ND TH3 R1GHT 1Z on RH.C0M.
                                           BTW, What's the IP Addr of your
                                           firewall? I could use an extra
                                           machine for running setiathome.
              \_ D00D U R 50 R1GH7! M4K3 W0R1D SUX! Y WOU1D U BU11D
                 UR B1N4R135 4ND 11BR4R145 WH3N U C4N U53 RPM5?!?
                 BTW, D0 U KN0W WH1CH V3R510N 0F G11BC 4ND LD 1 N33D 4
                 RUNN1G K3RN31 2.4? I C4N7 F1ND TH3 R1GHT 1Z 0N RH.C0M.
                 \_ So how come Mac and Windows users don't get shit for
                    not compiling every program they use and relying on
                    things like Install Shield or .sit and worrying whether
                    their registry settings get all f'ed up?
                    \_ D00D U U53 M$ LO53*?!? U N33D 2 UPGR4D3 2 4 R341
                       05! 1 C4N 1N57411 31337 R3D H47 GN00/L1NSUX 4 U!
                       N0 1 U535 M4C5. 17 15 4 S10W A55 T0Y 4 L17713
                       K1D5! 31337 H4X0R5 411 U53 DU41 C3L3 733'5 0C'3D
                       2 1 G1G!
2001/4/18 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:21020 Activity:kinda low
4/18    Is there an easy way to do an emacs-style text-fill in vi?
        \_ Not really.  ":set autowrap" is the best you can do.
          \_ Which version of vi supports this option? solaris and debian
             came up with errors.
        \_ :!fmt can do that in vi...
          \_ Thank you.
2001/4/18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/TJB] UID:21021 Activity:very high
4/17    Aside from Green Day, any popular bands/artists perform for free
        at Berkeley?
        \_ Tiffany!  Imperial Teen played last year.
        \_ back in my day, Fugazi. - paolo also primus at cloyne
           I also just remembered: there was a greenday, offspring, rancid
           show at cloyne for $3 (almost free).  Cloyne was good in its day
           now all they put on is wannabee "djs"
           \_ you're implying that tjb is a wannabe dj??
           \_ back in my day, Billy Bragg and the J. Giles Band (mind,
              not at the same time) -erikred
                \_ is that the "my gf's in the centerfold" guy?
        \_ To add to the above list, Devo. There were a hundred bands
           that played on lower sproul, but few were "popular". Susanna
           Hoffs was a Cal student, lived in the dorms (unit 3 IIRC)
2001/4/18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:21022 Activity:high
4/18    I want to filter a file with sed and store the output back into
        the same file.  Is there a way to do this without a temp file?
        \_ no, if you want to do this use either awk or perl (perferably
           perl)
           \_ Please use a language (preferably English).
           \_ perl -pi -e 's/.../.../g ; s/other/foo/g' file1 file2 ...
        \_ yes.
2001/4/18 [Uncategorized] UID:21023 Activity:nil 54%like:21005
4/18    reviewP on nweaver's technical talk, thanks.
        \_ t.  A review exists.
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:April:18 Wednesday <Tuesday>