Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:April:16 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2001/4/16-17 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:20990 Activity:high
4/16    In a C statement like "if (foo > bar)" where foo is a int8 and
        bar is in32, how does the compiler translate that?  Does it turn
        it into a int32 to int32 comparison?  Or does it chop off bar and
        turn it into int8 to int8 comparison? If it does turn foo into an
        int32, where does it get the memory?  Compiler assign it a new
        register?  If so, is there a possibility that you run out of registers
        if you have lot of comparisons of different sizes?  Thanks.
        \_ 1. How a person writes a program has no bearing on how it will
           look like in the procedure stack. If a function is a leaf
           function and uses less registers than is actually available then
           there's no need for a new procedure stack. Where does it get the
           memory? The compiler figures this out.
           2. Yes, you can run out of registers. What's the solution?
           It's called register allocation.  There exists a myriad of
           algorithms to deal with this issue. Take 164 and you'll learn
           all about them. Not everything in a function fits in the register
              ints means "store in register and allow the automatic sign
              extension to happen". don't let the above comment make you
              think that int8<>int32 comparisons are somehow less efficient.
           \_ Uh, 164 with Savage Sue barely touched on register allocation.
        \_ C does type promotion.  In this case, foo will end up being a
           32-bit value that is the same, numerically, as the original
           8-bit value.
        \_ It creates a temporary int32 for the comparison.  The temporary
           value is normally stored in a register, but it will end up in
           memory instead if you run out of registers.
           \_ note that this doesn't mean shit in a modern architecture.
              your registers are 32 bits wide at least already, so that
              additional 24 bits are already wasted. type promotion of
              ints is actually a noop in a modern architecture: it's already
              stored as a sign extended 32 bit value. don't let the above
              comment make you think that int8<>int32 comparisons are somehow
              less efficient.
              \_ They are less efficient.  ALU operations don't automatically
                 sign extend 8-bit values in a register.  You need to do that
                 separately. For example, on a Sun:
                 int foo(char c, int i) { return c + i; }
                 int bar(int i1, int i2) { return i1 + i2; }
                 when you compile this with the -S option the two functions
                 are almost the same except:
                         stb     %o0, [%fp-17]
                         ldub    [%fp-17], %o0
                         sll     %o0, 24, %o1
                         sra     %o1, 24, %o0
                         ld      [%fp+72], %o1
                 used to perform the sign extension
                 \_ can you turn on -O  and rerun this, please?
                    \_ Similar results, though much shorter.  For both Sun
                       cc and gcc, foo produces a sll and sra by 24 but
                       not for bar. So yes, C promotion does incur overhead.
                       sll %o0, 24, %o0
                       sra %o0, 24, %o0
                       add %o0, %o1, %o0
                       add %o0, %o1, %o0
                       \_ i based my initial assertion on the fact that
                          many architectures provide a load byte instruction
                          which does sign extension on load to register.
2001/4/16-17 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:20991 Activity:high
4/16  I have system command and I have windows98.  I want to install w2k
      and use SC to switch between the two.  Is it possible to install
      my applications in a standard partition and have both OS see them?
      Since most apps dumps DLLs all over, does this mean installing the
      program twice?  Once from w98 and another from w2k?  Is this even
      possible?  Thanks.
      \_ It is possible.  Installing app twice, save yourself many headache.
        \_ It isn't worth it.  Just run win2k and be done with it.  And you
           don't need SC to switch.  Use the w2k boot loader/switcher.  Why
           do you think you'd still need 98 after 2k is installed?
                \_ Games, certain DVD players, certain CD-RW players, etc.
                    -crebbs (who doesn't have win98 installed ANYWHERE)
                   \_ Most games work under W2K, unlike NT. In fact, I haven't
                      run into a game that doesn't work under W2K.
                   \_ Name a game published in the last 3 years that won't run
                      under w2k.  Which DVDs and CDRWs dont have w2k drivers?
                      I've got a DOS 1.1 game that will run under w2k.
                      \_ i think connectix virtual game station is 9x-only.
        \_ Sounds like a registry nightware just waiting to happen. The
           windows registry isn't the binary equivalent of /etc/* files.
           It needs to be feared and respected.
           \_ Oh please.  FUD.  I've done it.  It just sucks installing all
              your apps twice.  If you insist on doing this, however, I suggest
              that you not only install all apps twice but create a second
              Program Files directory.  So you'd have C:\Program Files *and*
              C:\Win_98Program Files or whatever suits your fancy.  For the
              FUD mongering clueless, each OS stores the registry files in a
              different location.  If you don't know wtf you're talking about,
              please just don't.  The better answer is just install w2k and
              let it manage the boot loader process (see c:\boot.ini) if you
              absolutely must switch back to win98 for some obscure reason.
              Note that when installing w2k, you need to keep the disk as a
              FAT32 partition.  There are win98 drivers to use NTFS but you
              can't have your win98 boot partition on NTFS.
                \_ I've done it too and ended up in a whole world of pain.
                   This is highly application dependent. Most games,
                   MS Office and Netscape are good candidates for apps
                   that can be installed twice. The fact is that if you
                   change the registry in one os and not in the other
                   damage can and will occur.  You can not say that
                   installing twice will work in the general case.
2001/4/16 [Computer/Theory] UID:20992 Activity:high
4/15    Anyone know anything about the profs teaching Math 110 in the Fall?
        Specifically, Anshelevich, Givental, Harrison, Neu, and Pugh.  Plus,
        "The Staff".
        \_ You should really wait till either Demmel or Kahan teaches 110
           to take it.
        \_ Harrison was the worst prof. I had at Berkeley.  Avoid like the
        \_ Pugh is very good, though he gives difficult exams.
           \_ Is he related to "plugh", "xyzzy" or "say echo"?
        \_ Both Givental and Pugh have a rather sizeable "hardcore" reputation
           attached to them. Which, of course, may be good or bad, depending
           on what you're looking for.
        \_ "The Staff" is long and wooden. It's currently hidden in Wu's
           office. On occasion, it is inserted up naughty students' recti for
           maximal educational effect.
                                   \- you know for the longest time i misparsed
                                   this thinking it was a reference to prof.
                                   wooden and some new prof long ... until i
                                   remembered it was woodIN@math ...heh ...
                                   speaking of H. Woodin, the tarski lectures
                                   begin tomorrow on set theory foundations.
           \- I would take Pugh, i dont know Anshelevich. Pugh used to give
                                             \- this guy seems to have a good
                                             sense of humor.
           "open problems" in 214, so he has his sick bastard side but he does
           care about teaching. I would avoid his wife [Harrison]. ok tnx.
           \_ hi psb! (note: psb supports this guy. once again, testament
              to him being hardcore. it's up to you to decide whether this
              is actually a good thing. which it may or may not be.)
                \_ Only GPA matters.
           \_ I can recommend Neu.  Homework was difficult, lectures were
              informative, and were tests not very hard at all.
              informative, and tests were not very hard at all.
              \_ I had Neu for 128A. I concur, although his tests weren't
                 exactly cake. They just seemed like it after the killer
                 homework. --dim
2001/4/16 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:20993 Activity:high
4/15    I have a friend who has a degree in Journalism. My friend would
        like to get a Masters in CS. Where in the bay area can my
        friend get a masters degree quickly and at a reasonable cost?
        Thanks in advance.
        \_ Awesome troll!  Congrats!
        \_ How in the hell does this person expect to get a Master's in
           CS quickly unless he has already taken a lot of undergraduate
           coursework in CS?
                \_ golden gate univ, for example. 45 units from start to
                   finish with no prior knowledge of CS. Just pay about
                   $22.5k. but what other choices are out there?
        \_ Stanford "Vending Machine" Master's program.  You put your money,
           in, you get your Master's out.  Is considered to be inferior to
           Berkeley undergrad, and nobody takes it seriously unless you do
           research, but it fits his requirements.
           \_ Uh, getting into Eng. for masters at Stanford is almost
              impossible without recommendations from Eng. Profs. This
              is true even if you work at a big company like Sun or Cisco.
              With a UG in Journalism, the farm will probably not even
              look at you.
                \_ Not true.  Stanford has a program with "industry" and other
                   places like the LBL where staff get in by filling out a
                   form.  No letters of rec or any such thing is required from
                   Eng. profs anywhere.  If you don't know what you're talking
                   about, don't talk.
                   \_ Really?  I thought the HCP (Honors Cooperative Program)
                      applicants need to compete with all the regular grad
                      school applicants at the same year, so it would be
                      equally hard/easy.  No?
           \_ If $tanfurd grad is inferior to Cal undergrad, is $tandfurd grad
              inferior to its own undergrad?
              \_ Comparable. Stanfurd CS undergrad << Berkeley CS undergrad
           \_ BTW, does Cal offer a part-time program for MSCS these days?
2001/4/16 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:20994 Activity:low
4/15 so i want my "from" field to be different when i'm
     replying to email in a certain inbox.  how? thanks
        \_ set alternates
           set reverse_name
        \_ Read the documentation for your e-mail program.  Without that
                crucial detail, there's no way in hell we can tell you.
                \_ mutt.  i didn't realize other people
                   would use any mail client besides mutt,
                   I apologize.
                   \_ I think this has been discussed fairly recently on
                      comp.mail.mutt; check deja/google.  It's a send-hook.
                   \_ troll.  no cookie.  kissing toms' ass.  bad.
2001/4/16 [Science/Electric] UID:20995 Activity:nil
4/15    I have some questions about my PG&E bill... I've always thought
        it was too high but I figured since we run 4 computers and lots
        of electronic stuff in the house that would explain it. but
        recently we went on a 3.5 week vacation. We left one computer
        running (but no monitors), the fridge, a TV satellite receiver,
        maybe a few clocks and other small items, but nothing else: no
        lights, no heating or A/C, nothing that I would expect to consume
        a significant amount of electricity. The latest bill (which
        corresponds almost exactly with the time we were gone) is lower
        than normal but still $80... (for a 1400 sq ft townhouse). Isn't
        that weird? Is there something wrong with the meter? or should I
        just write it off as more high bay area living expenses or caused
        by the energy crisis? Also, I know this is a dumb question,
        but what exactly uses Gas in a normal house? The heater / water
        heater? I've heard some dryers do but I'm pretty sure mine is
        electric, and the oven is electric too.
        \_ furnace & water heater are most common, stove & oven also
           very common, gas fridges & dryers aren't that common but
           aren't unheard of
           \_ The pilot lights use a lot of gas.  When I last lived in an apt
              I cut my gas part of the PG&E bill by 90% (from $10 to $1) by
              simply turning off the pilot lights in the stove and the heater
              and lighting them only when I use them.  (I cook about every
              other day.)
        \_ Numerous passive devices like your TV will eat up some power also.
           \_ I heard the fridge uses the biggest share of power.  Check your
              bill and see how many kWh you've actually used instead of how
              many dollars it costs.
2001/4/16 [Uncategorized] UID:20996 Activity:nil
4/15    Joey Ramone, RIP. Next is Marlon Brando.
        \_ and for the better discerning motd reader; is this true:
                \_ probably not
                        \_ maybe so
2001/4/16 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:20997 Activity:very high
4/15    Is the new Powerbook G4 worthwhile compared to PC laptops?
        \_ After getting one free from work, couple comments:
           They get hotter. Wait for nVidia's GeForce2Go to get
           built in, the slot load can jam if you flex the case
           too much, and get 256MB of RAM for OS X, otherwise
           it can be pooky. Other than those minor quips, best
           laptop I've ever owned, and much much better than
           the Vaio it replaced.
        \_ Honestly, unless you need the OS X, the Powerbook G4 is,
           like the rest of Apple's performance line, overpriced. Now
           of course people will argue about that but the fact is
           Apple has nothing anywhere near the price/performance of
           this Toshiba "gaming" laptop for $2400:
           That has a Geforce2go, integrated everything and p3-850.
           I mean it's the same story for all their hardware. People try
           to compare an overpriced Vaio and say "see it's not much more."
           And despite being thin and titanium it's not that light.
           oh yeah, check out the combo DVD/CDRW on that toshiba. still
           impressed with "slot loading (yay!)" on the Apple?
           \_ Okay I looked at this, but its $2400 while the apple is
              $2599. Now the display on this is only 1024x768 while
              apple does 1152x768. Also, there is not integrated Airport
              antenna, you need to get one of those ugly Lucent PCMCIA
              cards. The toshiba is heavier than the Ti as well. For
              $200 less you are getting a considerably crappier machine.
              I don't know about you, but I'd rather not cut corners
              when spending upwards of $2K. Now if the Toshiba cost
              1000-1500 I'd agree that the Ti was overpriced.
        \_ The new Titaniums are pretty nice.  There are two ways to
           look at it. You can look purely at the specs or you can
           just pick one up and try it yourself to get a feel of what
           it's really like.  Compared to a top Viao, it's marginally
           more expensive but you get a 15.1" display, a slot load DVD,
           and some other nifty features. I don't have one myself but
           I've played around with one myself. OS is another issue. You
           don't have much of a choice here. Windows is a pile of shit
           and Mac is in the middle of a transition between 9 and X. I'm
           not too fond of OS9 myself and OS X has some serious response
           time issues.  Plus it will make that DVD somewhat useless. I'd
           wait a while and see.
           \_ The biggest OSX issue is that they built on the wrong unix!
                 I'd agree if you said FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE or 5.0-CURRENT
                 or even Solaris.
        \_ The hardware is very nice (though i've heard of some people
           having problems) and stunningly beautiful.  I think it comes
           \_ It's got the "Power" and the "Sex". It's just 1 inch thick
              and 15 inches long and has a smooth surface that will make
              you drool.
              \_ Try to avoid drooling on your Ti, it might short the
                 battery/ac switching circuit (a $138 repair, don't ask).
           down to a question of OS -- if you want/need Windows, there's
           no point.  If you don't, it going to be a great machine.
           Despite performance complaints about OS X, i'm running it on
           a B&W G3 300Mhz with 192MB RAM and it's performing just fine
           for me.  I don't use Classic though (when I need classic apps,
           i just boot into OS 9).
           \_ That's what I thought too. If you're really intent on getting
              it running you will convince yourself that it's fast enough.
              It's like the placebo - you'll get over the cold if you believe
              that the sugar pill is really a drug. But then a coworker came
              into my office and noticed how much it lagged. That's when
              reality set in for me. I'd wait a while and stick with OS 9.
           L1NSUX, esp. on a Laptop. Oh yeah, did I mention it had a working
           Apple is has some events planned in the near future -- WWDC in
           May and MacWorld in July, if you can you *may* want to hold off
           to see what they come out with.  Notwithstanding, I'm *very*
           tempted to get a PB G4, and I have a PB G3!
        \_ Basically, OS X and it's applications "are not there" yet. I'd
           wait for at least six months before fully switching to it. So,
           if you can't live with OS 9, don't buy it now ..
        \_ I have a Pismo G3 and I love the machine, but everytime I see
           Ti G4, I can't help but think how many weeks of pay I'd need to
           save up in order to get it. The thing is unbelieveable. Builtin
           10/100 Eth, Airport ready, Firewire, USB, VGA/S-Video Out, DVD,
           15.1" wide-screen, 1" thick, etc.
           Only the sony's have a comparable form-factor, but they don't
           have all of the features built-in, you need one of those ugly port
           replicators. Even then, the ethernet is usually PCMCIA, which is
           limited by the 16bit bus and usually crappy 3com ethernet chips.
           The PB G3/G4 onboard ethernet can push bits out to the tune of 5000-
           7000 K/s, much faster than most PCs. Unlike PCs the Aiport card
           has an integrate antenna, so you don't have that ugly black thing
           sticking out the side of your laptop.
           AFAIK, the only PC laptop with a 15.1" screen is a Dell and my
           boss used to have it. It weighs like 8 lbs without the DVD and is
           something like 3" thick. Its a beast to lug around. The Ti and
           even the Pismo are far superior.
           The one weakness with the Ti and the Pismo is that they use the
           ATI Rage128 8 mb vram, which isn't all that great. I'm waiting
           for Apple to release a Ti with GeForce2Go, which is supposted to
           be *much* faster and will have 16mb vram. I know that 8 mb vram
           vs 16 mb vram is irrelevant when you are running a dispay at
           1024x768 (both will do 32bit color no problem), but I'd still
           like 16 mb vram.
           With regards to OS X, its a pretty good version of UNIX, with
           a reasonably stable and full featured kernel. The VM subsystem
           could be a little bit better (a la FreeBSD 5.0-Current) and it
           would be nice if the filesystem support was a bit better (only
           UFS and HFS+ at this point), but its still *much* better than
           Linux, esp. on a Laptop. Oh yeah, did I mention it had a working
           GUI environment not some shitty POC like GNOME or KDE and it has
           a plethora of working Browsers.
           Well, that's my $0.02. You should probably take this with a grain
           of salt, as I'm a big mac fan (got my first mac in 1987 and I've
           coded pascal, fortran, matlab, c and c++ for macs).
           \_ twohey, is that you?
                 \_ no. I'm not twohey.
              \_ Twohey - he's one of those kiss up brown nosers who asks
                 a million stupid questions in class that everyone already
                 knows the answer to just to make himself look smart. I
                 remember him asking pointless questions during Franklin's
                 162 lectures. I even heard that students in his discussion
                 section started attending other sections because he and
                 his kiss up group kept inundating the TA with moronic
                 questions that the TA couldn't get anything done during class.
                 \_ He isn't very bright, no.
        \_ the only thing I find lacking with the Apple Ti Laptop is lack
           of 112bit key WEP support.  Not that this in itself is actually
           going to keep anything wireless "secure" but because some of
           the various locations in which I would use wireless are setup
           to not talk to anything that doesnt do 112bit (aka EECS wireless)
           \_ Yeah the lack of the "gold" card is annoying. Apple should
              hurry up and fix that. Rumors say that this change will roll
              out with the 802.11a update later this year.
2001/4/16-17 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:20998 Activity:insanely high
        Is this an accurate portrayal of how (incentive) stock options
        can get you screwed.  I.e.,
        (0) Your stock options are about to expire.
        (1) Your exercise price is 10 cents.
        (2) You exercise when the stock is worth $100 per share.
        (2a)You don't sell your stock, in hopes the price will shoot higher
            or you want to hold it a year for long-term cap gains
        (3) The stock falls to $1 per share.
        (4) Your tax liability is $99.90 * (# shares), regardless of
            the fact that the stock is now worth $1 per share.
        \_ The whole problem with this model is that it assumes that
           your failed to pay your taxes at the time of exercise. Now
           only a retard would do that. If you ask the broker to withhold
           40% for Fed, 10% for State and the min for ther other stuff,
           you will not get nailed on Apr 15.
           \_ Yeah right, take this advice from the motd.
           \_ I presume you "pay your taxes at the time of exercise" by
              selling enough shares at the time of exercise?
        \_ Why not sell your shares at the time you exercise your options?
           If you're not going to sell them then why exercise unless they
           are about to expire? You can always buy some back. --dim
           \_ Okay, I've amended the list.
           \_ Some people also want to utilize the lower federal tax rate of
              20% for long-term capital gain.
              \_ Okay, I've amended the list.
        \_ In what situation should the government EVER be able to tax a
           paper gain.  If I haven't made INCOME, how the HELL can this event
           be taxed with an INCOME TAX?
           be taxed with an INCOME TAX?  --scotsman
           \_ Simple. The options themselves were income. The company gave them
              to you. The value of the options is the spread at the time of
              exercise; underwater options are worthless. When you exercise,
              you're getting stock worth a certain value for less than that
              value, that's income. if they drop to 1% of that value that's
              a capital loss. There's no magic here people. If you buy stock
              that drops 99% you're fucked, welcome to the real world.
           \_ Simple.  This is unconstitutional.
           \_ It's taxed as Alternative Minimal Tax, not as Income Tax.
           \_ Damn, you made a killing by buying a $100 share for 10 cents
              and you are so greedy you want it taxed as long-term capital
              gains. You deserve what you get. I suppose if it went up to
              to $200 during the next year, you'd want all $200 taxed as
              long-term too.
              \_ Er..  No..  I want it treated as you would treat any income.
                 Paper gains are not income.  If you bought a $100 share for
                 10 cents, you didn't "make a killing."  You didn't "make"
                 anything.  You wouldn't make anything until you sold it, at
                 which point your income would be value less base cost, which
                 in this case would be the stock's worth - 10 cents.  Get a
                 fucking clue before you try to argue.  --scotsman
        \_ After a peek at form 6251, I'm truly amazed.  Stock Options
           exercised is the only item on that list that is not actual
           income, interest, or depreciation.  That's gotta be illegal.
2001/4/16-17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/TJB, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:20999 Activity:very high
4/16    Can anybody explain the things that differentiate ambiance,
        trance, jungle, trip-hop, big-beat, happy-[ trance | ambiance | ] etc?
        \_ Search on the web for samples and listen to them.  Word descriptions
           hardly tell you anything.  Groovetech, for example, archives a
           lot of their live shows, so you can also find good local DJs that
           Techno: 150-160 BPM no spoken samples, washing-machine-like
                sound, tunderous beat, little melody, if at all
           way.  Here's my list of "typical" albums for each genre:
           ambience -- Aphex Twin "selected works"
           trance -- Paul van Dyke "Tranceport"
           Drum & Bass -- Roni Size "Reprazent" (jungle is d&b x 2)
           Ambient: no beats, barely intrudes upon your consciousness
           \_ Does it have anything at all to do with BPM?
           trip-hop -- Portishead "Dummy" or any Massive Attack
           big beat -- Chemical Brothers ? "Dig Your Own Hole"
        \_ music genres are sloppy, inexact things to try to convey a
           general idea. relax and listen. --aaron
        \_ House: 130-140 BPM, bass drums, high-hat, divas, lots of sex
           Techno: no spoken samples, washing-machine-like sound, tunderous
                beat, little melody, if at all
           Trance: beats, melody, emotionally rich. Became popular much later
                than house or techno, ~1995
           Breaks: based on a break-beat, sounds like house in other ways
           Jungle: deep, dark breaks with lots of bass
           \_ tjb?
              \_ No, I think this guy actually sounds like he knows what he's
                 talking about.  Besides -- tjb doesn't have a soda account
                 \_ anymore? -geordan
                    \_ yeah -- didn't he have some sort of big deal awhile ago
                       about his soda account and ended up sending an
                       entertainingly inflammatory spam-mail to the entire
                       csua community or something?
                       \_ he has never had an account on soda to my
                          knowledge, and I see no Trevor Buckinghams in
                          /etc/passwd. -geordan
                          \_ huh.  what was the "I'm sorry that you..."
                             all about then?  wasn't he wanting to have
                             his account moved or renamed or something?
                --not tjb
2001/4/16 [Computer/Rants] UID:21000 Activity:nil
4/16    Is this real?
2001/4/16 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:21001 Activity:nil
4/16    Games dot com is a luz3r company. Those who joined and stayed till
        now, are the stupidest of all.                  <DEAD><DEAD>
        \_ That's pretty danged stupid! -redneck
2001/4/16-17 [Reference/Military] UID:21002 Activity:very high
4/16    What's up with the British and samurai sword attacks?
        Guns, knives, cars, clubs, crowbars, beer bottles and many other
        things I can understand.  Samurai swords?
        \_ guns are illegal in britain.  you make do with what you have.
        Guns, knives, cars, clubs, crowbars, beer bottles and many other
        things I can understand.  Samurai swords?
        \_ A properly used katana is more deadly than a knife, a club,
           a crowbar, or a beer bottle.  All the Hollywood bullshit aside.
        \_ Which would you rather have, a bottle or a 3' long razor blade?
              \_ Neither. I prefer my MAC 10.
                 \_ And I'd prefer to ram my m-16 up your ass.
              \_ How to english syntax grammar?
                 \_ Everything is correct, merely a colloquial use of the verb
                    'to chill.'
                    \_ not everything is correct.  "Sword" should be "swords" in
                       the first sentence.
                       \_ You are right, sorry.
           \_ Some of the samurai swords I saw in Japan were indeed as sharp
              as razor blades.  Merely looking at them made me chill.
2001/4/16-17 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:21003 Activity:high
4/16    I have a bunch of ^M s from mac files i transfered over. I'm
        sure there is a quick and easy way to remove them all, but i
        don't know how to specify cntrl characters in my script.
        Someone please point the way.
        \_ Does vi's :1,$s/<ctr-v><ctr-m>// work?  I think emacs also
           has a remove trailing  function.
                \_ Are you really helping by giving it away?  He was 99% of
                   the way there.
        \_ man tr.  Or do a search/replace in your favorite editor.
               \_ For the hopelessly lazy: tr -d '\015' < file > newfile
           \_ yes fine, i could come up with "do a search/replace" myself
                the problem is that i don't know how to write ^M so that
                my editor can read and match. it.  How about i make this
                specific:  perl -pi -e 's/^M/ /g' FILES doesn't work. What
                do i need to type instead of "^M" or actually pressing the
                CNTRL and the M key together, so that i can match this char.
                Does anyone know what the ascii (alt+3) number is for this
                character or where i can find that?
                \_ Heh... guess what?  "man ascii".  "But if you teach a man
                   to fish...."
              \_ perl -pi -e 's/\r\n?/\n/' FILES
                 this will work for both Mac & DOS formatted files --dbushong
                 \_ Didn't you answer this question like 47 times before?
        \_ How many times has this been asked on the motd before?
        \_ just ftp your files over in ASCII mode
2001/4/16-17 [Computer/HW/Display] UID:21004 Activity:moderate
4/16    I have a question abous video cards.  If I don't play games at all
        but mainly use my laptop for Photoshop, will GeForce2Go be much
        better than ATI Rage128?  What if I also do some animation/movie
        editing?  What is the strength of GeForce2G0 over ATI Rage128?
        \_ I'd go for the ATI for sure. It has much better video capabilities
           Watching an mpeg1 file on an ATI card offers much greater image
           quality than anything else I've seen
        \_ How much you willing to spend? Cuz you should consider GeForce 2
           vs. ATI Radeon. You can get a GeForce2 MX card for under $100. Oh,
           and I believe ATI has superior movie handling. I could be wrong.
        \_ ATI makes better general use cards.  GF2 is a much better 3d gaming
           card.  If you'll *never* play a game, get the ATI.  If you get the
           ATI, you'll *never* play a game....
           \_ I have video chips for laptops in mind.
        \_ I haven't seen anything that would make the old rage 128 better in
           anything. It has half the vram (geforce actually goes up to 32) and
           has basically useless 3D. and the gforce2 has the mpeg dvd stuff too.
           for animation and photoshop, well probably doesn't really matter
           much as long as you have enough vram for your resolution (fixed on
           the flat panel anyway) so i wouldn't worry. but then, there are
           other pc choices besides that toshiba.
           i just priced out a $2500 dell with 32 mb vram, all the stuff,
           256 mb ram, and 1600x1200 resolution. they announced today they
           are offering geforce2 also.
           so here's the one to get: dell inspiron 8000 900mhz, cdrw/dvd combo
           drv, 256 mb ram, geforce2go 32MB DDR SDRAM, 15" "ultra xga",
           integrated modem/lan, firewire, 20 gb hdd, blah blah $3000.
           apple can't touch that with a 10 foot stick.
2001/4/16-17 [Uncategorized] UID:21005 Activity:high 54%like:21023
4/16    infoP on nweaver's technical talk tomorrow, thanks.     -junior
        \_ Why not just read the abstract:
2018/11/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:April:16 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>