Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:February:22 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2001/2/22 [Uncategorized] UID:20642 Activity:nil
2/21    What's hoserchat and why are so many CSUAers using it?
        \_ run ~brg/bin/hoserchat and you'll see.
2001/2/22 [Science/Battery] UID:20643 Activity:nil
2/21    Someone must have wanted to do this before me:
        I'm going on a week long backpacking trip.  I want to take my digital
        video camera with me and do a lot of filming.  I could buy a BUNCH of
        batteries but i'd prefer to bring along my charger and rig some sort
        of a micro-generator. (something lighter than a car battery).  Ideas?
        \_ Blair Witch 3?
        \_ hrmm... I think I've seen like Brookstone or Skymall or something
           have hand-powered battery rechargers for everything from rechargeable
           niCad AA batts to most cell phone types.  I've also seen crank type
           generators for flashlights at sharper image if you want to do some
        \_ Will professional battery packs sold e.g. at solve
           ypur problem?
           \_  -brain
        \_ Any solar rechargers?
2001/2/22 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:20644 Activity:nil
2/21    Using Fsecure's (ssh v2.0.13) i attempted to do a vary large scp -r
        wich began fine and copied about 223 megs of files before it hung and
        is not doing anything. On two other machines i got about 13 (of a
        planned 70) megs worth of files transferred before it stopped and hung
        there.  Has anyone experienced anything like this?  What is going on?
        What should I do?
        \_ Use OpenSSH. I copy gigs (cd images) with it and have had no problem.
            \_ thanks, but i already had an rsync binary for these systems and
               i just popped that on there and ran it over ssh and all was well.
2001/2/22 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:20645 Activity:nil
2/21    Why does it seem to me that all text files that come to me from
        emacs users use spaces in place of tabs in many places. This is really
        annoying. Does emacs replace spaces with tabs or what? -vim user
        \_ You can fix it with "unexpand -a".
        \_ this can be toggled on or off.  personally I prefer spaces to tabs,
           especially in multi-user environments where people use different
           tab settings.
                \_ Like the motd?
2001/2/22 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:20646 Activity:nil
2/20    How come we are still running OpenSSH 2.3.0? Shouldn't
        we upgrade to the newer 2.5.1?
        Also I've read up on that IDEA cypher that tom keeps asking
        for, it turns out that IDEA is deliberately ommited from
        OpenSSh because there is a big security whole associated
        with it. I'm not sure why he wants it anyway, as the other
        supported methods are much better.
         \_ Let me try to explain this one more time.  We have a choice of
            using a server which will support whatever client one of our
            users is using, with whatever configuration they want to use.
            Or we can use OpenSSH.  No one has put forth a reason why
            OpenSSH is even theoretically better.  So why are we running it?
                \_ Because it's open and open is kewl.  Ride bike!
            \_ OpenSSH is as good as FSecure in terms of protocol support
               and because its auditing practices are like OpenBSD it is
               proactively secure. Who knows what buffer overflows are in
               the commerical closed source alternatives. Besides, Tatu
               is a much more immature punk than Theo de Raat.
                \_ OpenSSH is absolutely not as good as FSecure in terms of
                   protocol support.  OpenSSH does not support session
                   re-keying, which is a required part of the ssh2 protocol.
                   The ssh server from also supports this, and
                   is, of course, open source.  -tom
                   \_ Okay explain to me why you need session re-keying.
                      And Tatu's ssh from may be "open source",
                      but there are serious restrictions on who can and
                      cannot use it. OpenSSH has no restrictions.
                        \_ I need session re-keying because IT IS A
                           REQUIREMENT OF THE PROTOCOL and therefore
                           WHEN CONNECTED TO OPENSSH SERVERS.  How many
                           times does this need to be explained?  -tom
                           \_ Whatever. What is re-keying anyway?
                              What does it do and why is it needed
                              by the protocol? I mean SSH v2 seems
                              to work find without it when using
                              OpenSSH. Are you just being ANAL again?
                                \_ Leave your ssh2 client idle for an hour or
                                   so when connected to an openssh server.
                                   It will freeze eventually and that makes
                                   SSH2 protocol support in OpenSSH useless for
                                   people who need it.
        \_ The fact that openssh does not support rekeying made its
           ssh2 protocol support nearly useless. Has this been fixed in 2.5.1?
           \_ Just short by one feature.  No big deal.
              \_ This is a big deal for sites that need a working ssh2
                 protocol support
                 \_ soda doesn't need ssh2.
        \_ fsecure ssh 2.3 and earlier have a flaw in their HMAC code.
           this is documented along with the openssh lack of rekeying:
2001/2/22-23 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:20647 Activity:insanely high
2/22    Come on.  How hard could it be for some X savy Gnome lover out there
        to script up a "minimize all"?  It was the best think about windows
        98 and after 3 years i can't find it for my linux box (i've searched
        a little but not a huge amount so point the way if i just missed it).
        \_ use win98 then, foo.
        \_ Serves you right for using a shitty window manager with a shitty
           OS. Personally, I use TWM or a toned down afterstep. GUIs are for
           little boys.
           \_ TWM is not a GUI?
           \_ Yes!  A fellow twm user!
           \_ who besides programmers and sysadmins do you really think
              uses a command line interface anymore?
               \_ People who want to get work done and not play with themselves
                  all day changing "themes"?  Oh wait, you're a linux user,
                  \_ he said as much.
                  \_ he said as much: "my linSUX box"
                  work where you do -Sys. Admin.
                      \_ hey Dummy, "He" wasn't The Original Poster.
                         (and i knew this thread was likely to jump-start
                          the then fresh motd, but this is more than i had
                          hoped for) -TOP
               \_ programmers know how to use a command line?  Boy I'd like to
                  work where you do -Sys. Admin. (TOP2)
                  \_ i wasn't trying to make some coder v.s. sysadmin point,
                     i am neither.  I use NT because the comercial software
                     that does what I need that is easy to use is written for
                     nt.  I think most artists and writers use macos,
                     and most non-computer related engineers use NT,
                     \_ Uh, no. As an electrical engineer and ASIC
                        designer, you don't use NT. All useful CAD
                        tools are written either for Solaris or HPUX
                        (and in some cases Linux). You won't find
                        Synopshit or Cadence tools for NT (at least none
                        worth using). As for advanced civil, aerospace,
                        geological, or automotive engineering they rely
                        on IRIX machines to do any relevant work. Lets
                        see you do complex fluid dynamics simulation on
                        your NT box. Only E28 AutoCAD weenies use NT.
                     and you're average home user is  on 98 or 2000.
                     I'm not saying this a s a holy war starter, just an
                     observation.  all  99% of users out in userland care about
                     is ease of use, number of useful software products,
                     and convenience for getting on the web, and that's it!
                        \_ Not sure what software you are talking about,
                           but I find NT to be a POS for anything remotely
                           network related. No inetd, no named, a shitty
                           web/ftp server, crappy userland (MKS and UWIN
                           and CygWin suck), no rcp, ssh barely works,
                           no nfs, no appleshare, crappy browsers, broken
                           ping and traceroute, shitty version of telnet,
                           crappy kernel threads. I could go on, but you
                           probably don't care because you can get 30 FPS
                           in Q3A in NT and that's all you care about in
                             word workds?  I really am curious.
                           an OS.
                           Even LinSUX is better than NT.
                           \_  look.  try to imagine that you are a mechanical
                             engineer who designes jet ingines for boeing or
                             something.  All you need to do is use AutoCAD to
                             make drawings and matlab to do simulations and
                             calculations.  that's all.  anything else you
                             do at work is either offline, like talking to
                             co-workers and doing pencil and paper calculations
                             or is essentially time-wasting, like surfing the
                             web or fiddling wiht your screensaver.  why do
                             you care what OS is running autoCAd and matlab,
                             as long as they work? or tell me whay a writer
                             who never typesets anything but text, and makes
                             regular backups to zip, cd and hardcopy from word
                             which she runs on macOS gives a damn as long as
              viewed with lynx.
                             word works?  I really am curious.
                             \_ I stuided ME, so don't give me this shit.
                                My dad has been a practicing ME (with a PE)
                                for 30+ yrs and designed stuff for the
                                Space Shuttle. They totally care what OS
                                they are running. Try doing a complex
                                Finite Element analysis or stress anaylsis
                                on a WinNT box (even a 4 way Xenon) and
                                you will be sitting there all week praying
                                that it doesn't crash half way through.
                                You need a real computer with a real
                                OS to do this sort of work. Prefered
                                OS are Solaris and IRIX on Origin 2ks.
                                The same is true of almost any kind of
                                numerical analysis that MatLab is used
                                for. I worked on airframes for SST prototypes
                                and no NT machine could crunch our data
                                in MatLab within a acceptable period of
                                time (two days) and an acceptable level
                                of accuracy (it screws up on x86, but not
                                on Sparc or MIPS).
                                BTW, I've also written books and you are
                                right about MacOS. I wouldn't use anything
                                else for writing (I tried Windows and LinSUX).
                                I like MacOS, I can open up a few SSH terms
                                and work on REAL computers, whilst retaining
                                a reasonably friendly GUI environment.
                                Windows can't even do that.
                                \_ OK, ME was a bad example, and i hereby
                                admit to talking out of my ass about what
                                a mechanical engineer actually uses in
                                aerospace, but I think the point still
                                holds for a large number of profesions.  for
                                *any* profession, you care about what is
                                available to do your job, not os holy wars.
                                if the best hardware platform for you simulations
                                were a cluster of apple IIgs's networked with
                                OS/2, I claim that's what you would use, even
                                if you hate IBM and apple and have some silly
                                quarel with the individual programmers involved
                                in writing the os.  as far as i can tell, most
                                of the linux vs *bsd vs solaris dispute is
                                a matter of issues that are largely personal.
                                \_ for most people who run it at home, its
                                   a matter of taste. I prefer *BSD and Solaris
                                   because they seem "professional".
                                   LinSUX still seems like a toy.
                     \_ sun almost everyone is cli. Used to work at cisco,
                       it was 75% there.
                  \_ I love it when sys admins get a fat head and start
                     acting superior.  It's really cute.  Maybe you should
                     research the companies or positions you're interested
                     in before applying, bonehead.
                     \_ I've found most coders know how to use a command line
                        just enough to cause themselves trouble.  I prefer my
                        current job where the coders don't pretend to know
                        anything outside their c/c++/java/whatever.  The
                        smartest people are the ones who know their limits.
                          --not the same sysadmin as above
                          \_ Hmm.  Maybe I'm very fortunate then -- most of
                             coders I work with are pretty command-line
                             savvy.  <shrug>
           \_ You are a dumbass.  My porn and my stock charts look crappy when
              viewed with lynx.  -TOP
                \_ But dude, there's all sorts of kewl ascii porn out there
                   and the stocks are just numbers and symbols.  WTF is wrong
                   with lynx for that?  You need a gui to see your stocks drop?
                   \_ soda [~] % locate squick.vt
        \_ Minimize all is a major factor for you?  Dude.  You suck.
           \_ So when another OS or GUI has it, it isn't an important feature
              but when your religion has a feature someone else doesn't have,
              then it's a critical issue?  RIDE BIKE!  USE LINUX!  KNOW GNOME!
                                              \_ GROW UP!
              \_ That's my point idiot.  Being religiously dependant on such
                 stupid crap is...well...stupid.  You suck even more for
                 making it a religious issue.
2001/2/22-23 [Politics] UID:20648 Activity:kinda low
2/22    Spring cleaning!!!
        \_ i thought spring's not until march 20.
        \_ fascist bastard. - Rik
           \_ It's not fascism, it's the magic of the market.
2001/2/22-23 [Reference/Religion] UID:20649 Activity:moderate
        I'm speechless.  Just...speechless.
        \_ I dunno what to say except... why hasn't Darwinism eliminated
           such people yet?!?
        \_ the more I read the less I could believe it...
        \_ Brrrr.
        \_ How many kids do you think this guy has molested?
        \_ Did you see the counter at the bottom of the peter-pan site?
           over 240,000 people have seen that man's face.
           That's about a quarter million; just reading about THAT guy.  wow.
           What a fruitcake.  I think he needs a guinea worm.
2001/2/22-23 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:20650 Activity:high
2/22    Is there any advantage of tcsh over bash? I've always used tcsh for
        my shell and sh for programming. I'm wondering if tcsh has anything
        (other than automatically setting $REMOTEHOST) that bash doesn't.
        \_ one thing I like about tcsh that bash doesn't have is you can hit
          ^D on an attempted file complete, and it will list possible
          completions.  Pretty useful if you dont remember the exact file name
          and dont want to have to abort and retype a commandline just to
          do a 'ls'. (well this isn't a default bash option, it may exist,
          I just find it easier to 'exec tcsh' than 'man bash') -ERic
          \_ in bash, you hit tab twice.  $ ls foo^I^I[expansion list returned]
             but you can get this particular interface in tcsh as well.  I
             imagine it's a holdover from csh filec. --jon
             \_ If you put "set show-all-if-ambiguous on" in .inputrc you will
                need to hit tab only once in most cases.
        \_ tcsh has a convenient %~ option for the prompt.  Does bash have
           a similarly simple counterpart?
           \_ what does the '%~' option do?
              \_ it prints your current working directory with respect to
                 your home directory (e.g.: ~user/somedir).  man tcsh
                 \_ Of course bash can do silly things like that. You can
                    put about anything in your prompt. man bash
                    \_ I did man bash and didn't see anything about this.  Is
                       there way to do it that is as simple as in tcsh?  And
                       as far as "silly things" goes, realistically, I think
                       that as far as important (ie, "non-silly") features go,
                       bash/tcsh/ksh are about the same, so it's the little
                       things that make the difference.
                       \_ PS1="\u@\h:\w\\$ "
                          \_ this only works for directories off of your own
                             home dir, not off of other users'.
                 \_ okay. I use ksh, I'd use bourne shell if I could hack
                    in filec and arrow keys for history. This sort of
                    stuff is frivolous.
        \_ Use zsh.  The best of both worlds.  (In fact, all most all of both
           \_ /sbin/sh is the STANDARD shell! Real men know how to type and
              don't need fancy line editing. Use Bourne Shell as God and Steve
              Steve intended. Though Korn Shell is the spawn of the Devil and
              David Korn, its use can be tolerated on systems with clueless
              admins who think that /bin/csh (Bill must have been intoxicated
              or stoned when he wrote this) is the best thing since DECNET
              and LAT came out.
                \_ LAT! LAT is the STANDARD protocol!
2001/2/22-23 [Uncategorized] UID:20651 Activity:low
2/22    So, what's this wall thing?
        \_ Do a "wall y" at your prompt to find out.
           \_ not many new users use wall.  it has been depricated.
2001/2/22-23 [Computer/HW/Display, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:20652 Activity:moderate
2/22    Go watch the streaming video presentation of GeForce3 / Doom3. You'll
        be impressed (oh wait, this is the CSUA i'm talking to here... n/m)
        \_ For only $600 too. Why bother paying rent when you can get a
              \_ I'm still waiting for nVida to release the mac rom flasher
                 for the 2MX card. I'm stuck with a Rage 128 Pro (?) and I
                 really want a card with better 2D. Raedon is waaaay to
                 expensive and the performance is not that much beter than
                 the 128. The 2MX seems like a great card: low price plus
                 good 2D.
                 \_ 2d?  Any card can do 2d perfectly fine today.  2d is a
                    done deal.  No one buys a new video card for 2d.  Any
                    video card built in the last 18 months has 2d performance
                    way beyond anything you'll ever need.
                    \_ Actually the Rage 128 Pro is pretty bad at 2D. It
                       has a lot of visual artifacts that are simply annoying.
                       The 2MX is *much* better. I'm unhappy with the 128
                       because ATI's XClaim 3D VR Plus didn't have these
                       problems. I was thinking about a Voodoo3, but 3DFX died.
                       Oh well. - still waiting for a 2MX.
           \_ A year after release it'll be $125 and headed into the "value
              oriented customer" bin for you cheapos.  Doom 3 with be on one
              of those $2 CD's at the "old news/impulse buy" software section
              at the check out line at Fry's.  The MX2 card I have now would
              have blown your shoes, shocks, and pants right off only 2 years
              ago.  Today it's a $99 card.  It's all just a penis thing.
              \_ No, it's all just an evolution of technology thing
                 \_ A $600 game card is a penis thing.
              \_ don't mistaken value oriented with "cheapos".  If you don't
                care about paying too much for something's real worth that only
                makes you an idiot.
                \_ Value oriented = cheapos.  It's a market definition.  I
                   didn't make it up.  Go read Intel or anyone else's maps
                   for their future lineup.  "Value Oriented" is always the
                   bottom end system suitable for maybe running tetris.  This
                   is known as a "euphemism".  As a Berkeley student or alum,
                   you should know all about using nice sounding words to make
                   lesser people feel better.  You're not cheap.  You're a
                   Value Oriented customer.  BTW, can I still use the word,
                   "oriented" without offending the Asian-Americans that read
                   the motd?
                   \_ Value oriented != cheapos. Some people just don't need
                      64MB of VRAM. I don't play many games, and the ones that
                      I do play (old LucasArts games, super puzzle fighter,
                      Gran Turismo) don't require a $600 video card. The 8 MB
                      Rage 128 that I have does just fine.
                      Most of the time I have a browser and a couple of
                      terminals open. That is all I need to do my work (writing
                      protocols and such). Occasionally I need to use Word.
                      The browser, word, terminals look fine even with 4 MB of
                      video ram.
                      I just don't need to spend $600 for "top of the line".
                      There are a lot of people like me.
                      \_ Yeah, and thank god I'm not one of them.  You guys
                      a are lame and boring.
                      \_ You are posting this from work because people like
                         me wrote the routing and switching protocols that
                         let your crappy little PEECEE participate on the
                         internet. Its comments like this that make some
                         people wonder if we should just keep all the packets
                         to ourselves.
                         \_ Yeah. They should have the OS automatically
                            mark the "This computer has a bad ass graphics
                            card" flag in every IP packet it sends out so
                            that the routers can automatically adjust the
                            QoS of traffic originating from no-life gamers.
                            \_ Well, you've got to use the TOS bits for
                               something. ;-) (And in case you didn't get
                               it, I was joking about keeping packets to
        \_ urlP
           \_ There are a couple of links on
2019/01/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:February:22 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>